Muslim advocates charge NYPD is racially profiling in raids tied,


JBG
NDP
#1

Muslim advocates charge NYPD is racial profiling in Queens raids tied to alleged Zazi terror plot (link)

BY Henrick Karoliszyn and Samuel Goldsmith
DAILY NEWS WRITERS

Updated Saturday, October 10th 2009, 4:52 PM



Recent terror raids in Queens have led to a spike in fear and racial profiling, Muslim advocates charge.

************

"People are scared," said Sultan Faiz, a leader at Abu Bakar Mosque in Queens. "People are fearful in our community."

Faiz said attendance at the mosque has plunged since the raids.

"Stop the raids," one sign read. "No racial or religious profiling," read another.

Yesha Mahmooda, an organizer with the South Asian immigrant rights group Desis Rising Up and Moving, said hundreds of community members have contacted her to report police profiling in recent weeks.

"They are very scared they are being surveilled," she said.

Organizers say Muslims in New York haven't been this scared since the months after 9/11, when some were subject to blatant discrimination across the country.

**************** (snip)
When I went to High Holy Day services at the two temples I belong to, security was heavy. There were police inside and outside the religious facility. I don't recall anyone minding being "surveilled". Even if the police came in for services we would have been happy to have them.

Query, why are these people afraid of being "surveilled"? One of life's mysteries.

I heard footage on the radio of some of the demonstrators being interviewed. They expressed a wish that the police show more "respect" in their investigative activities. I suggest an even trade; the Muslim community organizers (who I do not accuse of complicity or involvement in terror) suggest that the members of their community that do bomb show some "respect" in their targets, and at least make mass transit, tall buildings, religious facilities, schools or any non-military target off-limits. A fair proposal?
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#2


Of course they are, they are not looking for 6 ft.+ Swedes or Norwegians are they. Racial profiling should be allowed if it is not done to extremes.
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
#3
The fact that 99%of the terrorists they are looking for are radical muslims does not make it racial profiling.
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#4
This is all too funny. What other group is killing people using terrorist means?
Radical Muslims are at the heart of the tensions. It is not racial profiling at all
We have a number of Canadians who want to bring home that little terrorist from
the US. No way, let him rot in US custody in fact we should extradite his older
brother to face justice as well. We should be keeping a close eye on the radical
Muslim community, no question about it.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#5
A Muslim isn't a "Race" or a "Nationality" so how do you profile a Religion? How do
you look at anyone in order to Profile them with respect to their religion? 6 ft + Swedes
can't be Muslim? Staking out places of worship kind'a sucks....but it's about the only
way I can invision being able to religiously profile anyone....unless the authorities just
force all the Muslim folks to be registered and wear a Yellow Star on their garments.
That would work, wouldn't it? There's a historical precedence demonstrating that it would
work buried somewhere in the annuls of history, isn't there?

The bulk of the culprits on 911 where Saudi Arabians specifically. Perhaps all Saudi's in
the USA can be attached to GPS units (like they do with Caribou & Coyotes) to track
their movements? The GPS units can be mounted on a collar that's locked around their
necks, and are hopefully waterproof....or just shoved up their butts....to be removed by
a Customs Official/Proctologist in the airport as they're leaving the country.
 
JBG
NDP
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

Staking out places of worship kind'a sucks....but it's about the only way I can invision being able to religiously profile anyone....

The religious facilities should be watched. Since little illegal activity occurs in Jewish facilities I'd have no objection to all such facilities being watched.

Nor should the Muslims if they're law-abiding.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#7
The CIA and the Pentagon are the biggest terrorist organizations on the planet and they are easy to tag - no racial profiling and no racist implications.
 
JBG
NDP
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

The CIA and the Pentagon are the biggest terrorist organizations on the planet and they are easy to tag - no racial profiling and no racist implications.

I see you prefer mindless slogans to analysis.
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#9
Now that you mention it, religious groups should be watched, Muslims at the top of
the list but not the only ones. These over the top Christian groups are just as dangerous should they actually gain power. The Muslim community of the main stream must step up to the plate if they don't want to be watched with suspicion.
I do believe there are many main stream Muslims who are appalled at what is going on, but they say nothing. I am tired of people coming to this country to
start a new life and right away they are bitching about the way things are here.
I am not saying all immigrants are complaining, but for the ones that are, go
home. No one asked people to come here, and when they do they should be loyal
to their new home country first. If you are going to become a citizen, then one
must accept the responsibility that comes with it. Main stream moderates should
not give sanctuary to those who are hell bent on making trouble.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by JBG View Post

I see you prefer mindless slogans to analysis.

You would prefer that I make a list of crimes against humanity instigated by the CIA and the Pentagon? I believe it has already been done on another thread. Go look it up. If you have no idea what has been happening in the world for the past 50 - 100 years then you should do your homework before posting on a subject. The history of the US since WWII has been one of terrorism, death squads, assassinations, war and interference in internal politics of dozens of countries for their own financial gain. If the truth hurts maybe you should go back to watching Disney movies.
 
JBG
NDP
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy View Post

No one asked people to come here, and when they do they should be loyal
to their new home country first. If you are going to become a citizen, then one
must accept the responsibility that comes with it. Main stream moderates should
not give sanctuary to those who are hell bent on making trouble.

You nailed it.
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

You would prefer that I make a list of crimes against humanity instigated by the CIA and the Pentagon? I believe it has already been done on another thread. Go look it up. If you have no idea what has been happening in the world for the past 50 - 100 years then you should do your homework before posting on a subject. The history of the US since WWII has been one of terrorism, death squads, assassinations, war and interference in internal politics of dozens of countries for their own financial gain. If the truth hurts maybe you should go back to watching Disney movies.

What you're saying is that the civilized world has to fight with both hands tied behind their back, while the barbarians continue their assaults unabated?
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#12
I know all too well what the US has been up to over the past 100 years and somewhat longer, I was once a news director in media a couple of decades ago.
I still prefer the American system to what the Muslims are offering. What they
do inside their own boarders is one thing, but if they want to challenge the west then bring it on. We suffer from public opinion now which means we fight these
conflicts with one hand tied behind our back. WWII was different both sides engaged in total war. We are pussy footing around really, making money for arms
dealers. This thing could come to a conclusion rather quickly if the west wanted to do their thing unfettered by public opinion. If we used the heavy stuff, Russia
would protest, China would protest, but do little because they have a Muslim problem on their boarders. You are right in the sense that things have not been fair, but fair doesn't count in the real world, power counts. Once we secure enough oil in our own countries, or uncap it as we have plenty, we won't need them anymore.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by JBG View Post

The religious facilities should be watched. Since little illegal activity occurs in Jewish facilities I'd have no objection to all such facilities being watched.

Nor should the Muslims if they're law-abiding.


Aghhh....the slippery slope. None of us should mind searches and detainment without
probable cause 'cuz...well...if you've done nothing wrong, and have nothing to hide, then
you have nothing to fear. Didn't the early Americans war against colonial England over
some thing along those lines (that and taxation without representation) ???

Isn't there something in the 4th or 5th amendment (or is it 4th & 5th amendment) about this?
Last edited by Ron in Regina; Oct 11th, 2009 at 10:12 PM..Reason: Missed a sentance.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#14
Sorry. Not being an American, I had to look this up. Here you go:

Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But then again....if you're not doing anything wrong, then the
United States Constitution shouldn't be relevant any longer now,
should it?
 
JBG
NDP
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

Aghhh....the slippery slope. None of us should mind searches and detainment without
probable cause 'cuz...well...if you've done nothing wrong, and have nothing to hide, then
you have nothing to fear. Didn't the early Americans war against colonial England over
some thing along those lines (that and taxation without representation) ???

Isn't there something in the 4th or 5th amendment (or is it 4th & 5th amendment) about this?

Fourth Amendment is against unreasonable searches and seizures. Fifth Amendment is against compelled self-incrimination.

The reason those don't apply is that mosques, while not public facilities, are open to large numbers of people. Thus, there is not the reasonable expectation of privacy as in a house. The 4th Amendment protections are based upon protecting a person's reasonable expectation of privacy, which differs in a home, in a car, in a public gathering and in a place of worship. Unlike the First Amendment, which states that "Congress shall make no law" in derogation of free speech, press, assembly or religion, the Fourth Amendment applies to prevent unreasonable (accent on word) searches and seizures.

When I go to Temple, I do not expect privacy. I do not undress myself, engage in sexual activity, or undertake other activities that occur in the contact of an expectation of privacy. Thus Fourth Amendment freedoms are far from unlimited.

As for the Fifth Amendment, it does not apply to voluntary utterances, only compelled ones.

Hope I helped.
 
JBG
NDP
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

Sorry. Not being an American, I had to look this up. Here you go:

Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But then again....if you're not doing anything wrong, then the
United States Constitution shouldn't be relevant any longer now,
should it?

See Post Number 15 above. The purpose of the Amendment is to protect reasonable expectations of privacy, Katz v. United States , U.S. Supreme Court decision, 1968 where bug placed in phone booth was found unconstitutional.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#17
Like I mentioned above, I'm not an American and had to draw from past reading.
Hassling someone in their place of worship (& I'm not religious) feels so wrong &
doesn't pass the "smell" test for me. There's something very stinky about it.
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#18
We are somewhat fixated on the Muslim world that is true, there are any number of so called Christian ministers preaching all kinds of intolerant hatred in the name
of religion from the pulpit. I think the world of religion in general should come under the Consumer affairs department. After all these religions preach about heaven and how you can be saved, or what you can expect when you get there.
If that is so, then religion should be able to prove it scientifically, or with some
message from the Great One in the beyond. If not they should not be collecting
all that money tax free, making claims they can't prove.
Most religions at least have some centralized rules the Muslims don't, and there in
lies the problem. The trouble makers come and hide among them and the moderates say nothing, if the Muslim community wants to be taken seriously,
they must clean up their act and denounce those who preach violence and
expose the radicals for who they are. Until they do that, I expect my government
and any other civilized government in the west to spy or or keep an eye on them
as they appear not to be able to police themselves.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by JBG View Post

See Post Number 15 above. The purpose of the Amendment is to protect reasonable expectations of privacy, Katz v. United States , U.S. Supreme Court decision, 1968 where bug placed in phone booth was found unconstitutional.


How 'bout this? This "religious profiling" then doesn't prohibit the free exercise of
the Moslem Religion with armed officers going in and out of the Mosques during
prayers, etc...??? If people are afraid to go to Mosque due to the fear of being
hassled, that would prevent some from going, would it not?
 
JBG
NDP
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

How 'bout this? This "religious profiling" then doesn't prohibit the free exercise of
the Moslem Religion with armed officers going in and out of the Mosques during
prayers, etc...??? If people are afraid to go to Mosque due to the fear of being
hassled, that would prevent some from going, would it not?

As I pointed out before, police go in and out of Jewish synagogues during services. Does that bother us? Why should it bother them?

Oops, preparing for Jihad gets a bit awkward.
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#21
You don't use armed uniformed individuals, you put people undercover. And we should know what these folks are up to. The problem isn't with the mainstream
folks, it with the radicals, and if the Muslims can't police themselves then the
government has to do it for them. There are far to many people who don't understand, we have not declared total war on the Muslims but the radicals have
declared war on us and we need to fight back or get trampled. This is not about
who did what to whom, its about who is going to do what to whom as this conflict
goes on, we haven't seen the worst of this yet. Politics, greed, religion, and money, what more could you want for this drama to play out.
 
JBG
NDP
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy View Post

You don't use armed uniformed individuals, you put people undercover.

Both should be used.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by JBG View Post

As I pointed out before, police go in and out of Jewish synagogues during services. Does that bother us? Why should it bother them?

Oops, preparing for Jihad gets a bit awkward.


Why it would bother them I can't speculate at, as I'm not a Moslem, and I'm taking it
that you aren't either. The fact that it is bothering them is mentioned in the opening
post to this Thread that You posted.


Quote: Originally Posted by JBG View Post

"People are scared," said Sultan Faiz, a leader at Abu Bakar Mosque in Queens. "People are fearful in our community."


Faiz said attendance at the mosque has plunged since the raids.

Hmmmm....yeah, I guess that Profiling isn't prohibiting the free exercise of their
religion then. These visits by armed authorities in their places of worship haven't
affected them at all. You do know American law better than I ever will or ever will
care too. It doesn't make it smell any better to me though.

Don't get me wrong, I think Terrorists should be shot & pissed on, but what's happening
in N.Y. just doesn't feel right to me, and I trust my gut.
 
AnnaG
#24
Western religious institutions should be under surveillance because of Bountiful and pedophiles.
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#25
The Muslim clerics are militant radicals who get their children to be suicide bombers, and kill people. The Christian clerics seem to be after the children for
their personal pleasure. Religion is at the heart of the worlds problems. Or
should we say the guise of religion, it is really more about politics, greed and sex
than it is about the golden rule. The new golden rule is get away with whatever
you can get away with and God will forgive you. If the state has to profile certain
groups to make them behave in society, then so be it.
 
JBG
NDP
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

Western religious institutions should be under surveillance because of Bountiful and pedophiles.

Obviously you jest, or I hope you do.
 
gerryh
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

Western religious institutions should be under surveillance because of Bountiful and pedophiles.

\

say what?????????????
 
Liberalman
Free Thinker
#28
profiling works and puts the criminals away faster
 
missile
Conservative
#29
If it was up to me, I'd have every Moslem in the Western world watched closely.
 
Johnnny
No Party Affiliation
#30
Now now people lets stop for one second.....

Not all muslims are terrorists but the terrorists we are looking for are muslims..... And honestly get them before they get us....

Dont quote me if that offends you get over it
 

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