The 'two founding races', the 'four founding churches', and our place in Canada

[Machjo]

With the new revelations about more experiments at the residential schools recently, with continued underfunding of indigenous schools in Canada still today, essentially a continued attempt at the cultural genocide of indigenous peoples, I was wondering, what is our place in Canada?

I myself am a member of the so-called two founding races (French Canadian on my mother's side, English Canadian on my father's), and was raised in one of the 'four founding churches' (Catholic, the other three for those who aren't as familiar with the residential school system being the Anglican, Presbyterian, and United Churches). Yet with all of this, I can't remember ever learning about the residential school system in school. I can't remember it ever even being mentioned the whole time I was raised Catholic. Why is that?

Though I no longer profess the Christian Faith (actually, I never really did), I still respect the teachings of the Gospels. But where are these teachings practiced besides on an individual basis among individuals? Where is it being practiced in our institutions?

Many indigenous peoples today are suffering from PTSD or intergenerational PTSD as a result of the residential school system, as witness alcohol and drug dependency, violence on reserves, high suicide rates, and the list goes on. Their population was purposely decimated and then much more than that over the centuries, and they continue to be marginalized. We have inherited so much materially from this, yet have destroyed our nation spiritually in the process.

When are we, the member of the 'two founding races', and the members of the 'four founding churches', prepared to sacrifice our unjustly acquired privileges for the sake of justice. As Jesus says:

3 ¶ Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 ¶ Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 ¶ Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 ¶ Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 ¶ Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 ¶ Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 ¶ Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 ¶ Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 ¶ Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Again he says:

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:
For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

In all of this, he asks for sacrifice, yet all we can concern ourselves with is maintaining our ill-gotten privileges, whether in the form of language rights, the separate school system, etc.

We continue to look down on indigenous peoples as drunken Indians and other such stereotypes, continue to block UN investigators from entering Canada to inquire on the situation on reserves, and the list goes on.

Why are we so intent on holding on to our privileges when we know the blood that was shed for this (in the residential schools alone, 50,000 dead under their care is now considered a highly conservative estimate, and it was not ancient history; people alive today witnesses of these murders).

What will it take?

 

[captain morgan]

What will it take?

I'm guessing some kind of voucher-system

 

[gerryh]

With the new revelations about more experiments at the residential schools recently, with continued underfunding of indigenous schools in Canada still today, essentially a continued attempt at the cultural genocide of indigenous peoples, I was wondering, what is our place in Canada?

I myself am a member of the so-called two founding races (French Canadian on my mother's side, English Canadian on my father's), and was raised in one of the 'four founding churches' (Catholic, the other three for those who aren't as familiar with the residential school system being the Anglican, Presbyterian, and United Churches). Yet with all of this, I can't remember ever learning about the residential school system in school. I can't remember it ever even being mentioned the whole time I was raised Catholic. Why is that?

Though I no longer profess the Christian Faith (actually, I never really did), I still respect the teachings of the Gospels. But where are these teachings practiced besides on an individual basis among individuals? Where is it being practiced in our institutions?

Many indigenous peoples today are suffering from PTSD or intergenerational PTSD as a result of the residential school system, as witness alcohol and drug dependency, violence on reserves, high suicide rates, and the list goes on. Their population was purposely decimated and then much more than that over the centuries, and they continue to be marginalized. We have inherited so much materially from this, yet have destroyed our nation spiritually in the process.

When are we, the member of the 'two founding races', and the members of the 'four founding churches', prepared to sacrifice our unjustly acquired privileges for the sake of justice. As Jesus says:

3 ¶ Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 ¶ Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 ¶ Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 ¶ Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 ¶ Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 ¶ Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 ¶ Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 ¶ Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 ¶ Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Again he says:

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:
For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

In all of this, he asks for sacrifice, yet all we can concern ourselves with is maintaining our ill-gotten privileges, whether in the form of language rights, the separate school system, etc.

We continue to look down on indigenous peoples as drunken Indians and other such stereotypes, continue to block UN investigators from entering Canada to inquire on the situation on reserves, and the list goes on.

Why are we so intent on holding on to our privileges when we know the blood that was shed for this (in the residential schools alone, 50,000 dead under their care is now considered a highly conservative estimate, and it was not ancient history; people alive today witnesses of these murders).

What will it take?

Hypocrite


You do not profess the Christian faith and even say that you never have, yet you are here quoting scripture and the Lords Prayer. Hypocrite.

I'm guessing some kind of voucher-system

Well of course, vouchers solve everything.

 

[Machjo]

I'm guessing some kind of voucher-system

How so?

A voucher system could probably solve some very superficial parts of the problem. But there is far more to it than that. Lack of funding for education on reserves. The Indian Act. The Official Languages Act which clearly discriminates in favour of the 'two founding races', respect for land claims, ensuring the habitability of the environment I which indigenous peoples live, providing adequate funding for treatment programmes for indigenous peoples suffering from PTSD and everything that follows from that such as drugs, alcohol, early pregnancy, high suicide rates, etc.

Also, the Report of the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism, on which the modern Canadian identity was established, had no indigenous representation and even went so far as to explicitly exclude them from consideration in its recommendations. So even the modern Canadian identity explicitly excludes indigenous contributions! Sure we have a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, but even its mandate is circumscribed quite tightly so as to not ruffle too many feathers among the dominant groups.

And there are still indigenous people today fighting to have their siblings buried who knows where brought back home from the residential schools.

So it would seem to me that vouchers, while being able to possibly solve part of the problem, would be the tip of the ice-berg, not to mention that a proper royal commission on this could possibly present even better options.

 

[L Gilbert]

So what are you, gerry, when you quote a book you don't follow? Ever quoted the Quran, for instance? What if Jesus came back and quoted Tolkien's Lord of the Rings? I don't follow football so I'm a hypocrite if I quote a football coach or football rules? That's f'n hilarious.

 

[Machjo]

Hypocrite


You do not profess the Christian faith and even say that you never have, yet you are here quoting scripture and the Lords Prayer. Hypocrite.

How am I a hypocrite? Do you profess the Jewish Faith? If not, would it be reasonable to say you cannot quote the Old Testament without being a hypocrite? Muslims believe in the Gospel too, yet do not profess the Christian Faith. So do Baha'is. If others cannot quote the Gospels, then I guess Christians cannot quote the Old Testament either. Equally ridiculous. Besides, if you profess the Christian Faith, one would think you'd be happy that we non-Christians are helping to spread it for you, no?

Also, it's odd within the context of this thread when one considers the role the four churches played in the residential school system as part of a systematic process of attempted cultural genocide, all in the name of the said Gospels.

 

[captain morgan]

How so?

It's the wave of the future, dontcha know... We can have race vouchers, education vouchers and even PTSD vouchers... And my voucher system covers everyone equally - all races, all cultures and both genders (PS - we can have a voucher system for transgender to if you like).

In fact, I am feeling PTSDish right now... A voucher would come in really handy.

 

[L Gilbert]

It's the wave of the future, dontcha know... We can have race vouchers, education vouchers and even PTSD vouchers... And my voucher system covers everyone equally - all races, all cultures and both genders (PS - we can have a voucher system for transgender to if you like).

In fact, I am feeling PTSDish right now... A voucher would come in really handy.

Have a beer.

 

[Machjo]

It's the wave of the future, dontcha know... We can have race vouchers, education vouchers and even PTSD vouchers... And my voucher system covers everyone equally - all races, all cultures and both genders (PS - we can have a voucher system for transgender to if you like).

In fact, I am feeling PTSDish right now... A voucher would come in really handy.

Ridiculous.

 

[gerryh]

How am I a hypocrite? Do you profess the Jewish Faith? If not, would it be reasonable to say you cannot quote the Old Testament without being a hypocrite? Muslims believe in the Gospel too, yet do not profess the Christian Faith. So do Baha'is. If others cannot quote the Gospels, then I guess Christians cannot quote the Old Testament either. Equally ridiculous. Besides, if you profess the Christian Faith, one would think you'd be happy that we non-Christians are helping to spread it for you, no?

I don't quote the OT

Also, it's odd within the context of this thread when one considers the role the four churches played in the residential school system as part of a systematic process of attempted cultural genocide, all in the name of the said Gospels.

So now you are BLAMING the gospels for the residential schools. On the one hand you quote them, as if they mean something to you, in support of change and on the other hand you blame them.

Make up your mind machjo.

 

[captain morgan]

How am I a hypocrite?

Lemme ask you: Is the government of Canada a formal extension of the Catholic Church or any other form of Christianity?

If not, what the f*ck does quoting biblical references have anything to do with this?

 

[Machjo]

But Gerryh and Capt. Morgan, since you're in a giddy humorous mood today, how about this:

A special status for the Catholic Church in the Constitution is the cat's meow. Besides, think of the hard work that was done in exterminating all those Indians to gain this constitutional privilege. To think that you could lose that privilege after all that would make all of that genocidal work all for nothing. We might as well honour all those Indians buried at the back of those schools with a good old privilege in the Constitution, eh.

 

[gerryh]

But Gerryh and Capt. Morgan, since you're in a giddy humorous mood today, how about this:

A special status for the Catholic Church in the Constitution is the cat's meow. Besides, think of the hard work that was done in exterminating all those Indians to gain this constitutional privilege. To think that you could lose that privilege after all that would make all of that genocidal work all for nothing. We might as well honour all those Indians buried at the back of those schools with a good old privilege in the Constitution, eh.

I'd say that the "Church" and the "Government" did a pretty piss poor job of genocide since there are so many ndn's still around.

 

[Machjo]

Lemme ask you: Is the government of Canada a formal extension of the Catholic Church or any other form of Christianity?

If not, what the f*ck does quoting biblical references have anything to do with this?

The point of quoting the Bible passages is to show just how far the four founding churches have strayed in participating in the residential school system and then trying to cover it up. The Truth and Reconciliation commission is still trying to pull teeth to get to all the information the four founding churches may have locked up somewhere, assuming they haven't destroyed it of course. I wanted to clarify that my criticism of the participation of the four founding churches in the residential school system is in no way a reflection of the Gospels which they profess with their lips.

I'd say that the "Church" and the "Government" did a pretty piss poor job of genocide since there are so many ndn's still around.

There were many to kill. They just didn't quite get around to them all. But as for the remainder, their communities have a hell of a lot of healing to do, even today.

 

[captain morgan]

Have a beer.

It's not the same unless there is a voucher... Just isn't

PS - Don't tell no one, but I am having a beer this very moment

 

[gerryh]

A special status for the Catholic Church in the Constitution is the cat's meow.

and yes, I am VERY happy that I was able to send my last 2 kids to a school that had teachers that knew what they were doing and I didn't have to pay extra for them to go there.

 

[captain morgan]

A special status for the Catholic Church in the Constitution is the cat's meow.

Tough sh*t... Get over it

Besides, think of the hard work that was done in exterminating all those Indians to gain this constitutional privilege.

Exterminating, eh?... Seems to me like whoever was in charge did one helluva sh*tty job.... It's probably cause they hadn't come up with a genocide voucher system yet

We might as well honour all those Indians buried at the back of those schools with a good old privilege in the Constitution, eh.

You would do society a huge favour if you would simply identify those locations and prove your points... No doubt that all participating religions would be run out of town on a rail and then you could safely live in your voucher utopia

 

[Machjo]

You sound disappointed about their piss poor job.

For those who deny the residential school system, read up on Kevin Annett:

Hidden from History: The Canadian Holocaust

He is an ex-minister of the United Church who was defrocked when he started to expose more recent crimes of the United Church and eventually even got kicked out of the Church. But make no mistake about it, he's just as critical of all of the four founding churches and the government of Canada.

 

[captain morgan]

You sound disappointed about their piss poor job.

I guess that all but you understand that my posts are written tongue-in-cheek.

The only disappointing thing here is your myopic and uni-dimensional view of the world.

 

[Machjo]

Tough sh*t... Get over it

Hmmm... I guess genocide was a small price to pay for that privilege. Am I supposed to say 'Amen' to that?

Exterminating, eh?... Seems to me like whoever was in charge did one helluva sh*tty job.... It's probably cause they hadn't come up with a genocide voucher system yet

You sound like a holocaust denier. A hell of a lot of indigenous people were killed. Heck, there were still Jews left in Germany after WWII. Does that mean the Nazi holocaust never occurred?

You would do society a huge favour if you would simply identify those locations and prove your points... No doubt that all participating religions would be run out of town on a rail and then you could safely live in your voucher utopia

Don't confuse the four founding churches with all religions. IN fact, many Christian churches never participated in the residential school system. You don't even have to look outside the Christian Faith to find religious communities that did not participate.

And even within the four founding churches, many sincere members have likely never even heard of the residential school system, very much like many German officers after WWII were themselves shocked to learn of the Nazi death camps.

This is not about individuals, but about the four founding churches at the institutional level. If they have money for expensive law suits, then they have money to help rebuild indigenous cultures, and actually put the teachings of the Gospel into practice?

I guess that all but you understand that my posts are written tongue-in-cheek.

The only disappointing thing here is your myopic and uni-dimensional view of the world.

If it's so myopic, then certainly you could come up with a brilliant defence of holding on to privileges gained by colonialism and attempted genocide, no?

I don't quote the OT

Bizarre, that. Jesus himself quoted them. Do you have something against the OT?

So now you are BLAMING the gospels for the residential schools. On the one hand you quote them, as if they mean something to you, in support of change and on the other hand you blame them.

Make up your mind machjo.[/QUOTE]

No contradiction at all. You're confusing the Gospels with the four founding churches. Big difference. The reason I quoted the Gospels was precisely our of respect for the Gospels so as to show that they are not to blame for this attempted cultural genocide.