Capitalism will save this world


darkbeaver
#151
Quote: Originally Posted by Remington1 View Post

Unless I'm mistaken, I and assuming most of us capitalize from the capitalist class. They exploit us to make money, but we need them for our jobs. If anybody does not want to be exploited by this small capitalist class, the option if to not work for them, buy land, farm and live from the land and the sea. We know that socialism does not work, I'm sure we've all seen Cubans homes, versus The Castro's palatial island! or the huge huge divides in China and so call democratic Russia, with it's slave labour. Yup, it's a bitch of a world.

Recent statistics inform us that most Canadians are in debt up to thier ears, I hope you don't confuse that with capitalizing. Do you?
 
Angstrom
#152
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Recent statistics inform us that most Canadians are in debt up to thier ears, I hope you don't confuse that with capitalizing. Do you?

I bet you don't even bank at a cooperative

Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

Historical materialism, comrade.

The problem is in the motivation.

I don't know many people who want to work for free. And cooperations on the scale of corporation require a hard working bunch to compete.
 
HarperCons
#153
Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

You're right. It's argument against arguing against you. You haven't provided an argument to argue against nor have you ever proven that you're worth the time to have an intelligent argument with.



Wow, do you even know what capitalism is?

That's the problem, a total misunderstanding of what capitalism is. It's not technology and modern medicine lol.
 
Angstrom
#154
Most of the socialist I know just want to party and smoke drugs. Hardly the kind of folks that even show up everyday at work.

How are you going to beat capitalist with cooperation with a bunch of goofs like Harpercon?

It's just un realistic. On paper it's a improvement over our current system. But it's never going to happen in reality.
 
HarperCons
+1
#155
Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post

We haven't had a real war in 70+ years.

what the **** qualifies as a "real" war in your mind? there's been no period in history since america's inception where there wasn't war going on, that includes the present time.

Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post

Most of the socialist I know just want to party and smoke drugs. Hardly the kind of folks that even show up everyday at work.

How are you going to beat capitalist with cooperation with a bunch of goofs like Harpercon?

It's just un realistic. On paper it's a improvement over our current system. But it's never going to happen in reality.

you don't make any sense, you're incredibly dumb. you're probably legally retarded and I'm an idiot for even wasting my time with you.
 
Corduroy
#156
Quote: Originally Posted by Remington1 View Post

Unless I'm mistaken, I and assuming most of us capitalize from the capitalist class. They exploit us to make money, but we need them for our jobs.

We need capitalists for jobs because capitalism runs the economy and creates the conditions of our survival. But if capitalism wasn't the model of economic activity, people wouldn't need to subordinate themselves to employers to feed and shelter themselves.

Varying systems of socio-economic organization have come and gone historically. 1000 years ago no one needed the capitalist class for jobs. Most people were subordinated by another class and engaged in other activity for survival Our current condition is not a necessary one.
 
Ludlow
#157
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

WAR stoopid!

no you are
 
darkbeaver
#158
Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post

The problem is in the motivation. I don't know many people who want to work for free. And cooperations on the scale of corporation require a hard working bunch to compete.

They require a docile frightened squimish little people afraid of boggey men and shadows who will work for birdshjt till thier exhausted prematurely. I know lots of people who want you to work for free, and they're doing very well each and everyone.. Will your car battery get you through next winter, have you put away enough potatoes, will we have christmas this year or snow tires? You should read about your hands, work, and dayly bread, and Robbin Hood and William Tell and dozens of others. I like you though, generally a nice young man, with a future.
 
Ludlow
#159
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

They require a docile frightened squimish little people afraid of boggey men and shadows who will work for birdshjt till thier exhausted prematurely. I know lots of people who want you to work for free, and they're doing very well each and everyone.. Will your car battery get you through next winter, have you put away enough potatoes, will we have christmas this year or snow tires? You should read about your hands, work, and dayly bread. I like you though, generally a nice young man, with a future.

get a handle on the spelling people
 
darkbeaver
#160
If you want to be a legend you should humiliate the filthy rich, not the nice rich. You'll know them by thier works.
 
Walter
#161
Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

Varying systems of socio-economic organization have come and gone historically. 1000 years ago no one needed the capitalist class for jobs. Most people were subordinated by another class and engaged in other activity for survival Our current condition is not a necessary one.

And led short, brutal, cold lives.
 
Corduroy
-1
#162
Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post

The problem is in the motivation.

I don't know many people who want to work for free. And cooperations on the scale of corporation require a hard working bunch to compete.

Don't need cooperatives on the scale of corporations, or people working for free, or competition.

Quote: Originally Posted by HarperCons View Post

That's the problem, a total misunderstanding of what capitalism is. It's not technology and modern medicine lol.

Yeah but did you see where we ended up? He thinks workers controlling the means of production would be an improvement over capitalism. Maybe we can just call socialism capitalism and they'd never notice.
 
Angstrom
#163
Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

We need capitalists for jobs because capitalism runs the economy and creates the conditions of our survival. But if capitalism wasn't the model of economic activity, people wouldn't need to subordinate themselves to employers to feed and shelter themselves.

Varying systems of socio-economic organization have come and gone historically. 1000 years ago no one needed the capitalist class for jobs. Most people were subordinated by another class and engaged in other activity for survival Our current condition is not a necessary one.

But it is the one we chose, not because it is the best. We chose because it is the path of least resistance. If all socialist wanted to chose the best option for themselves, they would have opened cooperations for themselves and they would be working their butts off to achieve competitiveness.

But they don't.

My opinion is, Socialist only have themselves to blame, but instead they blame everything but themselves.

If socialist worked as hard at being socialist as capitalist work hard at earning profits for themselves, I think the world today would be very diffrent.
 
darkbeaver
-1
#164
Quote: Originally Posted by Walter View Post

And led short, brutal, cold lives.

So you've been told. Actually the good old days had robust aged populations. Thier diet was better. Thier medicine was better, and they're brains were better.You post short sentences, you have little to say.
Thier religion was closer to the Gods.
 
Angstrom
#165
That's why capitalism will save us.


It stimulates the ultra motivated to seek out reward for problem solving. Something no other system has done
 
Walter
#166
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

So you've been told. Actually the good old days had robust aged populations. Thier diet was better. Thier medicine was better, and they're brains were better.You post short sentences, you have little to say.
Thier religion was closer to the Gods.

Total BS and poppycock.
 
Ludlow
#167
poppycock? What are ya Prince Albert?
 
darkbeaver
+1
#168
Quote: Originally Posted by Walter View Post

Total BS and poppycock.

Thankyou for your attention Walter, we seem to have radically opposed world views, I hope that dosn't interfere with our friendship.
 
Corduroy
#169
Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post

But it is the one we chose, not because it is the best. We chose because it is the path of least resistance. If all socialist wanted to chose the best option for themselves, they would have opened cooperations for themselves and they would be working their butts off to achieve competitiveness.

But they don't.

Competition isn't the point. You're judging the success of cooperatives with criteria used to judge the success of corporations in a capitalist system. Essentially you're saying that cooperatives are not as successful at being corporations as corporations are. My point here is that capitalism isn't necessary, but the arguments that capitalists provide jobs or corporations are successful assume that capitalism is necessary.

And when I say capitalism isn't necessary, I'm not arguing against capitalism. I'm only saying that capitalism isn't the only form of social and economic organization. When people say capitalists provide jobs, they are assuming there is no alternative to capitalism. The point the pro-capitalists need to argue is that capitalism is a better method of socio-economic organization.
 
Angstrom
#170
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Thankyou for your attention Walter, we seem to have radically opposed world views, I hope that dosn't interfere with our friendship.

Your world views may be better then his but they are just a dream. They will never materialize because no one realistically wants to work hard enough to make them happen.
 
darkbeaver
#171
You like classical music Walter, gimme some heavy classical music, symphoney, Batoven wrote some hard stuff, very early Led Zepplin like stuff
 
Angstrom
#172
Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

Competition isn't the point. You're judging the success of cooperatives with criteria used to judge the success of corporations in a capitalist system. Essentially you're saying that cooperatives are not as successful at being corporations as corporations are. My point here is that capitalism isn't necessary, but the arguments that capitalists provide jobs or corporations are successful assume that capitalism is necessary.

And when I say capitalism isn't necessary, I'm not arguing against capitalism. I'm only saying that capitalism isn't the only form of social and economic organization. When people say capitalists provide jobs, they are assuming there is no alternative to capitalism. The point the pro-capitalists need to argue is that capitalism is a better method of socio-economic organization.

That's what I've argued all along,. It's why it will save the world. Because it's a game breaking problem solving algorithm that self motivates itself.
 
darkbeaver
#173
Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post

Your world views may be better then his but they are just a dream. They will never materialize because no one realistically wants to work hard enough to make them happen.

Walters world view and mine are equal, and I believe we have both materialized, you have to work hard to make anything happen except putrifcation. But the work never stops, I bet.
 
Corduroy
#174
Save the world from what?
 
Angstrom
#175
Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

Save the world from what?

From itself.
 
DaSleeper
+1
#176
 
Corduroy
#177
Save the world from the world or save the world from capitalism?
 
Angstrom
#178
Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

Save the world from the world or save the world from capitalism?

Save the world from people.

Environmentally .

Look up the original post link
 
Corduroy
-1
#179
Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post

Save the world from people.

People are the engines of capitalism. You're saying that is it motivational, so people are saving the world from people.

Capitalism and industrialism are different, of course. Nascent capitalism predates industrialization but as human activity negatively impacts the environment, it is industrial activity specifically that does the most damage. The voracious spread of such activity is caused by capitalism. Capitalism is a motivator but that motivator is the profit and expansionist motive of capitalism. If capitalism is going to save the world from widespread environmental destruction, it's saving the world from itself. That's an argument you could make, but let's not say that capitalism isn't the cause of the problem it is supposedly going to solve.
 
darkbeaver
#180
Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post

I bet you don't even bank at a cooperative

You're right, but my brother does, it wil be fixed, soon, when can we build some tanks?
 

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