Birth control to save the planet


coldstream
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

And theology starts with the preconceived idea that all things were created by a god and works backwards from there. Your selective reasoning is no different than the sciences you rail against. You choose to approach life from your angle and others from theirs. There is no difference. What you fail to understand is that there are no absolutes except in your little world.

Every religion has its own theologians who base their study on their particular brand of dogma, so within the theological community there is no consensus of opinion either. Your transcendent realities are all relative to the particular dogma of the observer. Your whole argument is as full of holes as that you accuse science of.

Theology is known as the queen of sciences because it has been thought that the study of God, by definition the source of all truth, informed and illuminated all other branches of knowledge.

Far from working backwards, an theological groundwork organizes the imagination to a fundamental truth of origins.

There is a reason why the West has been the crucible of all the worlds advanced sciences, research and technology for the past millenia. It stems from the great universities, all formed fundamentally as theological exponents within the Church, and from which the scientific empirical method developed.

All science corresponds to a fundamental view of creation. Once Western science decided the relativistic maxims of mathematics and indeterminancy were the Queens of Science, the whole process became wayward, becoming increasingly political, trivial.. and finally projected boundless belief systems within themselves. Look at mess modern physics is in, which hasn't produced any useful technology since WW2.

It's become a conceit, with its own tenured priesthood, promulgating an atheistic dogma.
 
Dexter Sinister
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

...hasn't produced any useful technology since WW2.

Since WW2!? Where have you been? What did you type that message on?
 
Niflmir
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Since WW2!? Where have you been? What did you type that message on?

I hardly use the internet at all.
 
JLM
#34
I think it has more to do with the behaviour of the people on the planet than the actual numbers.
 
AnnaG
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

Theology is known as the queen of sciences because it has been thought that the study of God, by definition the source of all truth, informed and illuminated all other branches of knowledge.

Far from working backwards, an theological groundwork organizes the imagination to a fundamental truth of origins.

There is a reason why the West has been the crucible of all the worlds advanced sciences, research and technology for the past millenia. It stems from the great universities, all formed fundamentally as theological exponents within the Church, and from which the scientific empirical method developed.

All science corresponds to a fundamental view of creation. Once Western science decided the relativistic maxims of mathematics and indeterminancy were the Queens of Science, the whole process became wayward, becoming increasingly political, trivial.. and finally projected boundless belief systems within themselves. Look at mess modern physics is in, which hasn't produced any useful technology since WW2.

It's become a conceit, with its own tenured priesthood, promulgating an atheistic dogma.

wow I think you not only are an inquisitor, but are also living somewhere between 1500 and 1800. I have no idea wheere you've been living but there have been quite a few advances. The discovery that neutrinos have mass and that the expansion of the universe is accelerating are two biggies I have read about. Some guys even got the Nobel for work that added to work explaining why the universe exists. Then there is this stuff:

Major Physics Breakthrough In Understanding Supersolidity

You don't get out much, do you, Mr. Stream? Too busy with your nose in everyone else's bedrooms or the Bible to read or discover anything else maybe?
 
AnnaG
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

I hardly use the internet at all.

Yeah, we're still scribbling on scrolls with quills like Mr. Stream.
 
Tonington
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Since WW2!? Where have you been? What did you type that message on?

Well, it can't have had semi-conductors as part of it's electronic suite. Nothing useful since WWII...I could throw an open can of Alphagetti at the wall and it would still make more sense than the garbage you post in science threads.
 
Cliffy
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

Well, it can't have had semi-conductors as part of it's electronic suite. Nothing useful since WWII...I could throw an open can of Alphagetti at the wall and it would still make more sense than the garbage you post in science threads.

Who are you aiming this response, Dexter or Coldstream?
 
Cliffy
#39
Coldstream,
"Theology is known as the queen of sciences because it has been thought that the study of God, by definition the source of all truth, informed and illuminated all other branches of knowledge."

Are there any Buddhist theologians, or Hindu or Muslim or Native American? Not that I've heard of. It seems to be something that is only relevant to Christianity, which is the Disney version of religion. Your god is one of many thousands that have passed our way and have passed on. Your god is overdue for retirement as he has outlived his usefulness.

The proof of anything is in the pudding and there is no pudding in the bowl of Christianity. We have outgrown our need for psychopathic tyrants to rule over us (at least many of us have).
 
AnnaG
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Who are you aiming this response, Dexter or Coldstream?

Cliffy, I am pretty sure it was directed at Mr. Stream. lol Gawd, you are funny sometimes. But, then he did quote Dexter. I think Tonington might have boobooed. lol
 
Dexter Sinister
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Who are you aiming this response, Dexter or Coldstream?

Has to be Coldstream, Toni wouldn't say that about me.
 
AnnaG
#42
The origin of science may have been theology, but it is belittled in the glaring light of science since. Can you guess why?

Because science evolves, theology hasn't. Religion is being left in the dust of antiquity along with the purposes of alchemy, phrenology, and other old "sciences".
 
Cliffy
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

The origin of science may have been theology, but it is belittled in the glaring light of science since. Can you guess why?

Because science evolves, theology hasn't. Religion is being left in the dust of antiquity along with the purposes of alchemy, phrenology, and other old "sciences".

I think you are right about coldstream being in a time warp - inquisitor from the 16th century. I thought born againers were bad. I have only met one other catholic as rabid as coldstream but he was a schizophrenic and had an excuse.
 
Tonington
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Who are you aiming this response, Dexter or Coldstream?

Coldstream. Dexter is very science literate.
 
Dexter Sinister
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

There is a reason why the West has been the crucible of all the worlds advanced sciences, research and technology for the past millenia. It stems from the great universities, all formed fundamentally as theological exponents within the Church, and from which the scientific empirical method developed.

Yes, there's a reason alright, but that's not it. It happened in spite of the church, not because of it. The church has resisted the findings of science at least since Galileo's day, and certain elements of it continue to fight a rearguard action against naturalistic explanations of reality. The fight was lost long ago, but a lot of people haven't figured that out yet, you among them, as your total misapprehension of science in general and evolution in particular shows clearly.
 
coldstream
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

wow I think you not only are an inquisitor, but are also living somewhere between 1500 and 1800. I have no idea wheere you've been living but there have been quite a few advances. The discovery that neutrinos have mass and that the expansion of the universe is accelerating are two biggies I have read about. Some guys even got the Nobel for work that added to work explaining why the universe exists. Then there is this stuff:

Major Physics Breakthrough In Understanding Supersolidity

You don't get out much, do you, Mr. Stream? Too busy with your nose in everyone else's bedrooms or the Bible to read or discover anything else maybe?

Take a look at the precepts of Superstrings, at the edge of modern Cosmology, the pinnacle of modern physics. It postulates things like multiple dimensions.. 8, 11.. you name it.

It makes little difference to them that human senses can only empirically ascertain 4, if you include time. The aim isn't to produce any useful technology, it is to develop the equation as something of such purity it requires no proof.. it exists simply as an abstract meditation... an idol.

I asked you to name one useful piece of technology, specifically Cosmology has produced since WW2. You won't be able to name one because there are none. The whole thing has become a money pit, with projects like CERN costing billions, to find evermore obsure nanoparticles. The only machines it develops are those designed to confirm their own increasingly insubstantial understanding of the universe.

The whole construct has lost any kind of cohesive framework. It exists in part to EXCLUDE those without advanced math and physics degrees from a position in the priesthood, on which all kinds of awards, titles, tenure, grants are bequeathed. The only thing they really have no use for its patents, because they don't make anything people can use.
Last edited by coldstream; Nov 7th, 2009 at 02:16 PM..
 
AnnaG
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

Take a look at the precepts of Superstrings, at the edge of modern Cosmology, the pinnacle of modern physics. It postulates things like multiple dimensions.. 8, 11.. you name it.

It makes little difference to them that human senses can only empirically assertain 4, if you include time. The aim isn't to produce any useful technology, it is to develop the equation as something of such purity it requires no proof.. it exists simply as an abstract meditation... an idol.

The last I heard string theory wasn't even a theory, but an hypothesis. So you are hinging your argument about factual things like advances upon conjecture? lmao

Here read this bit about the difference between laws, theories and hypotheses:


http://physics.suite101.com/article....thesis_vs__law



Quote:

I asked you to name one useful piece of technology, specifically Cosmology has produced since WW2. You won't be able to name one because there are none.

You said nothing about cosmology. Quit lying.
I named 4.
Quote:

The whole thing has become a money pit, with projects like CERN costing billions, to find evermore obsure nanoparticles. The only machines it develops are those designed to confirm their own increasingly insubstantial understanding of the universe.

Nonsense.

Quote:

The whole construct has lost any kind of cohesive framework. It exists in part to EXCLUDE those without advanced math and physics degrees from a position in the priesthood, on which all kinds of awards, titles, tenure, grants are bequeathed. The only thing they really have no use for its patents, because they don't make anything people can use.

Gibberish.
Last edited by AnnaG; Nov 7th, 2009 at 01:50 PM..
 
Tonington
#48
Coldstream, the only post that contains the word cosmology in this thread is your last one. You can't very well have asked Anna previously and specifically what technologies Cosmology has produced then can you? You move the goal posts like the best of them on this website.

How about you name one useful piece of technology created using theology and no science in the last 50 years.
 
winniethepooh
#49
A decrease in population has to help, more people - more pollution. Also large animals leave a large carbon footprint, so all those seriously green people have to do their part by cutting down the large pet population.. -
 
Dexter Sinister
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

I asked you to name one useful piece of technology, specifically Cosmology has produced since WW2.

No you didn't, as others have pointed out, but there is an answer: the Global Positioning System. You've issued that ignorant challenge before and been answered, you just weren't paying attention because then you'd have to change some of your thinking. Here's a more general introduction to more answers, and you can spread out with the links there and learn something useful about reality: Dealing with Creationism in Astronomy: Development Notes

It's a rather peculiar line of argument you've chosen. You criticize science from a position of almost total ignorance using terminology like dogma and priesthood as if they're bad things, yet somehow the church, which actually uses those terms itself, is immune to such criticism. You criticize science as if it were a church, but when the church does what you accuse (wrongly) science of doing, that's somehow okay. There's a very basic illogic in your philosophy. If you're going to fulfil your role as a Christian to make the world better, you'd better understand how it works first.
 
coldstream
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

The last I heard string theory wasn't even a theory, but an hypothesis. So you are hinging your argument about factual things like advances upon conjecture? lmao

Here read this bit about the difference between laws, theories and hypotheses:


Theory vs. Hypothesis vs. Law: Unraveling the Confusion of Important Terminology | Suite101.com



You said nothing about cosmology. Quit lying.
I named 4.
Nonsense.

Gibberish.

, that's quite a well developed argument, Anna. You might be doctoral material.
 
AnnaG
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

, that's quite a well developed argument, Anna. You might be doctoral material.

Nope. I have a bach in anthropology. Would you like to quit sidestepping and get back to the topic now?
 
coldstream
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

No you didn't, as others have pointed out, but there is an answer: the Global Positioning System. You've issued that ignorant challenge before and been answered, you just weren't paying attention because then you'd have to change some of your thinking. Here's a more general introduction to more answers, and you can spread out with the links there and learn something useful about reality: Dealing with Creationism in Astronomy: Development Notes

It's a rather peculiar line of argument you've chosen. You criticize science from a position of almost total ignorance using terminology like dogma and priesthood as if they're bad things, yet somehow the church, which actually uses those terms itself, is immune to such criticism. You criticize science as if it were a church, but when the church does what you accuse (wrongly) science of doing, that's somehow okay. There's a very basic illogic in your philosophy. If you're going to fulfil your role as a Christian to make the world better, you'd better understand how it works first.


The Global Positioning System is NOT a product of Cosmology. It is a developed out of communications and ranging instruments originally developed for military applications.

You miss my point entirely. It's something that is not new. Oswald Spengler developed a theory of the lifespan of civilizations where he noted appearance of a science of pure mysticism and credulity would replace that founded on empiricism and technology.

That is just what has happened in Cosmology. Your example shows that there is plenty of hard technological science still going on, but there has not been a scientific revolution in over 50 years.

We are simply harvesting the benefits of what will likely be the last crop of practical invention, in a declining society. I don't think that needs be inevitable, but it is where we are heading.

Absolutely nothing useful will be developed from Superstrings. But Superstrings has essentially sucked the funding well dry. If you're not in that, you are broke, and you are not getting tenure. That is the state of the world.
Last edited by coldstream; Nov 7th, 2009 at 02:41 PM..
 
Niflmir
#54
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

The Global Positioning System is NOT a product of Cosmology. It is a developed out of communications and ranging instruments originally developed for military applications.

General relativity: apparently a communications technology.

Go figure.

What does all this have to do with the carbon footprint of a child?
 
coldstream
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

General relativity: apparently a communications technology.

Go figure.

What does all this have to do with the carbon footprint of a child?

General and Specific relativity were developed by Einstein, and Quantum Mechanics were applied by Bohr and others in the early 20th Century. That's when they actually still condescended to hold their 'hypotheses' to experiment and proof.
 
Niflmir
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

General and Specific relativity were developed by Einstein, and Quantum Mechanics were applied by Bohr and others in the early 20th Century. That's when they actually still condescended to hold there 'hypotheses' to experiment and proof.

Whatever you say.

What does this have to do with the carbon footprint of a child?
 
coldstream
#57
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

Whatever you say.

What does this have to do with the carbon footprint of a child?

It's all about idols of the modern age i suppose. Global Warming, Superstrings, concoctions from a coven's kettle i suppose. But i get your point.
 
coldstream
#58
Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

Coldstream, the only post that contains the word cosmology in this thread is your last one. You can't very well have asked Anna previously and specifically what technologies Cosmology has produced then can you? You move the goal posts like the best of them on this website.

How about you name one useful piece of technology created using theology and no science in the last 50 years.

Exactly my point. Religions do not produce technology, they are founded in faith and grounded in the metaphysical and supernatural.

Once science takes on the mantle of a religion, though, it is just that, and is no more competent to produce a technology than a Church.
 
Niflmir
#59
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

Exactly my point. Religions do not produce technology, they are founded in faith and grounded in the metaphysical and supernatural.

Once science takes on the mantle of a religion, though, it is just that, and is no more competent to produce a technology than a Church.

How exactly has climate science taken on the mantle of religion? All their data is reproducible/public. If you want to question it, nobody is stopping you.
 
AnnaG
#60
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

The Global Positioning System is NOT a product of Cosmology. It is a developed out of communications and ranging instruments originally developed for military applications.

So, what. You said notrhing about cosmology to begin with. What you DID say was,
Quote:

Look at mess modern physics is in, which hasn't produced any useful technology since WW2.

Which is what Tonington, Dexter and I replied to. Then you move the goalposts by specifying cosmology AFTER we replied.

Quote:

You miss my point entirely. It's something that is not new. Oswald Spengler developed a theory of the lifespan of civilizations where he noted appearance of a science of pure mysticism and credulity would replace that founded on empiricism and technology.

You didn't state your point clearly. Mysticism has no place in science. It has a place in religions. Science is about descriptions of our universe based on evidence, not faith.

Quote:

That is just what has happened in Cosmology. Your example shows that there is plenty of hard technological science still going on, but there has not been a scientific revolution in over 50 years.

Balogna. The latest one I can think of is the one that Darwin wasn't quite accurate about the "tree of life".

Quote:

We are simply harvesting the benefits of what will likely be the last crop of practical invention, in a declining society. I don't think that needs be inevitable, but it is where we are heading.

Declining? Hardly. Evolving, yes.

Quote:

Absolutely nothing useful will be developed from Superstrings. But Superstrings has essentially sucked the funding well dry. If you're not in that, you are broke, and you are not getting tenure. That is the state of the world.

Unless you know string hypothesis to be fact along with its ramifications, there's no way you could say that it will produce anything useful. You are not claivoyant. lmao I saw a BC cartoon once. You remind me of one of the characters in it who was viewing another's invention of the wheel and commented, "nothing good will come of this". lmao