Is War a good thing?


polaris
#1
Rising social unrest in Mid East countries (Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen) has been triggered by a number of factors. Exposure to global and western standards to a burgeoning young population has created rising expectations held down by autocratic regimes. What people are experiencing is rising food and fuel prices and rising unemployment, a sure-fire recipe for trouble in the streets. What should small national governments do to quell the unrest? Send in the police and militia? It gets messy that way...all that killing of your own people.
Far better to keep the mess in someone else's back yard. Like we do here in the US. and Canada.

The most robust examples of the manufacturing sector left in North America, particularly in the US is the weapons, armaments and munitions industries that supply materials for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and the hundreds of other military bases and covert operations overseas. If the US were to stop all foreign wars, bring the troops home and lay off the workers in unneeded munitions factories, unemployment could rise to between 20-30%. It is currently around 10%. Of coarse having hundreds of thousands of unemployed weapons trained unhappy young men wandering the streets might cause trouble...far better to create an enemy in the minds of the people and export all that trouble while stimulating your own economy....and the sweetest piece of that irony....you can get all those stupid voters, even the soldiers, and their children and grand children to pay for it by borrowing all the money through government bonds etc.

Oh yes...all those wealthy folks who have shares in those armaments industries and are making money by the tank-full need to be rewarded for their investments...lets cut their taxes....again....and again...and again. Pension funds are heavily invested in munitions industries.

And of coarse as a Conservative you go where the profit is....ethics and morality are not to be considered. In the US it makes no difference if you are Republican or Democrat, both are conservative.

And in memory of how World War II pulled the planet out of the depression of the dirty thirties...Lets have a Tea Party.

Coming soon to all media outlets....a campaign to revere the Noble Warrior....just to prepare you and your children.

I'm sure that once again Old Age and treachery can win out over Youth and Idealism.
 
Chiliagon
Liberal
#2
Yes, My Ace beats your King!
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#3
[QUOTE=polaris;1374819
I'm sure that once again Old Age and treachery can win out over Youth and Idealism.[/QUOTE]

Nice rant, I agree, excepting the last sentence. It is the idealism of youth that enables the wealthy evil ancients to apply their charm and misuse the respect afforded them by those same innocents. No war preceeds without lots of willing youthful blood to spill.
 
Johnnny
No Party Affiliation
#4
The muslim world will be going through some drastic changes and revolutions in the next 50 yrs. Mabye if we are lucky the church and government will be seperate entities in these countries.
 
shelphs
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Nice rant, I agree, excepting the last sentence. It is the idealism of youth that enables the wealthy evil ancients to apply their charm and misuse the respect afforded them by those same innocents. No war preceeds without lots of willing youthful blood to spill.

Innocent youths? Yes and no. They are innocent if joining a military faction is the best way for them to get educated and achieve their dreams in a job that doesn't require them to kill or be an accessory to killing, but, still, only then are they innocent if they speak up against injustices done while on tour. But this is to be done within a system that encourages comradeship through solidarity based on in-the-field-secrecy, or on-the-job-secrecy, which is not unlike the police in their measure of solidarity and the entrenched code of us (military/police officers) and them (civilians/non-police officers). This is a difficult environment for people to rise above and do the right thing when it tarnishes said environment and those a part of it.

And those who join war excited and relishing the notion of it, well, innocent does not seem an appropriate word. innocence is devoid of moral wrong, devoid of causing physical or moral injury. To look forward to killing or being a part of killing is far from innocent regardless of the wrongs done by an opponent. To hate to such a degree as that - that is not innocence.

But, yes, I suppose there are those who truly believe in the possible, morally righteous, etc reasons provided by politicians as to why a country begins or enters a war, and that is sad, for it is very clear that politicians cannot be trusted; that they are fickle; that, though opinions, data, etc can change, they change far too easily, quickly, and opaquely. So, everyone wonders, what, truly, is the game? And that is precisely why war and other authority-enforcer positions are best avoided until transparency is greatly improved.
 
polaris
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Nice rant, I agree, excepting the last sentence. It is the idealism of youth that enables the wealthy evil ancients to apply their charm and misuse the respect afforded them by those same innocents. No war preceeds without lots of willing youthful blood to spill.

All of us were trained from the nipple to do as we are told and it is only when we start to discern the contradictions between the words and actions of our parents and society that some raise their heads in protest. When we move those pliable young bodies into the military we just substitute another Authority Figure and continue that control....Thus the soldiers are not really willing....They are just following orders.

If the orders come down to shoot the people in the streets....Soldiers and police are not paid to think.
 
Bar Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#7
Is this a trick question? War is never a good thing. Nor is the armaments industry much of a contribution to the economy. I remember a study done a few years ago (sorry, I no longer have access to the study) in which the relative contribution to the economy from a variety of policies was studied. The armaments industry rated last, actually costing society more than was put into it. Social services such as the building of schools, hospitals, and other social services did far better, actually having a positive result. And the highest ranking of all? Tax breaks to the middle class. The only possible way that armaments can make a positive economic contribution to an economy is if the nation producing armaments can trick other nations into buying its military hardware. F35s anyone?
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
+1
#8  Top Rated Post
I don't even pretend to have the answers that would solve the problems in that region. But there are consistent complaints made by people and they are as follows:

* too much political corruption

* elitist leaders favoring tribal members over those of other tribes

* government money going to projects that benefit areas already benefited from other projects

* lack of true democratization such as in Egypt where Mubarak is a dictator, not a democrat despite his claims to the contrary

* unemployment or underemployment

Then, there are cultural difficulties where orthodox or traditionals complain of too much progressivism and progressives complaining of too much orthodoxy impeding advancement. Westernization is often seen as counter to Islamic teaching by orthodox practitioners. Modernists see Westernization as being in full compliance with Koranic teaching. Thus, conflicts arise from these differing viewpoints.

Whatever the problem is or might be, USA interventionism is NOT the answer.
 
Unforgiven
#9
Lol!

Someone's got to do it.
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
+1
#10
''Someone's got to do it.''

That's the job of the OAU. Not the USA.
 
Unforgiven
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

''Someone's got to do it.''

That's the job of the OAU. Not the USA.

Stepping up is all that counts.
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
+1
#12
That's their problem, not ours.

We have millions unemployed, others dying from lack of health care, and things are getting worse for everybody. Getting involved in other nation's problems, increasing our deficits, and getting Americans killed overseas is utterly stupid in view of those facts.
 
Unforgiven
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

That's their problem, not ours.

We have millions unemployed, others dying from lack of health care, and things are getting worse for everybody. Getting involved in other nation's problems, increasing our deficits, and getting Americans killed overseas is utterly stupid in view of those facts.

Hey man, if there's money, we're going!

There is going to be war. Of that there is no doubt. Question is who is going to profit from it? Why would we let some African cash in on it? I mean, sure they can die for it, but no one is going to screw us out of that money. Fuk that! We've got culture and heritage on our side.
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
+1
#14
''no one is going to screw us out of that money.''

Yeah, like the wars on Iraq and Afghanistan have gotten us a lot of money rather than deficits.
 
polaris
#15
US intervention in Egyptian affairs? The US donates $1,500.000,000.00 worth of "aid" to Egypt every year...80% of that "aid" is in the form of armaments and munitions. They have been propping up Mubarak for decades....one more example of being on the side of a repressive regime. Now all those armaments may fall into the hands of a Muslim Brotherhood replacement. Are things spiralling out of control?

Read.....Killing Hope.....by William Blum
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
+1
#16
The Muslim Brotherhood is only a small minority in the Egyptian opposition. It is not likely to win any election or take over the government as its membership is too small.
 
Unforgiven
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

''no one is going to screw us out of that money.''

Yeah, like the wars on Iraq and Afghanistan have gotten us a lot of money rather than deficits.

Don't for a moment think that billions haven't changed hands. Don't worry about the deficits, we already have way more debt than you're ever going to pay back before you die. So like the rest of the problems, just leave it for the kids, to live through and pass along to their kids.

And remember there are plenty of small wars going on that are still very profitable and lack the big players hogging all the easy money.

Quote: Originally Posted by polaris View Post

US intervention in Egyptian affairs? The US donates $1,500.000,000.00 worth of "aid" to Egypt every year...80% of that "aid" is in the form of armaments and munitions. They have been propping up Mubarak for decades....one more example of being on the side of a repressive regime. Now all those armaments may fall into the hands of a Muslim Brotherhood replacement. Are things spiralling out of control?

Read.....Killing Hope.....by William Blum

Control is an illusion.
 

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