The War over the Polar Bear


dancing-loon
#1
Who is telling the truth about the fate of a Canadian icon?

Please, read the article in Macleans Feb.4th edition or on-line via the provided link below:
http://www.macleans.ca/science/envir...0123_5242_5242

I'll post a few condensed excerpts from the article.....
Quote:

..the noble animals that prowl the ice from Canada to Alaska to Russia will be going the same route as the dodo, thanks to global warming. The bears will be wiped out in just 40 years, if the ice keeps melting.
Another report states the bears are so hungry they resort to cannibalism.

Al Gore says, "their habitat is melting ...beautiful animals forced off the planet."

Chucky Gruben, an Inuvialuit hunter says, "so much of it is bulls--t." He is anxiously awaiting the decision from the US whether they will list the polar bear on the endangered species or not.
A listing would almost certainly end the polar bear sports hunt by barring US hunters from bringing their trophies back across the border. About 200 sport hunters get a chance to shoot a polar bear in Canada each year). And it would take as much as $60,000 out of his pocket, says Gruben, who has permits to take out two sports hunters this winter, each of whom would pay as much as $30,000 to go on what is considered the world's most challenging hunt.

The move to list the bear as threatened under the Endangered Species Act, is a calculated move by environmental groups to pressure The US government to act on global warming.
A decision from the US Gov. is expected next month.

The Canadian government seems content to sit at the sidelines!

What I hate about the whole thing is the killing of these innocent beautiful animals. WHY on earth would anybody pay 30,000 for a bloody piece of fur, or paws or whatever it is these perverted people crave!!! It should be forbidden a.s.a.p.!!!! What for does an Inuit need 60,000 a year? Does he go on vacation in Hawaii or to the Riviera? Or are his property taxes that high???
The world sure has changed. Money, money ....people will walk over carcasses - human or animal - to get their hands on some money.
 
lone wolf
#2
So what's the dispute? Polar bears are losing their ice pack. Locals are losing a source of income. Whether the bear is declared endangered doesn't change a thing. The ice and the hunter money are both melting. Bear is the big loser here.

Woof!
 
Nuggler
#3
As the pack ice goes, so goes the bear. They need the ice to hunt the 'ring seal' which is their primary source of food. No ice, they starve, and, as Wolf says; "the Bear is the loser".

But yes, the macho, money-bear-hunt is a bit sick making; whereas bear hunting for fur by the Inuit is perfectly ok with me. Meat and fur. No problem.

Although, I'm not an Inuit, so maybe I don't know all/any of the facts. Maybe they share the ;money and need it to buy stuff, since they don't live their traditional way of life and have come to rely on "society" (ours) for employment, or the lack thereof.

Great to judge, eh.

 
Zzarchov
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loon View Post

Who is telling the truth about the fate of a Canadian icon?

Please, read the article in Macleans Feb.4th edition or on-line via the provided link below:
http://www.macleans.ca/science/envir...0123_5242_5242

I'll post a few condensed excerpts from the article..... What I hate about the whole thing is the killing of these innocent beautiful animals. WHY on earth would anybody pay 30,000 for a bloody piece of fur, or paws or whatever it is these perverted people crave!!! It should be forbidden a.s.a.p.!!!! What for does an Inuit need 60,000 a year? Does he go on vacation in Hawaii or to the Riviera? Or are his property taxes that high???
The world sure has changed. Money, money ....people will walk over carcasses - human or animal - to get their hands on some money.


What strikes me is the bigotry in your post. Why does an Inuit need to make 60,000 a year? If you feel so strongly about the polar bear maybe you could pay the Inuit money to make him stop and YOU could live in grinding poverty.

Why is he less deserving of a vacation than you are? Why shouldn't he go to Hawaii for a vacation, plenty of people in the rest of Canada do.

Lets not even get into the costs of things in the arctic, want a two-four of beer? $100 please.

Im very much in favour of saving the polar bear, even if it does impact businesses built up on hunting them (sorry, find a new line of work as much as it sucks).

But the sheer racism to that post really floored me, it implied Inuit should act like some subservient group of nature lovers and be denied the same opportunities for income the rest of Canadians have.
 
Walter
#5
The summer ice is decreasing and the bear population is increasing; go figure.

The Polar Bear Population Has Doubled Over the Last 40 Years
  • Polar bears are currently managed in healthy numbers and, in fact, are currently at historic high population levels of two to three times the population of 30-40 years ago.
    • 1965: About 10,000 (IUCN 1966)
    • 1967: About 10,000 (Schuhmacher 1967)
    • 1972: Roughly estimated at 20,000 (DeMaster & Stirling 1981)
    • 1983: Perhaps 20,000 (Nowak & Paradiso 1983)
    • 1996: 20,000 - 30,000 (Watson 1996)
    • 1997: 22,000 - 27,000 (Garner 1997)
    • 1998: 22,130 - 27,030 (Truett & Johnson 2002)
    • 2001: At least 22,000 (Schliebe 2001)
    • 2002: 21,500 - 25,000 (Lunn et al. 2002)
    • 2005: 20,000 - 25,000 (Polar Bear Spec. Gr. 2005)
    • 2006: 20,000 - 25,000 (IUCN 2006)
    Source: Paul Massicot; ; Animal Info © 1999 - 2006 www.animalinfo.org/species/carnivor/ursumari.htm
 
dancing-loon
#6
Those stats/facts are being doubted and disputed. I left the link to the article as it is far to long to go into every aspect of it.
Yes, it also stated in my article that the population has increased, but the methods of counting are unreliable, not always accurate and therefore exists a confusion between the scientists, the environmentalists, the Natives and the US government who will or will not list the bears as an endangered species.
The Natives say they know best, because they live right there all the time. The scientists have their "methods"; the environmentalists their "reasons".
 
Unforgiven
#7
99.9% of all the species that ever lived are now extinct. While Polar Bears are beautiful and truly amazing creatures, that isn't a pass when it comes to nature. Could be that they have had their run and it's time to either evolve or bow out. Really to attempt anything else, is just putting off the inevitable.
 
karrie
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loon View Post

Who is telling the truth about the fate of a Canadian icon?

Please, read the article in Macleans Feb.4th edition or on-line via the provided link below:
http://www.macleans.ca/science/envir...0123_5242_5242

I'll post a few condensed excerpts from the article..... What I hate about the whole thing is the killing of these innocent beautiful animals. WHY on earth would anybody pay 30,000 for a bloody piece of fur, or paws or whatever it is these perverted people crave!!! It should be forbidden a.s.a.p.!!!! What for does an Inuit need 60,000 a year? Does he go on vacation in Hawaii or to the Riviera? Or are his property taxes that high???
The world sure has changed. Money, money ....people will walk over carcasses - human or animal - to get their hands on some money.

Yeah, no kidding. It's not like Inuits have kids who need clothes or medicine, or who might want to go to school or get married or anything their parents might want to pay for. And they all live in igloos, so no heating bills or mortgages or anything. They live off the land, so no grocery bills. Damn them for wanting to make a living of a WHOPPING $60 000 a year. Uppity bunch.
 
Tonington
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loon View Post

Those stats/facts are being doubted and disputed. I left the link to the article as it is far to long to go into every aspect of it.
Yes, it also stated in my article that the population has increased, but the methods of counting are unreliable, not always accurate and therefore exists a confusion between the scientists, the environmentalists, the Natives and the US government who will or will not list the bears as an endangered species.
The Natives say they know best, because they live right there all the time. The scientists have their "methods"; the environmentalists their "reasons".

The webpage isn't as bad as you think. They list the population trend as "decreasing", and acknowledge that the southern most population (Western Hudson Bay) is decreasing both in numbers and body condition, from environmental factors (less ice, more toxins).
 
dancing-loon
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov View Post

What strikes me is the bigotry in your post. Why does an Inuit need to make 60,000 a year? If you feel so strongly about the polar bear maybe you could pay the Inuit money to make him stop and YOU could live in grinding poverty.

Why is he less deserving of a vacation than you are? Why shouldn't he go to Hawaii for a vacation, plenty of people in the rest of Canada do.

Lets not even get into the costs of things in the arctic, want a two-four of beer? $100 please.

Im very much in favour of saving the polar bear, even if it does impact businesses built up on hunting them (sorry, find a new line of work as much as it sucks).

But the sheer racism to that post really floored me, it implied Inuit should act like some subservient group of nature lovers and be denied the same opportunities for income the rest of Canadians have.

You have misunderstood me completely... you are ripping a person apart who has not the least bit of racism in her! I am ignorant about the lives the Natives live. Yes, I see that now. I had no idea that they are big business people in the high North and conduct these blood sports. No idea! I always hear how poor they are, how their water is contaminated or the grounds are flooded, their youths are sniffing glue etc. Such stuff I have read in the papers.
I actually started a thread on how they are trying to block the Olympics because it is held on stolen land. I even wished they would succeed!
I don't need to further defend myself. You are like a raging bull who wants to see red!
 
karrie
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loon View Post

You have misunderstood me completely... you are ripping a person apart who has not the least bit of racism in her! I am ignorant about the lives the Natives live. Yes, I see that now. I had no idea that they are big business people in the high North and conduct these blood sports. No idea! I always hear how poor they are, how their water is contaminated or the grounds are flooded, their youths are sniffing glue etc. Such stuff I have read in the papers.
I actually started a thread on how they are trying to block the Olympics because it is held on stolen land. I even wished they would succeed!
I don't need to further defend myself. You are like a raging bull who wants to see red!

60 000 isn't big business. It's a living. A tiny one at that, when you consider how much more everything costs in the north (building supplies, food, natural gas, water).
 
Walter
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post

Could be that they have had their run and it's time to either evolve or bow out. Really to attempt anything else, is just putting off the inevitable.

Polar Bears have been around for many thousands of years. During that time there have been numerous warm spells and ice-ages and the Polar Bear has survived them all. I don't think they will have to evolve to survive the current warming trend (although the trend is currently stalled). They will adapt as they have before.
 
Unforgiven
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loon View Post

You have misunderstood me completely... you are ripping a person apart who has not the least bit of racism in her! I am ignorant about the lives the Natives live. Yes, I see that now. I had no idea that they are big business people in the high North and conduct these blood sports. No idea! I always hear how poor they are, how their water is contaminated or the grounds are flooded, their youths are sniffing glue etc. Such stuff I have read in the papers.
I actually started a thread on how they are trying to block the Olympics because it is held on stolen land. I even wished they would succeed!
I don't need to further defend myself. You are like a raging bull who wants to see red!

Welcome to the world of many view points. Don't take it so hard, some people can find bigotry in "Goodmorning".
 
Nuggler
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post

Welcome to the world of many view points. Don't take it so hard, some people can find bigotry in "Goodmorning".

Sure. I suppose that Goodmorning was meant for whites only eh!

 
Tonington
#15
Want to know how expensive it is? More than double the price for toilet paper. So, if you're up there, use two squares instead of four, or whatever
 
dancing-loon
#16
I was told they use snow wedgies!
 
Zzarchov
#17
Dancing-Loon,

Racism does not have to include Malice, I have no doubt you aren't trying to show malice or be mean.

But your post was incredibley racist none the less. You are opposed to a bloody sport, I can support that. But why would ask what an Inuit needs with $60,000? Thats less than the average Canadian two parent household by $14,000.

It IS racist even if its not meant to be hurtful, or even if you are "Pro-native". It's not about whether you support their positions, its about whether you consider them fundementally different than other human beings.
 
Lester
#18
4 liter of milk cost 20.00, loaf of bread if you can get it is 7.00 - 60k isn't exorbient, they are just trying to get by like the rest of us.

Found this interesting pic... cross between a grizzly and a polar bear - only one of it's kind in the wild..of course a hunter had to kill it.
 
#juan
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Lester View Post

4 liter of milk cost 20.00, loaf of bread if you can get it is 7.00 - 60k isn't exorbient, they are just trying to get by like the rest of us.

Found this interesting pic... cross between a grizzly and a polar bear - only one of it's kind in the wild..of course a hunter had to kill it.

Out of curiosity Lester. How does one tell it's a cross-breed? I've seen lots of grizzlies but few polar bears.
 
Lester
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan View Post

Out of curiosity Lester. How does one tell it's a cross-breed? I've seen lots of grizzlies but few polar bears.

The hunters noticed that it had patches of brown fur, and the skin surrounding the eyes was black it also had a distincly dish shaped face which is a feature of grizzlies- they seized the remains and did genetic testing which confirmed that it was a cross breed. I lost the link but you can google "polar bear grizzly cross" and it will come up.

Lester
 
CDNBear
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Lester View Post

The hunters noticed that it had patches of brown fur, and the skin surrounding the eyes was black it also had a distincly dish shaped face which is a feature of grizzlies- they seized the remains and did genetic testing which confirmed that it was a cross breed. I lost the link but you can google "polar bear grizzly cross" and it will come up.

Lester

If you don't mind me giving you a hand Lester...

Quote:

DNA Proves Hunter’s bear is first known wild Polar Bear-Grizzly Bear hybrid
Idaho hunter Jim Martell was polar bear hunting on Banks Island, in Canada’s Northwest Territories in mid-April when he got his game. Wildlife officials seized the prize after the hunt, however, when they noticed that its white fur was mottled with brown patches and its eyes were set inside thin circles of black skin, like a grizzly bear’s. A humped back, dished face and long claws also were features of a grizzly bear. Subsequent DNA analysis confirmed that the bear was a cross between the two breeds, the first ever discovered in the wild. The Northwest Territories Environment and Natural Resources Department returned the bear to Martell. Officials said that though interaction between the two species is not typical, grizzlies have been showing up in the region in small numbers in recent years. The drive to breed and the inability to find another grizzly bear may have led the grizzly to mate with the polar bear, biologists speculate. Though there is no established name for this cross, locals have been calling it a “pizzly” and a “grolar” bear.

Kingsoutdoorworld .com archives link

juans not so good with facts.
 
Lester
#22
Bear: it is amazing how nature adapts, I wonder how many other species came into existance this way.
 
CDNBear
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Lester View Post

Bear: it is amazing how nature adapts, I wonder how many other species came into existance this way.

I'm not sure, but I think this may explain me.
 
karrie
#24
Were they charged with poaching?

Because the last I knew, there's no license for hunting 'pizzly' bears.
 
CDNBear
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

Were they charged with poaching?

Because the last I knew, there's no license for hunting 'pizzly' bears.

From what I read way back when I first came upon this article. The Bear ostencibly appears to the layman as a Polar Bear with some minor appearance anomolies.

It wasn't until the Northwest Territories Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources conducted DNA test that it was determined to be a hybrid.

I don't think there are provisions in hunting laws to address genetic abnormalities.
 
gerryh
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I'm not sure, but I think this may explain me.


I'm not gonna touch this one.
 
CDNBear
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

I'm not gonna touch this one.

Wuss.
 

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