Zionist Control of US Policy


tracy
#31
..................
 
Colpy
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by Tyr View Post

I doubt the USA would have been "overwhelmed" by Jewish refugees, as they could have done the same as Canada, and simply refused to take them in.....with the full compliance of the general population.

which they are within their rights to do so.

Oh absolutely!

I think that, if wise, both the USA and Canada would have taken in as many European Jews as possible, but that does not mean they should have been required to do so.....

That is what makes our immigration/refugee policies such a joke.....if you are not a citizen, you have NO right to be here, and we can, and often should, boot your arse out on our whim.
 
Colpy
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

Do you have a problem separating Church from State?

I'll expand on what Tracy said, although she is correct.

First of all, seperation of Church and State is an AMERICAN concept, not Canadian, as so aptly demonstrated by the fact that our Head of State is also head of the Anglican Church.

Secondly, even in the USA, the constitutional divide is very slight.....it simply requires that Congress make no law establishing an official gov't religion........that is it. That has been wildly expanded by the "living Constitution" crew, as sorry a bunch as one can imagine IMHO.

Thirdly, you can not seperate Church and State in a nation that is a democracy.....and very religious. If religion is a major factor in peoples' lives, it will influence how they vote and what they expect from gov't.....so the divide is never that wide.....
 
lone wolf
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

I'll expand on what Tracy said, although she is correct.

First of all, seperation of Church and State is an AMERICAN concept, not Canadian, as so aptly demonstrated by the fact that our Head of State is also head of the Anglican Church.

Secondly, even in the USA, the constitutional divide is very slight.....it simply requires that Congress make no law establishing an official gov't religion........that is it. That has been wildly expanded by the "living Constitution" crew, as sorry a bunch as one can imagine IMHO.

Thirdly, you can not seperate Church and State in a nation that is a democracy.....and very religious. If religion is a major factor in peoples' lives, it will influence how they vote and what they expect from gov't.....so the divide is never that wide.....

Considering the topic is Zionist control of US policy your point is wasted too, Colpy....
 
earth_as_one
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov View Post

Lets go over this.

1.) Its actually more recent history than Israel in many cases.
2.) They are not treated better, many reserves are far worse off than Gaza during the blockade which you called a warcrime. Well more than 20% of Gazans had potable water in the worst of times.

3.)We also only settle disputes peacefully when we aren't shot at, and even then its not settling a dispute through consensus, its us deciding how things will be settled.

Israel by comparison has done more than token gestures, already haven offered independance and given back a majority of total land in exchange for peace with Egypt.

I don't see anything to that magnitude in any North American nation.

Unrelated to this Topic: In any war with Israel that Jordan and Egypt would try, it would end up worse than the last times they tried it, its just giving more land to Israel.

You also don't grasp that the "nuclear holocaust" would not cause Israel to be over run, best case scenario for the attackers would be MAD, in which there would be nobody in the middle east of any faith. Realistically if Israel lost ties with the USA, it would just make a crapload with its own arms industry supplying rogue states, and if that failed, probably crumble as a democracy and whipe out the neighbouring hostile nations. Its generally a bad idea to try and crush a nuclear armed nation, thats why people propped up Russia after the cold war.

You are saying that Gazans are better off than First Nation reserves are here in Canada??? I admit the state of many First Nation Reserves are a disgrace, but you can't expect anyone to take you seriously with comments like the above.

Gaza Destruction
YouTube - Destruction in Gaza by the Israeli offensive

From Oxfam
YouTube - Destruction in Gaza, filmed by Oxfam International

Shattered Lives
YouTube - destruction in gaza
 
Cannuck
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

Considering the topic is Zionist control of US policy your point is wasted too, Colpy....

No point is ever wasted if even one person learns anything from it.
 
earth_as_one
#37
I can't tell any difference between American foreign policy and Israeli foreign policy. What AIPAC says is important, the US says is important.

AIPAC - Issue Analysis

This youtube short discusses how US foreign policy has become so focused on Israel that US foreign policy is no longer in US national interests.
YouTube - The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy

Quote:

A Letter To Aipac

By Betty McCollum

The letter below was sent by Representative Betty McCollum, a Democrat from Minnesota, to the executive director of AIPAC. The bill mentioned, H.R. 4681, the Palestinian Anti-Terrorism Act of 2006, would place so many restraints on aid to the Palestinian people, and so many restrictions on the administration's ability to deal with the Palestinians, that even the State Department has opposed it. AIPAC has strongly backed it. The Senate version of the bill, S. 2237, would allow the administration far more flexibility. On April 6, the House International Relations Committee passed H.R. 4681 by a vote of 36 to 2; McCollum was one of the two nays. As of May 11, AIPAC has yet to respond to her demand for an apology.

—Michael Massing
April 10, 2006
Mr. Howard Kohr
Executive Director
American Israel Public Affairs Committee
440 First Street, NW; Suite 600
Washington, D.C. 20001
Dear Mr. Kohr:
During my nineteen years serving in elected office, including the past five years as a Member of Congress, never has my name and reputation been maligned or smeared as it was last week by a representative of AIPAC. Last Friday, during a call with my chief of staff, an AIPAC representative from Minnesota who has frequently lobbied me on behalf of your organization stated, "on behalf of herself, the Jewish community, AIPAC, and the voters of the Fourth District, Congresswoman McCollum's support for terrorists will not be tolerated." Ironically, this individual, who does not even live in my congressional district, feels free to speak for my constituents.
This response may have been the result of extreme emotion or irrational passion, but regardless, it is a hateful attack that is vile and offensive to me and the families I represent. I call on AIPAC to immediately condemn this un-American attack and disavow any attempt to use this type of threat and intimidation to stifle legitimate policy differences. I will not stand to be labeled or threatened in a manner that questions my patriotism or my oath of office.
Last week, I did vote against H.R. 4681 during mark-up of the bill in the House International Relations Committee. As a Member of Congress sworn to uphold the Constitution, and ensure the security of the US and represent the values and beliefs of the constituents who I serve, it was my view that H.R. 4681 goes beyond the State Department's current policies toward Hamas and the Palestinian Authority and potentially undermines the US position vis-à-vis the coordinated international pressure on Hamas. The language contained in S. 2237 accurately reflects my position.
Keeping diplomatic pressure on Hamas to renounce terrorism, recognize the State of Israel, dismantle terrorist infrastructure, and honor past agreements and treaty obligations, while preventing a humanitarian crisis among the Palestinian people, are all policy goals already strongly supported by myself, the Bush administration, Congress and the American people. But, if the purpose of H.R. 4681 was to send another strong message to Hamas and the Palestinian people, as Congress already has sent with the passage of S. Con. Res. 79, then I disagree with the vehicle for that message. In my opinion, Congress should be articulating clear support for the Secretary of State's present course of action; not creating a new law which likely diminishes the diplomatic tools needed to advance US policy goals with regard to the Palestinian people, potentially cuts US funding to the United Nations, and largely restates current law while creating on-going and burdensome unfunded reporting requirements.
As you well know, in Congress we do not shy away from condemning the vile words of despots and dictators who use anti-Semitism as a weapon to incite hatred, fear and violence. AIPAC should not have a lower standard for persons affiliated and representing its organization when they label a Member of Congress who thinks for herself and always puts the interest of our nation and people first a supporter of terrorists.
You and your colleagues at AIPAC have the right to disagree with my position on any piece of legislation, but for an AIPAC representative to say that I would ever vote to support Middle East terrorists over the interests of my country will never be tolerated by me or the families I serve. This incident rises to a level in which a formal, written apology is required.
Mr. Kohr, I am a supporter of a strong US–Israeli relationship and my voting record speaks for itself. This will not change. But until I receive a formal, written apology from your organization I must inform you that AIPAC representatives are not welcome in my offices or for meetings with my staff.
Betty McCollum
Member of Congress
4th District, Minnesota
Washington, D.C.

A Letter To Aipac - The New York Review of Books

 
gopher
+1
#38
''This stuff is simply idiotic.....and perhaps you could explain why Bush et al have refused repeatedly (and unwisely) to support an Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear sites?''


What nuclear sites are you talking about? The IAEA has said Iran does not have nukes.

Why not bomb Israel's nuclear sites instead?

The thought of defending the Zionist warmongers is idiotic.
 
darkbeaver
#39
Olmert’s Poodle

By Patrick J. Buchanan

January 18, 2009 "
American Conservative " --- As Israel entered the third week of its Gaza blitz, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert regaled a crowd in Ashkelon with an astonishing tale.


 
gopher
+1
#40
''you can not seperate Church and State in a nation that is a democracy.....''


The USA is a democracy and it has thrived under disestablishment.

When Gibbons wrote The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire he attributed that society's dissolution to its adoption of Christianity as its official religion.
 
darkbeaver
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

I'll expand on what Tracy said, although she is correct.

First of all, seperation of Church and State is an AMERICAN concept, not Canadian, as so aptly demonstrated by the fact that our Head of State is also head of the Anglican Church.

Secondly, even in the USA, the constitutional divide is very slight.....it simply requires that Congress make no law establishing an official gov't religion........that is it. That has been wildly expanded by the "living Constitution" crew, as sorry a bunch as one can imagine IMHO.

Thirdly, you can not seperate Church and State in a nation that is a democracy.....and very religious. If religion is a major factor in peoples' lives, it will influence how they vote and what they expect from gov't.....so the divide is never that wide.....

Nice tidy explanation Colpy. Now if religion could be replaced with the truth we would have nirvana.
 
Cannuck
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Now if religion could be replaced with the truth we would have nirvana.

But if we replaced religion would we not lose nirvana. Isn't the concept derived from Buddhism and Jainism. Why don't we such say we would have a really great high.
 
Scott Free
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Although I'm now gonna try and tear it apart.......

I should hope so

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

I doubt the USA would have been "overwhelmed" by Jewish refugees, as they could have done the same as Canada, and simply refused to take them in.....with the full compliance of the general population.

Not likely if the USA was the reason that Israel couldn't form. It was also US policy not to side with the Arabs. It was their intention to stay neutral and leave the tough stuff to Britain, however, that didn't work out so well.

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

You are dead on that the USA used Israel as a counter to Soviet presence in the ME during the Cold War.

Well a guy can't be wrong all the time - can they?

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

But I think you missed the reason for continued American support for Israel, which is, let's face it, very ofter counter-productive to American interest in the region.......I think there are four basic reasons for it:

1. History: the Jewish state used to be the darling of the progressives with the Kibbutz and the powerful Labour party and the fact so many were persecuted by the Nazis, and they were seen as the underdog........I remember the awe, the admiration, the glee at Israeli success in the Six Day War.........little Israel, nation of a devasted ethnic group, the 99 pound guy that was always beaten up, kicks the bully-boy (Egypt) in the kneecaps, and when the bully's buddies come to save him, little Israel pounds the bejesus out of all comers, in very little time....truth or not, that is the "inspiring" vision most Americans had at the time.

An emotional response was not Truman's reason. I suspect he worried that the Jews would seek the aid of the USSR at that time. It was a very big concern that Zionism was a kind of communism.

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

2. Ideology: the Jewish state is seen as being "one of us" with a working constitution, a viable robust democratic tradition, a dedication to western values.........they are seen as a natural ally surrounded by vicious Arab despots, the best of which is an actual King, fer God's sake.......worthy of our aid.......

That is modern rhetoric and as I said in my original argument it is easier to sustain established friendships then forge new ones and this alone is why it seems as though the two have similar interests.

The reality is that the Americans were doing great business in the ME and were having no problems with the Arabs. The US is only ever concerned with democracy and freedom when that concern is in their best interest. We see an example of that in their lack of support for Hamas and Chavez who were both democratically elected and should therefore warrant US support and also in Saudi Arabia which is now going to own a brand new shiny US nuclear reactor!

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

3. Militarily: A dependable foothold in a strategic position. Very strategiic.

It is only now. The US could have forged an alliance with any ME country before they aligned with Israel - even Iran or Palestine! The problems and differences we see today stem solely from the USA's support of Israel and are not ideological (though they are spun that way to rally popular support).

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

4. As Israel was the baby of the intellectual moderate left, it is now the baby of the religious right.......how could any good bible-thumper, be anti-Israel?????

You have got to be kidding me. The lunatic right supports Isreal only because they think once they have their country god will wipe them out - hardly supportive - and then Mithra, oops... I mean Jesus, will return.

It is very difficult for me to write out all the quotes and evidence for my statements but they mostly come from this source: Power, Faith and Fantasy by Michael B. Oren. It seems to be an excellent book on this topic. I'm certainly no expert but he for sure is. The version of things your giving is the fantasy and propaganda that always contributes to the cloud of war, which BTW I fully understand, since I too subscribed to the popular rhetoric until I had read this more neutral matter of fact version of events.
Last edited by Scott Free; Jan 20th, 2009 at 12:53 AM..
 
Zzarchov
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

You are saying that Gazans are better off than First Nation reserves are here in Canada??? I admit the state of many First Nation Reserves are a disgrace, but you can't expect anyone to take you seriously with comments like the above.


Are you serious? Thats your utter tragedy?

Broken houses? 10,000 homeless out of 1.5 million people, do the math on that one. Do you know what MOST of Gaza looks like? Not that. Most of it is untouched.

Even those images, ya..you do see things like that on native resereves through disrepair and lack of income instead of bombs though.

The difference is that instead of being fixed by government (Israeli or Canadian) aid in a month, families will continue to live in dillapidated structures.

You have such a very sheltered view of the world. If you don't know how our own country is, I can only guess at how horrible this Gaza issue must seem to you.

But its not as big as you make it out to be. People just care more about what Israel is doing than the suffering of Natives, or Africans, or South Americans or South Asians etcetera etcetera.
 
einmensch
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Oh Gimme a break!

Olmert hardly has any influence in Israel, much less Washington.

My guess is that Olmert offered to do the unilateral ceasefire in so many days.......bargaining for time.

This stuff is simply idiotic.....and perhaps you could explain why Bush et al have refused repeatedly (and unwisely) to support an Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear sites?

Broken puppet strings?

Why would you want another break?

Explain why we had a 14-0 vote with the USA abstaining?
 
einmensch
#46
Oh Zz-You visited Gaza? Or did you get a pamphlet, that this is the official word ?
 
Zzarchov
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch View Post

Oh Zz-You visited Gaza? Or did you get a pamphlet, that this is the official word ?

Have you? Can you prove that is even a signifigant minority of the region let alone a majority?

Tens of Thousands homeless but 1.5 million people. Basic math.
 
einmensch
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov View Post

Have you? Can you prove that is even a signifigant minority of the region let alone a majority?

Tens of Thousands homeless but 1.5 million people. Basic math.


Everything is just wonderful in the Gaza Ghetto. Thank you for your unbiased point of view.
 
Zzarchov
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch View Post

Everything is just wonderful in the Gaza Ghetto. Thank you for your unbiased point of view.

And apparently everyone is dead in Gaza, everyone, in your unbiased view.

Except you have made your distinct hatred for Jews quite well known, while I have nothing distincly for or against either group, seeing them as simply human beings.
 
earth_as_one
#50
Get serious Z. I've been to native reserves and communities throughout Ontario, Manitoba and Nunavut. Yes many have problems. Yes Canada should be ashamed regarding some of them. But no not a single one I've seen is worse than Gaza.

Quote:

UN chief visits Gaza as forces leave
By Ethan Bronner Published: January 21, 2009

...Ban, the highest-ranking international figure to come to Gaza since the war, visited the United Nations compound, damaged by an Israeli airstrike. He called the attack "outrageous" and demanded an investigation. He said Israel had used excessive force in Gaza. After touring the area, Ban called the destruction "shocking and alarming."

Later, he visited Sderot, the southern Israeli town that had long borne the brunt of Hamas rocket fire, and called such projectiles "appalling," saying their use violates international law. Still, he said, Israel should lift the border closing it had imposed on Gaza, strangling its economy...

UN chief visits Gaza as forces leave - International Herald Tribune


But we are off topic.
 
einmensch
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov View Post

And apparently everyone is dead in Gaza, everyone, in your unbiased view.

Except you have made your distinct hatred for Jews quite well known, while I have nothing distincly for or against either group, seeing them as simply human beings.

Do you feel hated? Abnormal as it is, it is part of your personality. Death toll in Gaza Ghetto 1284 dead, 4336 wounded. 894 of the dead were civilians, including 280 children and minors 17 and under, as well as 111 women. 70% murdered by Israelis were civilians. Israel doesn't target civilians they just have accidents 70% of the time. Guess what 4 out ofthe 10 soldiers killed were killed by Israelis. So 40% of the time by accident they kill their own. Oh Zz you are such a mensch.
 
Zzarchov
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

Get serious Z. I've been to native reserves and communities throughout Ontario, Manitoba and Nunavut. Yes many have problems. Yes Canada should be ashamed regarding some of them. But no not a single one I've seen is worse than Gaza.




But we are off topic.


No, its on Topic. When did you go to Gaza? If you've looked around and honestly believe a place that even HAS hospitals is worse than any reserve in Canada, then that kinda settles it now doesnt it?
 
Colpy
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch View Post

Do you feel hated? Abnormal as it is, it is part of your personality. Death toll in Gaza Ghetto 1284 dead, 4336 wounded. 894 of the dead were civilians, including 280 children and minors 17 and under, as well as 111 women. 70% murdered by Israelis were civilians. Israel doesn't target civilians they just have accidents 70% of the time. Guess what 4 out ofthe 10 soldiers killed were killed by Israelis. So 40% of the time by accident they kill their own. Oh Zz you are such a mensch.

First of all, let's set out some facts:

Gaza has i.5 million people. Hamas claims 35,000 armed militants in Gaza (doubtful, but we'll take it on that.....)

1284 dead. 4336 wounded. 5620 Gazan casualties total.

It is claimed 894 of the dead were civilians, 390 were militants, which is a 70:30 split innocents to militant casualties.

But wait! Israel claims they can prove 700 dead militants! That is a 46:54 split innocent casualties to militant casualties.

Let's deal with the Israeli claims first....... 46:54 leaves us with 2586 civilian casualties. that means one out of every 580 civilians was harmed, according to the Israelis. As for militants: the Israeli claim would mean 3034 militant casualties, or one out of every 12 militants. That means you were 48 times more apt to be a casualty if you were a militant, by Israeli calculation.

But, Israel is not always perfectly truthful, so lets us the other figues, the 7:3 ratio innocent to militant casualty......even that means 1 out of every 381 Gazan civilians was wounded or killed. One out of every 20 Hamas militants was wounded or killed. That means you were 19 times more apt to be a casualty if you were a militant.......

Israel attacked for 20 days, using the most sophisticated conventional weapons on earth, firing at an enemy hiding amongest the densest population on earth......yet managed to make being a militant AT LEAST19 times as dangerous as being a civilian in Gaza, perhaps as much as 48 times as dangerous.

Targeting civilians?????

Hardly..
 
darkbeaver
#54
Israel, what a disgusting bunch of psycopaths. Who's going to miss them when they're gone?
When you target civilian infrastructure you target civilians. Is that simple enough for you Colpy? Israel and the USA are the same nation.
 
DurkaDurka
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Israel, what a disgusting bunch of psycopaths. Who's going to miss them when they're gone?
When you target civilian infrastructure you target civilians. Is that simple enough for you Colpy? Israel and the USA are the same nation.

So that makes you both a zionist and a yank since Canada is just a satellite state of the US? Must be tough being a zionist beaver these days...
 
darkbeaver
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurka View Post

So that makes you both a zionist and a yank since Canada is just a satellite state of the US? Must be tough being a zionist beaver these days...

You are right Durka, I'll off myself soon as I finish the beer.
 
einmensch
#57
With sofisticated weapons and GPS co-ordinates provided Israel hit a UN compound. 20,000 buildings-they were all occupied by Hamas fighters. It's sad Colpy. I know what a bombed city looks like and Loon probably does as well. Agreed, the leaders all lie. Poor mothers, children and old--
 
Zzarchov
#58
Quote: Originally Posted by einmensch View Post

With sofisticated weapons and GPS co-ordinates provided Israel hit a UN compound. 20,000 buildings-they were all occupied by Hamas fighters. It's sad Colpy. I know what a bombed city looks like and Loon probably does as well. Agreed, the leaders all lie. Poor mothers, children and old--


Then you should know that in a "bombed out city" of 1.5 million, in a region of 5 million, there are double digit percentages of homeless, not tens of thousands, but hundreds of thousands.
 
einmensch
#59
Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov View Post

Then you should know that in a "bombed out city" of 1.5 million, in a region of 5 million, there are double digit percentages of homeless, not tens of thousands, but hundreds of thousands.

You are correct Zz since it seems that many of these house sheltered circa 25 persons each 20,000 X 25=500,000 homless. Just imagine 500,000 or 10% of the Jews being homeless, no food, now hydro, no fuel, no water and sealed in by a monster. Warsaw Ghetto you say--only in Palestine in 2009
 
Gilgamesh
#60
Quote: Originally Posted by Stretch View Post

January 17, 2009

Zionist Control of US Policy


Source

I was recently asked to answer the following question: In the original post there is mention of Israel controlling US policy. How exactly does that work?

The short answer is this: A highly influential and extremely well bankrolled collection of groups directs energy simultaneously in a number of directions: Political, media, academic, inter-faith, and other areas, in order to create consent for Israel's policies and to sway politicians to support those policies. The rest of this article examines this process in greater detail, primarily through the words of academics who have studied it for years.

To my mind, Israel's actions, and the extent to which they are enabled by the power of the Zionist lobby is -- or at least should be -- the central moral question confronting Jewish people worldwide, and especially in the US.

To the extent that it isn't, is the clearest indication of the moral degeneration, and ironically, the existential purposelessness which Zionism -- as an answer -- has provided to the Jewish people.

Israel's actions should be of equal concern to any human concerned with Justice and minimizing human suffering, especially Americans and Europeans whose governments support these unjust and genocidal polices, which potentially threaten to escalate and consume the entire world

MORE........ Atheo News: Zionist Control of US Policy

You are not only a sick moronic fool, you are also a liar. The true enemy of society today is the secret agents of the Klingon Empire.
 

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