Why Russia Hasnít Invaded Ukraine


petros
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Propaganda: their lies.
Public information: Our lies

Whose BS does one believe?

Is that what YouTube says?
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Propaganda: their lies.
Public information: Our lies

Whose BS does one believe?

You automatically believe theirs?
 
petros
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

You automatically believe theirs?

Media and TV bad. YouTube good.
 
BaalsTears
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by gore0bsessed View Post

Why Russia Hasnít Invaded Ukraine | Thick Toast


The United States engages in lies to justify its actions abroad. A notable example of this is the underwhelming proof it provided that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. After 2.4 trillion dollars spent and over a million deaths, we all know how that ended.



This proof is a prerequisite for US aggression, is a pretense for invasion, and is typically fabricated. Take, for instance, Syria. The goal of the United States: invade Syria. The pretense for war: chemical weapons. However, Putin brilliantly deescalated this volatile situation by interceding on behalf of Assad, thus thwarting the real US goal of starting war in Syria. Not to be bested, the US invented another pre-text for Syria invasion: ISIS. But I digress, the point is that in order to interfere with other countries, the US will fabricate an onus for initiating hostilities.

False Pretense For Meddling in Ukraine

Like George W Bush saying terrorists ďhate us because weíre freeĒ, the Ukraine version of this cheesy, illogical pretext-for-war-building is ďPutin wants to rebuild the former Soviet Union and annex Ukraine.Ē Itís a lie. It doesnít stand up to logic. Thatís why I give you the top 5 reasons why Putin has not, and will not invade Ukraine.

#1: Occamís Razor

From wikipedia:

The principle states that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected. Other, more complicated solutions may ultimately prove correct, butóin the absence of certaintyóthe fewer assumptions that are made, the better.

Use of Occamís Razor is debate 101, and since weíre in a debate here, Iím going to invoke it. If youíre not used to dealing with it, let me give you a simple example. Youíre hungry. Why are you hungry? Maybe a leprechaun hijacked an alienís flying saucer and crash landed in your back yard, and needs to find a new power source which just happens to be the pizza you ate last night, and used a teleporter beam to extract the pizza you ate before sleep, making you hungry. Or maybe youíre hungry because you havenít eaten yet today. Which is the most likely? The one with the fewest assumptions.

Lets apply Occamís Razor to the question, ďDoes Russia want to invade Ukraine?” The assumption: Russia wants to invade Ukraine. Putin says he doesnít want to. To say otherwise, is to assume that Putin is lying. (This makes 2 assumptions, 1: Putin wants to invade, and 2: he is lying about it).

hollandeWhat does Europe have to say about it? Hollande of France says Putin doesnít want to annex Eastern Ukraine. This is a leader who has spent much time sitting with Putin in meetings, discussing Ukraine and trying to work out a solution. I should also state that this is something that Obama has NOT done. Who should you give the benefit of the doubt, a world leader who has actually met with Putin to discuss these issues, or one who has not? Again, the logical conclusion would be that Hollande is in a better position to know, and to assume otherwise is to assume Obama knows better having not spent as much time with Putin in finding a solution, yet another assumption working against Occamís Razor.

#2: It Hasnít Happened

If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine and annex the Donbass area, why hasnít it done so? Lets examine possible reasons:

Itís afraid of sanctions. I hate to be captain obvious, but that didnít stop Russia from allowing the Crimea area to hold a referendum and decide to peacefully rejoin the Russian Federation, did it? Well, did it? The assumption you would have to make is that Russia is not afraid enough of sanctions to allow Crimea to rejoin, but it is too afraid of sanctions that it will not allow the Donbass area to do the same. It makes no sense, and to force it to make sense runs against Occamís Razor (least amount of assumptions).
The Russian Federation is militarily unable to take Kiev. I was hesitant to even list this option, but there are certainly some ultra-Nationalistic Kiev sympathizers out there who think that Ukraine is a formidable match for war against Russia. Putin said, if he really wanted to, he could take Kiev in 2 weeks. This was before Poroshenko ground his army into a bloody stub of its former self, so pro-rating the situation, perhaps it would only be 1 week now. He has still not done so.
Thereís no evidence. After one year anniversary of Maiden in Kiev, there is literally no evidence of Russian involvement. In a joint press conference, Merkel and Hollande said thereís no evidence of Russian involvement in Ukraine, nor any Russian crossings at the border. In the previous linked article, I delve into this question exhaustively, showing how shoddy and illegitimate US evidence of Russian involvement in Ukraine is.


#3: Itís against Russian Interests

Would you be surprised if I told you that NATO works diligently to expand its influence? Examine the photo below for a moment.



This photo portrays the real situation on the ground since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. Who is the aggressor? Putinís Russia, or NATOís Europe? Countries do not simply ďswitch sidesĒ, the US has invested billions of dollars, through non government organizations (NGOs) installed in each country to wage propaganda. Pro-western candidates are propped up, pro-Russian governments are overthrown.

What would happen if Russia invaded, and annexed the Donbass region? The remainder of Ukraine (some sharing a border with Russia) would then be all that more empowered to rush into NATO without Donbass region voters to prohibit it. US military rockets could literally be placed within a few hundred kilometer of Moscow.

Let me digress here for a moment, and discuss ďUS exceptionalismĒ. Back in the 60ís the US cited the Monroe Doctrine to keep Russian missiles out of Cuba. A paraphrase of the Monroe Doctrine would be ďIf you even think about doing anything in the entire western hemisphere, Russia, weíll nuke your ***, period.Ē In response to that, Iíd like to pose a simple question: is it in the national security interest of Russia to keep NATO missiles off its border? Answer: hell yes. If you think otherwise, youíve been drinking the ďUS is exceptionalĒ koolaid.

Who has more of a vested interest in Ukraine? A country who for centuries consisted of most of Ukraine borders, who has been a trade partner, sister state in the Soviet Union, and generally tied to Ukraine by geography, language and culture? Or a country completely on the other side of the world, does not share same language, culture, whose citizens canít even identify Ukraine on a map, and somehow went through most of its existence without ever confessing that Ukraine was strategically important to its national security in any way? (That is, of course, the United States).

Does Russia have a legitimate national security interest in promoting stability in its sister state of Ukraine? Yes. What happens if Russia annexes a little portion of it, allowing the rest of the Ukraine to gravitate to Europe (including a large stretch that remains on Russiaís border)? Itíll join NATO. Does leaving the Donbass region in Ukraine help even out the country enough to prevent it from joining NATO? Yes. Therefore, it is against Russiaís national security interest to annex the Donbass region.

#4: Russia Largest Country, Doesnít Need More Territory

Again, I am being Captain Obvious. The point #3 above ended commenting on adding a ďlittle area of UkraineĒ. I can thoroughly explain why the US and all of Europe would like to get its grubby little fingers over the Ukraine, to plunder its resources. Iíd like to share a video below that I originally found on Saker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=68RErgHOzN8

The video above recounts whatís at stake in the Ukraine, how there are literally trillions of dollars wound up in oil, coal and other natural resources. These are all resources that Russia has in plenty, and makes a bundle selling to Europe. EU, on the other hand, doesnít have access to these types of resources. This is the foundation for the IMF loans to Ukraine, and the attempt to rip Ukraine out of Russiaís orbit and into the EU.

EU and US would love nothing more than for Ukraine to be a failed state, buying its resources for pennies on the dollar from fat oligarchs, while all of Ukraine is forced into the most severe austerity to keep the pro-Western Kiev junta in power.

Speaking of oligarchs in Ukraine, the US really doesnít even make a token effort to hide its conflicts of interests. It used to be that the US went all-out in pulling off false-flags in order to justify wars. Nowadays, it gets by with killing a few Americans in high resolution studio made videos.

In lawsuits, a judge is supposed to recuse themselves if they have a conflict of interest in determining the outcome of the lawsuit. Unfortunately, that doesnít prevent the executive branch, where US vice-president Joe Bidenís son Hunter becomes a top official in Burisma Holdings, the largest gas company in Ukraine. Average Americans should be disgusted that their country spends billions of dollars to subvert a country and empower a sort of corporate oligarch nepotism of the president and his cronies. Its well known in the mafia that illegitimate payments are often made to relatives of the mobsters.

Russia, on the other hand, doesnít need it. It is the largest country in the world. It has the largest proven gas reserves in the world (interestingly enough, Iran has the 2nd largest, see the pattern of US interest in who they pick fights with?). It has a stake in the arctic, where there is yet more vast resources. Arguing that Russia needs Ukraineís Donbass region for its resources is illogical and insincere.

#5: Evidence Points the United States is Lying


Liar in Chief graphic courtesy of Ben Garrison of GRR Graphics.

This article started out with asking the question, why would Russia want to invade Ukraine? Whereís the proof? Where is the smoking bullet, the photos, the tape recording of Putin saying this is his intention, anything? Now a year after the coup díetat in Kiev, there is nothing. Kiev apologists love posting pictures of ďRussianĒ tanks. In the last 24 hours, Ukraine army representitive Lysenko was claiming that Russia sent 20 more tanks over the border (from which Merkel and Hollande held a press conference over stating Lysenko is full of it). The truth is that from Debaltseve, the Donetsk Peopleís Republic received over 80 tanks from Ukraine, along with an ďincalculable amount of ammoď.

Lets, however, reverse the scenario and ask other questions, like ďIs there any proof the US may be lying?Ē

As referenced in the video above, Obama acknowledged that the US brokered a transition of power between Yanukovich and the Maidan rebels. This admission by Obama that the US has overthrown a democratically elected government in Ukraine, and replaced it with a military coup junta, shows the US is not clean as it makes accusations against Russia.
Victoria Nuland, the Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs who infamously was quoted saying ď**** the EUĒ in a conversation where US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt eagerly agreed, was caught stating that the US has spent over 5 billion dollars in ďbringing democracyĒ to the Ukraine. Watch the video below.


How does one spend 5 billion dollars to ďbring democracyĒ to Ukraine? The answer is simple. Funding opposition candidates, funding news organizations which function as propaganda and only telling one side of the story, and what of the violent coup díetat itself? Itís fairly well proven that the US has no qualms killing people in order to achieve its geopolitical goals in the world. Regime change is the number one US export.
US and NATO aggresion. Take a look at the map below. This map shows all of NATOs bases around Russia.
russia-wants-war

The United Stats has confirmed a military buildup along Russiaís border. This is where the real arrogance, the extremism of US exceptionalism comes into play. Can you imagine Russia intervening with the drug cartels in Mexico? Or, amassing troops along the Rio Grande under the pretense of protecting Mexican civilians swimming across to the US? That sounds far fetched, and of course it would never happen ó because Russia is a non-interventionalist country, but if Russia WAS doing that, it would be no different than what the US is doing worldwide. Can you imagine how Washington would respond if Russia did this?
In summary, Russia has absolutely no desire in empire building. Meanwhile, regime change and empire building is exactly what the US engages in as a primary foreign policy. It is time for US exceptionalism to end. They are all faux concerns spewed by US officials, the real game that Washington plays is subverting all countries that have bountiful stores of natural resources that can be had at pennies on the dollar.

The OP is racist and hateful with its scurrilous attack on prominent African Americans.
 
petros
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

Velcome to the Vest Comrade, you wallet please.

No Time for Laughter: Gas Prices in Ukraine to Increase Fourfold on April 1 / Sputnik International
Starting April 1, gas prices in Ukraine will increase by four times, according to the countryís Minister of Energy and Coal Industry Volodymyr Demchyshyn, RT reports. Currently, Ukrainians pay 1,089 hryvnia for one cubic meter of gas, but starting April 1, people will have to shell out 4,138 hryvnia for the same amount of gas.
Demchyshyn said the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the main creditor of Ukraine, pushed Kiev to raise the gas consumer tariffs in Ukraine so that they would match Western European levels. According to the minister, the IMF demanded an immediate increase in gas prices, but the government in Kiev managed to get an extension.

© Sputnik/ Alexandr Maksimenko
Ukraine May Start Importing up to 40Mln Cubic Meters of EU Gas Daily

In addition, Demchyshyn said the countryís energy sector will experience layoffs over the next few years.


Read more: No Time for Laughter: Gas Prices in Ukraine to Increase Fourfold on April 1 / Sputnik International

MHz, I started a Russian propaganda thread for you to post sh-t.
 
Cliffy
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

You automatically believe theirs?

Have you heard me pick sides? No, because I don't care. The argument here is between those picking sides.

And yes, Petros, the feeling is mutual.
 
petros
#37
That YouTube is worse than TV?
 
Cliffy
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

That YouTube is worse than TV?

Go back to the food inc. thread for the answer to that.
 
petros
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Go back to the food inc. thread for the answer to that.

Why? How about you google food inc debunked.
 
Cliffy
+1
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Why? How about you google food inc debunked.

Does your left foot ever get tired of spinning around on your right foot? You seem to enjoy being dizzy. Have fun on your merry-go-round.
 
petros
#41
Why are you upset at me that you fell for bullsh-t funded by the Organic Grower Assoc ?
 
B00Mer
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Does your left foot ever get tired of spinning around on your right foot? You seem to enjoy being dizzy. Have fun on your merry-go-round.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFlCD5CYAcU
 
MHz
#43
"Prepare for Full-Scale War" says Ukraine Deputy Foreign Minister: "With What?" asks Mish; Ukraine Lie of the Day



I have been sitting on close to a dozen videos describing the massive damage in military equipment in the latest separatist surge.

For a description, but no videos, please see Debaltsevsky Under Rebel Control, Boiler Remains; What's Next?

I saw no need to post videos because to me it was pretty obvious this was a repeat of the devastating defeat of Ukraine last August in the Battle of Ilovaisk in which Ukrainian forces refused an offer to exit encirclement by leaving behind equipment.

Ukraine Lie of the Day

Today Ukrainian "Antiterrorist Operation" spokesman Andrei Lysenko says Since 2015 Ukraine Destroyed Nearly 3,000 Militants.

I have no idea how many separatists were killed, but the rest of the claim in the body of the article is preposterous.
"According to operational information and data provided by our scouts, since the beginning of 2015, in Debaltsevo area, the Ukrainian military killed 2,911 militants and Russian military. More than 40 tanks, 30 armored combat vehicles, about 30 multiple rocket launchers."

In addition, since the establishment of the cease-fire, that is, from February 15, we neutralized 868 militants, 8 tanks, 11 armored combat vehicles and four multiple rocket launchers.
Read more at Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: "Prepare for Full-Scale War" says Ukraine Deputy Foreign Minister: "With What?" asks Mish; Ukraine Lie of the Day
 
petros
#44
Propaganda thread is for you.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/in...ropaganda.html
 
B00Mer
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

"Prepare for Full-Scale War" says Ukraine Deputy Foreign Minister: "With What?" asks Mish; Ukraine Lie of the Day

About time.. we need to a good war to destabilize oil and gas flows to get the Canadian economy back up and running. Get that oil backup to $99 dollars a barrel.

Russia (Putin) know this too and their economy is hurting.. what do you think he wants?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePuuLKAW8j0

Buy a Prius
 
petros
#46
NATO and China will end his authoritarian regime.
 
Angstrom
+1
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Propaganda: their lies.
Public information: Our lies

Whose BS does one believe?

Don't believe anyone or anything and concentrate on having a beautiful life.
 
MHz
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by B00Mer View Post

About time.. we need to a good war . . .

They want to hold it on your block, . . . with you in town.

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

NATO and China will end his authoritarian regime.

At least you are admitting NATO can't do it alone. The US would have to close WallSt for the whole war, shades of 9/11.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post

Don't believe anyone or anything and concentrate on having a beautiful life.

I guess that means he only believes his own BS.
 
MHz
#50
Notice that it is only the West that has to invent things, Russia can just rebroadcast what we get fed and they chuckle while we cring deeper into the couch.

Putin Conspiracy Theorists Strike Again - On US Public TV (PBS) - Russia Insider

The just released Frontline program “Putin’s Way” is a masterpiece of the western "Czar Putin" campfire story, destilled to perfection.
In the segment, PBS chucks its coveted journalistic guidelines straight out the window, relying almost entirely on worn-out speculation and bogeyman fairytales peddled by the likes of The Economist's Putin-hater-in-chief, Edward Lucas.
The accusations made are not even groundbreaking; the program, from start to finish, is a spectacular promotional piece for Karen Dawisha’s book Putin’s Kleptocracy: Who Owns Russia?, the narrative of which it follows closely while even giving us cameo appearances by the author.
This show comes on top of a lengthy feature review of the book by Washington Post blowhard Anne Applebaum, which was published last week in The New York Review of Books.
Hats off to Dawisha and her agent: this type of promotion sure beats signing ceremonies at bookstores.
 
Cliffy
#51
Oh, let's just get it over with. Fundy Christians like Harpo want Armageddon so let's do it. Let's start WW111. Let's blow the phuquing place all to heel and be done with it. I'm sick of listening to the war mongers ranting like lunatics. Putin's an A-hole, Obama's an A-hole, Harpos an A-hole, the whole phuquing bunch of world leaders are A-holes, so let's get it over with. Do the Universe a Gawd Damn favour.
 
petros
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Oh, let's just get it over with. Fundy Christians like Harpo want Armageddon so let's do it. Let's start WW111. Let's blow the phuquing place all to heel and be done with it. I'm sick of listening to the war mongers ranting like lunatics. Putin's an A-hole, Obama's an A-hole, Harpos an A-hole, the whole phuquing bunch of world leaders are A-holes, so let's get it over with. Do the Universe a Gawd Damn favour.

Unplug and all your wishes come true.
 
DaSleeper
#53
Everybody is out of step but me.....the ultimate conspiracy!
 
petros
+1
#54
Let's all live on the dole and bite that hand that feeds us. We can just tax rich people who own Evil Corp LLC.
 
B00Mer
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Let's all live on the dole and bite that hand that feeds us. We can just tax rich people who own Evil Corp LLC.

 
taxslave
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper View Post

I started reading the O P but when I got to the leprechaun and flying saucers I quit, because it looked too much like a megahurts post...

I read the whole thing. Made MHz look sane by comparison.
 
MHz
#57
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUeq9J0fgDQ
 
BaalsTears
#58
Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUeq9J0fgDQ

Ten seconds into the video. The guys standing behind Putin look like RCMP with bad hats.
 
Curious Cdn
#59
It's interesting. I post on some other forums, a few in other countries and pretty much I identical pro-Russion stuff is being posted on each one. It is so close to being cloned that one has to wonder if the Russians are systematically blanketing the forums out there as a means to disseminate their message. It would show a pretty high level of media savvy" to do so but if they consider the internet to be one of the modern battle grounds, it is entirely feasible that this stuff is "official" Russian generated propaganda.
 
Blackleaf
#60
As I've said before: it is the EU which is to blame for the situation in Ukraine, not Russia. The EU, not Russia, is the expansionist power in Europe, despite what the politicians in Britain's three main establishment parties tell you when they come out with their dangerous and childish anti-Putin rhetoric on national television. It was the EU which was trying to annex Ukraine, not Russia.

The EU's leaders keep telling us that Russia is an "expansionist" power and that Putin is behaving "like Hitler."

Yet in just the last 11 years the EU has almost doubled its number of Member States, whereas Russia has lost territory since 1990.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=0DbmJAB69PQ
Last edited by Blackleaf; Feb 24th, 2015 at 08:14 AM..
 

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