No compromise in free speech debate

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
I’m a prof at Wilfrid Laurier University who supports free speech.


I’m not the only one. I’m part of a group who, in the wake of the Lindsay Shepherd affair, launched a petition calling on Laurier to adopt the “Chicago Statement”— a policy that ensures maximum freedom of expression on campus. In response, the university announced the formation of a task force to recommend a policy on freedom of expression. I decline to serve on that task force because it will fail and its members’ time will be wasted. I view the task force as ill-conceived, or worse, democratic window dressing.
It will fail because one side cannot compromise and the other side will not.


Compromised free speech is simply the negation of the right itself, and so an impossible concession. The other side, social justice advocates, are not interested in free speech as it is conventionally understood. Rather, they are engaged in a revolution to tear-down established hierarchies. This is evident if you have been following the campus free speech debate over the last two years (i.e., Yale, Missouri, Evergreen State, etc.).


American social scientist Jonathan Haidt concludes that a major change has occurred. Many universities no longer view the pursuit of truth as their primary goal; instead, the social justice goal of protecting victim groups has become the priority. He argues that the two goals are incompatible. There is no compromise: Universities must choose one or the other.


The senior university leadership has clearly indicated their allegiance. When announcing the formation of the task force, the WLU president purposely tempered her support by warning that commitments to free speech must be balanced against “our institutional values of diversity and inclusion.”


Notwithstanding this institutional bias, the premise of the task force is flawed. You cannot combine free speech and social justice advocates on a task force and expect a compromise. As Mark Steyn likes to say, if you combine ice cream and feces, the mixture is apt to taste more like the latter than the former.


And to be clear, the free speech position is already a compromise. The Chicago Statement prohibits speech that “violates the law, is threatening, harassing, or defamatory, or invades substantial privacy or confidentiality interests” and acknowledges that the university may regulate speech so that it is not disruptive. Any further qualification just restricts what can be said.


The social justice perspective will not compromise because it isn’t interested in free speech as a means of discovering truth. This is clear from the public statements of the justice advocates. In the leaked Shepherd audio, her professor is heard to say that some ideas are “not up for debate” and the neutral airing of both sides of an argument “is kind of the problem.” The Rainbow Centre at Laurier went straight to ad hominems and accused free speech advocates of being transphobic. A Laurier sociologist wrote that he wants to know who is abusing free speech — as if it is a tool of the oppressor.


When it comes to the task force on free expression, does my university president truly believe a compromise will be reached if both perspectives are allowed equal representation? I think she knows better.


She need only look to the example of UBC. Faculty there spent the fall crafting a statement on free expression. The last sentence is key: “Freedom of expression can only thrive constructively when accompanied by other rights, including the equality rights of equity, diversity, and inclusion.”


My university top brass knows that this task force is doomed to fail. That is, they know it won’t lead to any changes in the status quo. I suppose that’s their hope; it’s certainly the hope of many of my colleagues who feel censorship is a noble principle.


If real change is to come to my campus, it will likely have to rely on students to push the issue — students who are willing to follow the example of Lindsay Shepherd.


OPINION: No compromise in free speech debate | Toronto Sun
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
3
36
is this about the pronouns again?

You don't need to worry about it. There is nobody who will speak out in public for it. Anyone who has done so has received death threats from your peeps
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
is this about the pronouns again?

You don't need to worry about it. There is nobody who will speak out in public for it. Anyone who has done so has received death threats from your peeps

Oh Bullshyte.

It is in human rights legislation, and Shepherd was told quite clearly she was in violation of that legislation by her professors. Correct or not, these fascist idiots used the legislation to shut destroy even the neutral airing of the debate.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
3
36
you will not get anyone in academia to go anywhere and debate this topic on the pro side.

the alt right has made sure of it

that is what freedom of speech as all about. its about shutting down the opposition.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
55,433
6,998
113
Washington DC
For maximum freedom of speech, his students should show up for class nekkid and sing The Ballad of Eskimo Nell at the top of their voices until his classtime is op.
 

Angstrom

Hall of Fame Member
May 8, 2011
10,659
0
36
you will not get anyone in academia to go anywhere and debate this topic on the pro side.

the alt right has made sure of it

that is what freedom of speech as all about. its about shutting down the opposition.

Has the left retreated to their safe spaces on their training wheel decked government issued bicycles?
 
Last edited:

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
3
36
What?

Do you news...at all?

Universities are a place of debate....should be.

Instead they have now become a place of wimps who can't debate.

It's not that hard and guess what....sometimes....oh dear...sometimes you may be wrong....oh the horror.

Glad my kids are going to trade school.
your kids going to trade school makes complete sense.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
you will not get anyone in academia to go anywhere and debate this topic on the pro side.

the alt right has made sure of it

that is what freedom of speech as all about. its about shutting down the opposition.

Really?

Funny, name me one instance in which the "alt-right" (defined as anyone to the right of Che Guevara) has shut down a speaker?

your kids going to trade school makes complete sense.

Yep.

Universities have become a waste of time.

Outside STEM and medicine.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
i just have

this whole c16 debate.

Complete nonsense.

The Ontario human rights code on TG, and C-16 are both law.

And the right has tried to debate it, only to find that even showing the debate is forbidden.

Give your head a shake.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
3
36
No academic will ever debate on the pro side of this gender pronoun things because of people just like you.

Same reason we cannot debate any of the controversial stories on CBC news.

People like you.

So congratulations. You have managed to control the media and silence your opposition.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
No academic will ever debate on the pro side of this gender pronoun things because of people just like you.

Same reason we cannot debate any of the controversial stories on CBC news.

People like you.

So congratulations. You have managed to control the media and silence your opposition.

Because of people like me?

I'm not rioting in the streets.

I'm not pulling fire alarms or shouting down speakers.

I'm not attacking people attending debates.

And I most certainly have never advocated violence against anyone for expressing a political viewpoint.

I don't punch Nazis, or Marxists even, nor do I encourage people to do so.

That is all your lefty buddies.

Now, I call...........lay'em out brother.......a list of left wing speakers shut down by right wing protests.

What I confess to doing is calling out idiots and liars, and telling them they are idiots and liars, and they really should STFU because they are making fools of themselves.

That is because "progressives" are not happy free, as that indicates others who disagree might be free. Idiot progressives will not be satisfied until we are all gagged and in chains in our safe spaces.

You people are the most counter productive, self destructive bunch of intellectual incompetents that one could imagine.

Useful idiots.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
3
36
Because of people like me?

I'm not rioting in the streets.

I'm not pulling fire alarms or shouting down speakers.

I'm not attacking people attending debates.

And I most certainly have never advocated violence against anyone for expressing a political viewpoint.

I don't punch Nazis, or Marxists even, nor do I encourage people to do so.

That is all your lefty buddies.

Now, I call...........lay'em out brother.......a list of left wing speakers shut down by right wing protests.

What I confess to doing is calling out idiots and liars, and telling them they are idiots and liars, and they really should STFU because they are making fools of themselves.

That is because "progressives" are not happy free, as that indicates others who disagree might be free. Idiot progressives will not be satisfied until we are all gagged and in chains in our safe spaces.

You people are the most counter productive, self destructive bunch of intellectual incompetents that one could imagine.

Useful idiots.
it is your team who are responsible for stifling this and pretty much all debate now. No reasonable person can present an argument to you without being assailed and villainized and threatened. The result is that they simply do not speak in public forums.

you won't find any Canadian academic step forward to explain the pro side of this debate. you won;t find a Canadian institution they will advise them to.

the last lady who did teaches at a BC university and thought she would go on a radio show and explain the theory. She is now basically in hiding with the university taking care of her social media accounts, because her life has been threatened which is only one of the bad things she gets sent now.

that is the state of free speech in Canada - like in America the right has organised into a highly effective social media storm troop and prevents free speech as a matter of policy.

then low level pack members like yourself complain about free speech and how the lefties are forcing the wrong pronouns down your throat.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
it is your team who are responsible for stifling this and pretty much all debate now. No reasonable person can present an argument to you without being assailed and villainized and threatened. The result is that they simply do not speak in public forums.

you won't find any Canadian academic step forward to explain the pro side of this debate. you won;t find a Canadian institution they will advise them to.

the last lady who did teaches at a BC university and thought she would go on a radio show and explain the theory. She is now basically in hiding with the university taking care of her social media accounts, because her life has been threatened which is only one of the bad things she gets sent now.

that is the state of free speech in Canada - like in America the right has organised into a highly effective social media storm troop and prevents free speech as a matter of policy.

then low level pack members like yourself complain about free speech and how the lefties are forcing the wrong pronouns down your throat.



Interesting, you complain that you aren't able to debate anything, and yet, once again, you don't address a single point that Colpy has made.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
No academic will ever debate on the pro side of this gender pronoun things because of people just like you.

Same reason we cannot debate any of the controversial stories on CBC news.

People like you.

So congratulations. You have managed to control the media and silence your opposition.

You and Flossy should just accept that you're wrong and that you hate freedom of expression. Then you both (along with the Trumpites) can move along and let the adults have a discussion
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
it is your team who are responsible for stifling this and pretty much all debate now. No reasonable person can present an argument to you without being assailed and villainized and threatened. The result is that they simply do not speak in public forums.

you won't find any Canadian academic step forward to explain the pro side of this debate. you won;t find a Canadian institution they will advise them to.

the last lady who did teaches at a BC university and thought she would go on a radio show and explain the theory. She is now basically in hiding with the university taking care of her social media accounts, because her life has been threatened which is only one of the bad things she gets sent now.

that is the state of free speech in Canada - like in America the right has organised into a highly effective social media storm troop and prevents free speech as a matter of policy.

then low level pack members like yourself complain about free speech and how the lefties are forcing the wrong pronouns down your throat.

it is your team who are responsible for stifling this and pretty much all debate now.

Bullshyte

No reasonable person can present an argument to you without being assailed....

What;s your point? If you are an idiot, I tell you.

So what?

......... and villainized.....

Not even sure what that means, but I usually accuse people of being stupid, not evil.

........and threatened.

Bullshyte. Find one person I've threatened. People that threaten people from behind an anonymous keyboard are by definition cowards and idiots both,

The result is that they simply do not speak in public forums.

Such freedom fighters! (sarcasm) I mean.......Really? Your point is that these idiots can not deal with their ideas being challenged, so we should shut up?

Such babies. (not sarcasm)

So, you are saying the right is not intimidated by riots, threats, violence, and institutional attempts to silence them..........but the left doesn't try because they can't handle having their ideas challenged?

Then guess who has the better ideas?

BTW, you still can't give me a list of left wing speakers shut down by right wing violence.

Because we understand free speech, and don't do that.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
BTW, you still can't give me a list of left wing speakers shut down by right wing violence.

Because we understand free speech, and don't do that.

You'll never get any kind of list on this, even if one existed.

Buddy argues in the realm of ideology and what should be rather than what is

At best, it's theoretical but more accurately, it's really nothing more than fantasy
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
108,904
11,186
113
Low Earth Orbit
It's not free space unless I say it's free speech and you are responsible for what you say but I'm not because I'm an SJW and you are a job holding self-reliant Conservative - Flosshole
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,336
113
Vancouver Island
it is your team who are responsible for stifling this and pretty much all debate now. No reasonable person can present an argument to you without being assailed and villainized and threatened. The result is that they simply do not speak in public forums.

you won't find any Canadian academic step forward to explain the pro side of this debate. you won;t find a Canadian institution they will advise them to.

the last lady who did teaches at a BC university and thought she would go on a radio show and explain the theory. She is now basically in hiding with the university taking care of her social media accounts, because her life has been threatened which is only one of the bad things she gets sent now.

that is the state of free speech in Canada - like in America the right has organised into a highly effective social media storm troop and prevents free speech as a matter of policy.

then low level pack members like yourself complain about free speech and how the lefties are forcing the wrong pronouns down your throat.

You are deluded.It is the extreme left that hates and fights against free speach.
 

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
10,607
5,250
113
Olympus Mons
No academic will ever debate on the pro side of this gender pronoun things because of people just like you.
No, they won't debate the pro side because they are not morons. Funfact. Mammals come in two genders; male and female. And just in case you weren't aware, humans are mammals. Despite your pathetic lamentations, the science of biology and evolution clearly show that there are only two genders in the mammalian world. You see Hoid, you're not promoting tolerance or acceptance or defending free speech, what you're doing is helping to promote sociopathy. The morons at the universities who are promoting this shit are pseudo-academics. While the universities themselves have become nothing more than for-profit enterprises.

"Oh, I'm ageless and genderless." Yeah, and f*cking witless too.