All Will Be Made Alive

Motar
+1
#1
The published global mortality rate due to the pandemic microbe is < 1%.
https://www.who.int/news-room/commen...-from-covid-19

The published and apparent mortality rate due to sin is 100%.
(Romans 6:23; 1 Corinthians 15:22)

What is the recovery rate with Christ?
(1 Corinthians 15:22)
 
Cliffy
+1
#2
 
Motar
#3
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:22)
 
Cliffy
+1
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Motar View Post

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:22)

No one gives a shit. Where ever you've been hiding for the past few years, go back there.
 
Motar
#5
How have you been, Cliffy? Did you see my friend request?
 
Motar
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Motar View Post

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:22)

To my understanding, there is 100% recovery in Christ.
 
Cliffy
+1
#7
 
Girth
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Motar View Post

The published global mortality rate due to the pandemic microbe is < 1%.
https://www.who.int/news-room/commen...-from-covid-19
The published and apparent mortality rate due to sin is 100%.
(Romans 6:23; 1 Corinthians 15:22)
What is the recovery rate with Christ?
(1 Corinthians 15:22)

You do have a point, if you are speaking in metaphorical terms. When we do bad things, and engage in self destructive behavior, a little part of us dies inside.

I am a sinner, and believe in salvation.
 
Motar
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Girth View Post

You do have a point, if you are speaking in metaphorical terms. When we do bad things, and engage in self destructive behavior, a little part of us dies inside.
I am a sinner, and believe in salvation.

I appreciate your thoughtful response, Girth. I would be interested to hear more about the metaphorical approach to the thread topic.
 
Motar
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Girth View Post

You do have a point, if you are speaking in metaphorical terms. When we do bad things, and engage in self destructive behavior, a little part of us dies inside.
I am a sinner, and believe in salvation.

One metaphor of Scripture which seems particularly relevant in our day is labor pains. Here is Jesus' response to his students' questions about eschatological trends and timeline:

"Jesus answered: 'Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains'" (Matthew 24:4-8, NIV).

Unprecedented global tribulations are increasing in frequency and intensity today like "birth pangs".
 
Cliffy
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Motar View Post


Unprecedented global tribulations are increasing in frequency and intensity today like "birth pangs".

Na. Mother Earth is about to take a shit. She's fed up with our disrespect, ignorance and abuse. She will scrape us off like fleas.
 
Motar
#12
Heavenly Father seems so much more patient and gracious, Cliffy.

Peter observes: “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish” (1 Peter 3:9).

Paul adds that God “wants all people to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:3).
 
Cliffy
+1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Motar View Post

Heavenly Father seems so much more patient and gracious, Cliffy.

Peter observes: “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish” (1 Peter 3:9).

Paul adds that God “wants all people to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:3).

Ya, right. The old testament is a blood bath of those who pissed him off. Your god is a psychopath.
 
Dexter Sinister
+2
#14  Top Rated Post
He just got some good anger management courses between the Old and New Testaments, then around the year 95 CE he lost it again and had someone named John write all about the end of the world he was going to make happen. According to that book the end was coming pretty soon, but after over 1900 years without it happening I think we can safely assume John got it wrong.

Or gawd changed his mind.

Or the book isn't really about what so many people think it is.
Last edited by Dexter Sinister; Aug 31st, 2020 at 11:11 PM..
 
Motar
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Ya, right. The old testament is a blood bath of those who pissed him off. Your god is a psychopath.

I don't know about that, Cliffy.

Moses, Nehemiah, David, Joel and Jonah all describe God as "merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love" (Exodus 34:6; Nehemiah 9:17; Psalm 86:15; 103:8; 145:8; Joel 2:13 and Jonah 4:2).
 
Motar
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

He just got some good anger management courses between the Old and New Testaments, then around the year 95 CE he lost it again and had someone named John write all about the end of the world he was going to make happen. According to that book the end was coming pretty soon, but after over 1900 years without it happening I think we can safely assume John got it wrong.
Or gawd changed his mind.
Or the book isn't really about what so many people think it is.

Hello Dex. How have you been? What do you think the book is about?
 
Dexter Sinister
+1
#17
I'm well, thank you. The book is like all apocalyptic books: the true believers are being persecuted and evil seems ascendant, so it's to reassure those who might be weakening in their faith that all is well, there is a divine plan being worked out, the wicked will soon be taken down and the righteous will rise. It's most probably about the widespread persecution of the faithful by the Roman Emperor Domitian in the closing years of the first century. One thing it's definitely NOT about is modern times.
 
Motar
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

I'm well, thank you. The book is like all apocalyptic books: the true believers are being persecuted and evil seems ascendant, so it's to reassure those who might be weakening in their faith that all is well, there is a divine plan being worked out, the wicked will soon be taken down and the righteous will rise. It's most probably about the widespread persecution of the faithful by the Roman Emperor Domitian in the closing years of the first century. One thing it's definitely NOT about is modern times.

Good to hear you’re well. What other apocalyptic books? You are a biblical preterist then?
 
Dexter Sinister
+1
#19
Isaiah and Daniel contain apocalyptic sections, there are apocalyptic bits in the Quran as well, and there's a pretty substantial literature about the Apocalypse outside of any scriptures. No I am not a preterist, pretty much the opposite: none of the prophecies of the Apocalypse have been fulfilled, and none ever will be, because God is a fictional character who can't make anything happen at all.
 
Motar
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Isaiah and Daniel contain apocalyptic sections, there are apocalyptic bits in the Quran as well, and there's a pretty substantial literature about the Apocalypse outside of any scriptures. No I am not a preterist, pretty much the opposite: none of the prophecies of the Apocalypse have been fulfilled, and none ever will be, because God is a fictional character who can't make anything happen at all.

Isaiah 24-27, Daniel 7-12, Ezekiel 37-41, Zechariah 9-12 and Revelation, right?

Apocalupsis (Gr.) means revelation. Revelation of ... ?

I believe the Quran borrows eschatology from the Abrahamic faiths, does it not?

From my reading of it, the Bible (Book) is about reconciliation and regeneration.
 
Dexter Sinister
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Motar View Post

Isaiah 24-27, Daniel 7-12, Ezekiel 37-41, Zechariah 9-12 and Revelation, right?

I'll assume so, I haven't looked up chapter and verse to verify, but that sounds right. There's another one in the Apocrypha too, 2 Esdras.
Quote:

Apocalupsis (Gr.) means revelation. Revelation of ... ?

It means revealing things that would otherwise remain permanently hidden because they're not accessible to human reason. I take that to mean there's no evidence for them, and I like Christopher Hitchens' idea about that: what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Quote:

I believe the Quran borrows eschatology from the Abrahamic faiths, does it not?

Yes, and a lot more too, it's heavily derivative of biblical tales, to the point that I think it could fairly be called plagiarized, but nobody cared much about that 1400 years ago. It's also spectacularly dull and repetitive, a difficult read, at least in the English translation I've seen. For all I know it may be sublime poetry in the original Arabic, the local Islamic proselytizer, Torch light or selfsame or eanassir or whatever he's calling himself these days (I don't pay much attention to him) would no doubt claim it is, but that's no good to people who can't read Arabic. Gotta wonder about the intelligence of a deity who provides a message that's inaccessible to most of humanity.
Quote:

From my reading of it, the Bible (Book) is about reconciliation and regeneration.

Only if you cherry pick the parts that support that conclusion. A lot of it's pretty horrible, especially in the Old Testament, but the Bible is a sufficiently large and complex text that you could probably find support in it for almost any position you'd care to take. I like 1 Thessalonians 5:21: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." The skeptic's mantra.
 
Motar
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

I like 1 Thessalonians 5:21: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

I like that exhortation, too, Dex. Paul’s whole admonition to the church in Thessalonica concerning Christian living is compelling:

“Rejoice always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. Do not quench the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil.” (1Thessalonians 5:16-22, NIV)
 
Dexter Sinister
#23
I still prefer the rolling phrases of the KJV, even though the rather archaic language (English has changed a lot since 1611) makes some things a little harder to understand. It's what I grew up with and is still the version most familiar to me.
 
Motar
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

I still prefer the rolling phrases of the KJV, even though the rather archaic language (English has changed a lot since 1611) makes some things a little harder to understand. It's what I grew up with and is still the version most familiar to me.

I completely understand, Dex. I prefer the NIV because it is the Bible version placed in my hand by the One who called me out of darkness into His wonderful light!
 
Dexter Sinister
+1
#25
I have no concept of what that statement means, I have no belief in anything that could be called "the One." I got my KJV version from my mother in my early teens, because I asked her for one as a birthday gift. She was a believer and happy to oblige. I am not a believer, in fact I think one of the surer routes to atheism is to read and try to understand that book in its entirety, but if you want to make sense of much of the contemporary world it's a book you have to know, and I'd figured that out by age 14.
 
Motar
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

I have no concept of what that statement means, I have no belief in anything that could be called "the One." I got my KJV version from my mother in my early teens, because I asked her for one as a birthday gift. She was a believer and happy to oblige. I am not a believer, in fact I think one of the surer routes to atheism is to read and try to understand that book in its entirety, but if you want to make sense of much of the contemporary world it's a book you have to know, and I'd figured that out by age 14.

Your testimony blesses my heart, Dex.

My prior statement is based on 1 Peter 2:9.

The historical context of this verse involves the Roman desecration and demolition of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. The apostle Peter writes to the dispersed believers a word of encouragement concerning the holy, living, indestructible dwelling God assembled to replace it:

"If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed" (1 Peter 3:8, KJV)

Christ is the chief corner stone of the church (believers), the current dwelling place of God by His Spirit.
 
Dexter Sinister
+1
#27
Well, I agree that the Romans seriously messed up the temple, that's a historical fact attested to by non-biblical sources, but I think the rest of that's just made up and has nothing to do with reality. I became convinced long ago that religious belief is a delusion. It's a delusion approved of and supported by every civilization I've ever heard of, but that has nothing to do with its truth content. The core claim, that there's at least one supernatural being that has some interest in us, I think is almost certainly false, there are no such beings. From gods to tooth fairies, they're all human inventions and have no reality outside the realm of ideas. That seems on the evidence the conclusion most likely to be correct, to me. A lifetime in the sciences has borne in on me the knowledge that I must never lose sight of the fact that I might be wrong, so I will not dogmatically state there is no deity, I think that's logically indefensible, but I will state that I don't believe there is. But the difference between "I believe there isn't" and "I don't believe there is" is a philosophical subtlety that's lost on many people.
 
Mowich
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Well, I agree that the Romans seriously messed up the temple, that's a historical fact attested to by non-biblical sources, but I think the rest of that's just made up and has nothing to do with reality. I became convinced long ago that religious belief is a delusion. It's a delusion approved of and supported by every civilization I've ever heard of, but that has nothing to do with its truth content. The core claim, that there's at least one supernatural being that has some interest in us, I think is almost certainly false, there are no such beings. From gods to tooth fairies, they're all human inventions and have no reality outside the realm of ideas. That seems on the evidence the conclusion most likely to be correct, to me. A lifetime in the sciences has borne in on me the knowledge that I must never lose sight of the fact that I might be wrong, so I will not dogmatically state there is no deity, I think that's logically indefensible, but I will state that I don't believe there is. But the difference between "I believe there isn't" and "I don't believe there is" is a philosophical subtlety that's lost on many people.


Well put, Dex. Good to see you posting again.
 
Mowich
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Motar View Post

To my understanding, there is 100% recovery in Christ.


What understanding would that be? It most certainly is not backed up by FACTS as there are hundreds of Christ embracing Christians dropping dead all over the world. I guess they just aren't the ones that your christ is interested in saving?
 
Dexter Sinister
+1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

Well put, Dex. Good to see you posting again.

Thanks, been pretty busy with other things until recently (three new grandchildren, for instance), and this place seemed infested with people I found intolerable, I wasn't having any fun being pursued from post to post by lunatics, so I went away for a while. But the worst offenders have been timed out (long past due, in my not very humble opinion), so I decided to dip my toe into the water again.
 

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