Tesla's electric cars aren't as green as you might think


gopher
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

No, 1889. It was easier to fill the valleys than move mountains. The idea of improvements and levelling was nixed by Grover Cleveland. He wanted grapes.



I think he caused the Panic of 1893 and failed to improve the economy. That's why the Grange Movement and Coxey's Army opposed him so much. This, in turn, led to the re-emergence of the Republican party.

I'd rather have infrastructure improvement rather than grapes.
 
petros
+2
#32
My neighbour claims he has a 1.21 Gwh Flux Capacitor.

TKO

I hope he doesn't get shot by the CIA like the guy who invented to 70mpg carburetor.

Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

I'd rather have infrastructure improvement rather than grapes.

Traffic congestion is nasty. Even with electric cars, congestion is still an energy gobbler.
 
gopher
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post




Traffic congestion is nasty. Even with electric cars, congestion is still an energy gobbler.


they should have put a mass transit system in SF after the Civil War, not just cable cars
 
petros
#34
Like BART?
 
Murphy
#35
No. Tony Bennett.

[youtube]ryF9p-nqsWw[/youtube]
 
petros
#36
When he went back to find it, did it have HIV?
 
Murphy
+1
#37
No. He found a hole full of damaged electrons. And holes, as in SS holes one finds in silicone or germanium.

Hills and mountains are solid state. In that environment, holes move and electrons don't. Tony left his heart there, metaphorically speaking, to plug a hole.
 
Cliffy
#38
 
Bar Sinister
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss View Post

The guy thinks oil subsidies are a hoax.

That's the level of stupid you're dealing with here.



Keep knocking him out.

It's fun poking him. I don't expect him to ever admit he's wrong; even though by now even he should be able to read the writing in the wall. But then again he could be a flat-earther.

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Wow "may"... In those 22 years how many more internal combustion engines will hit the streets?



So...what do you owe me for your wager you lost?


I don't recall a wager about anything. But since mass produced cars are already on the streets I would guess you have already lost if that is what you are talking about.

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Solyndra

'Nuff said


Oil industry - enough said.

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Really? A different type of pollution is a better type of pollution?

How about less pollution? If there is a more destructive industry on earth than the extraction of fossil fuels I've yet to here about it.
 
Danbones
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

Yet some of you remain silent about the donkeys that pulled the trolley cars up those hills in San Francisco.

Who mourns for them?



No one really.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+2
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Tax credits. Same ones green energy gets.

Shhhh! Electric cars just make themselves on pixidust and lollypops with 0 impact to the environment. You are upsetting them with facts.
 
Jinentonix
+1
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Do you have any evidence that the mining of rare earths will be even remotely as filthy as the oil industry? I'm betting you don't. But I eagerly await a link to prove me wrong.

INCO! Ever heard of them? And all they mined was nickel. As was pointed out elsewhere, most of these rare earths are located in countries with less than favourable environmental laws. Up until around the mid-70s, the INCO facility in Sudbury was North America's single largest polluter. It alone accounted for 5% of North America's total air pollution. That doesn't take into account the toxic environment of its settling ponds that that regularly spilled their contents.

Meanwhile, China has estimated that at least 20% of their farmland is now toxic from heavy metal runoff. Runoff generated by the mining and refining of minerals for batteries, along with China's massive battery producing capacity.

Lithium batteries also have a nasty propensity for self-combustion. I've seen a load of lithium batteries take down a 747 in flight. Not to mention a number of spontaneous EV fires as well. Hell, even cell phones have "exploded" because the lithium batteries got too hot.

[QUOTE=Bar Sinister;2606398
How about less pollution? If there is a more destructive industry on earth than the extraction of fossil fuels I've yet to here about it.[/QUOTE]Agriculture. More specifically, animal agriculture. Even more specifically, an animal agriculture industry that exists primarily these days to feed the fast-food and chain restaurant industry. You combine that production chain and you not only have the most destructive industry on the planet, you also have the most wasteful industry on the planet.
 
captain morgan
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

from wiki:


The three largest fossil fuel subsidies were: Foreign tax credit ($15.3 billion) Credit for production of non-conventional fuels ($14.1 billion) Oil and Gas exploration and development expense ($7.1 billion)

all FAR more than Solyndra while the far right remains silent about that form of welfare

Oil companies pay income taxes, Solyndra never did

https://www.cheatsheet.com/politics/...tml/?a=viewall


Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

re filthy oil industry:


Oil Spills in Nigeria Could Kill 16,000 Babies a Year


far right pro lifers should be enraged by this news & there are many online links to prove there were more such leakages in Nigeria

https://www.hrw.org/news/2013/09/11/...d-mining-shame

 
taxslave
+1
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

If you're planning on buying one, expect delivery in maybe 10 years... His company still can't deliver on teh preorders from a couple of years back



Yeah, good point 'cause we all know that the rare earths, metals, plastics and elements needed EVs self-extract themselves from the Earth and leap into the cars already put together for assembly.

.. Glad you brought up that critical difference there bud

Worse this is the thought process of th people we let "educate" our kids.

Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Maybe you could buy one of these. In a few years you might not have a choice.
All-Electric Vehicles For Sale In USA (2017 & 2018 Model Years)


https://cleantechnica.com/2018/01/07...-for-sale-usa/

And then there is this good news. Got any more straws to clutch?

Electric Cars May Rule the World’s Roads by 2040



https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...-engines-2040/

May, might , maybe. How about something solid. In any event most of us will be fertilizer ourselves by then.

Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

It's fun poking him. I don't expect him to ever admit he's wrong; even though by now even he should be able to read the writing in the wall. But then again he could be a flat-earther.




I don't recall a wager about anything. But since mass produced cars are already on the streets I would guess you have already lost if that is what you are talking about.





Oil industry - enough said.
E

How about less pollution? If there is a more destructive industry on earth than the extraction of fossil fuels I've yet to here about it.

Ever hear of a thing called nuclear? The most polluting and dangerous way to charge your electric car.
 
spilledthebeer
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Worse this is the thought process of th people we let "educate" our kids.



May, might , maybe. How about something solid. In any event most of us will be fertilizer ourselves by then.



Ever hear of a thing called nuclear? The most polluting and dangerous way to charge your electric car.

If we ban all oil subsidies then how will civil service union Hogs and Sunshine List Pigs get the fossil fuel they need to keep their gas guzzling toys running?

WE have a choice here- we can leave the tax rules as they are or we can let LIE-berals RIG things even further in their favour!

If we cancel the oil subsidies then we MUST PAY HOGS more gravy so they can continue to play with their toys in the fashion they believe they are entitled to!

Either way- we pay and they play- until LIE-berals are defeated!

ALL LIE-BERAL POLICY IS FAILING!
 
captain morgan
+1
#46
There are no such things as direct cash subsidies to oil companies (at least in NorAm).... Tax incentives, sure, but that's not so different than incentives to other sectors.

regardless of what the tards say about oil co. subsidies, there are only a fantasy
 
petros
+2
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

I don't recall a wager about anything. But since mass produced cars are already on the streets I would guess you have already lost if that is what you are talking about.

If there is a more destructive industry on earth than the extraction of fossil fuels I've yet to here about it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Do you have any evidence that the mining of rare earths will be even remotely as filthy as the oil industry? I'm betting you don't. But I eagerly await a link to prove me wrong.

Mining beats oil hands down.
 
captain morgan
+1
#48
Buddy doesn't have a clue... Never has
 
gopher
#49
Quote:

captain morgan


Oil companies pay income taxes, Solyndra never did


Solyndra got $500 million in subsidies.
The oil industry gets BILLIONS in subsidies every year and continues to collect such welfare.
 
petros
+1
#50
Numbers.

According to a Congressional Budget Office testimony, roughly three-fourths of the projected cost of tax preferences for energy in 2016 was for renewable energy and energy efficiency. An estimated $10.9 billion was directed toward renewable energy; $2.7 billion, went to energy efficiency or electricity transmission. Fossil fuels accounted for most of the remaining cost of energy-related tax preferences—an estimated $4.6 billion.[28]
 
Bar Sinister
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Worse this is the thought process of th people we let "educate" our kids.



May, might , maybe. How about something solid. In any event most of us will be fertilizer ourselves by then.



Ever hear of a thing called nuclear? The most polluting and dangerous way to charge your electric car.

Please tell me what part of my post advocated nuclear energy. And if you really want an electric car there are several models on the market. I've already posted links to those twice.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jinentonix View Post

INCO! Ever heard of them? And all they mined was nickel. As was pointed out elsewhere, most of these rare earths are located in countries with less than favourable environmental laws. Up until around the mid-70s, the INCO facility in Sudbury was North America's single largest polluter. It alone accounted for 5% of North America's total air pollution. That doesn't take into account the toxic environment of its settling ponds that that regularly spilled their contents.

Meanwhile, China has estimated that at least 20% of their farmland is now toxic from heavy metal runoff. Runoff generated by the mining and refining of minerals for batteries, along with China's massive battery producing capacity.

Lithium batteries also have a nasty propensity for self-combustion. I've seen a load of lithium batteries take down a 747 in flight. Not to mention a number of spontaneous EV fires as well. Hell, even cell phones have "exploded" because the lithium batteries got too hot.

Agriculture. More specifically, animal agriculture. Even more specifically, an animal agriculture industry that exists primarily these days to feed the fast-food and chain restaurant industry. You combine that production chain and you not only have the most destructive industry on the planet, you also have the most wasteful industry on the planet.

Nice answer. But nothing in it proves that the mining of non-fossil fuels is even as remotely as destructive as the oil and coal industries.

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

There are no such things as direct cash subsidies to oil companies (at least in NorAm).... Tax incentives, sure, but that's not so different than incentives to other sectors.

regardless of what the tards say about oil co. subsidies, there are only a fantasy

OK genius. Explain the difference between a subsidy paid for by taxpayers and an incentive paid for by taxpayers. I betting even your dogmatic bafflegab is not up to the task.
 
spilledthebeer
+1
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Please tell me what part of my post advocated nuclear energy. And if you really want an electric car there are several models on the market. I've already posted links to those twice.



Nice answer. But nothing in it proves that the mining of non-fossil fuels is even as remotely as destructive as the oil and coal industries.



OK genius. Explain the difference between a subsidy paid for by taxpayers and an incentive paid for by taxpayers. I betting even your dogmatic bafflegab is not up to the task.



Oh poor LIE-berals- they are scurrying about like cockroaches that have suddenly found themselves in the bright light of day. Fed up Cdn voters have examined LIE-beral policy and declared all of it to be utter failure! Even worse- LIE-berals have run out of cash to offer up to persuade some of us to look the other way- as LIE-berals work to make Canada better- FOR THEM! Here is an article illustrating how empty LIE-beral values are. With some comments of my own in brackets):

Doug Ford's tax break won't cut it for poor, Liberals claim

By Antonella Artuso. Published: March 16, 2018 Updated: March 16, 2018 8:00 AM EDT

Filed Under: Toronto SUN/ News Ontario

Related

News
BATTLEGROUND: Clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson calls Wynne 'most dangerous woman in Canada'

Toronto Sun files

TORONTO — If you’re a minimum wage earner, voting for Progressive Conservative Leader Doug Ford is going to cost you, the Ontario Liberals claim.

$1,465, to be precise.

Ontario Labour Minister Kevin Flynn quoted a report by the Ontario office of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives in his assertion that minimum wage earners making $15-an-hour would see an annual increase in their take-home pay of $1,950.

Labour Minister Kevin Flynn

Senior economist Sheila Block looked at Ford’s statement that he would freeze the minimum wage at $14 an hour, instead of following through with the Liberal plan to increase it to $15 an hour on Jan. 1, and eliminate income tax for those earning $30,000 a year or less.

Block calculates that Ford’s tax cut would provide only $485 in savings for the average minimum wage earner.

(Sheila Block is the same person who also told us that Ontari-owe LIE-beral debt was reasonable and manageable just so long as interest rates did not rise- or other economic shocks did not appear! And of course interest rates are slowly rising, the big economic engine- housing construction has faltered as LIE-berals panic over rising debt loads, and we are looking at potential federal deficits in the $120 billion dollar range if Our idiot Boy Justin succeeds in getting Trump disgusted enough to scrap NAFTA over LIE-beral immigration madness!)

(And of course Our idiot Boy was elected on a promise to run small $10 billion dollar deficits for a couple of years till Cdn economy recovered- and it has NOT recovered- it has gotten WORSE- and those “small deficits have ballooned into vast flows of red ink that are at least double what he promised with no sign he has any clue how to keep us from drowning in that red ink! LIE-beral friendly economists cannot predict with accuracy what may happen in bond markets as Cdn debt grows, and cannot predict how much prices will rise as a result of LIE-beral mandated wage increases nor can they predict how many people may be laid off as a result of customers shunning biz with higher prices! In short- our economist are guessing- based on their political biases and personal preferences!)

“What his plan would mean is less money for essentials, including food and transit, all those everyday expenses,” Flynn said. “What it is plain conservative old-fashioned ideology.”

(Less money for poor people? Really? Economist Block appears to have made predictions based on ideology. What we CAN be certain of- because LIE-berals have told us- is that there WILL be ongoing price increases for many things -if LIE-berals win another Ontari-owe election! We are in an election year so there will be no TTC fare hike- this year- for political reasons! We have been told that LIE-berals intend to put up the price of electricity steadily for some years to come- with the actual rate of increase to be determined IF they win the election or otherwise! The property tax hike for this years is 2.9 percent while LIE-berals claimed to be aiming at “inflation rate” of 2 percent- while ordinary people make due with raises of about 0.5 percent! LIE-beral math does NOT add up! If LIE-berals win the 2018 election then we can be assured they will LOOT AND PILLAGE in 2019 to pay for all those civil service union Hog votes that put them back in power!)

(IN addition Ontari-owe is “partnered with California on the carbon crap and trade tax scam and California has put up its carbon tax from $10.00 to $18.00 and shall we ask if Wynne-bag is simply waiting till after the June election she is still hoping to win- to follow partner California in jacking up that carbon tax- which will put food prices up another 15-20 percent! One reason for LIE-berals to be breaking their promise on giving us a balanced budget in 2018 is because they have offered \Hogs a 2 percent raise for this year- with no new taxes to pay for it- its an election year and new taxes are bad for LIE-beral public image- but how bad is it to be seen borrowing money to give to greedy Hogs How much wage increase will LIE-berals let us keep if they are re-elected? Your honest answer should be NONE!)

The record shows that Ontario PCs tend to freeze minimum wage when they’re in government, he said.

(Oh gosh- frozen minimum wages? How awful- compared to the tens of thousands of jobs LOST in just the first month after the LIE-beral wage increase! A better wage does not help those who got laid off and it certainly will not help those who will not be hired in future because LIE-beral taxes are a job killer- and a govt mandated wage hike is equal to a new tax on biz- and a job killer!)

Ford could not be reached for comment, but in a tweet, he noted Ontario had the lowest increase in median household income in the country between 2005-15.

“Everyday working people are being left behind in Kathleen Wynne’s Ontario, while her friends have grown rich,” he tweeted.

Ford has yet to deliver his election platform but he has been critical of the way the Ontario Liberals introduced the minimum wage.

aartuso at postmedia.

(Bait and switch is a beloved LIE-beral policy! They offer up that dandy wage increase and then start doing the “take aways”! A higher wage means more income tax collected by LIE-berals. It means more cash collected in Unemployment Insurance deductions. Means a higher contribution to Canada Pension Plan. And best of all- for LIE-berals- it fuels inflation as biz passes on the new wage costs to customers as higher prices- which gives LIE-berals what THEY WANT- a better excuse to PAY MORE GRAVY TO CIVIL SERVICE UNION HOGS!)

(Yes- LIE-berals keep telling us they only pay out money according to the “inflation rate” and with our economy drowning in red ink and no inflation visible in the private sector- LIE-berals have chosen to CREATE inflation as an excuse and to confuse voters!)

(We have seen a series of HUGE price increases for electricity- as LIE-berals turn our electrical system into a giant slush fund for their Hog allies. Even worse- LIE-berals have slammed shut the books so we cannot see what manner of dirt is hidden in their Hydro files- its OUR MONEY but its NOT our business to know what LIE-berals do with it!)

(We have endured a series of NINE PERCENT water rate increases- 9 percent in each of 5 years and then a series of FOUR PERCENT increases after that as LIE-berals registered on our growing rage! And we should not ask what happened to the LIE-beral inflation target of TWO PERCENT? LIE-berals tell us the water rate increases are needed to pay for repairs and upgrades to the neglected system- but they do NOT want to admit that the system is neglected because ALL the money was spent on Hog gravy for decades and NONE was spent on maintenance! So now we endure both emergency repairs and major floods plus Hog wage greed!)

(And LIE-berals have “helped” us with auto insurance rates as well -so they say! I ask: did YOU get your 15 percent rate reduction? LIE-berals CLAIM you did- in the form of reduced increases for insurance! But LIE-berals do NOT mention the FIFTY PERCENT REDUCTION in benefits for accident victims that came with your mythical 15 percent reduction in auto rates! LIE-berals do not want to admit that Ontari-owe drivers have lower accident rates than other Cdns yet pay THE HIGHEST RATES! Nor do they want to discuss how many Sunshine List pals own stocks in insurance companies- and Lord knows- Hogs NEED more gravy- hence the LIE-beral insurance rates!)

(LIE-berals- who do NOT like to be contradicted- tell us our rates are high because of FRAUD! But fraud is a crime and LIE-berals are IGNORING IT! Why not launch a blitz on the organized crime gangs that are behind the staged accidents and against the doctors aiding the fraudsters collecting benefits for alleged whiplash and other easily faked soft tissue injuries? Are LIE-berals worried that they will find many of the fraud artists to be immigrants let into Canada by shameless LIE-berals BUYING votes at any price?)

(LIE-berals always tell us we are systemic racists if we complain about immigrant crime rates. But LIE-berals do not want to talk about the Russian arrested at his magnificent King City mansion for the second time because all his wonderful luxuries are paid for with FORGED credit cards! LIE-berals do not wish to discuss the biggest ATM bank machine fraud in Cdn history- pulled off with the technical aid of gangs based in Russia! LIE-berals do not wish to discuss the 4 Afghan brothers arrested on car theft charges- over 1500 charges- with convictions on ALL! Do not want to discuss the Sikhs arrested for bribing and bullying gas station attendants into letting them set up credit card readers in stores to gather information to aid forgers in making more fake cards! Do not want to discuss the Sikhs who set up fake unemployment insurance accounts through their house renovation biz and claimed benefits based on LIES! Crime is an equal opportunity employer and there is NO need to single out any race- but LIE-berals long ago figured out their snake oil political sales policies go better with poor immigrants so LIE-berals seek to distract us with this systemic racist crap!)

(There are other matters of concern related to auto insurance rates and mythical LIE-beral benefits. Such as snow plow contracts for clearing our roads- with LIE-beral penny pinching putting drivers in danger. LIE-berals have “relaxed” snow clearing times-meaning our roads are plowed less frequently as LIE-berals wrestled with companies that offered to do the job cheap- but lacked suitable equipment to perform even at the “relaxed” LIE-beral standard!)

(There are also concerns over road paving contracts with inferior paving material used as a cost saving measure- but hey- its good for LIE-berals as the nice fresh paving will last at least till after the next election- and that is good enough for LIE-berals! Too bad about the damage to our cars steering and suspension as we jolt and rattle over those potholes though- its just another hidden cost LIE-berals do not want to discuss!)

(LIE-berals rob Peter to pay Paul- and Peter is private sector and Paul is a public sector union Hog! That “wonderful” LIE-beral wage increase VANISHES once you get the rest of the policy- increased govt costs for EVERYTHING!)

(And worst of all- LIE-berals keep talking about fairness and the need for new revenue tools but if fairness were really their concern then why would they not immediately impose the health levy on civil service union Hogs in Ontari-owe? As it stands now- no Hog pays that health levy- and one employed Cdn in three works for govt! No wonder there is a hole in the health care books!)
 
pgs
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by spilledthebeer View Post

Oh poor LIE-berals- they are scurrying about like cockroaches that have suddenly found themselves in the bright light of day. Fed up Cdn voters have examined LIE-beral policy and declared all of it to be utter failure! Even worse- LIE-berals have run out of cash to offer up to persuade some of us to look the other way- as LIE-berals work to make Canada better- FOR THEM! Here is an article illustrating how empty LIE-beral values are. With some comments of my own in brackets):

Doug Ford's tax break won't cut it for poor, Liberals claim

By Antonella Artuso. Published: March 16, 2018 Updated: March 16, 2018 8:00 AM EDT

Filed Under: Toronto SUN/ News Ontario

Related

News
BATTLEGROUND: Clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson calls Wynne 'most dangerous woman in Canada'

Toronto Sun files

TORONTO — If you’re a minimum wage earner, voting for Progressive Conservative Leader Doug Ford is going to cost you, the Ontario Liberals claim.

$1,465, to be precise.

Ontario Labour Minister Kevin Flynn quoted a report by the Ontario office of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives in his assertion that minimum wage earners making $15-an-hour would see an annual increase in their take-home pay of $1,950.

Labour Minister Kevin Flynn

Senior economist Sheila Block looked at Ford’s statement that he would freeze the minimum wage at $14 an hour, instead of following through with the Liberal plan to increase it to $15 an hour on Jan. 1, and eliminate income tax for those earning $30,000 a year or less.

Block calculates that Ford’s tax cut would provide only $485 in savings for the average minimum wage earner.

(Sheila Block is the same person who also told us that Ontari-owe LIE-beral debt was reasonable and manageable just so long as interest rates did not rise- or other economic shocks did not appear! And of course interest rates are slowly rising, the big economic engine- housing construction has faltered as LIE-berals panic over rising debt loads, and we are looking at potential federal deficits in the $120 billion dollar range if Our idiot Boy Justin succeeds in getting Trump disgusted enough to scrap NAFTA over LIE-beral immigration madness!)

(And of course Our idiot Boy was elected on a promise to run small $10 billion dollar deficits for a couple of years till Cdn economy recovered- and it has NOT recovered- it has gotten WORSE- and those “small deficits have ballooned into vast flows of red ink that are at least double what he promised with no sign he has any clue how to keep us from drowning in that red ink! LIE-beral friendly economists cannot predict with accuracy what may happen in bond markets as Cdn debt grows, and cannot predict how much prices will rise as a result of LIE-beral mandated wage increases nor can they predict how many people may be laid off as a result of customers shunning biz with higher prices! In short- our economist are guessing- based on their political biases and personal preferences!)

“What his plan would mean is less money for essentials, including food and transit, all those everyday expenses,” Flynn said. “What it is plain conservative old-fashioned ideology.”

(Less money for poor people? Really? Economist Block appears to have made predictions based on ideology. What we CAN be certain of- because LIE-berals have told us- is that there WILL be ongoing price increases for many things -if LIE-berals win another Ontari-owe election! We are in an election year so there will be no TTC fare hike- this year- for political reasons! We have been told that LIE-berals intend to put up the price of electricity steadily for some years to come- with the actual rate of increase to be determined IF they win the election or otherwise! The property tax hike for this years is 2.9 percent while LIE-berals claimed to be aiming at “inflation rate” of 2 percent- while ordinary people make due with raises of about 0.5 percent! LIE-beral math does NOT add up! If LIE-berals win the 2018 election then we can be assured they will LOOT AND PILLAGE in 2019 to pay for all those civil service union Hog votes that put them back in power!)

(IN addition Ontari-owe is “partnered with California on the carbon crap and trade tax scam and California has put up its carbon tax from $10.00 to $18.00 and shall we ask if Wynne-bag is simply waiting till after the June election she is still hoping to win- to follow partner California in jacking up that carbon tax- which will put food prices up another 15-20 percent! One reason for LIE-berals to be breaking their promise on giving us a balanced budget in 2018 is because they have offered \Hogs a 2 percent raise for this year- with no new taxes to pay for it- its an election year and new taxes are bad for LIE-beral public image- but how bad is it to be seen borrowing money to give to greedy Hogs How much wage increase will LIE-berals let us keep if they are re-elected? Your honest answer should be NONE!)

The record shows that Ontario PCs tend to freeze minimum wage when they’re in government, he said.

(Oh gosh- frozen minimum wages? How awful- compared to the tens of thousands of jobs LOST in just the first month after the LIE-beral wage increase! A better wage does not help those who got laid off and it certainly will not help those who will not be hired in future because LIE-beral taxes are a job killer- and a govt mandated wage hike is equal to a new tax on biz- and a job killer!)

Ford could not be reached for comment, but in a tweet, he noted Ontario had the lowest increase in median household income in the country between 2005-15.

“Everyday working people are being left behind in Kathleen Wynne’s Ontario, while her friends have grown rich,” he tweeted.

Ford has yet to deliver his election platform but he has been critical of the way the Ontario Liberals introduced the minimum wage.

aartuso at postmedia.

(Bait and switch is a beloved LIE-beral policy! They offer up that dandy wage increase and then start doing the “take aways”! A higher wage means more income tax collected by LIE-berals. It means more cash collected in Unemployment Insurance deductions. Means a higher contribution to Canada Pension Plan. And best of all- for LIE-berals- it fuels inflation as biz passes on the new wage costs to customers as higher prices- which gives LIE-berals what THEY WANT- a better excuse to PAY MORE GRAVY TO CIVIL SERVICE UNION HOGS!)

(Yes- LIE-berals keep telling us they only pay out money according to the “inflation rate” and with our economy drowning in red ink and no inflation visible in the private sector- LIE-berals have chosen to CREATE inflation as an excuse and to confuse voters!)

(We have seen a series of HUGE price increases for electricity- as LIE-berals turn our electrical system into a giant slush fund for their Hog allies. Even worse- LIE-berals have slammed shut the books so we cannot see what manner of dirt is hidden in their Hydro files- its OUR MONEY but its NOT our business to know what LIE-berals do with it!)

(We have endured a series of NINE PERCENT water rate increases- 9 percent in each of 5 years and then a series of FOUR PERCENT increases after that as LIE-berals registered on our growing rage! And we should not ask what happened to the LIE-beral inflation target of TWO PERCENT? LIE-berals tell us the water rate increases are needed to pay for repairs and upgrades to the neglected system- but they do NOT want to admit that the system is neglected because ALL the money was spent on Hog gravy for decades and NONE was spent on maintenance! So now we endure both emergency repairs and major floods plus Hog wage greed!)

(And LIE-berals have “helped” us with auto insurance rates as well -so they say! I ask: did YOU get your 15 percent rate reduction? LIE-berals CLAIM you did- in the form of reduced increases for insurance! But LIE-berals do NOT mention the FIFTY PERCENT REDUCTION in benefits for accident victims that came with your mythical 15 percent reduction in auto rates! LIE-berals do not want to admit that Ontari-owe drivers have lower accident rates than other Cdns yet pay THE HIGHEST RATES! Nor do they want to discuss how many Sunshine List pals own stocks in insurance companies- and Lord knows- Hogs NEED more gravy- hence the LIE-beral insurance rates!)

(LIE-berals- who do NOT like to be contradicted- tell us our rates are high because of FRAUD! But fraud is a crime and LIE-berals are IGNORING IT! Why not launch a blitz on the organized crime gangs that are behind the staged accidents and against the doctors aiding the fraudsters collecting benefits for alleged whiplash and other easily faked soft tissue injuries? Are LIE-berals worried that they will find many of the fraud artists to be immigrants let into Canada by shameless LIE-berals BUYING votes at any price?)

(LIE-berals always tell us we are systemic racists if we complain about immigrant crime rates. But LIE-berals do not want to talk about the Russian arrested at his magnificent King City mansion for the second time because all his wonderful luxuries are paid for with FORGED credit cards! LIE-berals do not wish to discuss the biggest ATM bank machine fraud in Cdn history- pulled off with the technical aid of gangs based in Russia! LIE-berals do not wish to discuss the 4 Afghan brothers arrested on car theft charges- over 1500 charges- with convictions on ALL! Do not want to discuss the Sikhs arrested for bribing and bullying gas station attendants into letting them set up credit card readers in stores to gather information to aid forgers in making more fake cards! Do not want to discuss the Sikhs who set up fake unemployment insurance accounts through their house renovation biz and claimed benefits based on LIES! Crime is an equal opportunity employer and there is NO need to single out any race- but LIE-berals long ago figured out their snake oil political sales policies go better with poor immigrants so LIE-berals seek to distract us with this systemic racist crap!)

(There are other matters of concern related to auto insurance rates and mythical LIE-beral benefits. Such as snow plow contracts for clearing our roads- with LIE-beral penny pinching putting drivers in danger. LIE-berals have “relaxed” snow clearing times-meaning our roads are plowed less frequently as LIE-berals wrestled with companies that offered to do the job cheap- but lacked suitable equipment to perform even at the “relaxed” LIE-beral standard!)

(There are also concerns over road paving contracts with inferior paving material used as a cost saving measure- but hey- its good for LIE-berals as the nice fresh paving will last at least till after the next election- and that is good enough for LIE-berals! Too bad about the damage to our cars steering and suspension as we jolt and rattle over those potholes though- its just another hidden cost LIE-berals do not want to discuss!)

(LIE-berals rob Peter to pay Paul- and Peter is private sector and Paul is a public sector union Hog! That “wonderful” LIE-beral wage increase VANISHES once you get the rest of the policy- increased govt costs for EVERYTHING!)

(And worst of all- LIE-berals keep talking about fairness and the need for new revenue tools but if fairness were really their concern then why would they not immediately impose the health levy on civil service union Hogs in Ontari-owe? As it stands now- no Hog pays that health levy- and one employed Cdn in three works for govt! No wonder there is a hole in the health care books!)

Well you certainly don’t mince words .
 
taxslave
+2
#54
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Please tell me what part of my post advocated nuclear energy. And if you really want an electric car there are several models on the market. I've already posted links to those twice.



Nice answer. But nothing in it proves that the mining of non-fossil fuels is even as remotely as destructive as the oil and coal industries.



OK genius. Explain the difference between a subsidy paid for by taxpayers and an incentive paid for by taxpayers. I betting even your dogmatic bafflegab is not up to the task.

You never thought about how the power to charge electric cars is produced did you? A large part of the world generates its electricity with nuclear or coal. So to advocate for higher electric consumption is to advocate for more nukes or coal.

Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Please tell me what part of my post advocated nuclear energy. And if you really want an electric car there are several models on the market. I've already posted links to those twice.



Nice answer. But nothing in it proves that the mining of non-fossil fuels is even as remotely as destructive as the oil and coal industries.



OK genius. Explain the difference between a subsidy paid for by taxpayers and an incentive paid for by taxpayers. I betting even your dogmatic bafflegab is not up to the task.

Generally incentives such as oil companies do not cost the taxpayer anything. Subsidies OTH are usually in the form of cash that someone else had to earn. Like wind energy gets.
 
captain morgan
+2
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

Solyndra got $500 million in subsidies.
The oil industry gets BILLIONS in subsidies every year and continues to collect such welfare.

Tax incentives gopher, against net operating profits, unlike Solyndra that got a few truck loads of hard currency
 
pgs
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Tax incentives gopher, against net operating profits, unlike Solyndra that got a few truck loads of hard currency

They built nice new corporate state of the art corporate offices though .That has to count for something .
 
captain morgan
+1
#57
It's extra super important to look good first and later the advanced tech will spring from those smart, expensive offices.

... It's even more helpful if you buy all the Sr execs new Mercedes' every year as company cars... It's guaranteed that the tech advances even faster!
 
petros
+1
#58
How many natural gas fired "peak" power plants need to be built before whirlygigs and solar panels can be tied to the grid and relied on to meet energy needs?
 
gopher
#59
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Tax incentives gopher, against net operating profits, unlike Solyndra that got a few truck loads of hard currency



fossil fuel subsidies include direct handouts:

Fossil Fuel Subsidies: Overview - Oil Change InternationalOil Change International


billions more in other forms


Solyndra was just that once - the oil industry gets their handouts every year
 
Hoid
#60
nobody gets more goverment money than the oil industry.
 

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