Canada goes to War


View Poll Results: Do you support the Mission
Yes 10 50.00%
No 8 40.00%
Humanitaran aid only 3 15.00%
Air support Yes 8 40.00%
Advisers on the ground Yes 8 40.00%
Advisers on the ground No 1 5.00%
Increased immigration of DP's Yes 2 10.00%
Increased immigration of DP's No 5 25.00%
Deploy FOO, Forward Observation Officer Yes 6 30.00%
Deploy FOO, Forward Observation Officer No 1 5.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

SLM
+1
#121
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss View Post

Canadian Content Forums goes to war.

Bah! Those are mere borderline skirmishes!
 
EagleSmack
+2 / -1
#122
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Eight Tornados now.


Oh 8!


So after all the well deserved criticism of the brits showing up late and with practically nothing they scrape up two more 1970's jets.


Pathetic.
 
55Mercury
+3
#123
to everything there is a season.

is war actually the right time to be belittling one's allies?

how about we get through this thing first?

there'll be plenty of time to flaunt your anatomies later.
 
EagleSmack
#124
Nah... they're well deserved.
 
SLM
+2
#125
Quote: Originally Posted by 55Mercury View Post

to everything there is a season.

is war actually the right time to be belittling one's allies?

how about we get through this thing first?

there'll be plenty of time to flaunt your anatomies later.

Sure but Blackleaf isn't an ally. I somehow doubt even the British would see him as such.
 
Blackleaf
+1 / -1
#126
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

Oh 8!


So after all the well deserved criticism of the brits showing up late and with practically nothing they scrape up two more 1970's jets.


Pathetic.

"1970s" planes which have been massively upgraded several times over the years with all the latest weaponry, including the Brimstone missile, much sought after by the Yankee Doodles because they don't have anything as good as it.
 
CDNBear
#127
I have to go with BL on this one. His Tornados beat our CF 18s hands down.
 
EagleSmack
+2
#128
10 Cold War aircraft and one destroyer... and late as usual. The brits are taking a back seat to pretty much every other nation.

What's with this missile only you've been saying it is sought after. We've been using similar missiles for years now. Our old Mavericks are better than that.

Even your own countrymen are laughing at the briddish effort.

The brits are late and are having little if any impact.
 
#juan
+2
#129
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I have to go with BL on this one. His Tornados beat our CF 18s hands down.

Depends how they use them. The Tornados should be better, they are years newer. The SuperHornet would likely be superior to the Tornado. Hopefully, they are on the same side,
 
CDNBear
#130
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan View Post

Depends how they use them. The Tornados should be better, they are years newer. The SuperHornet would likely be superior to the Tornado. Hopefully, they are on the same side,

We should have replaced our aging CF18s with Supers awhile ago.
 
Goober
#131
I liked Rae when he ran for the Leadership.
Kelly McParland: Justin Trudeau’s failure to launch | National Post

Bob Rae must wish he’d waited a few days before publishing his views on the threat of ISIS, and Canada’s role in dealing with it. If he had, he might not have to figure out how he can make his views sound like they mesh with those of Justin Trudeau, the man who succeeded him as Liberal leader

Notice Mr. Rae did not suggest Canada should withhold military assistance. He took for granted that Canada would need to contribute to such an obvious cause. He simply felt it should go farther than just a military role. And he explained his view in some detail:

There are some who quite mistakenly compare any decision to engage militarily against IS with the invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. This is hardly the same issue. The government of Iraq has asked for military assistance. The regional government of Iraqi Kurdistan has done the same. The Kurdish, Christian, and other minorities in northern Iraq and Syria are under siege. To equate this with the invasion of Iraq over a decade ago is wrong.

Some also say that what is happening in the Middle East is essentially a battle within Islam itself, and that those opposing violent extremists should simply be encouraged to band together. This is a little too easy, since the threat to security doesn’t fall within such simple boundaries.

This is not a holy war, nor is it a crusade. It is about providing tangible help to people and governments who need it. Will it happen elsewhere ? Almost assuredly, yes, because this kind of violence is always testing the resilience of democracy.

This is not about “peace” versus “war”. This is about something different – the collective capacity of governments and international institutions to deal effectively with perpetrators of violence. In some distant future, the rules of engagement and enforcement may be clearer, the capacities of international police forces may be stronger. In the meantime, we have to deal with the worst examples, and the greatest threats. The rule of law requires nothing less.

Two days later Mr. Trudeau rose in the House of Commons to announce the Liberal party would vote against the government’s proposal to offer military assistance, before a debate (demanded by Mr. Trudeau and NDP leader Thomas Mulcair) could take place. In doing so he specifically compared the current situation to the 2003 war.

The 2003 Iraq war was waged on false pretenses and flawed intelligence. It was a mission that destabilized the region, sowed further conflict, cost our allies around three trillion dollars, and cost thousands of people their lives. The world is still dealing with the consequences of that mistake.

.He added that “ we cannot make the wrong decision now because the wrong decision was made then,” but then went on to make the wrong decision.

As Mr. Rae pointed out, the two situations are in no way similar. Canada is responding to the pleas of an elected government for assistance against a terrorist organization that has made specific threats to export its barbaric attacks to Canada. It is aiding brutalized minorities whose very existence is under threat. In his words, “it is about providing tangible help to people and governments who need it.”
 
damngrumpy
#132
Yes we have to do something about thugs in these countries because we are not immune
from them training fighters to destroy our facilities at home. Having said that if we can afford
the war effort we can no longer claim we can't afford post secondary education for our young
people, we can afford to look after seniors, veterans and those on the marginal edge of society.
If we can afford to destroy things with weapons we can afford to enrich the lives of Canadians.
The government must stop taking us backwards and they must cease the dismantling of our
social infrastructure. Me thinks however that that will only happen once the current government
becomes the Canadian Government once again and not Harper's Government as he has laid
claim to.

Even viewing these slim forum vote numbers as unscientific as they are they paint a slight
Canadian picture of what citizens are thinking and if I were Mr Harper I would be careful as
to what he commits too. Most Canadians do not support outright war at the moment and
they will support it less once the discussion is held. As much as i don't like the Tories and I
don't support Harper, this is a genuine case of we had better stop it there than have it here.
 
Goober
#133
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy View Post

Yes we have to do something about thugs in these countries because we are not immune
from them training fighters to destroy our facilities at home. Having said that if we can afford
the war effort we can no longer claim we can't afford post secondary education for our young
people, we can afford to look after seniors, veterans and those on the marginal edge of society.
If we can afford to destroy things with weapons we can afford to enrich the lives of Canadians.
The government must stop taking us backwards and they must cease the dismantling of our
social infrastructure. Me thinks however that that will only happen once the current government
becomes the Canadian Government once again and not Harper's Government as he has laid
claim to.

Even viewing these slim forum vote numbers as unscientific as they are they paint a slight
Canadian picture of what citizens are thinking and if I were Mr Harper I would be careful as
to what he commits too. Most Canadians do not support outright war at the moment and
they will support it less once the discussion is held. As much as i don't like the Tories and I
don't support Harper, this is a genuine case of we had better stop it there than have it here.

Oh we can afford all of that. Taxes go up. I am OK with that.
And no way in hell will Harper put troops into combat roles.
I excluded the air force from this but they are in a combat role.
 
Zipperfish
#134
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

The 2003 Iraq war was waged on false pretenses and flawed intelligence. It was a mission that destabilized the region, sowed further conflict, cost our allies around three trillion dollars, and cost thousands of people their lives. The world is still dealing with the consequences of that mistake.

True enough. What McParland doesn't say here is that he was one of the primary purveyors of that pretence.
 
Goober
#135
Quote: Originally Posted by Zipperfish View Post

True enough. What McParland doesn't say here is that he was one of the primary purveyors of that pretence.

True enough as many were. I cannot recall the name of the reporters working for a paper in Colorado, I think that laid out clearly the lies being fed to the public.
And yes they were attacked nation wide.

Now we are in differing situation.
 
Goober
+1
#136
John Ivison: Trudeau’s support slipping after failing to back mission against ISIS, poll indicates | National Post

OTTAWA — The Liberals have done a good job portraying Stephen Harper as the corkscrew prime minister — cold, sharp and twisted.

The contrast with their own leader, Justin Trudeau, has been stark. While Mr. Harper has been engaged in the murky fog of government, Mr. Trudeau has been telling fables about “sunny ways” – “persuasion is superior to force; kindness trumps aggression.”

Unfortunately for the Liberal leader, though, voters don’t seem to agree that kindness trumps aggression when dealing with the Islamic State of Al-Sham.

A new poll by Nanos Research suggests that the unparalleled lead Mr. Trudeau had established, when Canadians were asked about their preference for prime minister, has been whittled down, after his party opted not to back the government’s plan to send CF-18 jets to Iraq.

What was an eight percentage point lead on the leadership question is now down to just five points. Even that-three point drop in one week is misleading, since the leadership poll is a four-week rolling average.
 
Blackleaf
#137
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan View Post

Depends how they use them. The Tornados should be better, they are years newer. The SuperHornet would likely be superior to the Tornado. Hopefully, they are on the same side,


The Typhoon, of which the RAF has ordered 160, will be the best fighter aircraft in the world once it is equipped with the RAF Brimstone missiles that the Tornados currently use.

Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

10 Cold War aircraft and one destroyer... and late as usual.

Ten "Cold War aircraft" that have been massively upgraded with all the latest weaponry - including the much sought after Brimstone missile - and the most powerful air defence destroyer on the planet, which is guarding a US aircraft carrier.

Quote:

What's with this missile only you've been saying it is sought after. We've been using similar missiles for years now. Our old Mavericks are better than that.

The RAF's Brimstone missile is much sought after by many countries, including the Americans (who are thinking of using it on the Super Hornet) and the French. The missile has a small blast area which minimises collateral damage. The Yanks don't have any missile like it. That's why RAF Tornados, which are equipped with the missile, are able to hit targets that the USAF and other air forces refuse to go after, because they are scared of inflicting collateral damage.



In April 2011, the RAF's Assistant Chief of the Air Staff Air Vice Marshal Baz North reported that the missiles were "being sought by both the United States of America and the French" in the light of Brimstone's success in Libya.

Brimstone Evaluation Trial - YouTube


British Brimstone Missile in Action: A Tank's Worst Nightmare....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo6M1...yer_detailpage

In early 2014 the US Congress' House Armed Services Committee showed interest again in the missile; high-ranking members of the US armed services have stated they "like it" and if they do choose it they "need it out soon". The French Air Force were still thinking about a purchase in March 2012, with a prime consideration being lower collateral damage compared to the AASM. India has made a request for information about integrating Brimstone on their Sukhoi Su-30MKI fleet. MBDA hopes that firings conducted in the U.S. intended for the U.K. to test the feasibility of arming British MQ-9 Reaper UAVs with the missile will persuade the U.S. military to purchase the Brimstone 2. In July 2014, it was revealed that the United States Navy was beginning environmental and integration analysis of the Dual Mode Brimstone for use on the F/A-18 Super Hornet.


Quote:

Even your own countrymen are laughing at the briddish effort.

The brits are late and are having little if any impact.


We're also laughing at the American effort, too. What effect have your airstrikes had?
Last edited by Blackleaf; Oct 16th, 2014 at 05:26 AM..
 
Goober
#138
America's Awkward Alliance With Turkey Just Got More Awkward - Defense One

On Tuesday, Turkey finally launched its first airstrikes since the United States formally announced its campaign against Islamic State forces in Syria and Iraq. The only catch was that Turkish planes targeted the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (best known as the P.K.K.) in southeastern Turkey rather than Islamic State forces in Syria.

Turkey and the P.K.K. have done decades-long battle over the latter’s aspiration to create a Kurdish state, violence that has only tapered off recently after the two sides signed a ceasefire last spring. The timing of the Turkish airstrikes were meaningful: Syrian Kurds (with the help of American-led airstrikes) are trying to fend off an ISIS advance in nearby Kobani while Washington is trying to wrangle Turkey into finally committing to the fight against Islamic State forces.

Turkey claimed the airstrikes, the first in two years, were prompted by a P.K.K. attack on a military outpost, but as The Times reports, analysts say “Turkey’s leaders see the battle for Kobani mostly as a chance to let two of its enemies duke it out, rather than as a cause for alarm.”

On Thursday, things got a little stranger. The State Department announced that it had held direct talks with the Kurdish Democratic Union Party (P.Y.D.), a Syrian Kurdish group that is linked to the P.K.K. In other words, American diplomats met with the Syrian affiliate of a group that Turkey had just bombed and that the United States has listed as a terrorist organization since 1997.

http://rt.com/news/196828-isis-withdraw-kobani-fight/

Islamic State fighters have been driven out of Kobani, the Kurdish town that straddles the Syrian-Turkish border, after weeks of heavy fighting, according to Kurdish sources speaking to RT.

A Kurdish commander said that ISIS retreated overnight – withdrawing by 2 km east and 9 km west.

The Kurds are now clearing the city. The Islamists have left behind suicide bombers hiding in the ruins of the various buildings in the city.

"We can still hear sporadic gunfire and explosions coming from Kobani," RT's Murad Gazdiev reports from the Turkish-Syrian border.
 
MHz
#139
I am so not shocked by this development. lol
ISIS: From guerrillas to conquerors - CNN.com
Given the disorganized state of the ground forces arrayed against them, and the limitations of airpower for rolling back such an enemy, this may well be enough to allow ISIS to maintain control of most of its newly declared Caliphate for a long while yet.
 
DaSleeper
#140
Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

I am so not shocked by this development. lol
.


And that makes you happy....hence the lol
 
MHz
#141
It makes me laugh as it shows liars for what they are. And you as the simpleton who hangs on their every word. In case you missed the headline, the US just admitted defeat. lol. Too bad they don't speak for Syria.
Sure it show that ISIS was always meant to have control unless the US military just shows the world it can't fight it's way out of a wet paper bag. I love it when hypocrites are exposed. Take you choice, ISIS is where it is because the US (and others) want it that way or the US has just been defeated by some rag-tag rebels. Either way ISIS will have control and it always had the blessing of the US and Israel as they are their boys, that is the complete opposite of your theory. That's worth a laugh too as it just add to how many times you have been as wrong as wrong gets.
 
Goober
#142
State Department Clears Sale of 46,000 Tank Rounds for Iraq - Defense One

The U.S. State Department has cleared a $600 million sale of 26,000 120-millimeter armor-piercing tank rounds for the Iraqi Army’s M1A1 Abrams tank fleet.

Syria tribal revolt against Islamic State ignored, fueling resentment - The Washington Post

REYHANLI, Turkey — The cost of turning against the Islamic State was made brutally apparent in the streets of a dusty backwater town in eastern Syria in early August. Over a three-day period, vengeful fighters shelled, beheaded, crucified and shot hundreds of members of the Shaitat tribe after they dared to rise up against the extremists.

By the time the killing stopped, 700 people were dead, activists and survivors say, making this the bloodiest single atrocity committed by the Islamic State in Syria since it declared its existence 18 months ago.

U.S. warplanes have carried out more airstrikes on Islamic State forces besieging the Kurdish town of Kobane on Syria’s border with Turkey than on any other single location in Iraq or Syria. And Washington announced Sunday that U.S. planes had airdropped weapons and medical supplies to the beleaguered Kurdish fighters there.

Yet even now, Washington has directed little effort toward helping Sunni Arabs who want to fight the militants but lack the resources to do so, said Abu Salem, who was among the Shaitat tribesman and rebel commanders who gathered recently in an apartment in the Turkish border town of Reyhanli to recount the killings of their clansmen.

“We saw what the Americans did to help the Yazidis and the Kurds. But they have done nothing to help the Sunnis against the Islamic State,” he said.

Such comments have reinforced perceptions among Syrians that the U.S.-led air war does not have their interests at heart. Differences over the purposes and direction of the war risk alienating the many rebel groups that were engaged in battling the Islamic State before the U.S. government intervened, said Steven Heydemann of the U.S. Institute of Peace.

“It’s already become an impediment,” he said. “I don’t think the administration has fully taken on board how much damage the way they’ve conducted this campaign has done to the relationships they’ve developed with some of these actors.”
 
BaalsTears
+1
#143
America lacks sufficient human intelligence on the ground to be able to determine who all the players are in Iraq and Syria. Obama's flying blind.
 
Locutus
+1
#144
CBC NewsVerified account ‏@CBCNews

CF-18s arrive in Kuwait for anti-ISIS mission http://www.cbc.ca/1.2817265

 
Goober
#145
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTears View Post

America lacks sufficient human intelligence on the ground to be able to determine who all the players are in Iraq and Syria. Obama's flying blind.

Certain things needed to be addressed. Qatar has been fundraising central for Al Nusra. Qatar plays all sides of the fence. One reason why many Arab countries recalled their ambassadors. Qatar is trying to play in the big leagues and by playing all sides, they gain influence.
A month or so ago, some members of the Muslim Brotherhood - stories vary, left Qatar.
 
BaalsTears
#146
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Certain things needed to be addressed. Qatar has been fundraising central for Al Nusra. Qatar plays all sides of the fence. One reason why many Arab countries recalled their ambassadors. Qatar is trying to play in the big leagues and by playing all sides, they gain influence.
A month or so ago, some members of the Muslim Brotherhood - stories vary, left Qatar.

You know more about the cast of characters in the middle east than does anyone in the Obama Administration.

It should be remembered that it was Qatar that shipped American weapons to the Libyan rebels who ultimately killed Gadhafi, and subsequently killed four Americans in Benghazi. Qatar has become quite the bad actor.
 
Goober
+1
#147
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTears View Post

You know more about the cast of characters in the middle east than does anyone in the Obama Administration.

It should be remembered that it was Qatar that shipped American weapons to the Libyan rebels who ultimately killed Gadhafi, and subsequently killed four Americans in Benghazi. Qatar has become quite the bad actor.

Reason they are being isolated. They are now trying to renter the fold.
 
BaalsTears
#148
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Reason they are being isolated. They are now trying to renter the fold.

And they will be allowed to reenter the fold by Obama's boys and girls. It's like watching a beaten dog licking the hand of the person who beat it.
 
damngrumpy
#149
Its about time we faced a serious fact here. Like it or not we are going to be at war,
Either the war will be over there and it will eventually come here I have no doubt of
that.
We have been at war with a radical element of Islam promoted and financed by
some of our friends. The difference is ISIS is embolden and now they are even
prepared to go at some of their friends. Iran, Saudi Arabia and others are getting
nervous and quietly discussing action with nontraditional fiends even though no one
will admit it.
We've been at war and they have a head start because our heads have been buried
in the sand. We engage in niceties while their friends blow things up and then a
Mosque is built next to the destruction
Yes there are many nice people who mean no harm and they don't like what's happening
but what label should they wear so we know the good ones from the bad ones?
This is not about race either Muslims come in all colors and nationalities but then these
Militia groups in rural areas of Canada and America are also pulling at the fabric of the
nation
One thing that concerns me is stupid people those who will shoot anyone wearing a
turban not realizing more than Muslims wear turbans
I don't know what the answer is and how we are going to solve the problems pending
but we better figure it out because events at the Parliament Building are just the
begiing.

Oh and this poll shows that as many people are divided about no as are in favor
 
BaalsTears
#150
Americans won't fight effectively until they feel endangered. That means the war will have to come to North America on a more than sporadic basis. Unfortunately, I know the Americans too well.