China will not follow US path of carbon emissions


Tonington
#1
China Won’t Ape US in CO2 Levels as that Would be “World Disaster” | CleanTechnica

The world's climate scientists have agreed for some decades, and increasingly so, that global emissions of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide must be curtailed to keep some semblance of the climate that we evolved to fit over the hundreds of thousands of years that we've been around (and the millions of years that parts of our essential ecosystem that have been supporting us needed to evolve to just right).

But it certainly is reassuring when politicians actually act upon that intelligence.

China's annual emissions as of 2010 are at 6.8 tonnes of carbon dioxide per person, compared to the US figure of 16.9 tonnes. In its per capita emissions, China has now pulled alongside of Italy. At its current rate of growth, China is predicted to match US by 2017 if its increase in production is all fueled by coal-fired power, but the minister says that domestic policies that have been enacted in China have been designed to prevent that from happening are legally binding.

China has a level of investment in nuclear power planned that is completely unprecedented worldwide. Wind and solar have both been doubled in the last six years. A boost in energy efficiency of 40-45% by 2020 is under way. China lays out five year and ten year plans and sticks to them. There's no hostage-taking within China's government to assuage some minister's pet peeves. No filibuster. No whining.
So looks like China was first into the pool...
 
ironsides
#2
The only thing stopping us from increasing our nuclear plant production is the fantastic costs put upon the companies by our politicians with their permits and constant inspections not to mention, whining green organizations. China, India and Brazil will destroy this world with their carbon dioxide long before we will even if we go solar and wind today. (along with building a whole new power grid.) Coal is King in China as well as here and will be for a long time.


 
petros
#3
The sky isn't falling. It's just tilting.
 
captain morgan
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

The world's climate scientists have agreed for some decades, and increasingly so, that global emissions of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide must be curtailed to keep some semblance of the climate that we evolved to fit over the hundreds of thousands of years that we've been around (and the millions of years that parts of our essential ecosystem that have been supporting us needed to evolve to just right).


I don't think that there is any 'consensus' anymore.
 
mentalfloss
#5
To be fair, their industrial growth has come at a time where current technology allows them to be more environmentally friendly than the western world.
 
petros
#6
Technology or willingness to spend on technology?
 
ironsides
+1
#7  Top Rated Post
The American Thinker just wrote that the destructive force on the horizon that is the increase in energy prices over the next few years. They pull a quote from the Chicago Tribune that proves we are in for a rough time as the cost of electricity increases via government regulation instead of natural market forces. Increases in costs within a free market I can understand. With those natural increases comes increased investment into new sources of energy (mainly clean and sometimes cheaper energy) because of the increase in earnings from energy companies they are freer to invest. These investments can take years to play out, but we would be able to wait, because energy price increases would happen slowly over years as well. But no, we won’t be seeing much of that.
Because of environmental regulations put into place during Barack Obama’s short time as our President, coal fired power-plants (which account for 45% of our energy production) must undergo a massive retrofitting process to be more environmentally friendly which I imagine is going to cost more than it’s worth if just one company, American Electric Power is any indication:
"American Electric Power, one of the country’s largest coal-burning electricity generators, said Thursday it will retire nearly a quarter of its coal-fueled generating capacity and that it will spend up to $8 billion to retrofit remaining units to meet regulations that start taking effect in 2014. (Chicago Tribune)"
 
petros
#8
That's nice they are finally going to meet basic standards.
 
Goober
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

China Won’t Ape US in CO2 Levels as that Would be “World Disaster” | CleanTechnica


The world's climate scientists have agreed for some decades, and increasingly so, that global emissions of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide must be curtailed to keep some semblance of the climate that we evolved to fit over the hundreds of thousands of years that we've been around (and the millions of years that parts of our essential ecosystem that have been supporting us needed to evolve to just right).

But it certainly is reassuring when politicians actually act upon that intelligence.

China's annual emissions as of 2010 are at 6.8 tonnes of carbon dioxide per person, compared to the US figure of 16.9 tonnes. In its per capita emissions, China has now pulled alongside of Italy. At its current rate of growth, China is predicted to match US by 2017 if its increase in production is all fueled by coal-fired power, but the minister says that domestic policies that have been enacted in China have been designed to prevent that from happening are legally binding.

China has a level of investment in nuclear power planned that is completely unprecedented worldwide. Wind and solar have both been doubled in the last six years. A boost in energy efficiency of 40-45% by 2020 is under way. China lays out five year and ten year plans and sticks to them. There's no hostage-taking within China's government to assuage some minister's pet peeves. No filibuster. No whining.
So looks like China was first into the pool...

And that is why they open 2 coal powered plants per week - It used to be one a few years back, soon it will be three. Coal is plentiful, many are employed by the coal industry and the economy need for power is increasing.
You mention that China make a plan and sticks to it – Not held hostage to a minister pet projects etc.

That is incorrect – Check the political makeup of China’s Elite – The Princelings for one – How many control major companies or large parts of other companies. They are all dividing up the pie of excess cash. Start chopping a company’s power to produce and it depends upon who owns it, who their Rabbi is and on and on.
Corruption at the State and Provincial level is massive. Crackdown on corruption within China are a longstanding joke.
There is still an ongoing power struggle within the ruling party.

Now if you think China will meet those self imposed standards, I say you are in error.
 
Tonington
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Now if you think China will meet those self imposed standards, I say you are in error.

China meets five-year energy efficiency goals | Leonardo ENERGY
China’s economic growth has been threatened by inefficient use of energy, and as a result, the nation launched a national campaign to reduce losses in energy-consuming industries, with a focus on electricity generation and steel during this five-year plan.

During the period, China replaced outdated thermal power plants with facilities that are more environmentally friendly. According to their National Energy Administration head, Zhang Guobao, this move saved more than 300 million tons of coal per year.

He also said the nation also made gains in clean energy use, including hydroelectric power, nuclear, and wind power. Combined, these investments are generating more than 3 trillion kilowatts of electricity while also saving roughly 1.5 billion tons of coal. Guobao also said the clean energy gains reduced carbon dioxide emissions by nearly 3 billion tons.

China is now working on its 12th Five-Year Program, which ends in 2015. As a part of this program, the NEA is launching pilot programs for energy savings and emission reduction, including expanding the number of households that use methane gas in rural areas to 60 million. They also plan to build 3,000 methane gas stations by the end of 2015.

Anyways, the deniers here in North America have frequently cited China as a reason to avoid any plans to reduce emissions or to implement wide scale energy saving plans. China is doing far better than we are, and they are going to have the expertise and manufacturing capacity to meet the worlds demand for more efficient technology. The cost of manufacturing in China is rising with their wage growth, so it makes sense for them to be manufacturing higher value items.


They will be eating our lunch yet again.
 
Ron in Regina
#11
Measurements "per person" diluted over a population of a Billion people?
Can that influence the tilt of the numbers to appear better than they really are?
 
Tonington
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

Measurements "per person" diluted over a population of a Billion people?
Can that influence the tilt of the numbers to appear better than they really are?



It's just a rate...on absolute emissions they're already past the US. But let's entertain the skeptics for a moment, why do Western nations deserve permanently higher rates of energy consumption in the face of such a big problem?
 
Goober
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

China meets five-year energy efficiency goals | Leonardo ENERGY

China’s economic growth has been threatened by inefficient use of energy, and as a result, the nation launched a national campaign to reduce losses in energy-consuming industries, with a focus on electricity generation and steel during this five-year plan.

During the period, China replaced outdated thermal power plants with facilities that are more environmentally friendly. According to their National Energy Administration head, Zhang Guobao, this move saved more than 300 million tons of coal per year.

He also said the nation also made gains in clean energy use, including hydroelectric power, nuclear, and wind power. Combined, these investments are generating more than 3 trillion kilowatts of electricity while also saving roughly 1.5 billion tons of coal. Guobao also said the clean energy gains reduced carbon dioxide emissions by nearly 3 billion tons.

China is now working on its 12th Five-Year Program, which ends in 2015. As a part of this program, the NEA is launching pilot programs for energy savings and emission reduction, including expanding the number of households that use methane gas in rural areas to 60 million. They also plan to build 3,000 methane gas stations by the end of 2015.

Anyways, the deniers here in North America have frequently cited China as a reason to avoid any plans to reduce emissions or to implement wide scale energy saving plans. China is doing far better than we are, and they are going to have the expertise and manufacturing capacity to meet the worlds demand for more efficient technology. The cost of manufacturing in China is rising with their wage growth, so it makes sense for them to be manufacturing higher value items.


They will be eating our lunch yet again.

Please review the ecological damage alone cause by China damming every river is sight. Check the environmental damages that are reeking untold medical /health problems - These affect millions of Chinese every day- not only now but for generations to come.
 
Tonington
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Please review the ecological damage alone cause by China damming every river is sight. Check the environmental damages that are reeking untold medical /health problems - These affect millions of Chinese every day- not only now but for generations to come.

I'm aware of all of that, what does this have to do with the price of tea in...oh wait. What does this have to do with them meeting their targets on energy policy? They've done better than Canada has, or the US. Not better than Europe though.
 
Goober
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

I'm aware of all of that, what does this have to do with the price of tea in...oh wait. What does this have to do with them meeting their targets on energy policy? They've done better than Canada has, or the US. Not better than Europe though.

Myself I do not believe they will meet their standard. China is already considering removing many dams due to the problems associated with dams. Unexpected consequences - The last and biggest is also on the list.
 
Vaessen
#16
meh.