Proof of Christianity (Proof Of Christianity)

alasdair
#1
Hi

Please take a look at the following website for proof of Christianity:

www.worldends.co.uk

Proof for Christianity
Evidence for God
The lost art of spiritual healing
How to follow the true faith
Solving poverty

With best wishes,
Alasdair
 
Sassylassie
#2
Oh my where did Jesus go? I love the Snip part.
 
gc
#3
There is no "proof" on that website. I think your definition of "proof" is a little off.
I could post a proof for the non-existance of God if you'd like.
 
alasdair
#4
Take a look at www.worldends.co.uk/english/archive8.pdf first.
Last edited by Andem; Oct 1st, 2006 at 02:24 PM..
 
Dexter Sinister
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by alasdair View Post

This is proof positive.

Your standards of evidence are very low. There's no proof of anything in there, it's just another tortured interpretation of the apocalyptic passages in Daniel and Revelation. That one's no better or more convincing than any of the dozens of others I've encountered.

Go to a good library or used book shop and try to locate a copy of Asimov's Guide to the Bible. It'll set the proper historical context for those things. For instance, about Daniel, Asimov writes: "It was going to be the writer's purpose to denounce the Seleucid Empire, which in the second century B.C was persecuting Judaism ferociously. To avoid charges of rebellion and treason, the writer had to refrain from attacking the Seleucids directly. By putting the book into a period of past disaster, he could attack them indirectly. He could make Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar surrogate villains for Syria and the Seleucids and his readers would know what he meant while the overlords might have trouble proving it."

You're never going to make sense of the Bible without understanding the historical context in which it was written. All you'll be able to do is produce more of the flimsy and ill-informed arguments such as are in that .pdf file you linked to.
 
alasdair
#6
It is actually an interpretation of most of the Bible, not just the traditionally prophetic texts. Did you read all of it?
 
Dexter Sinister
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by alasdair View Post

Did you read all of it?

Of course not. I read enough to pick up the stuff about Daniel and Revelations, and since there seemed no reason to think the quality of the argument was going to get any better as it went on, I gave up.
 
alasdair
#8
Well, I've clearly got a tough job then if everyone gives the same response as you! I've been put on the Earth, surrounded by people following the external form of the Christian faith, and have to teach them the true faith in order to eliminate the overwhelming evil in the world and poverty too! So it might be worthwhile for you to look at the whole site (to save your soul, assuming that you think church and hymns have anything to do with the true Christian faith?).
 
Andem
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by alasdair View Post

Well, I've clearly got a tough job then if everyone gives the same response as you! I've been put on the Earth, surrounded by people following the external form of the Christian faith, and have to teach them the true faith in order to eliminate the overwhelming evil in the world and poverty too! So it might be worthwhile for you to look at the whole site (to save your soul, assuming that you think church and hymns have anything to do with the true Christian faith?).

You also put yourself on this web site to spam members with your ideas, not to discuss them.
 
alasdair
#10
They aren't my ideas...
 
Said1
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by alasdair View Post

They aren't my ideas...

Hahahahaha. Arf.
 
Dexter Sinister
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by alasdair View Post

I've been put on the Earth, surrounded by people following the external form of the Christian faith, and have to teach them the true faith in order to eliminate the overwhelming evil in the world and poverty too!

Um... okay, so who exactly do you think you are? If you're really that important, and you really do have the truth, surely there's some Biblical prophecy that refers to you. And what makes you think you have the truth of things and nobody else does?

Just so's you know, I'm an unrepentent old atheist, and you're highly unlikely to be able to convince me you have the truth of anything, unless you have some absolutely startling and extraordinary claims I've never encountered before, and the evidence and reasoning to back them up. What I've read so far at your links strongly suggests you don't have any of those things.
Last edited by Dexter Sinister; Oct 2nd, 2006 at 12:25 AM..
 
feronia
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by alasdair View Post

Well, I've clearly got a tough job then if everyone gives the same response as you! I've been put on the Earth, surrounded by people following the external form of the Christian faith, and have to teach them the true faith in order to eliminate the overwhelming evil in the world and poverty too! So it might be worthwhile for you to look at the whole site (to save your soul, assuming that you think church and hymns have anything to do with the true Christian faith?).


Trying to force your faith on others isn't Christian. According to Jesus he told the disciples not to force their ways on the people they were missionaries to. He said if they did not listen leave them and as you walk away dust the sand off their feet and never look back.
 
alasdair
#14
Well that's a shame. The site is not spam, and others may wish to look at it. It is the genuine apocalypse. www.worldends.co.uk
 
Said1
#15


Quote:

Luck
Luck is the word after Lucifer in the English dictionary.


Spooky. I never noticed that before.


 
humanbeing
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by DexterSinister

...Go to a good library or used book shop and try to locate a copy of Asimov's Guide to the Bible...

Also available at the link below, for free:

http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3530316/...ete_Asimov.pdf

The [almost] complete works of Isaac Asimov. Awesome stuff. 4000 pages of the dude.

If anyone needs a hand on using torrents, just ask me and I will help.

btw, if you ain't big on reading off a monitor, or don't wanna print a bunch of pages, then Dexter is right: you will often find a half dozen books of his at a time on sale at a used book store. Then of course, the library is always good for stuff too. No shortage of his books anywhere you go, as far as I can tell.
Last edited by humanbeing; Oct 8th, 2006 at 11:11 AM..
 
alasdair
#17
There are no coincidences. Luck is next to Lucifer, fate is next to fatal. An example of a very convincing proof (ten million to one) on the site is this:


Taking just two instances of the number of the beast 616:

616 years between the birth of Jesus and the revelation that Muhammad received

Verse 61:6 in the Koran quoting Ahmed as coming after Jesus.

These are just about as promenent positions for 616 as you can get.

If you assume that they are random, what is the probability that the both occured?

Say Islam could have formed anywhere between 200AD and 1800AD. There are 6234 verses in the Koran.

Therefore, the probability of occurance is

(1/1600)*(1/6234)=0.0000001

or one in ten million
 
Dexter Sinister
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by alasdair View Post


Therefore, the probability of occurance is

(1/1600)*(1/6234)=0.0000001

or one in ten million

Your understanding of probability theory is evidently about as limited as your knowledge of the Bible's historical context. Besides, things with one in ten million or worse odds against them happen all the time. Odds against winning at Lotto 6/49, for instance, are about 14 million to one, but people win it regularly. Your argument's meaningless.
 
alasdair
#19
The argument isn't meaningless - it is exactly as stated: from just two elements of evidence you can show that the likelihood of both occuring by random chance is one in 10 million. In combination with all the other proof on the website, Christianity is shown to be an absolute certainty, which is of course the nature of the apocalypse.
 
Dexter Sinister
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by alasdair View Post

The argument isn't meaningless - it is exactly as stated: from just two elements of evidence you can show that the likelihood of both occuring by random chance is one in 10 million. In combination with all the other proof on the website, Christianity is shown to be an absolute certainty, which is of course the nature of the apocalypse.

Yeah well... There are others who will tell you, with proofs no better than what you've offered, that the number of the beast is 666, not 616. In fact most people who know anything about it would probably tell you it's 666. The KJ version is pretty clear about that: Rev 13:18. "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." A score is 20, threescore is thus 60, so the number is 666. According to Asimov's guide, some old manuscripts of Revelation do have 616, but the weight of evidence is that the number is 666. You have to understand that right up to Medieval times it was common to use letters of the alphabet to also signify numbers. No doubt you've seen Roman numerals; the Greek and Hebrew languages assigned numerical values to every letter, not just the few the Romans used for numbers, so all words in Greek and Hebrew would have numerical value. Jewish mystics would naturally assume the words of scripture had numerical significance as well, and spend a lot of time trying to analyze such things.

Apart from that, Jesus' birth year is not known with certainty. It isn't even known with any certainty that he was actually a historical person, there's almost no Bible-independent documentation of his existence. There is I think one mention in the writings of Josephus, who was citing secondary sources. As far as I know, there's no mention of him in the Roman records of the period covering his life, ministry, and death, and the Romans were almost as fanatical about record-keeping as the Nazis were. Moreover, why would you connect the number of the beast specifically with verse 61:6 of the Koran? Why not verse 6:16 of the Koran, or verse 6:16 of any book of the Bible that has at least six chapters and the sixth chapter has a 16th verse? I'll tell you why: because those don't work for the pointless argument you're trying to make. You're engaging in selective thinking, picking facts that appear to suit your purposes and ignoring any that don't. If the number of the beast is indeed 616, then why would there be any particular significance to it written as 61:6 or 6:16 and used as in index into some other document? You're not making sense. You're going to have to produce verse 6:16 of the Koran and verses 6:16 of every book of the Old and New Testaments and explain how and why they do or do not bear upon your argument. Until you do that, I'm calling BS on you.

Give it up alasdair. You cannot prove the truth of Christianity, or any other religious belief system, it's a logical impossibility, as you'd know if you understood anything about the nature of evidence and how to think clearly.
 
alasdair
#21
I challenge you to find any better evidence than that which is presented on the website! Clealy proving Christianity is not an impossibility - Jesus certainly did it when he was here. Why should it be impossible now?
 
EastSideScotian
#22
Youshould know that being a False Prophet is a sin. Alot of your Knowlage of the bible is counfussed, and their are simpler versions of the End times which are much more understandable.

Also You clearly lack the Knowlage of the Bible to argue it with Athiests. Jesus didnt waste his time Argueing with non-beleaivers, he would pray for them. Hence that is all you can do, weather they except it or not. Jesus also would not force his Views on others. The Bible wants us to live as best we can, and to emelate Jesus as best we can. Regardless of who we can convert in our wake. we convert through our actions and everyday life. Preach the Gosphel if you are asked, or if their is interest, preaching to those with closed minds, will get you no where, while you can preach to those who yurn for the knowlage.

You need to stop looking so deeply into Internet inturpations which are reading to far into things, and forget the main message, Love, Be loved, and through this you will spread the word of God.

You speak of true Christanity, their is none, their can only be True Spirtuality, By understanig God, his teachings, Through all spirtual Texts.


also 616 is the Mark of the beast. http://www.religionnewsblog.com/1113...evalued-to-616
Some feel that way anyway.
One of the many missinturpations ofthe bible, which cause havoc. This is why the bible shoulf be open to your own inturpition, not others, IE preachers, and religious figures. Take form it what you can, and make of it what you will. Time has twisted the text, so thats all we can do, it make of it what we can, and intueted on our own.
 
Dexter Sinister
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by alasdair View Post

I challenge you to find any better evidence than that which is presented on the website!

Better evidence for what? I'm not the one making the claims, you are, making the case is your job. Numerical coincidences don't constitute evidence.
 
alasdair
#24
If it's a numerical coincidence, there is only a one in ten million chance for it to happen. The chances are that it would not have happened. But it did. And there's a huge amount of more evidence on the site. It is not only numerical, but also linguistic, in nature and even in the way the land masses are arranged (ever noticed how Florida looks like the head of a snake? - if you live in Florida please see http://www.worldends.co.uk/english/archive8.pdf urgently). The evidence is everywhere!
 
Said1
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by alasdair View Post

If it's a numerical coincidence, there is only a one in ten million chance for it to happen. The chances are that it would not have happened. But it did. And there's a huge amount of more evidence on the site. It is not only numerical, but also linguistic, in nature and even in the way the land masses are arranged (ever noticed how Florida looks like the head of a snake? - if you live in Florida please see http://www.worldends.co.uk/english/archive8.pdf urgently). The evidence is everywhere!

More bible code. I bet I could find my name if I ran the program often enough.
 
EastSideScotian
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by alasdair View Post

If it's a numerical coincidence, there is only a one in ten million chance for it to happen. The chances are that it would not have happened. But it did. And there's a huge amount of more evidence on the site. It is not only numerical, but also linguistic, in nature and even in the way the land masses are arranged (ever noticed how Florida looks like the head of a snake? - if you live in Florida please see http://www.worldends.co.uk/english/archive8.pdf urgently). The evidence is everywhere!

Nice to see you ignored my post, and the people on this forms Distaste for Religion.....Please mess off, your not doing Gods work your just argueing, and thats not getting you anywhere, evryone has their mind made up already, wether you or I agree with what they think it is a waste of your time.

Internet Crusadeing is not how you win Souls for God. Nor is annoying people.
 
alasdair
#27
Neither is following the outward form of the Christian faith - or pursuading others to do the same. See 2 Timothy 3:1-9. As for "Internet Crusading", the internet is the most convenient place to put the apocalypse so that everyone can see it.
 
EastSideScotian
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by alasdair View Post

Neither is following the outward form of the Christian faith - or pursuading others to do the same. See 2 Timothy 3:1-9. As for "Internet Crusading", the internet is the most convenient place to put the apocalypse so that everyone can see it.

So you would rather use fear tactics to gain followers, than Good action, and Spirtuality to make people follow the lord?

Id rather produce true followers, than people who are scared into it by the end times. Iam sure God would see it that way too, because he would know the heart of the people, would he not, and people who claim to beleaive in him because they are scared of the end times, may not be what he looks for.

And as for Proof of Christanity, yea its real, its religion....You must mean Proof of God, in which you need fiath to consider it thruth...whichclearly you dont understand...Faith not Fear.
 
Dexter Sinister
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by alasdair View Post

If it's a numerical coincidence, there is only a one in ten million chance for it to happen. The chances are that it would not have happened. But it did.

Nonsense. There are, as I tried to explain to you earlier, any number of things you can make the number 616 point to with at least as much logic as you showed in deciding it points to a particular verse in the Koran. Why, for instance, didn't you decide it points to 2 Kings 6:16? Because that one says, "And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them," which would be pretty difficult to twist into anything to do with the point you're trying to make. You just plucked that presumed connection out of nowhere because it suits your purposes. If you're going to build a coherent case, you first have to explain why 616 should be rewritten as 61:6 and points to a verse in the Koran, and second why it shouldn't be rewritten as 6:16 and doesn't point to any verse in the Old or New Testaments. And why doesn't it point to the 6th trigram of the 61st hexagram of the I Ching? Maybe it points to the 6th sign of the zodiac, and the 16th day of the month as defined by sun sign astrology? The possibilities are endless. You have to look at all the data, not just the stuff that you think supports your point of view. I'm still calling BS on you.

Your probability calculation could look even more impressive if you used the number of days rather than years between AD 200 and AD 1800. And why not? Presumably Jesus was born on a particular day, and Mohammed received his initial revelation on a particular day. Then you'll get a probability against it happening by chance well up in the billions instead of a mere one in ten million. In reality though, the probability of a new religion forming in any randomly chosen 1600 year period is pretty much a certainty, and the probability that some fantasy-prone mystical thinkers will find something significant linking it to things they want to believe in is an absolute certainty.
 
alasdair
#30
In answer to the first post - people need some motivation to act on poverty. If we just continue as we are, then we slide off the metaphorical cliff.

AS for the evidence argument - this is like saying "Well we found the criminal's DNA signature on the dead guy's jacket, but since we didn't find it on his shoes, or his trousers then we're going to have to discard the evidence." Your argument does not follow mathematical reasoning.
 

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