Minimum wage rises in Canada


theconqueror
#1
OTTAWA — April 1. 2010 The minimum wage went up in several parts of Canada on Thursday.

Nova Scotia, following a schedule approved in 2008, now has a minimum wage of $9.20 an hour and will see another increase on Oct. 1, to $9.65 an hour.

New Brunswick is up to $8.50 an hour after a 25-cent increase. The province will end with a minimum wage of $10 an hour by Sep. 1, 2011.

The Northwest Territories will see its minimum wage go up by 75 cents, ending at $9 an hour. This is its first wage hike since 2003. but another is expected in April 2011.

Meanwhile, Yukon sees a small bump, rising to $8.93 an hour from $8.89.

The news comes days after Ontario hiked its hourly minimum wage to $10.25, the highest in Canada.


FACTBOX

Minimum Wage by Province


Alberta $8.80

British Columbia $8.00

Manitoba $9.00

New Brunswick $8.50

Northwest Territories $9.00

Newfoundland $9.50

Nova Scotia $9.20

Nunavut $10.00

Ontario $10.25

Prince Edward Island $8.40

Quebec $9.00

Saskatchewan $9.25

Yukon $8.93
 
Ron in Regina
#2
Should we try & compare the O.P. to this?: Consumer Price Index, by province (monthly)
 
jjaycee98
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

Should we try & compare the O.P. to this?: Consumer Price Index, by province (monthly)

This really does not help to understand what the difference is Province to province or Territory. Wonder if we could do this ourselves. How about it? First we need to choose items that everyone has to purchase and then get prices from our posters. Some savey person here should be able to compile the results into a graft.

So what do we need to choose to compare. Do we need to define a difference between city and rural? North to South within Provincial borders can be quite different also.

The items compared by Statistics Canada's "Food basket"-what are they? I know sugar is there-10 KG bag? Bread-need to chose a type-such as made by the bakeries in supermarkets to sell 4 in a bag-cheapest type rather than Whole Grain specialties. Milk-4L jug? 5KG bag of spuds? What else?

Anyone that wants to take over here and get this set up to receive submissions is welcome to take the lead here. I am in the middle of Tax season and just come here to see what's the talk of the day when I need a break. This could be quite enlightening I think to know what costs are compared to wages.

Might be interesting to pick various jobs and have people submit what they know people are being paid in various regions too.
 
YukonJack
#4
If there is a MINIMUM WAGE, there should be a MINIMUM requirement of goods/services provided to earn and deserve that wage.

Fair bet is that a test measuring the value of mimimum services/goods provided for a mimimum wage received would fail rather miserably, everywhere.
 
lone wolf
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post

If there is a MINIMUM WAGE, there should be a MINIMUM requirement of goods/services provided to earn and deserve that wage.

Fair bet is that a test measuring the value of mimimum services/goods provided for a mimimum wage received would fail rather miserably, everywhere.

Wouldn't that create a lot of out-of-work bureaucrats and politicians?
 
Machjo
#6
A minimum wage hurts the very people it's intended to help; it essentially prices them out of the market.

A better alternative would likely be to scrap minimum wages altogether and just introduce co-determination laws as they do in Germany:

Co-determination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This way workers would still have enough power to ensure that their employers cannot exploit them unfairly, yet still give them the flexibility to accept a lower wage then that is genuinely the only option possible.

A minimum wage does neither. If the employer exploits his employees unfairly by paying them minimum wage when in fact they are making him much more profit than that, then a simple minimum wage gives them no recourse. And if the employer is genuinely not making enough money to pay minimum wage, then a minimum wage essentially legislates the worker out of a job.

Co-determination laws would allow him to accept a lower wage when necessary yet also be able to negotiate a fair wage when he's genuinely making his employer a lot of money.

I would say though that in order to not give workers too much power over their employers, co-determination laws would have to come in exchange for the right to strike. No more striking would be allowed after this, as that too is not fair to workers who need the money and who can't afford to strike.
 
Machjo
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post

If there is a MINIMUM WAGE, there should be a MINIMUM requirement of goods/services provided to earn and deserve that wage.

That can only be done by providing the workers with the education necessary to make them worth minimum wage. Elementary and secondary education needs to be improved. Each child ought to have a trade or profession under his belt before the age of fifteen. I'm not saying his education should end then, but simply that if, for whatever reason, he must leave school as soon as is legally allowed, that he will have some kind of skill to contribute.
 
VanIsle
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by theconqueror View Post

OTTAWA — April 1. 2010 The minimum wage went up in several parts of Canada on Thursday.

Nova Scotia, following a schedule approved in 2008, now has a minimum wage of $9.20 an hour and will see another increase on Oct. 1, to $9.65 an hour.

New Brunswick is up to $8.50 an hour after a 25-cent increase. The province will end with a minimum wage of $10 an hour by Sep. 1, 2011.

The Northwest Territories will see its minimum wage go up by 75 cents, ending at $9 an hour. This is its first wage hike since 2003. but another is expected in April 2011.

Meanwhile, Yukon sees a small bump, rising to $8.93 an hour from $8.89.

The news comes days after Ontario hiked its hourly minimum wage to $10.25, the highest in Canada.


FACTBOX

Minimum Wage by Province


Alberta $8.80

British Columbia $8.00

Manitoba $9.00

New Brunswick $8.50

Northwest Territories $9.00

Newfoundland $9.50

Nova Scotia $9.20

Nunavut $10.00

Ontario $10.25

Prince Edward Island $8.40

Quebec $9.00

Saskatchewan $9.25

Yukon $8.93

Just another reason our wonderless premier isn't popular. Petitions have been sent regarding the low minimum wage here. He refuses to budge on it. It's so low that most people don't believe it can be true. Starting wages where I work are $9.75 per hour and I had some guy telling his kid not to apply there because the starting wage was too low. He was dead serious. It takes almost forever to move beyond that wage and hours for most people have been cut drastically. Other people live on it. For those that have been around long enough to still be getting enough hours.
People are really complaining about the cost of bread (uh - the stuff you actually put in your mouth) right now. I thought they were just kind of whining again. I bought bread a couple of days ago myself. It's gone up nearly a dollar a loaf. Even a usually cheap loaf costs at least $3.00 now and anything worth eating is over $4.00 and nearer to $5.00 for one loaf. How is it for the rest of you big wage earners in other provinces who have a higher than $8.00 minimum wage???
 
SirJosephPorter
#9
VanIsle, I was surprised at the low minimum wage in BC. Low minimum wage in Alberta doesn’t surprise me. Considering that the whole province belongs to the rabid right, I am surprised they have a minimum wage at all.

Minimum wage is an essential part of the civilized society; it provides a floor, a protection for the lower class of the society, a minimum guarantee against unscrupulous employers. If we didn’t have minimum wage, people may literally starve in the streets.

Third world countries like India or Somalia don’t’ have a minimum wage; I have no desire to join those august bodies.

Also, there have been no studies to show that minimum wage hurts employment. If that had been true, we would expect unemployment of 25 or 30 % today, the minimum wage has been increased many times.

The recent increase in minimum wage in several provinces is good news for myriad of poor people, the single mothers working on minimum wage. I for one am proud o all the provinces which increased the minimum wage. Well done.
 
Machjo
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by VanIsle View Post

Just another reason our wonderless premier isn't popular. Petitions have been sent regarding the low minimum wage here. He refuses to budge on it. It's so low that most people don't believe it can be true. Starting wages where I work are $9.75 per hour and I had some guy telling his kid not to apply there because the starting wage was too low. He was dead serious. It takes almost forever to move beyond that wage and hours for most people have been cut drastically. Other people live on it. For those that have been around long enough to still be getting enough hours.
People are really complaining about the cost of bread (uh - the stuff you actually put in your mouth) right now. I thought they were just kind of whining again. I bought bread a couple of days ago myself. It's gone up nearly a dollar a loaf. Even a usually cheap loaf costs at least $3.00 now and anything worth eating is over $4.00 and nearer to $5.00 for one loaf. How is it for the rest of you big wage earners in other provinces who have a higher than $8.00 minimum wage???

Years ago, Paris France had rent ceilings. As a result, companies lost interest in the apartment rental business, and as a spin off from that, construction of new rental apartments came to a standstill. Eventually, it caused a shortage of rental units, causing serious shortages in rental apartments, along with some renters paying extra under the table, or landlords charging for other things like key fees, etc.

Eventually, the city had no choice but to lift the rent ceiling, resulting in prices skyrocketing, and construction to pick up to play catch up. Eventually, the prices went down again. Both Toronto and NYC had repeated that error in their histroies, and both eventually paid the price too. Minimum wage is no different. It hurts the very people it's intended to help.

Instead, how about the government improve education so as to ensure that graduates have the skills necessary to make them employable at higher wages, or introduce co-determination laws so as to prevent employers from exploiting their workers unfairly. Beyond that though, arbitrary minimum wages just push people out of the job market, hurting the very people they're intended to help, like rent ceilings did.

Let's learn from experience.
 
lone wolf
#11
Rabid right? ALL Alberta? And Potty doesn't stoop to insults????
 
VanIsle
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter View Post

VanIsle, I was surprised at the low minimum wage in BC. Low minimum wage in Alberta doesn’t surprise me. Considering that the whole province belongs to the rabid right, I am surprised they have a minimum wage at all.

Minimum wage is an essential part of the civilized society; it provides a floor, a protection for the lower class of the society, a minimum guarantee against unscrupulous employers. If we didn’t have minimum wage, people may literally starve in the streets.

Third world countries like India or Somalia don’t’ have a minimum wage; I have no desire to join those august bodies.

Also, there have been no studies to show that minimum wage hurts employment. If that had been true, we would expect unemployment of 25 or 30 % today, the minimum wage has been increased many times.

The recent increase in minimum wage in several provinces is good news for myriad of poor people, the single mothers working on minimum wage. I for one am proud o all the provinces which increased the minimum wage. Well done.

It would have been nicer if you had used "protection for low earners" rather than protection for the lower class. Low wage earners are not necessarily low class losers. In fact, most are not. I'm sure you must not have meant it that way did you?
 
YukonJack
#13
"That can only be done by providing the workers with the education necessary to make them worth minimum wage. Elementary and secondary education needs to be improved. Each child ought to have a trade or profession under his belt before the age of fifteen. I'm not saying his education should end then, but simply that if, for whatever reason, he must leave school as soon as is legally allowed, that he will have some kind of skill to contribute."

Good idea, but, regretfully non-workable.

Ever since teachers decided to abandon their conscience and join unions, they morphed into indoctrinators.

Mind you, they are just as suspect to be able to sign their names with an "X" as their never-failing-because-it-would-hurt-their-feelings students.
 
Machjo
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter View Post

VanIsle, I was surprised at the low minimum wage in BC. Low minimum wage in Alberta doesn’t surprise me. Considering that the whole province belongs to the rabid right, I am surprised they have a minimum wage at all.

Seeing that Sweden, a country often cited as a model of social democracy, has no official minimum wage laws either, it's ironic that you're essentially calling it rabid right.

Quote:

Minimum wage is an essential part of the civilized society; it provides a floor, a protection for the lower class of the society, a minimum guarantee against unscrupulous employers. If we didn’t have minimum wage, people may literally starve in the streets.

Now you're calling Sweden uncivilized? It's often cited as the model welfare state, with an excellent public education system.

Quote:

Third world countries like India or Somalia don’t’ have a minimum wage; I have no desire to join those august bodies.

Now Sweden, the home of Saab, Volvo, and Ericsson, just to name a few, is third world?

Quote:

Also, there have been no studies to show that minimum wage hurts employment. If that had been true, we would expect unemployment of 25 or 30 % today, the minimum wage has been increased many times.

I'd read a few books on economics, and it's generally accepted that any kind of price floor or ceiling could potentially disrupt the market if the floor is above equilibrium price or if the ceiling is below the equilibrium price. However, if either does not cross the equilibrium price, then it has no effect anyway. So in conclusion, either it has no effect or it disrupts the market. In the case of minimum wage increases, the employer must decide to either raise the salary or lay the worker off. In many cases, he may decide to raise the salary, but it only takes one case of him laying the worker off for it to have a negative impact. And statistics aside, for that one worker, it truly will have a personal impact well beyond some university statistics textbook.

Quote:

The recent increase in minimum wage in several provinces is good news for myriad of poor people, the single mothers working on minimum wage. I for one am proud o all the provinces which increased the minimum wage. Well done.

It makes for good politics, but not good economics. We need to learn from Sweden, Germany and others, who've managed to introduce social-democratic ideas not at the expense of capitalism, but as a supplement thereto.
 
Machjo
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

Rabid right? ALL Alberta? And Potty doesn't stoop to insults????

It would seem that Sweden is now on SJP's rabid right list too. go figure! Sweden is about as leftist as democratic societies get overall.
 
SirJosephPorter
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

Years ago, Paris France had rent ceilings. As a result, companies lost interest in the apartment rental business, and as a spin off from that, construction of new rental apartments came to a standstill. Eventually, it caused a shortage of rental units, causing serious shortages in rental apartments, along with some renters paying extra under the table, or landlords charging for other things like key fees, etc.

Eventually, the city had no choice but to lift the rent ceiling, resulting in prices skyrocketing, and construction to pick up to play catch up. Eventually, the prices went down again. Both Toronto and NYC had repeated that error in their histroies, and both eventually paid the price too. Minimum wage is no different. It hurts the very people it's intended to help.

Instead, how about the government improve education so as to ensure that graduates have the skills necessary to make them employable at higher wages, or introduce co-determination laws so as to prevent employers from exploiting their workers unfairly. Beyond that though, arbitrary minimum wages just push people out of the job market, hurting the very people they're intended to help, like rent ceilings did.

Let's learn from experience.

I agree, rent control is a dumb idea. It is better to give help with the rent to the poor people. However, that has nothing to do with minimum wage. Minimum wage is a good idea, it prevents unscrupulous employers form exploiting the employees especially when there is high unemployment. Remember the signs during depression, ‘will work for food’?

I am a great believer in free enterprise. Rent control goes against free enterprise. At the same time, free enterprise unchecked can be very harmful to the society, there must be reasonable restrictions on it. Minimum wage is a reasonable restriction.

As to properly training the graduates that is not a bad idea. However, no matter how much you try, some people are going to end up at the bottom of the heap, with little or no skills. Minimum wage is a life saver to them.
 
VanIsle
#17
I'm not about to start a graph but I will give you a few prices on some of the more necessary items purchased.
5kg Robin Hood white flour $5.99 on sale - regular price $8.99
l Doz. large eggs $2.59. Ex large $2.99 on sale - reg price $3.39
l loaf whole wheat bread $2.99 on sale. Reg price $$4.39
1 - 4 litre 1% milk $4.22 (down from $4.79)

Some misc. items:
evaporated can milk - 4 cans for $9.56 regular price. On sale - 4/$5.00
store brand coffee - $5.99 for decaf (less than one pound)
4.99 for regular
red/yellow/orange peppers - reg. price $8.80 kg.
green pepper - $6.59 kg

These are all Island prices. Mainland pays less. They brought in an American to run BC Ferries and the prices are now so high - they are wondering why Ridership is so low. No brainer there but I guess you have to be paid the truly big CEO bucks to NOT understand why Ridership is down. It also affects the cost of delivering goods to the island so we pay higher prices. Moving away from food prices for the moment - our gas is $1.06.9 and has been for a couple of weeks. How's yours?
 
SirJosephPorter
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by VanIsle View Post

It would have been nicer if you had used "protection for low earners" rather than protection for the lower class. Low wage earners are not necessarily low class losers. In fact, most are not. I'm sure you must not have meant it that way did you?

Yes, I indeed mean low earners. And the term lower class is used many times to refer to poor people, though I agree it can also have another meaning.
 
Machjo
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter View Post

I agree, rent control is a dumb idea. It is better to give help with the rent to the poor people. However, that has nothing to do with minimum wage. Minimum wage is a good idea, it prevents unscrupulous employers form exploiting the employees especially when there is high unemployment. Remember the signs during depression, ‘will work for food’?

I am a great believer in free enterprise. Rent control goes against free enterprise. At the same time, free enterprise unchecked can be very harmful to the society, there must be reasonable restrictions on it. Minimum wage is a reasonable restriction.

As to properly training the graduates that is not a bad idea. However, no matter how much you try, some people are going to end up at the bottom of the heap, with little or no skills. Minimum wage is a life saver to them.

In economic theory, there is no distinction. One is a price ceiling, the other a floor. They have the same effect but in reverse. With a ceiling, you increase demand owing to lower prices but reduce supply.With a floor, you increase supply (of workers let's say in the case of minimum wages) but reduce demand. Without such arbitrary minimum wages, a person could work for less if necessary.Now in Sweden, they have no minimum wage. What they do instead is improve education so that the worker's real market values is naturally high, thus making it worth hiring him at that wage without having to price him out of the market.
 
SirJosephPorter
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

It would seem that Sweden is now on SJP's rabid right list too. go figure! Sweden is about as leftist as democratic societies get overall.

Are you saying that Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage? I didn't know that, and that does surprise me. But Sweden is cradle to grave welfare state, so they must have figured that if somebody is getting starvation wages, the state can always help him out. All the same, it is surprising.

But most civilized societies do have a minimum wage. I think minimum wage also has a broad based popular support. The fact that even a place like Alberta has a minimum wage is the proof of that.
 
Machjo
#21
Personally, Canada needs to learn from its German and Swedish counterparts in how they integrate socialist ideas into the capitalist framework rather than pit them against one another as we seem to do in Canada.
 
AnnaG
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post

If there is a MINIMUM WAGE, there should be a MINIMUM requirement of goods/services provided to earn and deserve that wage.

... starting with the provincial ministers and top bureaucrats.

Quote:

Fair bet is that a test measuring the value of mimimum services/goods provided for a mimimum wage received would fail rather miserably, everywhere.

I doubt that. I have a friend who is a single mother with 3 minimum wage jobs. I doubt there's anyone in Canada that's working as hard as she is. Perhaps you are thinking about SOME of the teenaged kids who work a little in the summers?
 
Machjo
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter View Post

Are you saying that Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage? I didn't know that, and that does surprise me. But Sweden is cradle to grave welfare state, so they must have figures that if somebody is getting starvation wages, the state can always help him out. All the same, it is surprising.

But most civilized societies do have a minimum wage. I think minimum wage also has a broad based popular support. The fact that a place like Alberta has a minimum wage is the proof of that.

And what do you mean by 'civilized'. Is India not civilized to you, oh Raj?

No, Sweden has never, ever had a legal minimum wage. Instead, they've followed some solid economic theory in ensuring a quality education for all, thus increasing the market value of the worker. As a result, employers want to hire more workers because those workers actually make the company a profit. That is the smart market-oriented way of raising wages without arbitrarily pricing people out of the market and making their lives more difficult as a result. Now that is what I call civilized.
 
Machjo
#24
I think one reason social democracy has proven more successful in Swden is that, ironically enough, they also have a conservative side to balance it out. In terms of government debt, inflation and the Bank rates, they really are quite conservative.

Yin and Yang, I suppose.

And that might be where Canada is failing. The left is too far left and the right is too far right and the center just goes with the flow with no clear vision of its own.
 
AnnaG
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

A minimum wage hurts the very people it's intended to help; it essentially prices them out of the market.

A better alternative would likely be to scrap minimum wages altogether and just introduce co-determination laws as they do in Germany:

Co-determination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This way workers would still have enough power to ensure that their employers cannot exploit them unfairly, yet still give them the flexibility to accept a lower wage then that is genuinely the only option possible.

A minimum wage does neither. If the employer exploits his employees unfairly by paying them minimum wage when in fact they are making him much more profit than that, then a simple minimum wage gives them no recourse. And if the employer is genuinely not making enough money to pay minimum wage, then a minimum wage essentially legislates the worker out of a job.

Co-determination laws would allow him to accept a lower wage when necessary yet also be able to negotiate a fair wage when he's genuinely making his employer a lot of money.

I would say though that in order to not give workers too much power over their employers, co-determination laws would have to come in exchange for the right to strike. No more striking would be allowed after this, as that too is not fair to workers who need the money and who can't afford to strike.

That doesn't sound like too bad of an idea.
A lot depends upon the employer: when my friend and I had our gift shop, during the summer we hired up to 3 kids to help out. We gave them more than minimum wage and if we made higher profits we shared more with them. Unfortunately for us and more kids, the economy killed our business. But that's the sort of society we built.
 
Machjo
#26
Some have referred to Sweden and other Scandinavian countries as 'third Way' countries, since they freely adopt ideas from both the right and the left. Not to be confused with blind centrism.
 
VanIsle
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

... starting with the provincial ministers and top bureaucrats.

I doubt that. I have a friend who is a single mother with 3 minimum wage jobs. I doubt there's anyone in Canada that's working as hard as she is. Perhaps you are thinking about SOME of the teenaged kids who work a little in the summers?

Some teenaged kids do work hard. However, even the good workers often don't show up for work on the weekends or they show up so hung over they can barely function. The ones that actually show up though will probably get through life just fine because they "get it". People like myself, work every weekend because there is about a 100% chance I'm not going to call in and cancel the day due to a hangover.
We're having a terrible storm right now. There will be kids without cars that will call in "sick" simply because they don't want to be out in the storm.
Your friend is not alone in working her 3 jobs. There are lots of people like her and for kids who really want to go to university, lots of them are working at least 3 jobs. I work with kids who are going to school full time and trying to hold down at least 2 jobs so they can get through school. They sit at the lunchroom table trying to get their assignments done during their breaks.
If minimum wage was decent in BC, maybe your friend and others like her could get by on two jobs. Gordon Campbell - grinch!
 
SirJosephPorter
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

In economic theory, there is no distinction. One is a price ceiling, the other a floor. They have the same effect but in reverse. With a ceiling, you increase demand owing to lower prices but reduce supply.With a floor, you increase supply (of workers let's say in the case of minimum wages) but reduce demand. Without such arbitrary minimum wages, a person could work for less if necessary.Now in Sweden, they have no minimum wage. What they do instead is improve education so that the worker's real market values is naturally high, thus making it worth hiring him at that wage without having to price him out of the market.

You forget that Sweden is a cradle to grave welfare state, the government provides for just about everything. If an employer is paying somebody very little, no doubt the will be eligible for some assistance from the government. Government looks after everybody in Sweden.

That is not the case in places like Canada, and minimum wage is necessary. And regardless of what your economic theories say, there has been very little actual effect on unemployment when minimum wage is increased. Indeed, now that it has been increased over most of Canada, let us see if unemployment rockets through the roof in the next few months.

This is the seventh increase in minimum wage in seven years in Ontario, Liberals have raised minimum wage every year. I am not aware of any economic depression (with 20% unemployment) in Ontario, By the same token, PC party did not raise minimum wage for eight years that it was in power. I am not aware that there was a huge economic boom during Harris years (with unemployment of less than 1%) as a result.
 
AnnaG
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter View Post

VanIsle, I was surprised at the low minimum wage in BC. Low minimum wage in Alberta doesn’t surprise me. Considering that the whole province belongs to the rabid right, I am surprised they have a minimum wage at all.

Smarten up. Alberta is likely the cheapest provinces to live in. Why would the min. wage need to be up around ON's?

Quote:

Minimum wage is an essential part of the civilized society; it provides a floor, a protection for the lower class of the society, a minimum guarantee against unscrupulous employers. If we didn’t have minimum wage, people may literally starve in the streets.

Apparently you missed Machjo's post on co-determination. But, that's not surprising. You miss a great deal of stuff.

Quote:

Also, there have been no studies to show that minimum wage hurts employment. If that had been true, we would expect unemployment of 25 or 30 % today, the minimum wage has been increased many times.

Shooting your big mouth off before you know the facts, as usual ....
The Effect of Minimum Wage Increases on Retail and Small Business Employment | EPI Study

Employment and the Minimum Wage—Evidence from Recent State Labor Market Trends
 
lone wolf
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter View Post


This is the seventh increase in minimum wage in seven years in Ontario, Liberals have raised minimum wage every year. I am not aware of any economic depression (with 20% unemployment) in Ontario, By the same token, PC party did not raise minimum wage for eight years that it was in power. I am not aware that there was a huge economic boom during Harris years (with unemployment of less than 1%) as a result.


So.... Now you're saying that Ontario fared better under Harris Conservatives than we do now under McGuinty Liberals.....

Will you make up your mind which way you swing?

Left-right-left-right pendulum's on parade....
 

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