Orange Order and Orange Men in Canada

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Three members have been Prime Ministers of Canada, namely Sir John A. Macdonald, the father of Canadian Confederation, Sir Mackenzie Bowell, a Past Grand Master, and John Diefenbaker. Premier Joseph Smallwood, who brought Newfoundland (which is often described as the most Irish place outside Ireland, see article Irish Newfoundlanders) into the Canadian Confederation in 1949, was also an Orangeman.

The Orange Order played an important role in the history of Canada, where it was established in 1830. Most early members were from Ireland, but later many English, Scots, and other Protestant Europeans joined the Order. There are also Mohawk Lodges in Ontario.

It was the chief social institution in Upper Canada (today's southern Ontario) and organized many community and benevolent activities. It also helped Protestant immigrants to settle. The Order remained a predominant political force in southern Ontario well into the twentieth century. A notable exception to Orange predominance occurred in London, Ontario, where Catholic and Protestant Irish formed a non-sectarian Irish society in 1877.

The Orange Order played an important role in the crisis over the 1885 trial of Louis Riel for treason. The Canadian prime minister of the day, Sir John A. Macdonald, is believed to have refused to commute Riel's death sentence because he calculated that there were more Orange votes to be got by hanging Riel than there were Quebec votes to be got by sparing him. He is famously quoted as saying "Riel must die though every dog in Quebec bark in his favour."

The Orange Order became a central facet of life in Ontario, especially in the business centre of Toronto where many deals and relationships were forged at the lodge.

The Orange Lodge was, and remains, a center for community activity in Newfoundland. For example, in 1903 Sir William Coaker founded the Fisherman's Protective Union (F.P.U.) in an Orange Hall in Herring Neck. Furthermore, during the term of Commission of Government (1934-1949), the Orange Lodge was one of only a handful of "democratic" organizations that existed in the Dominion of Newfoundland.

In 1913, the Orange Association of Manitoba volunteered a regiment to fight with the Ulster Volunteer Force against the British government were Home Rule to be introduced to Ireland.

Below is a portion of an address by H.C. Hocken, Most Worshipful Grand Master of the Grand Orange Lodge of British America, given to the delegates in attendance at the 89th annual sessions held at St. George's Parish Hall in Ottawa, Ontario from July, 30, 1919 - August 1, 1919, the first session held after the end of World War I

"As an Order we have proved our loyalty to the King and our patriotism to our country, our Empire, and to the sacred cause of human liberty. We have given a demonstration of service and sacrifice which can never be blotted from the record of the Great War. It stands - and will stand forever - as an answer to every calumny that may be levelled at our loyal institution. Thousands of our best and noblest members sleep their last sleep in the soil of France and Belgium.*

"Their names liveth evermore." Their memories will be enshrined in our hearts, their names will be inscribed on imperishable bronze and marble, and the remembrance of their gallant deeds will be cherished by us, and become the inheritance of Orangemen yet unborn. It is for us who are left to carry on the work of our Association, to meet our tasks with the same unflinching courage that they exhibited, and show ourselves worthy of the gallant men who gave their lives to preserve our liberties.

Those who have gone through the awful conflict, who endured till the end and are now returned to resume their places in the life of Canada, will receive from all true Orangemen the affection and consideration that they so richly deserve. They have a claim upon us made sacred by their wounds and broken bodies. That claim will be recognized. Added to the fraternal bonds that bind our brotherhood is the solemn obligation to stand by them, and with them, as long as they live."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeman#The_Orange_Order_in_Canada

Yeah a nice little protestant group that has a long bloody history through terrorist actions and such. Created to deal with Catholics or in general Irish Catholics.

I read somewhere, that in New Brunswick forget which city, that they had an Orange Order parade in the 1850s and they marched through the Catholic Irish area and beat up a few people in their way. And they had arms and such and they said they would burn down the area the next time through. So when they came around for the second pass they were met by at least 100 armed irish Catholics who opened fire on the Orangemen which resulted in a short gunbattle. In history it is recorded that 1-3 people died, but it is believed that dozens died. Very interesting stuff.
 

Finder

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Dec 18, 2005
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Thats the good thing about my people, the Greens or the Irish Catholics and Republicans is you might get us once but we learn fast and we blow your heads off the next time you try to f with us.

read somewhere, that in New Brunswick forget which city, that they had an Orange Order parade in the 1850s and they marched through the Catholic Irish area and beat up a few people in their way. And they had arms and such and they said they would burn down the area the next time through. So when they came around for the second pass they were met by at least 100 armed irish Catholics who opened fire on the Orangemen which resulted in a short gunbattle. In history it is recorded that 1-3 people died, but it is believed that dozens died. Very interesting stuff.

I'm not a fan at all of the Orange order. In my eye's though the IRA (The main body of the IRA and not the small factions which call themselves the IRA such as the I-IRA and the P-IRA) has many down sides, the Orange order and it's Ulsters Protestant terrorists groups are by far the worst by pushing the catholics to force themselves to defeand themselves and making such groups like the IRA and even the more violent groups which do not support the peace accord such as the R-IRA and the P-IRA and many others to become the only means to which the Catholic and Republican Irish see that they are protected from such goans.

There is a so called "Orange benefit lodge" by my house and there was an Ornge and Blue lodge by my old house.
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
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Finder said:
Thats the good thing about my people, the Greens or the Irish Catholics and Republicans is you might get us once but we learn fast and we blow your heads off the next time you try to f with us.

read somewhere, that in New Brunswick forget which city, that they had an Orange Order parade in the 1850s and they marched through the Catholic Irish area and beat up a few people in their way. And they had arms and such and they said they would burn down the area the next time through. So when they came around for the second pass they were met by at least 100 armed irish Catholics who opened fire on the Orangemen which resulted in a short gunbattle. In history it is recorded that 1-3 people died, but it is believed that dozens died. Very interesting stuff.

I'm not a fan at all of the Orange order. In my eye's though the IRA (The main body of the IRA and not the small factions which call themselves the IRA such as the I-IRA and the P-IRA) has many down sides, the Orange order and it's Ulsters Protestant terrorists groups are by far the worst by pushing the catholics to force themselves to defeand themselves and making such groups like the IRA and even the more violent groups which do not support the peace accord such as the R-IRA and the P-IRA and many others to become the only means to which the Catholic and Republican Irish see that they are protected from such goans.

There is a so called "Orange benefit lodge" by my house and there was an Ornge and Blue lodge by my old house.

gotta disagree finder, blame the dutch, I do, Blame Billy of orange and his flute, cus he's stirred up a hell of a lot of stuff in scotland and north england too.

But to deny the unionists the right to stay in a land they see as british is just as much racial cleansing as the nazis or Rwanda, no side would have won, I dont know the ins and outs of the agreement that saw the irish free-state give up ulster, but it must have been bitter infighting cus we all know what happened to their leader.

I think both are as bad as each other, wanna be british?, fine, wanna be irish? swell, but both as I see it keep wanting to throw their baggage down everyone's throat, it's about time to end it all, let northern ireland become it's own country if it wants, just realise they are all as bad as each other, one will blame the other and so on, your obviously quite subjective because you clearly have catholic republican roots, but have a cold shower and try to look at it thru objective eyes
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
. : Irish Rovers - The Orange And The Green : .


.. - Irish Rovers Lyrics - The Orange And The Green Lyrics

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

My father was an Ulster man, proud Protestant was he.
My mother was a Catholic girl. From county Cork was she.
They were married in two churches, lived happily enough,
Until the day that I was born. Then, things got rather tough.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

Baptized by Father Reilly, I was rushed away by car,
To be made a little Orangeman, my father's shining star.
I was christened "David Anthony," but still, inspite of that,
To my father, I was William, while my mother called me Pat.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

With Mother every Sunday, to Mass I'd proudly stroll.
Then after that, the Orange lodge would try to save my soul.
For both sides tried to claim me, but i was smart because
I'd play the flute or play the harp, depending where I was.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

One day my Ma's relations came round to visit me.
Just as my father's kinfolk were all sitting down to tea.
We tried to smooth things over, but they all began to fight.
And me, being strictly neutral, I bashed everyone in sight.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

My parents never could agree about my type of school.
My learning was undone at home, that's why I'm such a fool.
They've both passed on, God rest 'em, but left me caught between
That awful color problem of the Orange and the Green.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Yeah. I enjoyed reading the article again about the incident. Because I just can't figure how a group of people could be so stupid, and say they were going to burn down a whole area and not expect resistance. Also, the Police Chief of the community (still don't know which one) Was the main leader of the Orangemen and he was shot which ensured he wouldn't have any children. Which is a double plus. :D
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
706
3
18
38
Petawawa Ontario
RE: Orange Order and Oran

I have no Problem with the Orange Order In Canada, they arent really causeing to much shit...as long as they stay that way, they can enjoy the benifits of Canada.

I have a few Orange men in my family None in my intermedite family, but one or 2 uncles and a few cusins...

I fun to listen to them talk about issues, they are a very passinote group.
 

Simpleton

Electoral Member
Jun 17, 2006
443
0
16
Sarnia
sarnia.selfip.org
Finder said:
Simpleton said:
"Oh, it is the biggest mix up,
That you have ever seen;
Me father, he was orange,
And me mother, she was green."


Gives new meaning that old song. Thanks for sharing this.


um, what song is that? lol.

Sorry, I believe it is an Irish Rovers song. Having been born in Newfoundland, I'm familiar with a lot of songs that most people would never have heard, I guess.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
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Toronto
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#juan said:
. : Irish Rovers - The Orange And The Green : .


.. - Irish Rovers Lyrics - The Orange And The Green Lyrics

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

My father was an Ulster man, proud Protestant was he.
My mother was a Catholic girl. From county Cork was she.
They were married in two churches, lived happily enough,
Until the day that I was born. Then, things got rather tough.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

Baptized by Father Reilly, I was rushed away by car,
To be made a little Orangeman, my father's shining star.
I was christened "David Anthony," but still, inspite of that,
To my father, I was William, while my mother called me Pat.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

With Mother every Sunday, to Mass I'd proudly stroll.
Then after that, the Orange lodge would try to save my soul.
For both sides tried to claim me, but i was smart because
I'd play the flute or play the harp, depending where I was.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

One day my Ma's relations came round to visit me.
Just as my father's kinfolk were all sitting down to tea.
We tried to smooth things over, but they all began to fight.
And me, being strictly neutral, I bashed everyone in sight.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

My parents never could agree about my type of school.
My learning was undone at home, that's why I'm such a fool.
They've both passed on, God rest 'em, but left me caught between
That awful color problem of the Orange and the Green.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green

ahhh ok... I know my favor liked that band. I never got into them.

I was never big into folk music. lol
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
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Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Daz_Hockey said:
Finder said:
Thats the good thing about my people, the Greens or the Irish Catholics and Republicans is you might get us once but we learn fast and we blow your heads off the next time you try to f with us.

read somewhere, that in New Brunswick forget which city, that they had an Orange Order parade in the 1850s and they marched through the Catholic Irish area and beat up a few people in their way. And they had arms and such and they said they would burn down the area the next time through. So when they came around for the second pass they were met by at least 100 armed irish Catholics who opened fire on the Orangemen which resulted in a short gunbattle. In history it is recorded that 1-3 people died, but it is believed that dozens died. Very interesting stuff.

I'm not a fan at all of the Orange order. In my eye's though the IRA (The main body of the IRA and not the small factions which call themselves the IRA such as the I-IRA and the P-IRA) has many down sides, the Orange order and it's Ulsters Protestant terrorists groups are by far the worst by pushing the catholics to force themselves to defeand themselves and making such groups like the IRA and even the more violent groups which do not support the peace accord such as the R-IRA and the P-IRA and many others to become the only means to which the Catholic and Republican Irish see that they are protected from such goans.

There is a so called "Orange benefit lodge" by my house and there was an Ornge and Blue lodge by my old house.

gotta disagree finder, blame the dutch, I do, Blame Billy of orange and his flute, cus he's stirred up a hell of a lot of stuff in scotland and north england too.

But to deny the unionists the right to stay in a land they see as british is just as much racial cleansing as the nazis or Rwanda, no side would have won, I dont know the ins and outs of the agreement that saw the irish free-state give up ulster, but it must have been bitter infighting cus we all know what happened to their leader.

I think both are as bad as each other, wanna be british?, fine, wanna be irish? swell, but both as I see it keep wanting to throw their baggage down everyone's throat, it's about time to end it all, let northern ireland become it's own country if it wants, just realise they are all as bad as each other, one will blame the other and so on, your obviously quite subjective because you clearly have catholic republican roots, but have a cold shower and try to look at it thru objective eyes


No as I said both sides do have a certain amount of blame to go around. But I do believe that Ireland is Ireland and that the Irish have the rights over Ireland and that I hope one day that Ireland will be a united Republic, or at least I hope the North of Ireland will be able to acieve more autonomy from the UK, perhaps as a Free State of some sort with ties to the British crown like Canada.

I don't believe the Catholics have ever marched around with the idea's of cleaning Ireland from the Orange, however we can all see the Orange year after year, AFTER YEAR Marching down on catholic communities with there parades and celeibrating the irish defeats and massacres in the faces of the Irish Catholics and the Irish Republicans. I'm sorry to say but I do fully believe the Orange act a lot like Fascists then those of the Greens, catholics and republicans. Yes all sides have done things wrong in the past and nobodies hands are clean and I am for sure not saying any sect or faction of the Irish Republican Army is clean but if for say the Irish were able to invade and hold england, would the Anglo-Saxons not feel the same way about there adopted homeland!
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
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RE: Orange Order and Oran

The Orangemen make a fitting example of "keep it over there" or in the case of Louis Riel, "keep it back then".
 

Finder

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Dec 18, 2005
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Re: RE: Orange Order and Oran

BitWhys said:
The Orangemen make a fitting example of "keep it over there" or in the case of Louis Riel, "keep it back then".


I think you lost me again. Also Louis Riel the Canadian rebel leader was French Catholic Canadian (and a republican I may add)
 

Finder

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Dec 18, 2005
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I enjoyed reading about the Red River rebellion in university. It's too bad none of the rebellions succeeded. Though I'm sure if they had we'd be apart of the USA right now. lol
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
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RE: Orange Order and Oran

I'll have to check if Riel had already told the US to piss off. Wasn't going to happen. The aboriginal were already on to the US. He was looking out for the Metis. He won his part. Its in court.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
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Yeah but all three Rebellions had some ties to the USA. As all three rebellions were more or less republican movements and the nearist republic was the USA which hated the British and thus were a natural ally to any Republican movement of it's time in Canada.

Generally the Early USA was a pretty lose confederation of states and more or less each state was generally a republic of it's own. I'm sure the USA could have gottien the Metis Republic to join. Remember after the first Reil Rebellion, Reil ran south into the USA as well.

I support all three rebellions in Canada but I do not doubt if they had succeeded that they would have joined the USA for protection against the British.

I think the USA would have been seen as the lesser of two evils at that time. However you are right that the native people in the USA were no friends of the republicans.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
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RE: Orange Order and Oran

Riel was not commited to the USA. In, maybe, but not to.

Riel was commited to the church and he told them a thing or too as well.

Where the hell else was he going to run? Sasketchewan? Nothing but trouble there. By that time they had already figured out the hunt migrates North.