N.Y. cop not indicted in choke hold death


Ron in Regina
+1
#91
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

I've had some experience in judo and i'm quite aware of the chokehold that was used. It cuts off circulation to brain and will cause unconsciousness in seconds, which is why our instructors never allowed us to use it with any force. It can also cause arithmea and cessation of breathing even in healthy individuals.. that's why the NYPD banned it.

Me too in a peripheral sort of way (like the guy in this match below, I was
also a plumber in Regina). Anyone who follows Judo (or MMA) would know
the below match is over (baseball choke) 8-9 seconds in, but it's not a
common move yet, and even the referee didn't realize what happened at
the time (& should'a elevated dudes feet to get the blood flowing back into
his head quickly). Seconds after his opponent is out, they separate, and
everybody lives. Imagine that. Proper training I guess....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHA5-VSZnOc
Last edited by Locutus; Dec 6th, 2014 at 12:25 AM..Reason: https
 
gopher
+3
#92
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

The NYPD went after him in force because he was selling cigarettes.

Wait a minute... they went after him because he is selling cigarettes? Of all the felonious crimes going on in New York City they are going after a cigarette peddler?

Oh yes... never get in the way of a liberal big city government and their taxes. That is why the NYPD went after him in force. What is the tax on a pack of smokes now in NYC? $3-$5? Mr. Garner was getting in between the city and their money and that simply could not stand.


I believe we have discussed this before - NYC police do NOT enforce or collect cigarette taxes. That is done by New York City Department of Finance. I dealt with those folks when I was an IRS agent for many years.
 
Ron in Regina
+2
#93
Quote: Originally Posted by Locutus View Post

Holy moly.

12yrs later....you should see him now!


Still if he was involved in any physical confrontation, few would
believe that he didn't start it. That's my boy on the bottom below.




Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Society's reaction to flaws from police is not congruent with flaws from other professions that result in harm or death, and relative to the recent events, the pall is cast over 'The Police' - not just the specific officer involved

No one riots for weeks when a Dr. makes a mistake in q diagnosis or conflicts in medical prescriptions with a patient.

They are a target of convenience

Yeah, things are a little different though. Show me a video on YouTube of four
Doctors with nightsticks beating a man on the side of the road, or physical
assaulting and then electrocuting some dude with a tazer in an airport, or
half a dozen Doctors choking and piling onto some guy on the street until he
expires of asphyxiation. Substitute the word Plumbers for Doctors above and
it's just as ludicrous. Most interactions with Plumbers or Doctors or Pizza
Delivery Guys are not potentially fatal whether you are doing something wrong,
or not.
 
Locutus
#94
NYPD shuts down the party.






a spritz of troll-repellent.
 
Ron in Regina
#95
I was expecting something like this hours ago, but figured with the time difference
that it had wound up for the night. Protests in the Apple Store & Macey's seemed
way to convienient (& bizzare) as opposed to a public place like a park where the
media could focus on the event. The whole "keep it moving" thing was stinky too.

If a riot was to break out (match to the powder-keg), it might as well be in the Apple
store so the rioters (future looters?) could multitask and get some X-Mas shopping
done at the same time.
 
Cliffy
#96
Looks like things are going to escalate. A friend remarked tonight that maybe that is their plan: cause riots so martial law can be put in place. We'll see.
 
captain morgan
#97
Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

It's amazing that people can comment on the police getting away with murder and say it's the police who aren't treated fairly. The police should be questioned every step of the way.

This circumstance isn't about cops not being questioned every step of the way... Apparently this guy was questioned, his actions reviewed by a Grand Jury and it was determined that he would not be indicted.... You (and many others) disagree with that judgement and therefore deem the death as murder.

Apparently, it was considered such, so all that leaves is your opinion

Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

We need to make sure the police are held to account for that abuse. Are they questioned every step of the way?

The review process did exactly that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

Well, you might have heard about this case where a police officer strangled a man to death, was filmed, had zero justification and was not charged for it.

Are you referring to this case that has been reviewed by the police dept in addition to a Grand Jury that resulted in this cops actions not being deemed as murder?.... Is this the case you're talking about?
 
Corduroy
#98
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Nope

Watch the video. Educate yourself.

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Are you referring to this case that has been reviewed by the police dept in addition to a Grand Jury that resulted in this cops actions not being deemed as murder?.... Is this the case you're talking about?

Yes, that is the case I'm talking about.
 
petros
#99
You don't like guns and you don't like the people with guns that we are supposed to call when we need a person with a gun?

The 400 pounder shouldn't have resisted arrest if he was too obese to be in a position people who resist arrest end up in.
 
SLM
#100
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

Yeah, things are a little different though. Show me a video on YouTube of four
Doctors with nightsticks beating a man on the side of the road, or physical
assaulting and then electrocuting some dude with a tazer in an airport, or
half a dozen Doctors choking and piling onto some guy on the street until he
expires of asphyxiation. Substitute the word Plumbers for Doctors above and
it's just as ludicrous. Most interactions with Plumbers or Doctors or Pizza
Delivery Guys are not potentially fatal whether you are doing something wrong,
or not.

To be fair though Ron, most interactions with police officers are not potentially fatal whether you are doing something wrong or not either. And that notion does tend to get lost in the furor of these incidents too.

But, having said that, I agree with what you're saying to a point. Is it a problem of perception on the part of society though or an actual problem? Or maybe both? I found this article pretty interesting.

Cops who kill and the limits of self-regulation

Specifically this section:

Quote:

The set of circumstances in which outsiders should be reluctant to judge the behaviour of a powerful occupational group is pretty strictly limited to circumstances in which the members of that group do a good job of monitoring their own behaviour and enforcing standards that serve the public well.

Are they doing a good job of monitoring their own behaviour? I'll admit it doesn't appear to be so, but since I don't know specifically what transpired inside the grand jury, I am reluctant to judge definitively and conclusively. What I can and will judge them on is a lousy track record of police agencies addressing the public's fears and doubts in any sort of manner, directly or indirectly, to assure the public that they can indeed be trusted. I think they do a horrible job of doing that and are they're own worst enemies that way.
 
Sal
#101
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

I'm not attacking your position here at all, but as far as any medical issues go (high
blood pressure, asthma, obesity, herpes, whatever.....), is any of it relevant at all in
the choice of a victim if he happens to die due to their actions??? Choking someone
and all of the bodies piled onto his chest, ect..., with his head cranked over even if this
dude wasn't in his 40's, or obese, or had a heart condition, or had halitosis, or asthma,
or athletes foot, could very well have killed him. It's not like any of this was taken into
consideration when this incidence went down...making it irrelevant. Dudes heath, or lack
there of, is a non-issue in his death.

Personally, I believe if this dude was 5'2" and 100lbs and a woman, he'd be alive today
'cuz nobody earns any cred' in taking down a tiny woman with that kind'a force in a "look
at the hero I am in choking out this giant!" sort'a thing. It's the little-big man compensation
sort'a thing. Sad....pack of freaking heros....not.

My boy is a gentle giant in his own right, and has dealt with this malarkey, with much restraint,
most of his life....knowing that if he was involved....nobody would believe that he didn't start
things. I've seen it and it is truly sad in a 'compensating for a tiny *****' sort of way. Below is
a picture of my son at 15yrs of age (in the passenger's seat).

he be de big boy eh?

I remember you speaking of his size prior and how all of his life he has had to over compensate because of it in order to avoid trouble and those who would love to show how tough they are by picking on the big guy.

It is a sad day when people die because those in power have lost the ability to use their mind first before their muscle.
 
captain morgan
+1
#102
Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

Yes, that is the case I'm talking about.


Great... So, can we agree that the Grand Jury absolved the cop of any/all murder charges, thereby eliminating the need to keep massaging reality on this?
 
Walter
+2
#103
Until we hear what the grand jury heard everything is speculation.
 
captain morgan
#104
What is frightening is that many people decide that the findings of the Grand Jury are a moot point, they read some egregious headlines in the paper, pass judgement and then decide to riot in the streets.

The victims are painted as angels sent from heaven that shovel the snow from the sidewalks in front of the senior's center, nurse sick baby birds back to health and sing in the Church choir... The mean ole police, in a drunken and racist rage, pull them over at random and either choke them to death or fire a dozen shots into their random victims
 
petros
+2
#105
He resisted arrest. If you can say "I can' t breathe" you can breathe.
 
Sal
#106
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

What is frightening is that many people decide that the findings of the Grand Jury are a moot point, they read some egregious headlines in the paper, pass judgement and then decide to riot in the streets.

The victims are painted as angels sent from heaven that shovel the snow from the sidewalks in front of the senior's center, nurse sick baby birds back to health and sing in the Church choir... The mean ole police, in a drunken and racist rage, pull them over at random and either choke them to death or fire a dozen shots into their random victims

well one could just saint the one who is accused because they are wearing a uniform, or, or one could just decide to analyse it, pick it apart, examine different possibilities and see every particular aspect about it

then draw their own conclusion
 
Locutus
+3
#107
the perp-preamble 'don't touch me' doesn't seem get a lot of positive results with law enforcement.
 
Sal
#108
Quote: Originally Posted by Locutus View Post

the perp-preamble 'don't touch me' doesn't seem get a lot of positive results with law enforcement.

true but if professionalism had been used the result may well have been different...there is a level of expectation and professionalism required in every single job out there

when we fall below those standards, we have simply failed
 
Locutus
+3
#109
Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post

true but if professionalism had been used the result may well have been different...there is a level of expectation and professionalism required in every single job out there

when we fall below those standards, we have simply failed

that should be directed to the supervisor on scene, the black, female sergeant who stood around with her finger up her butt. nobody seems to be talking to that chick eh.
 
captain morgan
#110
Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post

well one could just saint the one who is accused because they are wearing a uniform, or, or one could just decide to analyse it, pick it apart, examine different possibilities and see every particular aspect about it

then draw their own conclusion

The Grand Jury did draw conclusions, however, that doesn't appear to hold any weight in the court of public opinion... Now, the discussion is focused on attempts to shop for realities in order to generate a predetermined outcome (ie. charge the cop with murder).

Begs the question; why bother having formal investigations if we aren't prepared to accept the results

Quote: Originally Posted by Locutus View Post

that should be directed to the supervisor on scene, the black, female sergeant who stood around with her finger up her butt. nobody seems to be talking to that chick eh.

Funny how that works,eh?
 
Sal
#111
Quote: Originally Posted by Locutus View Post

that should be directed to the supervisor on scene, the black, female sergeant who stood around with her finger up her butt. nobody seems to be talking to that chick eh.

I am certain the higher ups in command are ripping their hair out in each of these situations...they will be sitting on fire from those above them.

Like it or not, right or wrong, the public can not lose their trust in the police or there will be a major shift in responding to, even from the average person.


These types of situations are difficult to prevent because they can do all the psychological screening and interviewing and teaching and coaching and when the employee gets out there and hits some trigger situation which causes a loss of ability to correctly assess and respond and it causes a needless loss of life it is a crisis situation and they have to address it.

She will be in deep trouble herself.
 
lone wolf
+1
#112
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

A sad respone from one that believes themselves an intellectual giant.

Keep aiming high bud, maybe some day you'll get there although I highly doubt it

Aiming low ... and hit you square on....

You know what I believe myself to be? That only confirms you're delusional
 
Sal
+2
#113
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

The Grand Jury did draw conclusions, however, that doesn't appear to hold any weight in the court of public opinion... Now, the discussion is focused on attempts to shop for realities in order to generate a predetermined outcome (ie. charge the cop with murder).

Begs the question; why bother having formal investigations if we aren't prepared to accept the results

Yes the Grand Jury did draw conclusions. Apparently the public opinion does not agree. Perhaps it is reflective of other problems at a societal level of which we are unaware and I think that is likely exactly what the problem is. It is complex and simplifying it is not the answer.

A formal investigation regardless of how squeaky clean is only good if society believes it to be squeaky clean. Otherwise it is useless.

We now live in a world where all of the blackness and corruption is evident. It is no longer possible to say...you will do as I say because I said it. Just doesn't work that way any more.
 
captain morgan
#114
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

Aiming low ...

No surprise there... That's all your capable of

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

You know what I believe myself to be?

Honestly, I couldn't care less.... Really

Happy to keep going down the low road with ya'll.... Let me know if you have any actual observations or opinions on the subject matter, that is an option... Otherwise, just maintain the program of sniping and enjoy the entertainment that comes along.

Your choice
 
DaSleeper
+2
#115
What do we follow now.......
Rule of Law? or Public consensus


In other words....mob rule....lock your doors and keep your guns handy!
 
captain morgan
+1
#116
Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post

Yes the Grand Jury did draw conclusions. Apparently the public opinion does not agree. Perhaps it is reflective of other problems at a societal level of which we are unaware and I think that is likely exactly what the problem is. It is complex and simplifying it is not the answer.

Fair to say that the public did not have the same access to the entire body of info available.

At this point, as Walter identified earlier, the public is basing a final conclusion on limited info and speculation


Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post

We now live in a world where all of the blackness and corruption is evident. It is no longer possible to say...you will do as I say because I said it. Just doesn't work that way any more.


We also live in a world where there is more trial by media than there is otherwise and while the corruption has, and will always, exist, what is different today is the nature of the distribution of info in addition to the broad acceptance of anything that is published (regardless of accuracy).

You're welcome to refuse any dictates from the 'do as I say' crowd (assuming this body has been given certain authority by society), but the results you can expect will probably be far lower than your expectations
 
lone wolf
#117
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

No surprise there... That's all your capable of



Honestly, I couldn't care less.... Really

Happy to keep going down the low road with ya'll.... Let me know if you have any actual observations or opinions on the subject matter, that is an option... Otherwise, just maintain the program of sniping and enjoy the entertainment that comes along.

Your choice

Sniping and the low road?.... You'd be the one to recognize both. Too bad you didn't have the intellect to resort to intelligent discussion rather than Harperesque smoke-screen and arrogance.

In some cases, it's best to aim for the knees and below because the head is empty.
Last edited by lone wolf; Dec 6th, 2014 at 10:39 AM..
 
captain morgan
+1
#118
You must have got your Hydro bill recently... That why you're throwing a tantrum?
 
lone wolf
#119
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

You must have got your Hydro bill recently... That why you're throwing a tantrum?

You throw tantrums? Why doesn't that surprise me....
 
Sal
+3
#120
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Fair to say that the public did not have the same access to the entire body of info available.

At this point, as Walter identified earlier, the public is basing a final conclusion on limited info and speculation

yes, both sides are





Quote:

We also live in a world where there is more trial by media than there is otherwise and while the corruption has, and will always, exist, what is different today is the nature of the distribution of info in addition to the broad acceptance of anything that is published (regardless of accuracy).

agreed

Quote:

You're welcome to refuse any dictates from the 'do as I say' crowd (assuming this body has been given certain authority by society), but the results you can expect will probably be far lower than your expectations

in the States they are well aware that a huge part of their problem is the level of education and intelligence within their police force...also the break down of small community policing is a problem...if the cop knew the guy and the issues this would never have happened...if the twelve year old was your neighbour five streets over, no shots would have happened

we don't know each other any more...it is easy to vilify and display cruelty to another by assigning them to a different tribe with bad motives and intentions, it's like a throw back to a more brutal time

it's going to get worse, way worse, before it gets better
 

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