Orange Order and Orange Men in Canada


Jersay
#1
Three members have been Prime Ministers of Canada, namely Sir John A. Macdonald, the father of Canadian Confederation, Sir Mackenzie Bowell, a Past Grand Master, and John Diefenbaker. Premier Joseph Smallwood, who brought Newfoundland (which is often described as the most Irish place outside Ireland, see article Irish Newfoundlanders) into the Canadian Confederation in 1949, was also an Orangeman.

The Orange Order played an important role in the history of Canada, where it was established in 1830. Most early members were from Ireland, but later many English, Scots, and other Protestant Europeans joined the Order. There are also Mohawk Lodges in Ontario.

It was the chief social institution in Upper Canada (today's southern Ontario) and organized many community and benevolent activities. It also helped Protestant immigrants to settle. The Order remained a predominant political force in southern Ontario well into the twentieth century. A notable exception to Orange predominance occurred in London, Ontario, where Catholic and Protestant Irish formed a non-sectarian Irish society in 1877.

The Orange Order played an important role in the crisis over the 1885 trial of Louis Riel for treason. The Canadian prime minister of the day, Sir John A. Macdonald, is believed to have refused to commute Riel's death sentence because he calculated that there were more Orange votes to be got by hanging Riel than there were Quebec votes to be got by sparing him. He is famously quoted as saying "Riel must die though every dog in Quebec bark in his favour."

The Orange Order became a central facet of life in Ontario, especially in the business centre of Toronto where many deals and relationships were forged at the lodge.

The Orange Lodge was, and remains, a center for community activity in Newfoundland. For example, in 1903 Sir William Coaker founded the Fisherman's Protective Union (F.P.U.) in an Orange Hall in Herring Neck. Furthermore, during the term of Commission of Government (1934-1949), the Orange Lodge was one of only a handful of "democratic" organizations that existed in the Dominion of Newfoundland.

In 1913, the Orange Association of Manitoba volunteered a regiment to fight with the Ulster Volunteer Force against the British government were Home Rule to be introduced to Ireland.

Below is a portion of an address by H.C. Hocken, Most Worshipful Grand Master of the Grand Orange Lodge of British America, given to the delegates in attendance at the 89th annual sessions held at St. George's Parish Hall in Ottawa, Ontario from July, 30, 1919 - August 1, 1919, the first session held after the end of World War I

"As an Order we have proved our loyalty to the King and our patriotism to our country, our Empire, and to the sacred cause of human liberty. We have given a demonstration of service and sacrifice which can never be blotted from the record of the Great War. It stands - and will stand forever - as an answer to every calumny that may be levelled at our loyal institution. Thousands of our best and noblest members sleep their last sleep in the soil of France and Belgium.*

"Their names liveth evermore." Their memories will be enshrined in our hearts, their names will be inscribed on imperishable bronze and marble, and the remembrance of their gallant deeds will be cherished by us, and become the inheritance of Orangemen yet unborn. It is for us who are left to carry on the work of our Association, to meet our tasks with the same unflinching courage that they exhibited, and show ourselves worthy of the gallant men who gave their lives to preserve our liberties.

Those who have gone through the awful conflict, who endured till the end and are now returned to resume their places in the life of Canada, will receive from all true Orangemen the affection and consideration that they so richly deserve. They have a claim upon us made sacred by their wounds and broken bodies. That claim will be recognized. Added to the fraternal bonds that bind our brotherhood is the solemn obligation to stand by them, and with them, as long as they live."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangem...rder_in_Canada

Yeah a nice little protestant group that has a long bloody history through terrorist actions and such. Created to deal with Catholics or in general Irish Catholics.

I read somewhere, that in New Brunswick forget which city, that they had an Orange Order parade in the 1850s and they marched through the Catholic Irish area and beat up a few people in their way. And they had arms and such and they said they would burn down the area the next time through. So when they came around for the second pass they were met by at least 100 armed irish Catholics who opened fire on the Orangemen which resulted in a short gunbattle. In history it is recorded that 1-3 people died, but it is believed that dozens died. Very interesting stuff.
 
Finder
#2
Thats the good thing about my people, the Greens or the Irish Catholics and Republicans is you might get us once but we learn fast and we blow your heads off the next time you try to f with us.

Quote:

read somewhere, that in New Brunswick forget which city, that they had an Orange Order parade in the 1850s and they marched through the Catholic Irish area and beat up a few people in their way. And they had arms and such and they said they would burn down the area the next time through. So when they came around for the second pass they were met by at least 100 armed irish Catholics who opened fire on the Orangemen which resulted in a short gunbattle. In history it is recorded that 1-3 people died, but it is believed that dozens died. Very interesting stuff.

I'm not a fan at all of the Orange order. In my eye's though the IRA (The main body of the IRA and not the small factions which call themselves the IRA such as the I-IRA and the P-IRA) has many down sides, the Orange order and it's Ulsters Protestant terrorists groups are by far the worst by pushing the catholics to force themselves to defeand themselves and making such groups like the IRA and even the more violent groups which do not support the peace accord such as the R-IRA and the P-IRA and many others to become the only means to which the Catholic and Republican Irish see that they are protected from such goans.

There is a so called "Orange benefit lodge" by my house and there was an Ornge and Blue lodge by my old house.
 
Simpleton
#3
"Oh, it is the biggest mix up,
That you have ever seen;
Me father, he was orange,
And me mother, she was green."


Gives new meaning that old song. Thanks for sharing this.
 
Finder
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Simpleton

"Oh, it is the biggest mix up,
That you have ever seen;
Me father, he was orange,
And me mother, she was green."


Gives new meaning that old song. Thanks for sharing this.


um, what song is that? lol.
 
Daz_Hockey
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Finder

Thats the good thing about my people, the Greens or the Irish Catholics and Republicans is you might get us once but we learn fast and we blow your heads off the next time you try to f with us.

Quote:

read somewhere, that in New Brunswick forget which city, that they had an Orange Order parade in the 1850s and they marched through the Catholic Irish area and beat up a few people in their way. And they had arms and such and they said they would burn down the area the next time through. So when they came around for the second pass they were met by at least 100 armed irish Catholics who opened fire on the Orangemen which resulted in a short gunbattle. In history it is recorded that 1-3 people died, but it is believed that dozens died. Very interesting stuff.

I'm not a fan at all of the Orange order. In my eye's though the IRA (The main body of the IRA and not the small factions which call themselves the IRA such as the I-IRA and the P-IRA) has many down sides, the Orange order and it's Ulsters Protestant terrorists groups are by far the worst by pushing the catholics to force themselves to defeand themselves and making such groups like the IRA and even the more violent groups which do not support the peace accord such as the R-IRA and the P-IRA and many others to become the only means to which the Catholic and Republican Irish see that they are protected from such goans.

There is a so called "Orange benefit lodge" by my house and there was an Ornge and Blue lodge by my old house.

gotta disagree finder, blame the dutch, I do, Blame Billy of orange and his flute, cus he's stirred up a hell of a lot of stuff in scotland and north england too.

But to deny the unionists the right to stay in a land they see as british is just as much racial cleansing as the nazis or Rwanda, no side would have won, I dont know the ins and outs of the agreement that saw the irish free-state give up ulster, but it must have been bitter infighting cus we all know what happened to their leader.

I think both are as bad as each other, wanna be british?, fine, wanna be irish? swell, but both as I see it keep wanting to throw their baggage down everyone's throat, it's about time to end it all, let northern ireland become it's own country if it wants, just realise they are all as bad as each other, one will blame the other and so on, your obviously quite subjective because you clearly have catholic republican roots, but have a cold shower and try to look at it thru objective eyes
 
#juan
No Party Affiliation
#6
. : Irish Rovers - The Orange And The Green : .


.. - Irish Rovers Lyrics - The Orange And The Green Lyrics

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

My father was an Ulster man, proud Protestant was he.
My mother was a Catholic girl. From county Cork was she.
They were married in two churches, lived happily enough,
Until the day that I was born. Then, things got rather tough.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

Baptized by Father Reilly, I was rushed away by car,
To be made a little Orangeman, my father's shining star.
I was christened "David Anthony," but still, inspite of that,
To my father, I was William, while my mother called me Pat.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

With Mother every Sunday, to Mass I'd proudly stroll.
Then after that, the Orange lodge would try to save my soul.
For both sides tried to claim me, but i was smart because
I'd play the flute or play the harp, depending where I was.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

One day my Ma's relations came round to visit me.
Just as my father's kinfolk were all sitting down to tea.
We tried to smooth things over, but they all began to fight.
And me, being strictly neutral, I bashed everyone in sight.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

My parents never could agree about my type of school.
My learning was undone at home, that's why I'm such a fool.
They've both passed on, God rest 'em, but left me caught between
That awful color problem of the Orange and the Green.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green
 
Jersay
#7
Yeah. I enjoyed reading the article again about the incident. Because I just can't figure how a group of people could be so stupid, and say they were going to burn down a whole area and not expect resistance. Also, the Police Chief of the community (still don't know which one) Was the main leader of the Orangemen and he was shot which ensured he wouldn't have any children. Which is a double plus.
 
EastSideScotian
#8
I have no Problem with the Orange Order In Canada, they arent really causeing to much shit...as long as they stay that way, they can enjoy the benifits of Canada.

I have a few Orange men in my family None in my intermedite family, but one or 2 uncles and a few cusins...

I fun to listen to them talk about issues, they are a very passinote group.
 
Simpleton
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Finder

Quote: Originally Posted by Simpleton

"Oh, it is the biggest mix up,
That you have ever seen;
Me father, he was orange,
And me mother, she was green."


Gives new meaning that old song. Thanks for sharing this.


um, what song is that? lol.

Sorry, I believe it is an Irish Rovers song. Having been born in Newfoundland, I'm familiar with a lot of songs that most people would never have heard, I guess.
 
Finder
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan

. : Irish Rovers - The Orange And The Green : .


.. - Irish Rovers Lyrics - The Orange And The Green Lyrics

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

My father was an Ulster man, proud Protestant was he.
My mother was a Catholic girl. From county Cork was she.
They were married in two churches, lived happily enough,
Until the day that I was born. Then, things got rather tough.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

Baptized by Father Reilly, I was rushed away by car,
To be made a little Orangeman, my father's shining star.
I was christened "David Anthony," but still, inspite of that,
To my father, I was William, while my mother called me Pat.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

With Mother every Sunday, to Mass I'd proudly stroll.
Then after that, the Orange lodge would try to save my soul.
For both sides tried to claim me, but i was smart because
I'd play the flute or play the harp, depending where I was.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

One day my Ma's relations came round to visit me.
Just as my father's kinfolk were all sitting down to tea.
We tried to smooth things over, but they all began to fight.
And me, being strictly neutral, I bashed everyone in sight.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

My parents never could agree about my type of school.
My learning was undone at home, that's why I'm such a fool.
They've both passed on, God rest 'em, but left me caught between
That awful color problem of the Orange and the Green.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green

ahhh ok... I know my favor liked that band. I never got into them.

I was never big into folk music. lol
 
Finder
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_Hockey

Quote: Originally Posted by Finder

Thats the good thing about my people, the Greens or the Irish Catholics and Republicans is you might get us once but we learn fast and we blow your heads off the next time you try to f with us.

Quote:

read somewhere, that in New Brunswick forget which city, that they had an Orange Order parade in the 1850s and they marched through the Catholic Irish area and beat up a few people in their way. And they had arms and such and they said they would burn down the area the next time through. So when they came around for the second pass they were met by at least 100 armed irish Catholics who opened fire on the Orangemen which resulted in a short gunbattle. In history it is recorded that 1-3 people died, but it is believed that dozens died. Very interesting stuff.

I'm not a fan at all of the Orange order. In my eye's though the IRA (The main body of the IRA and not the small factions which call themselves the IRA such as the I-IRA and the P-IRA) has many down sides, the Orange order and it's Ulsters Protestant terrorists groups are by far the worst by pushing the catholics to force themselves to defeand themselves and making such groups like the IRA and even the more violent groups which do not support the peace accord such as the R-IRA and the P-IRA and many others to become the only means to which the Catholic and Republican Irish see that they are protected from such goans.

There is a so called "Orange benefit lodge" by my house and there was an Ornge and Blue lodge by my old house.

gotta disagree finder, blame the dutch, I do, Blame Billy of orange and his flute, cus he's stirred up a hell of a lot of stuff in scotland and north england too.

But to deny the unionists the right to stay in a land they see as british is just as much racial cleansing as the nazis or Rwanda, no side would have won, I dont know the ins and outs of the agreement that saw the irish free-state give up ulster, but it must have been bitter infighting cus we all know what happened to their leader.

I think both are as bad as each other, wanna be british?, fine, wanna be irish? swell, but both as I see it keep wanting to throw their baggage down everyone's throat, it's about time to end it all, let northern ireland become it's own country if it wants, just realise they are all as bad as each other, one will blame the other and so on, your obviously quite subjective because you clearly have catholic republican roots, but have a cold shower and try to look at it thru objective eyes


No as I said both sides do have a certain amount of blame to go around. But I do believe that Ireland is Ireland and that the Irish have the rights over Ireland and that I hope one day that Ireland will be a united Republic, or at least I hope the North of Ireland will be able to acieve more autonomy from the UK, perhaps as a Free State of some sort with ties to the British crown like Canada.

I don't believe the Catholics have ever marched around with the idea's of cleaning Ireland from the Orange, however we can all see the Orange year after year, AFTER YEAR Marching down on catholic communities with there parades and celeibrating the irish defeats and massacres in the faces of the Irish Catholics and the Irish Republicans. I'm sorry to say but I do fully believe the Orange act a lot like Fascists then those of the Greens, catholics and republicans. Yes all sides have done things wrong in the past and nobodies hands are clean and I am for sure not saying any sect or faction of the Irish Republican Army is clean but if for say the Irish were able to invade and hold england, would the Anglo-Saxons not feel the same way about there adopted homeland!
 
BitWhys
#12
The Orangemen make a fitting example of "keep it over there" or in the case of Louis Riel, "keep it back then".
 
Finder
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys

The Orangemen make a fitting example of "keep it over there" or in the case of Louis Riel, "keep it back then".


I think you lost me again. Also Louis Riel the Canadian rebel leader was French Catholic Canadian (and a republican I may add)
 
BitWhys
#14
The Orangemen got him hanged.
 
Finder
#15
Ah yes ok. Orange men, Ontario Anglican Settlers, one in the same back then. lol
 
BitWhys
#16
its a Manitoban thing )
 
Finder
#17
I enjoyed reading about the Red River rebellion in university. It's too bad none of the rebellions succeeded. Though I'm sure if they had we'd be apart of the USA right now. lol
 
BitWhys
#18
I'll have to check if Riel had already told the US to piss off. Wasn't going to happen. The aboriginal were already on to the US. He was looking out for the Metis. He won his part. Its in court.
 
Finder
#19
Yeah but all three Rebellions had some ties to the USA. As all three rebellions were more or less republican movements and the nearist republic was the USA which hated the British and thus were a natural ally to any Republican movement of it's time in Canada.

Generally the Early USA was a pretty lose confederation of states and more or less each state was generally a republic of it's own. I'm sure the USA could have gottien the Metis Republic to join. Remember after the first Reil Rebellion, Reil ran south into the USA as well.

I support all three rebellions in Canada but I do not doubt if they had succeeded that they would have joined the USA for protection against the British.

I think the USA would have been seen as the lesser of two evils at that time. However you are right that the native people in the USA were no friends of the republicans.
 
BitWhys
#20
Riel was not commited to the USA. In, maybe, but not to.

Riel was commited to the church and he told them a thing or too as well.

Where the hell else was he going to run? Sasketchewan? Nothing but trouble there. By that time they had already figured out the hunt migrates North.
 
Finder
#21
Though I could say there is no conclusive evidence saying he would not have excepted aid from the USA if successful, I think there is no evidence saying he was anti-American, nor the idea's of the the American revolution.
 
BitWhys
#22
Canada WAS the ideas of the American Revolution. Just ****ing cold out.

Scots ran the joint.
 
Finder
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys

Canada WAS the ideas of the American Revolution. Just *censored* cold out.

Scots ran the joint.


I don't understand what you are saying again there.

I don't think "Canada Was the Ideas of the American revolution". The only reason we even really fought for those idea's in upper Canada was the influx of the called "late loyalists" from the USA.
 
Daz_Hockey
#24
perhaps the irish should have scotland too then finder? considering the scotti tribe are irish....nah that arguement is about as relevant as chucking every whit american off the continent and giving it back to the indians as the "united tribes of america", nope not gonna happen.

as I say, the problem I have with either side is they ARE BOTH INCREADIBLY subjective even when they arnt trying to be, you just did it with your "united ireland" rubbish, exactly how united was ireland before this eh?, not very, if they were theyd have a co-heisive dfence against the marauding english...nah youve slipped up my friend, aint gonna happen, what are you gonna do? physically remove the protestant majority?, wont happen, the world wont let that happen I'm afraid.

if anything, northern ireland will become it's own country, plain nd simple, while I am not a loyalist, or a unionist, I understand both sides, the unionists seem to want to stir up trouble with marhes, throw the fact their on "british" soil at the faces of the republicans, but they'll never change, as I say, go to Glasgow, you'll find that out.

And the republicans, well, they seem to be ignoring the fact that the other party are human beings, and are infact in the majority, calling for a united ireland when the majority dont want it, these ideas usually being whipped up by irish nationals abroad, I'm sorry it wont happen, not without genocide, want that on your hands do you?, besides, it'll all be a united states of europe soon anyways
 
Finder
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_Hockey

perhaps the irish should have scotland too then finder? considering the scotti tribe are irish....nah that arguement is about as relevant as chucking every whit american off the continent and giving it back to the indians as the "united tribes of america", nope not gonna happen.

as I say, the problem I have with either side is they ARE BOTH INCREADIBLY subjective even when they arnt trying to be, you just did it with your "united ireland" rubbish, exactly how united was ireland before this eh?, not very, if they were theyd have a co-heisive dfence against the marauding english...nah youve slipped up my friend, aint gonna happen, what are you gonna do? physically remove the protestant majority?, wont happen, the world wont let that happen I'm afraid.

if anything, northern ireland will become it's own country, plain nd simple, while I am not a loyalist, or a unionist, I understand both sides, the unionists seem to want to stir up trouble with marhes, throw the fact their on "british" soil at the faces of the republicans, but they'll never change, as I say, go to Glasgow, you'll find that out.

And the republicans, well, they seem to be ignoring the fact that the other party are human beings, and are infact in the majority, calling for a united ireland when the majority dont want it, these ideas usually being whipped up by irish nationals abroad, I'm sorry it wont happen, not without genocide, want that on your hands do you?, besides, it'll all be a united states of europe soon anyways

No but a lot of Scottish settlers live in Northern Ireland! If you have ever listened to a word I have said in the past I have never said that the Irish should ever invade other nations like that of the British did to them. Heavens knows what the British the masters of imperialism would most likely cry.

Anyhow, my views on the Scotts are pretty good. I think they are doing a good job with there government and if they chose to stay in the United Kingdom thats up to them. They has self determination currently I would say, and I think you would agree with that as well. The Welsh also have a certain degree of self determination as well but not to the extent of the Scotts.
 
Daz_Hockey
#26
Figure of speech my man, not a literal suggestion that the irish in any way claim scotland, far from it. See that's also where it becomes hazy, Scotland was ruled by the Picts not the irish scotti's, thats just my point.

What EXACTLY is imperialism anyhow?, do you know who ACTUALLY did most of the colonisation?. The chance was there, Britain took it, so it happened after a consorted effort by the english to beat the irish......thats war my man, winner takes the spoils, Britain won, Ireland lost get over it.

as you will surely know it was mostly scottish and irish settlers that made up the bulk of the whites in the british empire any way. I just will never understand, you blaitantly were not born then, neither I, we are all different countries now, configurations change, why still beat the english with a stick which, frankly is only as a result of your subjective veiws any way.

Just an oppressed view, would the irish think badly if they were the british? no.....or if they were an outside party of the time?....probably not also, because you must respect that during that time britain was doing something RIGHT, maybe you may not think so, nor history, but it was right at the time.

but finally, please stop using this "british masters of imperialism" we arnt like that anymore, like the germans arnt Nazis, it's offensive, and quite obviously a fair number of the supossed "oppressed" nationals do not agree with you neither.........strangly it only ever seems to be exhiled irish people, and as I say, I dont class Britains rule over ireland as anything wrong, we simply saw it as uniting these isles
 
Colpy
Conservative
#27
Quote:

No but a lot of Scottish settlers live in Northern Ireland! If you have ever listened to a word I have said in the past I have never said that the Irish should ever invade other nations like that of the British did to them. Heavens knows what the British the masters of imperialism would most likely cry.

Anyhow, my views on the Scotts are pretty good. I think they are doing a good job with there government and if they chose to stay in the United Kingdom thats up to them. They has self determination currently I would say, and I think you would agree with that as well. The Welsh also have a certain degree of self determination as well but not to the extent of the Scotts

Yeah, Presbyterian Scots were settled in Ireland on plantations to keep the "wild Irish" in line. This was especially prevalent in the North, which was once the most rebellious area of Ireland. Indeed, the area around Dublin was known as "the Pale", and was considered civilized under British control. The area outside that was "beyond the Pale" or completely out of control.

The plantation Scots did a pretty good job in the north, considering civilized Dublin is now republican, and the north stays more British than Britain.

BTW, those Protestant plantation Scots would include some of my ancestors.........
 
Finder
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

Quote:

No but a lot of Scottish settlers live in Northern Ireland! If you have ever listened to a word I have said in the past I have never said that the Irish should ever invade other nations like that of the British did to them. Heavens knows what the British the masters of imperialism would most likely cry.

Anyhow, my views on the Scotts are pretty good. I think they are doing a good job with there government and if they chose to stay in the United Kingdom thats up to them. They has self determination currently I would say, and I think you would agree with that as well. The Welsh also have a certain degree of self determination as well but not to the extent of the Scotts

Yeah, Presbyterian Scots were settled in Ireland on plantations to keep the "wild Irish" in line. This was especially prevalent in the North, which was once the most rebellious area of Ireland. Indeed, the area around Dublin was known as "the Pale", and was considered civilized under British control. The area outside that was "beyond the Pale" or completely out of control.

The plantation Scots did a pretty good job in the north, considering civilized Dublin is now republican, and the north stays more British than Britain.

BTW, those Protestant plantation Scots would include some of my ancestors.........


Same here, my father is a Limey, plus my Grandmother is a Orange Northern Irish Women and the rest of my family more or less Green.
 
Finder
#29
Anyhow for anyone who has been to the republic, British or otherwise they can seee Sectarian violance, well, just isn't there. British and American (as well as some Irish) Pop Culture is everywhere. If Northern Ireland joined the Republic the fears of the Orange men would not come true. BUT as they force the violance in the north they would most likely try become worse then they are now.

If the Orange men and there like would grow up and let an Seculer Irish Republic form there would be no fears of Prot repression.
 
Blackleaf
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Finder

Thats the good thing about my people, the Greens or the Irish Catholics and Republicans is you might get us once but we learn fast and we blow your heads off the next time you try to f with us.

What are you? A terrorist supporter?
 

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