Shooting at school in Minnesota


Vanni Fucci
#1
CBC News

CNN
 
no1important
#2
Saw that. Terrible tragedy.
Quote:

Authorities discovered about an hour later that the boy had shot and killed his grandmother and grandfather, a veteran of the police force, Stately told KARE-TV.Stately said the boy used his grandfather's police-issued weapon in the school rampage.

You would think a police officer would be more careful about where he keeps his gun.

If any country needs gun control, America is it.
 
Vanni Fucci
#3
I wonder if Michael Moore will make a movie about this one too...
 
Reverend Blair
#4
It's on a reserve, so it only gets minor mention. If it happened in suburbia they'd be cancelling Friends' re-reruns for it.
 
mrmom2
#5
Hitler.Stalin,Mao,mass murders all agree gun control works!
 
no1important
#6
Well its a lot easier to buy a gun in America than it is here. I have 4 and I remember the BS I had to go through.
 
missile
#7
Another crazy kid who killed his grandparents first! I don'y thinkI'll be inviting any of mine to stay with me. It's a headline event on "Drudge Report" anyway-all the major networks seem preoccupied with that brain dead woman in Fla.
 
Jay
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by no1important

Well its a lot easier to buy a gun in America than it is here. I have 4 and I remember the BS I had to go through.


They must be hand guns you have?

I had no problems getting long guns.
 
mrmom2
#9
Guns don't kill people,people kill people!Gun control does not work,criminals don't register there weapons.They don't buy them in stores.
 
Jay
#10
"Guns don't kill people,people kill people!"

I know this, but the left in Canada doesn't. They like to ban things and keep lists of ppl with guns instead.

I feel so free!!

I'm sure we need another thread for this though.
 
Hard-Luck Henry
#11
Maybe they need to ban people, then. Not sure how that would work. Guns make it easier to kill people; as seen, even kids can do it. If these kids had no access to guns, then this mass murder would have been avoided. Simple.
There must be a reason that these things happen in the US more prolifically than anywhere. Could it be that the US has less gun control that anywhere else?
 
Reverend Blair
#12
That would be a reasonable assumption, Henry. There have also been a couple studies showing that US culture is inherently more violent than Europe or Canada, although nobody has figured out why as far as I know. It is especially more prone to serial killings and mass murders in comparison to other deveoped countries.
 
peapod
#13
Well maybe when you start suing the ass off the people that have the guns and put them in jail for allowing access to their weapons things might change. Its only their pocketbooks they listen to. Sorry but thats my opinion, it does not take a whole lot to point a gun and kill something...it might be worth something if the animal was allowed to have a gun to. uh huh...it might be a whole lot different than..just my opinion of course.
I doubt if you will hear much about this either, considering it happened on a reserve, not "hollywood" enough.
 
Jay
#14
"put them in jail for allowing access to their weapons things might change"

Absolutely Pea. You have to be responsible for your weapons.
 
Jay
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Hard-Luck Henry

Maybe they need to ban people, then.

Education is the key Henry, not banning things.
 
Rick van Opbergen
#16
But how do you know education is effective Jay? And how much can you educate a boy who decides one day to kill his grandparents and a couple of classmates? To what extent should this kid have been educated about guns and not have been given a better opportunity in the Native American reservation he was living in? And - more in general - how can you educate about guns those people who are, lets say, screwed up in the head?
 
no1important
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Jay

Quote: Originally Posted by no1important

Well its a lot easier to buy a gun in America than it is here. I have 4 and I remember the BS I had to go through.


They must be hand guns you have?

I had no problems getting long guns.

No I have long guns. 300 sako, 257 roberts, .22 and a 20 gauge Mossberg. No hand guns.

The point I was trying to make is. In the US some states you can walk in and out with a gun no questions asked. I remember I had to fillout forms and they called references when they changed the FAC about 10 years ago. I even had to write a test. Which was easy. Then the gun shop still had to phine a number to get approval for me to buy a rifle.

I know people kill people, but America has always been a violent culture and they have the right to bear arms, but you have to wonder why violent crime is more prelevent in America compared to the rest of the civilized world.
 
Vanni Fucci
#18
The second amendment right to bear arms was written into the constitution, because at the time there was not much of a standing army, and the communities relied upon the local militias to protect them from aggressors (ie. the British)...now that the US has an enormous standing army, there is no need to have that right, and should have been repealed about a hundred years ago...
 
Reverend Blair
#19
What kind of education were you thinking of in this case, Jay? The kid obviously knew about guns and how to use guns. He knew what guns do. This was not an accident.
 
Jay
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Rick van Opbergen

But how do you know education is effective Jay? And how much can you educate a boy who decides one day to kill his grandparents and a couple of classmates? To what extent should this kid have been educated about guns and not have been given a better opportunity in the Native American reservation he was living in? And - more in general - how can you educate about guns those people who are, lets say, screwed up in the head?


Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

What kind of education were you thinking of in this case, Jay? The kid obviously knew about guns and how to use guns. He knew what guns do. This was not an accident.


I guess I should have been clearer. I mean gun owner training/education. I took it, and kids aren’t going to get my guns. I think everyone should take the training; Especially in rural areas, and it should be treated as a safety issue, along with other safety issues and taught in high school.
 
Rick van Opbergen
#21
But not all gun-abusers are children, right?
 
Reverend Blair
#22
Plus the kid was sixteen or so...that's two years later than I had my gun safety course.

I agree that such courses are valuable, Jay. They do not keep things like this from happening though.
 
Jay
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

Plus the kid was sixteen or so...that's two years later than I had my gun safety course.

I agree that such courses are valuable, Jay. They do not keep things like this from happening though.


Anyone who took the education seriously would not have allowed this kid to get guns, and there should be consequences.

Its isn't a black and white issue though.
 
Reverend Blair
#24
What consequences would you like to see? The kid is dead and so is his grandfather, who owned the gun. I guess we could dig them up and shoot them again, but I don't see that accomplishing much.
 
Jay
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni Fucci

The second amendment right to bear arms was written into the constitution, because at the time there was not much of a standing army, and the communities relied upon the local militias to protect them from aggressors (ie. the British)...now that the US has an enormous standing army, there is no need to have that right, and should have been repealed about a hundred years ago...


Here is a perfect example of why I will not vote left. They are bent on the destruction of basic rights and will lie about what the truth is and will leave you helpless to do anything about it.


Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

Seem familiar? See Vanni's position above....


A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined,
but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a
status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them,
which would include their own government.
--George Washington

Doesn't seem to jive with Vanni's position....


The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-8.



Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. --- Thomas Jefferson in "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764



To prohibit a citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm . . . is an unwarranted restriction upon the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege. -- Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878


The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage the keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. -- Thomas Paine, Writings of Thomas Paine at 56 (1894)



Without either the first or second amendment, we would have no liberty; the first allows us to find out what's happening, the second allows us to do something about it! The second will be taken away first, followed by the first and then the rest of our freedoms. -- Andrew Ford



Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest. -- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi



A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis (1952)




A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie. -- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin


Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power. -- Yoshimi Ishikawa, author of Japanese best-seller Strawberry Road




We could go on and on and on…..
 
Jay
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

What consequences would you like to see? The kid is dead and so is his grandfather, who owned the gun. I guess we could dig them up and shoot them again, but I don't see that accomplishing much.



In this case, your right.
 
Reverend Blair
#27
Nice quotes, Jay...Tell me, do you think that citizens should have access to the same armaments as the military? If they are too effectively fend off a tyrannical government through force, that would pretty much be a requirement.

So should each citizen be allowed to have tanks and fully armed jet fighters? Can they use depleted uranium munitions? Maybe we can fix everybody up with a nuke.
 
mrmom2
#28
Jays right you take away the citizens right to bear arms and your going to get tyranny.Just ask Moa,Hitler,Stalin they all banned guns from there citizens.Gun rights are the only thing that keeps goverments from making us there slaves.
 
Jay
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

Nice quotes,.

Thanks.


Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

Jay...Tell me, do you think that citizens should have access to the same armaments as the military? If they are too effectively fend off a tyrannical government through force, that would pretty much be a requirement.

In many respects yes they have to. The debate over armor piercing bullets is a no-brainer. Yes the people should have them. It is necessary to protect a free nation. The second amendment surely isn't about duck hunting as the left would have us believe.


We also have to remember slow resistance wins a war.
 
Reverend Blair
#30
So you're saying that individuals should have the same armaments as their governments? Slow resistance my ass, quick destruction is more like it.
 

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