Jews against Zionist


aeon
#1
A nice website, for those who think israel is doing great towards palestinians, check out this one, and see what real jew think about it.


Quote:

True Torah Jews is dedicated to informing the world and in particular the American public and politicians that all Jews do not support the ideology of the Zionist state called "Israel" which is diametrically opposite to the teachings of traditional Judaism

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/about/mission.cfm


http://www.btinternet.com/~sapere.aude/jaz.html

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

http://www.jewishpeacefellowship.org/




Thank god, there is awaken peoples around the world.
 
#juan
No Party Affiliation
#2
This is my favourite site regarding this subject.

It is written by Jews who were , and are there. Judge for yourselves whether you think the writers are right, wrong, or whatever. These people have no reason ti lie.

http://www.cactus48.com/
 
sanch
#3
You just woke up? LOL

There is a strong tradition of critique of Israel in the Jewish community. In New York the demonstrations are usually held at Union Square if you are interested. Or you could read Noam Chomsky.

It is this example that is lacking among moderate Muslims in the West. I am now starting to see this more in reference to a lack of prominent roles in countries like Canada which reduces the influence and authority of these individuals to speak out. There is a power imbalance. It would have been better perhaps for Harper to appoint a Muslim to a cabinet position. That would have been a start in the right direction.
 
nitzomoe
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by sanch

It is this example that is lacking among moderate Muslims in the West. I am now starting to see this more in reference to a lack of prominent roles in countries like Canada which reduces the influence and authority of these individuals to speak out.

simply not true, the vast mahority of muslim organizations are overly critical and very outspoken about events, whether it be 9/11 or wearing headscarfs in class. Especially on university campus a lot of moderate muslims organizations exist and are functional.

the problem has more to do with canadian medias apparent lack intelligence in interviewing ppl, either its a really wahhabist imam from some obscure mosque that doesnt exist or irshad manji who has no clue what islam is but likes writing books about the subject.
 
Jay
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by aeon

and see what real jew think about it.

.


So this problem you have has led you to believe all jewish people who think a particular way are real Jews, and the others are....fake Jews?
 
aeon
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Jay

Quote: Originally Posted by aeon

and see what real jew think about it.

.


So this problem you have has led you to believe all jewish people who think a particular way are real Jews, and the others are....fake Jews?


Real jew are jews, Zionist are extremist in the guise of jew, this is what i meant.
 
missile
Conservative
#7
Doing great for Palestinians? Depends on how you interpret that. They are doing a fantastic job of killing them.
 
Machjo
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by aeon





Thank god, there is awaken peoples around the world.

Actually, they didn't simply awaken. The idea that Israel was not to reappear as a nation prior to the return of the Messiah is the traditional posisition held by mainstream Jews until the turn of the last century. Many anti-zionist Jews are what some would refer to as ultra-orthodox in that they continue to maintian the traditional and Biblical stance, thus never having changed from the original stance in the first place.

As Zionism began to spread, the early Zionists had to fight hard to get their political message across to the mainstream of the Jewish community, often having to use scare tactics and other political devices (or ought I say vices?) as politicians do. Even those Jews living in Palestine and living peacefully side by side with the Palestinians were opposed to the state of Israel at the time that Zionism first appeared on the scene.

So there really is no "awakening" among the anti-Zionist Jews so much as a having remained awake all along. Those who chose to leave Judaism or Christianity and convert to Zionism are the ones who chose to close their eyes.

Zionism is the
 
neallo
#9
if they have muslim states, what's wrong with a jewish state? so what the palestinians are then right to kill the innocent?
 
Jersay
#10
Quote:

if they have muslim states, what's wrong with a jewish state? so what the palestinians are then right to kill the innocent?

What are you talking about.

Why do the Israelis have a right to kill Palestinian civilians, they have done alot more killings then the Palestinians.
 
I think not
#11
I'm just curious what would be a solution to all those that want the Jews booted from Israel. What's your solution? I have never heard of any other than criticizism of the status quo.
 
Jersay
#12
I don't want Jews booted from Israel. I want a independent Palestine and a Independent Israel.
 
Machjo
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by neallo

if they have muslim states, what's wrong with a jewish state? so what the palestinians are then right to kill the innocent?

Palestinians are not correct in killing innocents. But from a strictly biblical standpoint, the current state of Israel causes the jews headaches. According to the Bible, Israel would reappear after the comming of the Messiah. So does that mean the Messiah has returned. As for the political question, as long as UN laws are respected, I don't care. As for teh theologica, I'm not Jewish so also don't care. But I do find it an interesting dilemma for them none-the-less. Trouble in the family?
 
Machjo
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not

I'm just curious what would be a solution to all those that want the Jews booted from Israel. What's your solution? I have never heard of any other than criticizism of the status quo.

Prior to Zionism, Jews and Arabs lived peacefully in Palestine. history will back this up. It's only since the rise of Zionism that the problems arose. Visit some Muslim forums and you'll see that the major issue for them is Zionsim, not Judaism. As far as they are concerned, they want the Zionists out, but teh Jes can stay.
 
Ali Mahdi
#15
I, and most Muslims, don't have a problem with Jews, (in general), it's the Zionists we hate. Jews can stay in Palestine, we just want "Israel" destroyed so there can be peace, and ONE state for Palestinians and Jews that doesn't discriminate on the basis of race and religion.
 
Jay
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not

I'm just curious what would be a solution to all those that want the Jews booted from Israel. What's your solution? I have never heard of any other than criticizism of the status quo.

Can you say New York?
 
I think not
#17
Why? Is there something wrong with London? We have plenty of Jews and Muslims in Nooooo Yawk.
 
Jay
#18
Oh no you don't....you need more.


Who is going to eat all those bagels you guys make down there?
 
I think not
#19
We can export bagels to London, Ontario, noooooooo problemo.
 
Jay
#20
We are Zionists up here....
 
neallo
#21
I'm just curious what would be a solution to all those that want the Jews booted from Israel. What's your solution? I have never heard of any other than criticizism of the status quo.

my solution is to kick everyone out, then burn everything to the grounds, after salt the ground so nothing can grow there. and then we will have peace [/quote]
 
Dexter Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

Prior to Zionism, Jews and Arabs lived peacefully in Palestine. history will back this up.

No it won't. There's been more or less constant warfare in that part of the world for about 3500 years, including at least two creations and destructions of a Jewish state.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ali Mahdi

...we just want "Israel" destroyed...

Ah. That's the moderate position, is it, the destruction of Israel? The extremist critics of Islam would appear to be right, based on that.

Quote:

...so there can be peace...

You really think the destruction of Israel would help achieve that? Such naivety is staggering. Think the United States would sit by and let that happen?

Quote:

...and ONE state for Palestinians and Jews...

Oh sure, that'll work... It's way past too late for that. The waters have been poisoned.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Ali Mahdi

I, and most Muslims, don't have a problem with Jews, (in general), it's the Zionists we hate. Jews can stay in Palestine, we just want "Israel" destroyed so there can be peace, and ONE state for Palestinians and Jews that doesn't discriminate on the basis of race and religion.

Oh yeah, RIGHT!

Perhaps now you would like to explain to me what happened to the Jewish communities in Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia......etc.

Compare that with the treatment of the Arab community in Israel.

Then go to the corner and hang your head in shame for your people.
 
Machjo
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

Prior to Zionism, Jews and Arabs lived peacefully in Palestine. history will back this up.

No it won't. There's been more or less constant warfare in that part of the world for about 3500 years, including at least two creations and destructions of a Jewish state.

http://www.zionismexplained.org/
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/history.cfm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab-Israeli_conflict

And of course there are plenty more resources (just do a google search) indicating that the orthodox Jews living in the land of Palestine prior to the birth of Zionism lived peacefully side by side with the Palestinians, ever since the Automan Empire had passed the law of return in 1844 allowing Jews return to the Holy Land.
 
Machjo
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

Quote: Originally Posted by Ali Mahdi

I, and most Muslims, don't have a problem with Jews, (in general), it's the Zionists we hate. Jews can stay in Palestine, we just want "Israel" destroyed so there can be peace, and ONE state for Palestinians and Jews that doesn't discriminate on the basis of race and religion.

Oh yeah, RIGHT!

Perhaps now you would like to explain to me what happened to the Jewish communities in Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia......etc.

Compare that with the treatment of the Arab community in Israel.

Then go to the corner and hang your head in shame for your people.

Just a point here; just as some Jews oppose Zionism, some Muslims equally oppose the politicization of their religion also. I don't know where Ali Mahdi stands on this one, but before making an assumption that he's two-faced, let's ask him first. If he's equally opposed to the politicization of both judaism and Islam, then I see nothing for him to be ashamed of, since there is then no double standard there.
 
Dexter Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

I don't know where Ali Mahdi stands on this one

Seems pretty clear he stands for the destruction of Israel, which for me renders any other of his opinions not worth taking seriously. Not that I have any particular feelings for Israel one way or another, but destroying countries doesn't seem to be a useful solution to anything. That'd just create a Jewish version of Hamas and the PLO, and things would remain pretty much as they are.

That's the Ottoman Empire, by the way, not Automan. That can't possibly be a typo; I wonder if you've actually seen that written down before. Whaddya think, it was an empire of mechanics and used car salesmen?
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#27
I interpreted the post of Ali Mahdi in a different light than seems to have been propagated thus far; I think he meant, by "destroying" Israel, that he would rather be in favour of abolishing the borders between Israel and Palestine, in lieu of one unified Government and people, devoid of discrimination. I would see no problem with such a vision. Perhaps unrealistic in today's political climate, but nonetheless, not problematic.
 
Dexter Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#28
...we just want "Israel" destroyed doesn't seem open to much interpretation to me. He put "Israel" in quotes and you put "destroying" in quotes, which suggests neither of you are using those words in their usual meanings. You explained yourself and clarified what you meant. He didn't, so I take his words at face value.

The borders of Palestine are pretty fuzzy, but it certainly includes all or part of Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan. I think those countries might have a few sharp things to say about a single unified Palestinian state.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#29
Well, Ali Mahdi , I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, since it appears that English may certainly not be your first language, but you might have to explain your position in more depth — I would be curious as to exactly what you mean by "destroying Israel."
 
Machjo
#30
"I don't know where Ali Mahdi stands on this one" Seems pretty clear he stands for the destruction of Israel, which for me renders any other of his opinions not worth taking seriously."

Hitler had actually said once that children were teh future of Germany. Now are you going to dismiss that just because of who said it?

As far as I'm concerned, I just want a solution to the Middle East. If it simply means respecting UN resolutions and having both an Israel and a Palestine, so be it. If Jews could live in a peaceful Palestine, then great. In the end it's just too complicated, so I won't worry about the details. But certainly Zionism has got to go, and if ultra-orthodox jews can help, then so much the better.

Not that I have any particular feelings for Israel one way or another, but destroying countries doesn't seem to be a useful solution to anything. That'd just create a Jewish version of Hamas and the PLO, and things would remain pretty much as they are.

Possibly.

That's the Ottoman Empire, by the way, not Automan. That can't possibly be a typo; I wonder if you've actually seen that written down before. Whaddya think, it was an empire of mechanics and used car salesmen?

You'd be surprised at my typos. I sometimes need to type in IPA, and often in Roman letters. I read and type in English, French, Pinyin and Esperanto regularly. They all have different rules for spelling and pronunciation. So when I'm just typing casually and quickly as opposed to work, as I do in forums, I'll make the strangest typos as you might have already witnessed in many of my previous posts. But I'll be careful next time. Sorry.
 

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