Protest in Iran


Corduroy
+1
#1
Quote:

Thousands of opposition supporters have clashed with security forces in the centre of the Iranian capital, Tehran.
Police used tear gas and detained dozens rallying in solidarity with uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia. There was one report of a death in Tehran.

The BBC also received reports of similar protests being held in the cities of Isfahan, Mashhad and Shiraz.

Earlier, the police placed opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi under house arrest, according to his website.

It said the move was intended to prevent the former prime minister attending the march in Tehran, which the authorities had prohibited. The road leading to Mr Mousavi's house was also blocked by police vans.

Fellow opposition leader Mehdi Karroubi, a former speaker of parliament and a senior cleric, is also reportedly under de facto house arrest.


[...]


In their first major show of dissent since Ashura in December 2009, when eight people were killed, thousands of opposition supporters defied the government ban and gathered at Tehran's Azadi Square on Monday, chanting, "Death to dictators".

Riot police and plain-clothes police backed by the elite Republican Guard used tear gas to disperse the protesters, he adds.
Police also fired paintball guns at the demonstrators and beat some with batons.

The fiercest clashes were reported on Azerbaijan Street, close to Azadi Square, and a number of ambulances were seen coming and going. Witnesses told the Associated Press news agency that at least three protesters were wounded by bullets, with dozens of others beaten by the security forces and taken to hospital.

Iran's semi-official Fars news agency reported that one person had been shot dead by protesters and several others wounded.
Mr Mousavi's website, Kaleme.com, said that - according to unconfirmed reports - "hundreds of protesters" had been arrested. There has been no official confirmation, but witnesses told BBC Persian that dozens had been taken away in police vans from the area.

Police also later surrounded Tehran University and Sharif University, and the houses of former President Mohammad Khatami and Abdollah Nuri, a former interior minister and head of Tehran City Council.

As night fell, riot police remained deployed in central Tehran, but the protesters dispersed. The local electricity supply was also cut.


[...]


Although Iran's establishment officially supports the Egyptian protests, it says the rallies in Iran are a "political move" by opposition leaders.


In anticipation of the rally, the authorities stepped up security in the capital, blocked access to internet sites, and started jamming satellite news channels. Police helicopters also hovered overhead.


Analysts say Tehran is trying to stop opposition groups from using the Egypt rally as a means to re-ignite anti-government protests of 2009.


[...]


US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton hailed the courage and aspirations of the protesters, and spoke of the Iranian government's "hypocrisy".


"We are against violence and we would call to account the Iranian government that is once again using its security forces and resorting to violence to prevent the free expression of ideas from their own people," she told reporters in Washington.

Can the opposition in Iran use Egypt and Tunisia as a rallying point to rekindle the anti-government protests of 2009? Can the success in Egypt and Tunisia be reproduced in Iran?

They have a few things going against them. For one, the Iranian people are not Arab. The nationalistic solidarity that spurred on the protests in the Arab world isn't there. Second, unlike Egypt and Tunisia, the Iranian government has demonstrated in the recent past a willingness to brutally crack down and terrorize a protesting population. The Iranian military is unlikely to be as much on the people's side as the Egyptian military was. Finally, Iran cannot be easily influenced by the international community and certainly not by the United States, which given the fact that it bank rolls the Egyptian military cannot be denied to have influenced the outcome in Egypt.
 
EagleSmack
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

Second, unlike Egypt and Tunisia, the Iranian government has demonstrated in the recent past a willingness to brutally crack down and terrorize a protesting population.

That is the kicker right there son.

The Guardian Council and Supreme Leader care little for the people and what they want.
 
BaalsTears
#3
The Iranian protestors will require much greater physical courage than did the Egyptian protestors. The Basenji will shoot the Iranian protestors from rooftops like they did in 2009.
 
petros
#4
First they'd need the military and cops on the side of the people.

You'd be surprised what some people will do for a paycheque.
 
EagleSmack
+1
#5
So much for the Guardian Council of Iran praising the Egyptian protestors!

Your turn Mr. Supreme Leader.
 
gopher
+1
#6
''
They have a few things going against them.''

Most importantly - you forgot to include the fact that the government has MAJORITY support.
 
BaalsTears
#7
A regime with majority support does not have to shoot demonstrators from rooftops.
 
earth_as_one
#8
Iran will be a tough nut to crack. But Iranians have overthrown their government in the past. Hopefully this will grow.
Clashes reported in Iran protests - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

I doubt PM Harper will be calling for stability in this case.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Feb 14th, 2011 at 09:56 PM..
 
EagleSmack
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

''
They have a few things going against them.''

Most importantly - you forgot to include the fact that the government has MAJORITY support.

Never a loss for entertainment!
 
gopher
+1
#10
.. or for the truth that you fail to confront
 
earth_as_one
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

Never a loss for entertainment!

Make the case ES. What evidence do you have that Iran's elections were fraudulent?

Here is a case that the elections were legit:
http://brillwebsite.com/writings/iran2009election.html

I don't care for Iran's government or political system. But I've yet to see any conclusive evidence that the elections were fraudulent.
 
gopher
+1
#12
I have yet to see even the slightest proof that the present government or system in Iran lacks majority support.

ES isn't going to produce any evidence to the contrary. He never does.
 
Colpy
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

I have yet to see even the slightest proof that the present government or system in Iran lacks majority support.

ES isn't going to produce any evidence to the contrary. He never does.

Man, you really are delusional.

In Iran, electoral candidates have to be approved by a clerical council.........in other words, the people get to choose between a nutcase Islamic looney, and a looney Islamic nutcase. That in itself renders their "elections" a complete waste of time, and NOT indicative of the mood of the people.

Mass protest in the streets, especially in the face of gunfire, arrest, torture, and execution usually are an indication that something might be wrong............

As I've said before, Israel and the USA should exercise great restraint over the Iranian atomic bomb project........as one would hate to see overt action legitimize a vicious crackdown on dissent, and drive secular nationalists into the loving embrace of the Mullahs.

However, if you convince me the current government of Iran expresses the wish of the people....well, join in the chorus...

Bomb bomb bomb...bomb bomb Iran......
Bomb Iran, because we can..

you get the idea.

30 years late.
 
EagleSmack
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

Make the case ES. What evidence do you have that Iran's elections were fraudulent?

Here is a case that the elections were legit:
http://brillwebsite.com/writings/iran2009election.html

I don't care for Iran's government or political system. But I've yet to see any conclusive evidence that the elections were fraudulent.

I KNEW you were all for the Iranian government crackdown on those protestors. You hated seeing the Iranian youth fight the government for the election fraud that occured.
 
gopher
+1
#15
''In Iran, electoral candidates have to be approved by a clerical council.....''

Because that is the choice of government made by the MAJORITY , genius.
 
EagleSmack
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Man, you really are delusional.

In Iran, electoral candidates have to be approved by a clerical council.........in other words, the people get to choose between a nutcase Islamic looney, and a looney Islamic nutcase. That in itself renders their "elections" a complete waste of time, and NOT indicative of the mood of the people.

.

You can't tell them anything Colpy. The FACT that the Iranian Guardian Council (which is not elected by the people) decides who will be allowed to run is Democracy to them. As long as Iran is in opposition to the US they can never do wrong.

Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

''In Iran, electoral candidates have to be approved by a clerical council.....''

Because that is the choice of government made by the MAJORITY , genius.

No genius... it was made after the Revolution by the ones with the guns. The people of Iran cannot and NEVER voted for the Guardian Council.
 
Colpy
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

''In Iran, electoral candidates have to be approved by a clerical council.....''

Because that is the choice of government made by the MAJORITY , genius.

`

Ahhh....now listen carefully....this is logic, so I know it is foreign to you.....

If the MAJORITY wish to elect only looney Islamists, then there is no need for the clerical council to approve candidates, as only looney Islamists would get elected.

The requirement for clerical approval is the factor that totally discredits Iranian "elections" from the outset.
 
gopher
+1
#18
''Islamists''


Hey Genius - for the 15,000th time, Islamists are Sunni, not Shiia. Teheran has no interest in creating an Islamic superstate since it is at war with its Sunni neighbors. Therefore, contrary to your Fox network inspired delusions, it is not a Islamist state.

Wow! My 7777 post. Lucky number - must be a Divine inspiration.
 
Colpy
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

''Islamists''


Hey Genius - for the 15,000th time, Islamists are Sunni, not Shiia. Teheran has no interest in creating an Islamic superstate since it is at war with its Sunni neighbors. Therefore, contrary to your Fox network inspired delusions, it is not a Islamist state.

Wow! My 7777 post. Lucky number - must be a Divine inspiration.

Iran is at war with whom??????
 
EagleSmack
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

''Islamists''


Hey Genius - for the 15,000th time, Islamists are Sunni, not Shiia. Teheran has no interest in creating an Islamic superstate

Hey Prof. Gopher... did you ever wonder why Iran is officialy know as the Islamic Republic of Iran ?

No?

Quote:

since it is at war with its Sunni neighbors.

Iran is at war? lol.

Wow.


Quote:

Therefore, contrary to your Fox network inspired delusions, it is not a Islamist state.

Yet they call themselves the Islamic Republic of Iran


Quote:

Wow! My 7777 post. Lucky number - must be a Divine inspiration.

I think Devine Inspiration is what is needed here.

Just another example as why you are certified.

Now say something more bizarre.
 
gopher
+1
#21
Let me word it more correctly - it is Sunni extremism that is at war with the Shiia. The conflict Iran had with Republican hero Saddam was a sad manifestation of this difficulty.
 
EagleSmack
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

Let me word it more correctly - it is Sunni extremism that is at war with the Shiia. The conflict Iran had with Republican hero Saddam was a sad manifestation of this difficulty.

In other words...

You had no idea of what you were talking about.
 
gopher
+2
#23
No Eagle - I just misstated it. Still, there always was and remains conflict.

By contrast, your hero Colpy refers to Shiia as Islamist when that is a Sunni ideology and has failed to correct himself.
 
Corduroy
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

''
They have a few things going against them.''

Most importantly - you forgot to include the fact that the government has MAJORITY support.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was technically true (technically as in 50%+1), but I've never heard or read anything that confirms it. This thread has devolved into an uncivil debate, which I won't be taking part in. I only politely ask that you provide evidence for this claim. It's not something I'm arguing against, but certainly something I'd like to know if it was true.

This quote here:

Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

I have yet to see even the slightest proof that the present government or system in Iran lacks majority support.

ES isn't going to produce any evidence to the contrary. He never does.

leads me to believe that you value standards of evidence and look down on those who don't back up their claims.
 
EagleSmack
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

No Eagle - I just misstated it. Still, there always was and remains conflict.

You didn't mistate... you did what you always did and fired from the hip and got called out on it.

Quote:

By contrast, your hero Colpy refers to Shiia as Islamist when that is a Sunni ideology and has failed to correct himself.

You need to do some reading.

The definition of Islamist is "supporting or advocating Islamic Fundementalism". Which of course Iran does or else why would they call their nation the Islamic Republic of Iran ?
 
earth_as_one
+1
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

I KNEW you were all for the Iranian government crackdown on those protestors. You hated seeing the Iranian youth fight the government for the election fraud that occured.

Absolutely not! I'd like to see the Iranian people rise up and overthrow their government. I believe in separation of church and state. I'd like to see Iran become a free SECULAR democracy. I am aware that Iran's clerics vet candidates as Colpy mentioned. Since everyone is aware of this and its in their constitution, I would consider that interference, not fraud.

Fraud is when you stuff ballot boxes, people vote multiple times, children and dead people vote and so on... I keep hearing that Iran's elections were fraudulent, just like you have. Claims that Iran's elections were fraudulent are almost never accompanied by references to the evidence. I had to go digging for it to find out the basis of these claims. It wasn't that easy to find and what I saw did not impress me. Let's put it this way. The evidence suggests election fraud, but its hardly conclusive. I'm not saying I know for certain Iran's elections were free and fair. On the contrary, I suspect that Iran's last elections were fraudulent, but what I found didn't convince me beyond a reasonable doubt.

My point is that I suspect you have no clue why Iran's last elections were considered by some people as fraudulent. Unless you are aware of that evidence, then you you aren't judging Iran's last election for yourself. Some talking head on your idiot box told you Iran's last elections were fraudulent, showed you some images of protesters on Iranian streets holding up signs, the police brutally cracking down... (That isn't evidence either) and you just took the talking head's word for it. That's not being informed, that's called being manipulated...

BTW, opposition protests aren't proof of fraud either. They could be sore losers.

So you tell me. On what basis do you believe Iran's elections were fraudulent.

Oh yes please don't twist my posts into some sort of support for Iran's theocracy. I absolutely support free and fair elections in Iran without religious or any other interference. I am on the side of Iran's opposition protesters.
 
EagleSmack
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

Oh yes please don't twist my posts into some sort of support for Iran's theocracy. I absolutely support free and fair elections in Iran without religious or any other interference. I am on the side of Iran's opposition protesters.

Ok then. The Guardian Council are the only ones who can chose who the people will vote for. Is that a free and fair election?

http://election.princeton.edu/2009/0...lection-fraud/
 
ironsides
#28

From the country some of you most admire and support. They never had free elections.

TEHRAN, Iran – Hardline Iranian lawmakers called on Tuesday for the country's opposition leaders to face trial and be put to death, a day after clashes between [COLOR=#366388! important][COLOR=#366388! important]opposition [COLOR=#366388! important]protesters[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] and security forces left one person dead and dozens injured.
Tens of thousands of people turned out for the opposition rally Monday in solidarity with Egypt's popular revolt that toppled President Hosni Mubarak after nearly 30 years in power. The demonstration was the first major show of strength from Iran's beleaguered opposition in more than a year.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_iran_opposition
 
EagleSmack
#29
Believe me, the non-elected Supreme Leader of Iran and the non-elected Guardian Council will clear the streets with gunfire before they go by the way of Egypt.
 
ironsides
#30
The blood letting is already starting.
 

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