Gun Control is Completely Useless.


AnnaG
#601
You know, I am almost to the point of thinking seriously if the gov't can't do much about criminals, they should at least let us shoot back at them. Maybe a couple thumps on the breastbone or noggin with a couple rubber bullets might smarten some of them up.
Perhaps a sign outside the house saying, "This is a military household, your activities better be law-abiding or you will be dealt with. If you aren't law-abiding, the house is rigged".
 
AnnaG
#602
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides View Post

Question: is this so called gun show loophole that your referring to allowed in Canada?

No. Unforgiven is squawking about a gunshow loophole in your country, as if that's where most illegal guns coming into Canada come from.
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#603
You know the funny thing is you buy maybe 1 or 2 guns at a show or from an individual, not cases like he intimates. If someone buys a weapon complete with papers then sell it to a Canadian who then uses it in a crime, the trail will still not cross the border back to the owner. I don't think we would share a National data base with the world. I could just visualize private information being broadcasted to the world.

http://www.automagpistol.com/


Last edited by ironsides; Sep 13th, 2009 at 03:20 PM..
 
DaSleeper
#604
Now, this is not second hand information, this is personal, proving that this gun registry is hogwash....
This afternoon after reading this thread, I decide to access my file under my my F.A.C. #.
First I find out it has been transferred from Miramichi to the R.C.M.P......then when I finally get in...I find out that that a double barrel "Boito" coach gun I purchased in 2001 is not in my file, but three pistols, one 357 SP 101, one 44 Ruger Super Blackhawk, and one 28 gauge Booth pistol, that I sold in 2005 still are in my file.....
Now I have the hard copy and confirmation letters from the registry office in my safe for all those transactions...

Tomorrow morning I have to call some people for a friendly chat....and in the morning , before my second cup of coffee, I'm not too friendly

Now...I don't know if something got lost in the data base transfer... but thank goodness my paranoia makes me keep hard copies of everything

Now I gotta call a friend tonight in Toronto, who is an antique firearms dealer/collector and have him check his internet file for irregularities....but I know he keeps good paperwork......while for me , it's only four firearms, for him, it could be considerably more.

Hopefully it's a glitch only affecting the online files.....


Now.... will anyone tell me to have faith in that bullsh*t bureaucracy with a straight face????
 
Unforgiven
#605
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides View Post

Question: is this so called gun show loophole that your referring to allowed in Canada?

Nope.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#606
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper View Post

Now, this is not second hand information, this is personal, proving that this gun registry is hogwash....
This afternoon after reading this thread, I decide to access my file under my my F.A.C. #.
First I find out it has been transferred from Miramichi to the R.C.M.P......then when I finally get in...I find out that that a double barrel "Boito" coach gun I purchased in 2001 is not in my file, but three pistols, one 357 SP 101, one 44 Ruger Super Blackhawk, and one 28 gauge Booth pistol, that I sold in 2005 still are in my file.....
Now I have the hard copy and confirmation letters from the registry office in my safe for all those transactions...

Tomorrow morning I have to call some people for a friendly chat....and in the morning , before my second cup of coffee, I'm not too friendly

Now...I don't know if something got lost in the data base transfer... but thank goodness my paranoia makes me keep hard copies of everything

Now I gotta call a friend tonight in Toronto, who is an antique firearms dealer/collector and have him check his internet file for irregularities....but I know he keeps good paperwork......while for me , it's only four firearms, for him, it could be considerably more.

Hopefully it's a glitch only affecting the online files.....


Now.... will anyone tell me to have faith in that bullsh*t bureaucracy with a straight face????

The old registry was so botched that it was not admissible in court. The new one is as bad, if not worse.....and will also not be admissible as evidence. If you are unjustly charged with any firearms offense.....call the National Firearms Association, who have accumulated much legal precedent in the area.....they saved the butt of a local who was accused of ownership of an unregistered handgun...

In fact, if you own a gun, call the NFA, and join.

Be careful what you say to these idiots....you might wind up needing the NFA's expertise......

Everybody, and I do mean everybody, that has dealt with the bureaucracy at length, has a horror story.....don't get me started on the ones I know of personally....including my own.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#607
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides View Post

You know the funny thing is you buy maybe 1 or 2 guns at a show or from an individual, not cases like he intimates. If someone buys a weapon complete with papers then sell it to a Canadian who then uses it in a crime, the trail will still not cross the border back to the owner. I don't think we would share a National data base with the world. I could just visualize private information being broadcasted to the world.

http://www.automagpistol.com/



BINGO! The entire fiasco is soooo stupid, as all one would require in the USA is someone resident to go into ANY store and buy a firearm.....then resell it 10 minutes later to the "gangbangers".

The "gunshow loophole" is, of course, a complete red herring foisted on the weak-minded by the anti-gun lobby in an attempt to harass for no good reason gun owners in the USA.

Completely idiotic.
 
Unforgiven
#608
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides View Post

You know the funny thing is you buy maybe 1 or 2 guns at a show or from an individual, not cases like he intimates. If someone buys a weapon complete with papers then sell it to a Canadian who then uses it in a crime, the trail will still not cross the border back to the owner. I don't think we would share a National data base with the world. I could just visualize private information being broadcasted to the world.

http://www.automagpistol.com/

I am not sure if you simply don't grasp the context that I am posting about the gun show loophole, or if you are purposefully acting obtuse.

Many States have no regulations at all about private gun sales. You can sell your gun to someone else without filing any paper work with anyone. You don't have to record anything on paper or anything. So selling your gun to someone doesn't require a single thing. This makes it not only easy to buy a gun, but difficult to stop someone from trafficking guns that are purchased legally then sold privately without any record of who bought it, when or if they were allowed to have a gun.

The Canadian connection is that someone who wants to can sell a gun to someone who will smuggle it into Canada and it ends up killing or injuring an innocent bystander.

And so it is that I feel the gun show loophole should be closed in all States while preserving the rights of legitimate and peaceful gun owners to enjoy their hobby.
 
Unforgiven
#609
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

BINGO! The entire fiasco is soooo stupid, as all one would require in the USA is someone resident to go into ANY store and buy a firearm.....then resell it 10 minutes later to the "gangbangers".

The "gunshow loophole" is, of course, a complete red herring foisted on the weak-minded by the anti-gun lobby in an attempt to harass for no good reason gun owners in the USA.

Completely idiotic.

So what you're saying is that there is no gun bought at a gun show in the US that ends up on Canadian streets involved in crime?
 
DaSleeper
#610
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

The old registry was so botched that it was not admissible in court. The new one is as bad, if not worse.....and will also not be admissible as evidence. If you are unjustly charged with any firearms offense.....call the National Firearms Association, who have accumulated much legal precedent in the area.....they saved the butt of a local who was accused of ownership of an unregistered handgun...

In fact, if you own a gun, call the NFA, and join.

Be careful what you say to these idiots....you might wind up needing the NFA's expertise......

Everybody, and I do mean everybody, that has dealt with the bureaucracy at length, has a horror story.....don't get me started on the ones I know of personally....including my own.

The last time I called them to check the database against my records was just at the beginning of the long gun registry, and at the time, everything matched so I got rid of old files I had of transactions in the '60s and '70s...but I still have copies of transactions from the '80s on, so I'm not worried about going to court or anything, Just pissed of that four transactions are missing so that theoretically if one of those guns I sold would be used in the commission of a crime, I would have to maybe not spend money to defend myself but it would be a waste of my time...although I personally know where those firearms are right now...(the advantage of living in a small town)

Edit: Been a member of the NFA for years...Was automatic when becoming a member of the Kapuskasing rod and gun club....for the liability insurance provided...then they switched to O.F.O.A.H.
Last edited by DaSleeper; Sep 13th, 2009 at 05:33 PM..
 
AnnaG
#611
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

The old registry was so botched that it was not admissible in court. The new one is as bad, if not worse.....and will also not be admissible as evidence. If you are unjustly charged with any firearms offense.....call the National Firearms Association, who have accumulated much legal precedent in the area.....they saved the butt of a local who was accused of ownership of an unregistered handgun...

In fact, if you own a gun, call the NFA, and join.

Be careful what you say to these idiots....you might wind up needing the NFA's expertise......

Everybody, and I do mean everybody, that has dealt with the bureaucracy at length, has a horror story.....don't get me started on the ones I know of personally....including my own.

I think the one person who best shows how much of an insane pile of crap the firearms registry is in Canada is Garry Breitkreuz. He's amassed thousands of anecdotes, statistics, facts, etc. pointing to the idiocy. (He's probably one of the handful of politicians I have any respect for. There's a couple in the territories that are pretty decent).
 
Unforgiven
#612
Just remember, we all have to work together to close the gun show loophole that allows so called "law abiding" gun owners to traffic firearms to gangsters and organized crime, no questions asked.
 
petros
#613
Too heck with ancient guns. I want the new energy weapons!!!
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#614
First lets see you guys stop blaming everyone else and stop trafficking in guns in Canada. Solve your mini hang-ups first if you can. I would start with a Canada first policy rather than what the Provinces want. You see we in the U.S. do not have the problem's, paranoia with firearm ownership that you seem to have. Stop worrying about what the other guy has all the time, like little children. Worry about yourselves.
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#615
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Too heck with ancient guns. I want the new energy weapons!!!


Yes, a plasma weapon would do just fine.
 
Unforgiven
#616
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides View Post

First lets see you guys stop blaming everyone else and stop trafficking in guns in Canada. Solve your mini hang-ups first if you can. I would start with a Canada first policy rather than what the Provinces want. You see we in the U.S. do not have the problem's, paranoia with firearm ownership that you seem to have. Stop worrying about what the other guy has all the time, like little children. Worry about yourselves.

You see that's because you're American, and few Americans can understand there are people outside of there own narrow view of what they want. You as an American don't understand gun control or care if what you do affect anyone one else. Have a look at your foreign policy.

What you are saying here is about the same as Canadians using the great lakes as a toxic dump and telling you to clean up your own side if you want it clean.

Americans supply most of the trafficed guns that come into Canada and wind up used in crime. Even though they're killing Canadians, you don't understand why it's your problem. Yet when someone sends people to America that use planes to kill Americans, then it's all about doing something where they came from. Or even where they didn't under the same premise.

And so it is Ironsides that I say you don't know what you're talking about which excludes you from the reasonable debate on the gun show loophole.
 
DaSleeper
#617
Just finished a call to the registration center, seems like changes had been made since the last time I had logged in in 2001.....I'm happy to say that I confirmed over the phone, that their records match mine...
 
petros
#618
I can't wait until tomorrow morning when that bull elk eats it's last bushel of my barley and it's liver is on my plate tomorrow night.

That registers just fine by me.
 
petros
#619
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

I can't wait until tomorrow morning when that bull elk eats it's last bushel of my barley and it's liver is on my plate tomorrow night.

That registers just fine by me.

BTW...You're next Yogi. No oats for you!
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#620
[quote=Unforgiven;1147674]You see that's because you're American, and few Americans can understand there are people outside of there own narrow view of what they want. You as an American don't understand gun control or care if what you do affect anyone one else. Have a look at your foreign policy.

What you are saying here is about the same as Canadians using the great lakes as a toxic dump and telling you to clean up your own side if you want it clean.

Americans supply most of the trafficed guns that come into Canada and wind up used in crime. Even though they're killing Canadians, you don't understand why it's your problem. Yet when someone sends people to America that use planes to kill Americans, then it's all about doing something where they came from. Or even where they didn't under the same premise.

I have no idea where you get the idea that a gun bought at a gun show passes on with out paper work. A long gun can be sold without leaving a paper trail, a handgun cannot. I'll give you a example of what you are spouting. I can go to Toronto and get any drugs/anti biotic I want over the counter without a prescription. See you have loopholes in your drug system. Is there any truth in what I said, of course not. Any truth in what you have said, of course not. The only way you could purchase a handgun in the U.S. would be what we call under the counter. (If someone was to sell you a gun personally, no one else involved) If you have a gun problem, clean up your own mess, stop blaming everyone else in the world for your problems.
 
Unforgiven
#621
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides View Post

I have no idea where you get the idea that a gun bought at a gun show passes on with out paper work.



Private sales between two people are not subject to the same regulations firearms dealers are. That the facts jack. Gun shows are made up of about 50% dealers and 50% private citizens.

Quote:

A long gun can be sold without leaving a paper trail, a handgun cannot.



So you're saying that Joe B has to provide a paper trail when he sells his gun to Bob J in a private sale, in let's say Vermont? It's not true but I would like to see if you lie about it or admit that it's not true.

Quote:

I'll give you a example of what you are spouting. I can go to Toronto and get any drugs/anti biotic I want over the counter without a prescription.



No you can't. You can make stuff up all you want but it doesn't change the gun show loophole one bit.

Quote:

See you have loopholes in your drug system. Is there any truth in what I said, of course not. Any truth in what you have said, of course not.



Quote:

The only way you could purchase a handgun in the U.S. would be what we call under the counter. (If someone was to sell you a gun personally, no one else involved)



So what you mean is you personally don't want to call it the gun show loophole. Instead you want to call it the "under the counter" loophole.

Call it the Bob's luckyduck fricken loophole if that's what gets you through the night. It's still selling guns without a paper trail no questions asked. Just like I said.

Quote:

If you have a gun problem, clean up your own mess, stop blaming everyone else in the world for your problems.

You're the cause of the problem. It's time to clean up and you're in the sights now.

No more gun show loophole. No more trafficing guns to criminals. No more Second Amendment out of context crap. Gun owners had plenty of time to resolve the problem and now it's time for someone else to do it. You have a problem with that? Tough.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#622
Unforgiven said......
Quote:

No more Second Amendment out of context crap.

Colpy says: Educate yourself!!!!! Quotes from those responsible for the Second Amendment....read it and you may be a little less apt to make a complete fool of yourself when discussing constitutional rights, which you so obviously don't understand.

GunCite: Second Amendment-Quotes from the Founding Fathers and their contemporaries on the right to keep and bear arms.

My personal favourite:
Quote:

We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; ---Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. Memorial Edition 16:45, Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.


(my emphasis)
 
Unforgiven
#623
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Unforgiven said......

Colpy says: Educate yourself!!!!! Quotes from those responsible for the Second Amendment....read it and you may be a little less apt to make a complete fool of yourself when discussing constitutional rights, which you so obviously don't understand.

GunCite: Second Amendment-Quotes from the Founding Fathers and their contemporaries on the right to keep and bear arms.

My personal favourite:

(my emphasis)

that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; ---Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. Memorial Edition 16:45, Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.

Yet no arms in Court, none on a plane, aren't American rights being violated Colpy? No guns allowed in jail, why in many places in the US you have to get special permission to have a gun with you.

Not quite what Jefferson meant when he said that is it?

No one attending the House is armed. No one who visits the White House is armed. In a number of high schools they check to make sure you don't carry a gun. Why is it that with all these clearly open violations of what you seem to think the Second Amendment means is violated each and every day, apparently to no one's imposition, and yet none of the gun owning second amendment thumping brethren in the NRA or yours are up in "arms" about it?

It's simple Colpy. Not a single one of you would no matter how pressed, stand up for the principles these founding fathers had and valued. Not a single one.
You and I both know that the government could say tomorrow that there are no more guns allowed and when the police or military came to your house you would not risk a hair in stopping them from taking each and every gun you owned from you.

So piss off with the rhetoric and get on board. It's time to stop those who are putting guns into the hands of criminals. It's time to stop the trafficking of guns to gangsters and madmen. It's time to close the gun show loophole and end undocumented private sales in the US.
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#624
Quote: Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post

[/font]

Private sales between two people are not subject to the same regulations firearms dealers are. That the facts jack. Gun shows are made up of about 50% dealers and 50% private citizens.



So you're saying that Joe B has to provide a paper trail when he sells his gun to Bob J in a private sale, in let's say Vermont? It's not true but I would like to see if you lie about it or admit that it's not true.



No you can't. You can make stuff up all you want but it doesn't change the gun show loophole one bit.





So what you mean is you personally don't want to call it the gun show loophole. Instead you want to call it the "under the counter" loophole.

Call it the Bob's luckyduck fricken loophole if that's what gets you through the night. It's still selling guns without a paper trail no questions asked. Just like I said.

[font=Arial]

You're the cause of the problem. It's time to clean up and you're in the sights now.

No more gun show loophole. No more trafficing guns to criminals. No more Second Amendment out of context crap. Gun owners had plenty of time to resolve the problem and now it's time for someone else to do it. You have a problem with that? Tough.


We have nothing to resolve. You still do not get it, it is not our problem it is yours.

Fastest Shot in the world

Kim Komando’s Video of the Day » Blog Archive » Fastest shot in the world
 
Unforgiven
#625
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides View Post

We have nothing to resolve. You still do not get it, it is not our problem it is yours.

Fastest Shot in the world

Kim Komando’s Video of the Day » Blog Archive » Fastest shot in the world

I get it, it's your actions that are responsible for part of our problem. And a good portion of your own as well. Over a hobby it's stupid to allow it.
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#626
Our actions over a hobby as you call it were around long before you were a country. You seem to like to blame everyone else for this problem you have, so be it. Seems to be what everyone does these days. It is not a hobby to some, they take it quite serious. You do have the means at your disposal to have almost zero smuggling of guns into Canada if you so chose, but you don't use it.

 
Unforgiven
#627
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides View Post

Our actions over a hobby as you call it were around long before you were a country. You seem to like to blame everyone else for this problem you have, so be it. Seems to be what everyone does these days. It is not a hobby to some, they take it quite serious. You do have the means at your disposal to have almost zero smuggling of guns into Canada if you so chose, but you don't use it.

Please.

You're actions cause problems in other countries. America seems to have a long hisotry of this sort of thing. But that's not the point here, the gun show loophole has to be closed. No longer can Americans sell guns to anyone who wants them no questions asked.

That you don't want to be part of the solution, you're only one more fool to brush aside while the changes that need to be made are put into place. Thank goodness that a real president has been elected and we can finally get some control over the idiots that can't control themselves.

Now you will have to be an actual law abiding peaceful gun owner to enjoy the hobby instead of a sociopathic gun trafficking scumbag that profits off the pain and suffering of others.
 
DaSleeper
#628
Don't worry Unforgiven they're getting there....


Selling Toy Cap Guns |
 
DaSleeper
#629
And just remember .......................

 
Colpy
Conservative
#630
Quote: Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post

Please.

You're actions cause problems in other countries. America seems to have a long hisotry of this sort of thing. But that's not the point here, the gun show loophole has to be closed. No longer can Americans sell guns to anyone who wants them no questions asked.

That you don't want to be part of the solution, you're only one more fool to brush aside while the changes that need to be made are put into place. Thank goodness that a real president has been elected and we can finally get some control over the idiots that can't control themselves.

Now you will have to be an actual law abiding peaceful gun owner to enjoy the hobby instead of a sociopathic gun trafficking scumbag that profits off the pain and suffering of others.

The only one here that is losing control over guns seems to be you.....

And, BTW, the President can not legitimately over-ride the US Constitution. Isn't that what the left kept accusing the pariah president Bush of doing? (Correctly, IMHO, just so we keep that clear. Mr. Bush had not read the Fifth Amendment)