Is Canada ready for the coming electric vehicle revolution?


taxslave
#601
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Bragging? That would infer that I am in charge of the electric car revolution. I'm just pointing out that a few years ago electric cars were a novelty. Now every major car manufacturer has at least one model in the process of being built and dozens of minor companies have come out of the woodwork with their own electric versions.

As to cost - that is already being achieved through the process of mass production. Electric car prices are dropping an will continue to drop. In addition electric cars are cheaper to maintain and to fuel, so even if an electric car seems more expensive it probably isn't. This will be bad news for a lot of dealerships that rely on customers bringing their cars back for tune ups and oil changes - electric cars don't need either of those, but that is an unfortunate side-effect of change. There are winners and losers in every major technological change.

The Bottom Line On Electric Cars: They're Cheaper To Own

https://www.forbes.com/sites/constan.../#2afe66aa10b6


As for charging stations I doubt it will take very long for gas station owners to install charging systems once they realize there is a market for them. And there are already home charging systems available for electric cars so I don't really see a problem with making more of them.


As for subsidies I expect you realize the auto industry has always been subsidized as has the oil industry. In way way it makes sense to subsidize electric cars in order to cut down on pollution since internal combustion engines are a real health problem whether the auto industry wants to admit it or not. Cleaner air simply means healthier citizens and lower health care costs, fewer days of work missed, and so on.

So, when it comes to money and brains I would say that the real money is on electric cars.



Read my reply to IdRatherBeSkiing.

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Then way are home car chargers being sold? Changing the amperage level to handle electric cars isn't exactly rocket science. Here, you can get one from these guys.

https://www.plugndrive.ca/product/el...c30-nema-6-50/

What I am seeing so far as the electric cars is a lot of old fogey type opposition. In other worlds some people are so conservative they oppose electric vehicles because they simply can't handle change. The same anti-electric car arguments being trotted out were around 20 years ago, but guess what there are more electric cars than ever and more still one the way. It is a major technological revolution being pushed by improved electric engines, improved batteries, and a desire for cleaner air, and the improvements are far from over. There are at least a score of batteries currently being researched and I suspect that the electric motor will continue to become lighter and more powerful.

Just to give you an idea or how many potentially new batteries are on the horizon check this out.

Future batteries, coming soon: Charge in seconds, last months and power over the air


https://www.pocket-lint.com/gadgets/...r-over-the-air


Of course, I realize some of the ultra-conservatives don't trust articles from tech websites, but they do trust Forbes so then there is this one:

Samsung Battery Tech Breakthrough Could Revolutionize Smartphones And Electric Vehicles

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyl.../#6a79489e5a6f

Best you learn basic electricity before making yourself look so stupid.I'll give you a hint-amperage delivered is directly related to wire size. Now see if you can figure out where the problem lies.
 
petros
+1
#602
All electric and hybrids by all manufacturers combined equals 4 days of F150s production

They aren't cheaper to charge and maintain when battery life is 5 years and has a carbon foot print equal to 8 years of using gasoline.

Gasoline is 33% more efficient.

After 8 years you'll have to blow $200 on sparkplugs and sensors.

That is far cheaper than a $5000 battery.

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

All electric and hybrids by all manufacturers combined equals 4 days of F150s production

They aren't cheaper to charge and maintain when battery life is 5 years and has a carbon foot print equal to 8 years of using gasoline.

Gasoline is 33% more efficient.

After 8 years you'll have to blow $200 on sparkplugs and sensors.

That is far cheaper than a $5000 battery.

Peckerhoid
 
taxslave
#603
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

The lithium battery is not the end of the line. It is just the latest stop.

Battery technology is going to change the world and one of the ways it will do that is by redefining what oil is worth.

Well by your theories gas will be dirt cheap since there will be no market which of course makes gas or diesel that much more desirable.
 
petros
#604
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Well by your theories gas will be dirt cheap since there will be no market which of course makes gas or diesel that much more desirable.

Coal for graphene and graphite and of course steel is a solid investment.

Stellar. I started buying TSX venture coal mining companies last year

Up 40%.

5 X shares for less than a cup of coffee.
 
taxslave
#605
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Coal for graphene and graphite is a solid investment.

Stellar. I started buying TSX venture coal mining companies last year

Up 40%.

Metallurgical or thermal?
 
petros
+1
#606
Both and graphite.

Lignite that has had the humic acid removed can be used and the humic is in super high demand for agriculture.

It supercharges dirt in the first step of making soil.

Lignin is plant cells.

Shit, almost forgot the coal gas and captured solvent grade CO2 from processing lignite to graphite to graphene.
Last edited by petros; Mar 30th, 2018 at 09:03 PM..
 
Murphy
#607
Where do I get me some good, old fashioned leaded gas? With lemon.
 
petros
+1
#608
You can buy a can of tetrethyl lead at your local automotive performance shop.
 
captain morgan
+1
#609
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

Where do I get me some good, old fashioned leaded gas? With lemon.

Ahhh, the good ole days.

.. Now, just get a liter of gas down to around $0.40/liter and things will be grand
 
petros
#610
Labour costs have put any hopes of that to rest.

Shutdown prices hit yesterday. We are at $1.20L for name brand.

I bet they'd love to see that price in Vancouver.
 
captain morgan
#611
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

I bet they'd love to see that price in Vancouver.

Just wait until the first long weekend in the summer.

What with the trade conflict and the standard long weekend mark-up, it will take the better part of the day to cross into Bellingham to fuel up.
 
petros
#612
Just bypass the line by hitting the duty free at the Pacific Crossing and pay the taxes for the six pack. Takes all of 15 minutes.
 
captain morgan
#613
Good call
 
petros
#614
Quicker than PACE or Nexus.
 
captain morgan
#615
no doubt, but the funny part is that many folks will refuse to pay the duty from a cost perspective but will not consider the value of their time.
 
petros
+1
#616
Or idling for 3 hours in line with the AC on.
 
pgs
+1
#617
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Labour costs have put any hopes of that to rest.

Shutdown prices hit yesterday. We are at $1.20L for name brand.

I bet they'd love to see that price in Vancouver.

1.49 to 1.54 around Vancouver 1.39 in Hope yesterday and 1.29 in Kelowna..
 
spilledthebeer
#618
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Yet another problem the subsidized electric car crowd either glosses over or doesn't understand is the amount of amperage required for rapid charge stations. The vast majority of houses and all apartment buildings simply are not equipped with the required electrical supply to maintain rapid chargers. Quite probably in the majority of neighbourhoods the distribution system isn't adequate to have everyone on rapid charge at the same time.

Oh- so sorry- LIE-berals DO HAVE A PLAN for that charging requirement- they are going to get rich on the sales tax they charge for electricians to re-wire all manner of buildings! Think of all that work and all that revenue! Think of how busy city inspectors will be examining and approving those charging stations!

Why govt Hogs involved in electric car biz might be snowed under by the demand for their "services"- that would allow LIE-berals to hire even more civil service union Hogs because hey- the ENTIRE electrical system- from start to finish is now a LIE-beral slush fund!

LIE-berals jumped the shark in 2017 when they bought into that Yankee power generating corporation- the one that is STILL BURNING COAL- you know- that fuel that LIE-berals refuse to use in Ontari-owe! And even better- that Yankee power company that idiot LIE-berals bought into is in the middle of a massive pollution lawsuit- that they are slowly losing and the cleanup will cost billions!

Oh well- its only OUR MONEY they are wasting?
 
taxslave
+1
#619
Quote: Originally Posted by spilledthebeer View Post

Oh- so sorry- LIE-berals DO HAVE A PLAN for that charging requirement- they are going to get rich on the sales tax they charge for electricians to re-wire all manner of buildings! Think of all that work and all that revenue! Think of how busy city inspectors will be examining and approving those charging stations!

Why govt Hogs involved in electric car biz might be snowed under by the demand for their "services"- that would allow LIE-berals to hire even more civil service union Hogs because hey- the ENTIRE electrical system- from start to finish is now a LIE-beral slush fund!

LIE-berals jumped the shark in 2017 when they bought into that Yankee power generating corporation- the one that is STILL BURNING COAL- you know- that fuel that LIE-berals refuse to use in Ontari-owe! And even better- that Yankee power company that idiot LIE-berals bought into is in the middle of a massive pollution lawsuit- that they are slowly losing and the cleanup will cost billions!

Oh well- its only OUR MONEY they are wasting?

Still doesn't resolve the distribution problem. You can put as big of wires you want in the house but if the distribution system isn't up to the extra load there will be brownouts at best and equipment damage at worst.
 
JLM
#620
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Ahhh, the good ole days.

.. Now, just get a liter of gas down to around $0.40/liter and things will be grand

You mean $0.40 a gallon don't you?
 
captain morgan
#621
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Or idling for 3 hours in line with the AC on.

Yabut, that cold air directly combats global warming so it's actually good for the environment.

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Still doesn't resolve the distribution problem. You can put as big of wires you want in the house but if the distribution system isn't up to the extra load there will be brownouts at best and equipment damage at worst.

Bingo.

Infrastructure issues will include provincial, muni and residential in addition to sourcing a large enough supply (that is consistent) to power all of these wonderful initiatives.

The ecoweenies haven't thought that far ahead on the issue
 
petros
+2
#622
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

1.49 to 1.54 around Vancouver 1.39 in Hope yesterday and 1.29 in Kelowna..

Carbon tax goes up 1.2 cent tomorrow too.

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Yabut, that cold air directly combats global warming so it's actually good for the environment.



Bingo.

Infrastructure issues will include provincial, muni and residential in addition to sourcing a large enough supply (that is consistent) to power all of these wonderful initiatives.

The ecoweenies haven't thought that far ahead on the issue

SK started beefing up the grid 3 years ago in prep for alternative energy and the rapid growth. Tieing a shit load of inconsistent solar and wind along with NG peak plants is f-cking expensive.
 
taxslave
+3
#623
Just eyeballing prices. A Chevy Bolt stars at just under $45000. A Spark which is the ame platform but gas powered is $16000 & change. I can buy a lot of gas for $28000.
Last edited by taxslave; Mar 31st, 2018 at 10:27 AM..
 
Twin_Moose
+1
#624
Tesla in trouble: Massive recall, shares tank, and Musk's billions shrink

Quote:

Tesla is recalling almost half of all the vehicles the company has so far produced, after corroding bolts that could lead to the loss of power steering has forced the company to fix 123,000 of its Model S sedans. The service action comes at a particularly inopportune time for the California carmaker. Tesla's stock fell by one-third of its value in recent weeks as a result of a series of problems including continued production problems with the Model 3 sedan, financial trouble, and a fatal crash now being probed by federal regulators.
"Reality is setting in," said Joe Phillippi, head of AutoTrends Consulting, and a long-time Wall Street automotive analyst, as he warned that the sharp decline in Tesla stock might continue.
Time magazine reported that Tesla's billionaire CEO Elon Musk has lost 17 percent of his personal fortune just in the last month.
Though Tesla shares rebounded slightly on Thursday, they began tumbling in off-hour trading in the wake of the recall announcement. According to an e-mail sent by the company to owners, 123,000 Model S sedans built before April 2016 are equipped with steering bolts that could suffer from excess corrosion. In some cases they may crack or completely fail.
"There have been no injuries or accidents due to this component," Tesla said in the e-mail, though it did note that a failure could lead to a total loss of power assistance to steering. "This primarily makes the car harder to drive at low speeds and for parallel parking, but does not materially affect control at high speed, where only small steering wheel force is needed."
This marks the third time the Model S has been recalled since it first came to market. But the sedan and Tesla's Model X have been involved in several high-profile crashes.
That includes one in 2016 in which a former Navy SEAL was killed; federal safety regulators put some of the blame on the car's Autopilot system. Another incident potentially involving the semi-autonomous technology occurred earlier this year when a Tesla slammed into a firetruck on a freeway near Los Angeles. The National Transportation Safety Board is now also investigating a crash in which a driver was killed in a Model X earlier this month in Mountain View, California.
Though a faulty highway barrier is suspected of playing a role in the latest fatal crash, investors responded by sharply driving down the price of TSLA shares. At the closing bell on Thursday, the price stood at $266.13, down from a 52-week high of $389.61.
Overnight trading continued to trend downward after the steering wheel recall was announced.
There are plenty of other reasons for concern, said analyst Phillippi, notably including the ongoing struggles Tesla has faced ramping up output of the new Model 3 sedan. That product is critical to the long-term success of a company that has made money during only two quarters since going public.
Until recently, Tesla was buoyed by the sort of stock valuation normally reserved for tech companies like Google and Apple, but investors "were banking on increased earnings…once they got their manufacturing system fixed. It was going to be a no-brainer."
Making matters worse, current and former employees recently revealed that what Musk last year called "production hell" at the Tesla plant in Fremont, California has been made worse by serious quality problems with many of the parts and components needed for the Model 3.
Then, earlier this week, the Wall Street Journal reported that Tesla burned through $3.4 billion of a shrinking pot of cash last year, increasing investors' worries that it will either run out of cash or be forced to stage another equity offer this coming year.
Musk has tried to maintain Tesla's lofty reputation by focusing on future plans, including the electric Semi truck, pickup, and roadster models it is developing. But the flood of bad news has put a serious tarnish on the brand just as key competitors like Hyundai, Volkswagen, General Motors and others start bringing their own long-range models to market.

 
captain morgan
+2
#625
Hardly surprising when their cars spontaneously explode in flames
 
petros
+3
#626
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

Tesla in trouble: Massive recall, shares tank, and Musk's billions shrink

Bummer. Too bad Obama isn't around to pile on even more subsidies.

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Hardly surprising when their cars spontaneously explode in flames

The Taliban could use them. Instant IED. Just add water.
 
captain morgan
#627
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

The Taliban could use them. Instant IED. Just add water.

That was great... I lol'd!
 
captain morgan
+1
#628
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Just eyeballing prices. A Chevy Bolt stars at just under $45000. A Spark which is the ame platform but gas powered is $16000 & change. I can buy a lot of gas for $28000.

The mfgs love this EV craze, plenty of opportunity to fleece these true believers
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#629
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

As for charging stations I doubt it will take very long for gas station owners to install charging systems once they realize there is a market for them. And there are already home charging systems available for electric cars so I don't really see a problem with making more of them.

I don't see them popping up in gas stations anytime soon. Most gas stations are affiliates of oil companies and it is a bit of a conflict of interest for oil companies to make electric vehicles any easier to own. Can an electric vehicle be fully charged in 15 minutes? Any longer, it is an inconvenience (I am being generous, I fill my Toyota in under 5).


Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

As for subsidies I expect you realize the auto industry has always been subsidized as has the oil industry. In way way it makes sense to subsidize electric cars in order to cut down on pollution since internal combustion engines are a real health problem whether the auto industry wants to admit it or not. Cleaner air simply means healthier citizens and lower health care costs, fewer days of work missed, and so on.

So, when it comes to money and brains I would say that the real money is on electric cars.

Maybe eventually (50 or so years) but not in the near future. I also don't want to get into the tax break vs subsidy debate. It has been beaten to death. I think most people (aside from the rich few) look at the practicality of the car they are buying and right now this is not electric. Also in computing costs (fuel savings, etc.) in places like Ontario where electricity prices are through the roof, I wonder if that is factored into the savings equation?

I forgot to add this in my previous post, but another problem with electric vehicles (as anybody living in really code places knows) is that battery output really decreases when the temperature gets colder, as it is apt to do in Canada.

Now, I will ask you the same question I asked Flossy some time back (he answered), what type of car do you drive? Is it electric or gas powered?
 
taxslave
+1
#630
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

The mfgs love this EV craze, plenty of opportunity to fleece these true believers

I believe their time will come. Been watching hybrids for some years now and their milage/cost ratio just isn't there. Pure electric has the same problem and still have the range problem they had 100 years ago. If I was rich, lived in a city and never went more than a couple of miles I would seriously look at one.