Is Canada ready for the coming electric vehicle revolution?


Bar Sinister
#631
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I think we want to be careful what we wish for, it will likely be detrimental in the long run. In 55 years of operating gas powered vehicles I've yet to encounter a problem with them. I always say "if it ain't broke don't f**k around with it".

We've got about 200 years of operating electric engines and I've yet to encounter a problem with them. And BTW an engines that spews poisons into the air is broken.

Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

I don't see them popping up in gas stations anytime soon. Most gas stations are affiliates of oil companies and it is a bit of a conflict of interest for oil companies to make electric vehicles any easier to own. Can an electric vehicle be fully charged in 15 minutes? Any longer, it is an inconvenience (I am being generous, I fill my Toyota in under 5).




Maybe eventually (50 or so years) but not in the near future. I also don't want to get into the tax break vs subsidy debate. It has been beaten to death. I think most people (aside from the rich few) look at the practicality of the car they are buying and right now this is not electric. Also in computing costs (fuel savings, etc.) in places like Ontario where electricity prices are through the roof, I wonder if that is factored into the savings equation?

I forgot to add this in my previous post, but another problem with electric vehicles (as anybody living in really code places knows) is that battery output really decreases when the temperature gets colder, as it is apt to do in Canada.

Now, I will ask you the same question I asked Flossy some time back (he answered), what type of car do you drive? Is it electric or gas powered?

You may be right, but I find the current pace of technological development amazing. 10 years ago the so-called smart phone didn't exist and electric cars were just an idea. It seems every day some new development pops out of the woodwork and I don't expect it to stop.

As for my car, right now I drive a 2007 Kia and have no plans to change it unless it stops running. It's cheap transport. However, if I was buying a new car for long term I would take a good look at electrics if they were available. The fact that I can't do that now doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Not with governments taking an active hand in establishing charging stations.

Now, I'm going to ask you a question. Can you fuel your car at home?

You might also want to take a look at this:
Here's how every major automaker plans to go electric

https://mashable.com/2017/10/03/elec.../#EwYlBMkraiqi

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Really? I know you are one of the stupidest people on Earth and on welfare so you could never by a shiny new Ford so I doubt you kn9w this but a Ford 3.5 twin turbo ecoboost engine from a pick up is more efficient than any electric vehicle and will walk all over any sports car (EV included) in the 1/4 mile all day long and you don't need to recharge for every race.

I can't wait for the 6 turbo version in the works. Dinky little 2.5L making 750HP+ bone stock and getting 70mpg.

I'm currently on the hunt for a Model A truck to stuff a 3.5 ego boost into. There are several thousand Model A roadster pick up truck for sale at any given time to choose from

Model As we're only built for 4 years. 1927 -1931 over 4.8 million built and there are still 1,000,000 on the road.

You have no idea how big classic cars are.

If you want to piss like a big dog,I'll bet you $100,000 there is a running model A within a mile of where you live. That's how sure I am.



Fossil fuel batteries made from coal (graphene are the next big step.

Graphene is going to advance technology so rapidly, all of our current silicon digital tech will be antiquated within 3 years.

And too pokey to work in harmony with graphene tech.

It is interesting that you know about graphene, but don't know about this:

ON THE CHARGE The world’s fastest electric cars that’ll beat most supercars away from the lights

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/4957...om-the-lights/


World’s fastest electric cars - The stunning crop of supercar crushing electric vehicles

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...worlds-fastest


It doesn't really matter though does it, as most people don't by cars to run drag races.
 
pgs
+1
#632
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

We've got about 200 years of operating electric engines and I've yet to encounter a problem with them. And BTW an engines that spews poisons into the air is broken.



You may be right, but I find the current pace of technological development amazing. 10 years ago the so-called smart phone didn't exist and electric cars were just an idea. It seems every day some new development pops out of the woodwork and I don't expect it to stop.

As for my car, right now I drive a 2007 Kia and have no plans to change it unless it stops running. It's cheap transport. However, if I was buying a new car for long term I would take a good look at electrics if they were available. The fact that I can't do that now doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Not with governments taking an active hand in establishing charging stations.

Now, I'm going to ask you a question. Can you fuel your car at home?

You might also want to take a look at this:
Here's how every major automaker plans to go electric

https://mashable.com/2017/10/03/elec.../#EwYlBMkraiqi



It is interesting that you know about graphene, but don't know about this:

ON THE CHARGE The world’s fastest electric cars that’ll beat most supercars away from the lights

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/4957...om-the-lights/


World’s fastest electric cars - The stunning crop of supercar crushing electric vehicles

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...worlds-fastest


It doesn't really matter though does it, as most people don't by cars to run drag races.

So if this is about engines spewing poison into the air , why not say so ? I was led to believe we need to change our ways to prevent the climate from doing what it always does . Change .
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
#633
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

As for my car, right now I drive a 2007 Kia and have no plans to change it unless it stops running. It's cheap transport. However, if I was buying a new car for long term I would take a good look at electrics if they were available. The fact that I can't do that now doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Not with governments taking an active hand in establishing charging stations.

Now, I'm going to ask you a question. Can you fuel your car at home?

Our car was totaled in November and I had to buy a new one. I looked briefly at electric but it will not work for me. Charging is an issue and using our car for long travels make the electric car impractical. But got fuel efficient car to save some on gas and minimize the output. Very happy with it. In 15-20 years when this car dies, I will again re-evaluate based upon current needs and costs and lifestyle at that time. Btw, what is life expectancy of these batteries? I know car batteries last 3-4 years usually.

To answer your question, no I cannot. I have to drive about 5 minutes to a gas station (technically I can get a gas can and fill it at the station and bring it home and fuel my car but that is not the spirit of your question). I also cannot charge an electric car at home as I live in an apartment. I would have to drive some unknown distance to reach a fueling station (if car was dead I would have to have car towed -- unlike gas can example above). I live in Toronto and I do not know the location of a single charging station in Canada's biggest city.

I am not sure about government charging stations. Seems like a tremendous waste of tax money. However, if they are having as much demand as you and others say, and you had some money to start a new business, a fleet of charging stations might be a good business opportunity. No government build the original gas stations. Power operators might also find this a business opportunity.
 
captain morgan
#634
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

I believe their time will come. Been watching hybrids for some years now and their milage/cost ratio just isn't there. Pure electric has the same problem and still have the range problem they had 100 years ago. If I was rich, lived in a city and never went more than a couple of miles I would seriously look at one.

EVs are a reasonable option for inner city stuff, but the same issues exist in terms of the infrastructure needing to be beefed-up to handle any tangible population of EVs, of course, the source of the additional power and battery tech.

-25 anywhere will cripple whatever range that car has and heaven forbid you use the heater and fan during those cold times, your range will plummet even further

Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

However, if they are having as much demand as you and others say, and you had some money to start a new business, a fleet of charging stations might be a good business opportunity. No government build the original gas stations. Power operators might also find this a business opportunity.

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that the proponents of EVs will invoke some argument about their rights in terms of charging stations.

PS - 15 minute charge time is a dream, especially as we all have experienced the reality that the latest tech in rechargeable batteries don't respond well to frequent partial charging
 
pgs
#635
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

EVs are a reasonable option for inner city stuff, but the same issues exist in terms of the infrastructure needing to be beefed-up to handle any tangible population of EVs, of course, the source of the additional power and battery tech.

-25 anywhere will cripple whatever range that car has and heaven forbid you use the heater and fan during those cold times, your range will plummet even further



I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that the proponents of EVs will invoke some argument about their rights in terms of charging stations.

PS - 15 minute charge time is a dream, especially as we all have experienced the reality that the latest tech in rechargeable batteries don't respond well to frequent partial charging

Yes and even electric forklifts require a nights charging to run the next day .
 
captain morgan
#636
Absolutely... That is a function of the current battery tech.

Add in the infrastructure needs and the cost to roll-out the electric revolution gets up into the hundreds of billions and greater.
 
pgs
#637
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Absolutely... That is a function of the current battery tech.

Add in the infrastructure needs and the cost to roll-out the electric revolution gets up into the hundreds of billions and greater.

Good thing we are getting Site C . We need to power all those charging stations . Amazingly the same greenweavers against the dam are pushing the electric vehicle revolution.
 
captain morgan
#638
I will say that Bennett did BC a favor in terms of building out the grid when he did. It will reap all kinds of bennies in the future
 
pgs
#639
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

I will say that Bennett did BC a favor in terms of building out the grid when he did. It will reap all kinds of bennies in the future

Yes the source of our competitive wealth , cheap clean green electricity.
 
JLM
#640
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

We've got about 200 years of operating electric engines and I've yet to encounter a problem with them. And BTW an engines that spews poisons into the air is broken.


They've come a long way in the past 30 years in reducing poisonous emissions, to the point where they aren't a big problem anymore!
 
spilledthebeer
+3
#641
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

We've got about 200 years of operating electric engines and I've yet to encounter a problem with them. And BTW an engines that spews poisons into the air is broken.



You may be right, but I find the current pace of technological development amazing. 10 years ago the so-called smart phone didn't exist and electric cars were just an idea. It seems every day some new development pops out of the woodwork and I don't expect it to stop.

As for my car, right now I drive a 2007 Kia and have no plans to change it unless it stops running. It's cheap transport. However, if I was buying a new car for long term I would take a good look at electrics if they were available. The fact that I can't do that now doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Not with governments taking an active hand in establishing charging stations.

Now, I'm going to ask you a question. Can you fuel your car at home?

You might also want to take a look at this:
Here's how every major automaker plans to go electric

https://mashable.com/2017/10/03/elec.../#EwYlBMkraiqi



It is interesting that you know about graphene, but don't know about this:

ON THE CHARGE The world’s fastest electric cars that’ll beat most supercars away from the lights

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/4957...om-the-lights/


World’s fastest electric cars - The stunning crop of supercar crushing electric vehicles

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...worlds-fastest


It doesn't really matter though does it, as most people don't by cars to run drag races.

TRUE DAT!!!! Who cares how fast a car goes from 0-60 when it spends 99 percent of its life shuffling along nose to tail in a jam with hundreds of other cars! And who needs the speeding tickets and demerit points and insurance surcharges as well?

Reliability, fuel efficiency, purchase price, modest repair cost- and that other thing NO electric car currently has- good towing and cargo capacity! Strap a roof rack or a trailer onto an electric car and watch the range PLUMMET! Better yet- strap on some gear and send it out in freezing weather- and watch it getting TOWED HOME to the re-charger because the range dropped by fifty percent thanks first, to the over 25 percent drop in range simply due to cold, then add in MORE RANGE LOST due to running a heater, a defroster, and headlights in snowing conditions- then subtract EVEN MORE RANGE due to the cargo its hauling- that it was NOT designed to do!
 
captain morgan
+1
#642
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

Yes the source of our competitive wealth , cheap clean green electricity.

One could make the argument that hydro is not as clean as it has been advertised
 
spilledthebeer
#643
Quote: Originally Posted by spilledthebeer View Post

TRUE DAT!!!! Who cares how fast a car goes from 0-60 when it spends 99 percent of its life shuffling along nose to tail in a jam with hundreds of other cars! And who needs the speeding tickets and demerit points and insurance surcharges as well?

Reliability, fuel efficiency, purchase price, modest repair cost- and that other thing NO electric car currently has- good towing and cargo capacity! Strap a roof rack or a trailer onto an electric car and watch the range PLUMMET! Better yet- strap on some gear and send it out in freezing weather- and watch it getting TOWED HOME to the re-charger because the range dropped by fifty percent thanks first, to the over 25 percent drop in range simply due to cold, then add in MORE RANGE LOST due to running a heater, a defroster, and headlights in snowing conditions- then subtract EVEN MORE RANGE due to the cargo its hauling- that it was NOT designed to do!

OH- and another LIE-beral deal- Ontari-owe currently has one of the LEAST RELIABLE electrical distribution systems in North America! It NEEDS to be rebuilt- and LIE-beral will tell us that electric cars NEED the improvements to "save the environment" FOR LIE-BERALS!!! It will be a great excuse- new jobs- for LIE-beral union Hogs! Raises in pay for everybody- who is a LIE-beral pal!

And WHO CARES that battery technology is advancing so fast that any charging setup that LIE-berals waste billions on today may be OBSOLETE before it is fully installed!

And really- how BAD could LIE-berals screw it all up? Consider that the E-health scandal is NOT DONE! Its just off the radar thanks to LIE-beral friendly media speaking no evil of LIE-berals! LIE-berals have solved the over cost and over budget greed of E-health Hogs by the simple expedient of NOT SETTING A BUDGET! Yes- LIE-berals now just ship BLANK CHEQUES to those Hogs- who ARE still working on that crap!

And how about the Presto transit card readers? At the time the system was chosen- we were warned that Presto was the most costly, least efficient and least used of several systems available- and now here we are some years later- and TTC has just SUSPENDED INSTALLATION of Presto card readers due to reliability issues!

And maybe we should talk about and utter a few curses over the Phoenix pay system that several govts have been screwing with? Reality is it ought to be scrapped and the old system restored- but civil service union Hogs do not wish to admit they have messed up so BADLY- and wasted several billion dollars- so we are now paying over twice as much as was originally budgeted and the damned thing STILL DOES NOT WORK PROPERLY!

And how about the smart meters? Those wonderful devices that were supposed to save us money? Did you get YOUR BENEFIT from those crap meters? I did not and neither did my neighbours! On the plus side- our area did not get the type of meters that catch fire and burn down your house! Be grateful for SMALL MERCIES?

And what of the battery powered buses that TTC bought a few years back? You know the ones I mean- the ones with HALF the range expected and with various maintenance issues as well? Do you want the same clowns producing your cars?

And how will we feel if Bombardier is chosen to produce the chargers? And how will we feel if they get another huge chunk of LIE-beral cash in exchange for those idle promises they issue so glibly? And then get years behind in producing the damned things? The way Bombardier is working on TTC street cars and LRT prototype rail cars- the builders all apparently all intend to RETIRE due to old age after the product is built......SOME DAY?

Or maybe we should talk about the computer scandal that rocked Toronto Silly |Hall a decade back? Its just MORE PROOF that LIE-berals and their civil service union Hog allies could not run a chip truck at a profit- not even if you gave them the potatoes for FREE!

And you idiot LIE-berals want to send LIE-beral Hogs into a meeting room with Elon Musk and have the hogs come back out later still wearing their shirts? Musk is a great salesman and a wild dreamer and a slick talker- but THAT IS ALL HE IS! If LIE-berals does enter into any deal with the likes of Musk- then we will ALL lose our shirts! And Musk will laugh all the way to the bank!
 
Bar Sinister
#644
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

So if this is about engines spewing poison into the air , why not say so ? I was led to believe we need to change our ways to prevent the climate from doing what it always does . Change .

That and about change. Something many members of CC seem to have a problem with.

Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post


To answer your question, no I cannot. I have to drive about 5 minutes to a gas station (technically I can get a gas can and fill it at the station and bring it home and fuel my car but that is not the spirit of your question). I also cannot charge an electric car at home as I live in an apartment. I would have to drive some unknown distance to reach a fueling station (if car was dead I would have to have car towed -- unlike gas can example above). I live in Toronto and I do not know the location of a single charging station in Canada's biggest city.

No idea where charging stations are? Well, I can help with that.

https://www.plugshare.com/

CAA Electric Vehicle Charging Station Locator

BTW I suspect adding charging facilities to apartments will become the norm when there are enough electric cars.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

They've come a long way in the past 30 years in reducing poisonous emissions, to the point where they aren't a big problem anymore!


Yeah, right.
Shanghai Warns People to Stay Indoors on ‘Severe’ Air Pollution



 
pgs
+1
#645
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

That and about change. Something many members of CC seem to have a problem with.



No idea where charging stations are? Well, I can help with that.

https://www.plugshare.com/

CAA Electric Vehicle Charging Station Locator

BTW I suspect adding charging facilities to apartments will become the norm when there are enough electric cars.




Yeah, right.
Shanghai Warns People to Stay Indoors on ‘Severe’ Air Pollution



Great you use China with their coal powered power plants as an argument against cars in North America . Sadly though you forget that our skies looked the same prior to modern engine technology .
 
spilledthebeer
+1
#646
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

Great you use China with their coal powered power plants as an argument against cars in North America . Sadly though you forget that our skies looked the same prior to modern engine technology .

Face it- Bar Sinister is merely an agent provocateur seeking to confuse Cdns- and anybody else he can reach with his anti western propaganda! He should not be taken seriously as any comment he makes is either badly muddled- from lack of understanding of western values, virtues and history or else he is making suggestions that will harm us!

For instance- the ONLY WAY a relatively large electric car market can be developed is by immense govt intervention in every aspect of the economy- and we all know how well that turned out for Soviet govts everywhere! Bankruptcy and dictatorship are the tools of economic meddlers!

East Germany managed to sell a pile of those Trabant cars using exactly the same economic interventionist tactics that Our idiot Boy and his moronic LIE-beral minions are using! And why not? Our idiot Boy IS a hard core socialist- just like his vile father Pierre- it is why the entire Trudope clan can be such good pals with a Soviet monster like Castro!

LIE-berals speak so often of justice and fir play and saving the environment- and they LIE endlessly about ways and means! They IGNORE all the easy solutions and focus only on the convoluted, ineffective and entirely selfish and self serving crap they are pushing on uis with huge cost and little effect!

One has only to look at their mouldy green energy mess- they have set up hugely costly deals with their friends to produce wind and solar power- with purchase of the mouldy green taking precedence over all other power generation methods- and this means that vast quantities of water are flushed over hydro electric dams WITH OUT MAKING A SINGLE SPARK OF ELECTRICITY!

Yes- the mouldy green takes precedence in purchasing- and it takes 3 days to run a nuclear power station from stop to full power- and natural gas generators respond much faster but they are not instantly on or off either- it is hydro dams that can be shut down quickest and cheapest so water is routinely DUMPED without generating anything so there will be room for the costly mouldy green!

And of course water generation is the cheapest and leane3st form of generation available! So in the name of saving the environment, LIE-berals have scaled back on the cheapest form of electric generation!

And yes- saving the environment would be nice- and LIE-berals are screwing that too! Airplanes are the dirtiest way to move people or goods- bar none! Cdn Geographic magazine- among others- reported on conclusions from climate scientists- that in the 9 months after the 9/11 World Trade terror attack- during which time 25 percent of the worlds airplanes were grounded- there WAS A MEASURABLE IMPROVEMENT IN AIR QUALITY! Yes- right across the planet!

Want to save the environment? Fine- ITS EASY! Just cut back on the gravy supplied to civil service union Hogs! Less gravy for Hogs means less flight time and cleaner air! Less gravy for Hogs means they buy smaller cars and drive less often. Less gravy means they do not play with their gas guzzling toys so often either!

WE CAN save the environment- AND save our grossly indebted economy b6y the simple expedient of cutting back on Hog gravy!

But if that was done then who would vote for LIE-berals? Even Bar Sinister might hesitate to support LIE-berals if the flow of gravy was halted!
 
Bar Sinister
#647
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

Great you use China with their coal powered power plants as an argument against cars in North America . Sadly though you forget that our skies looked the same prior to modern engine technology .


Los Angeles

https://inhabitat.com/the-history-of...ngeles-smog-1/
 
pgs
+1
#648
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Los Angeles

https://inhabitat.com/the-history-of...ngeles-smog-1/

Quite clean for a place with 5 million cars , you should have seen it in the seventies .
 
Walter
+1
#649
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

Quite clean for a place with 5 million cars , you should have seen it in the seventies .

You couldn't see it in the 70's.
 
Danbones
#650
WE wanted to hide all the polar bears there for the global warming count scam, but they didn't want them. They were afraid the bears wouldn't be able to see the white people in the smog, and they would only eat everyone else.

Looks like it would have worked out fine over time, the smog would lighten up, the bears would be established, and they would still be able to see everyone they might want to eat...and then the arctic would REALLY have a reduced bear count.
Last edited by Danbones; Apr 3rd, 2018 at 07:46 AM..
 
petros
+3
#651
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Los Angeles

https://inhabitat.com/the-history-of...ngeles-smog-1/


Oil rigs in Los Angeles





 
EagleSmack
+1
#652
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Oil rigs in Los Angeles





Oh but Jerry Brown's California is leading the way!

No wonder why he was booed at the last Global Warming junket.
 
petros
+3
#653
Leading the way in developing California tar sands.

Dirtier than tar sands: California's crude oil secret
 
EagleSmack
+1
#654
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Leading the way in developing California tar sands.

Dirtier than tar sands: California's crude oil secret

California has a lot of these secrets don't they? It seems that the fossil fuel industry is the only thing propping up this socialist utopia.
 
petros
+1
#655
That and water from the Colorado.
 
spilledthebeer
#656
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

That and water from the Colorado.

At every turn- LIE-berals such as Bar Sinister IGNORE any and all easy solutions to global warming! But then LIE-berals are strangers to common sense and logic!

Here is a report detailing the reality that electric cars will not be either safer nor more environmentally friendly than gas powered cars! The ugly reality is that LIE-berals are deliberately ignoring any and all simple solutions to global warming! LIE-beral policy is so muddled that although they know they could reduce gridlock and air pollution in Toronto by building more subways- their grossly selfish priorities are focused on spending billions to BUY votes from illegals so LIE-berals can cling to power at any price!

Yeah- LIE-berals see nothing wrong with borrowing billions to pay for future terrorists and welfare “clients” to settle in Canada and yet there is not a penny for new transit to save the environment!

Here is the report that LIE-berals do not want you to read:

COVER-UP Charged in NHTSA investigation of Tesla Motors

Batteries used in Tesla Motors cars are rather unusual: they are called lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries. Their mode of action is different from classical batteries of petrol or diesel engines. Components of Lithium-ion batteries can present a chemical hazard. In a few words: how does a Li-ion battery work? Elon Musk and his partners at Goldman Sachs and the Silicon Valley billionaires dig up the lithium ion from Afghanistan.

A Lithium-ion battery works with the following reaction: a chemically reversible lithium ion exchange between two electrodes. A number of toxic chemicals go into making the battery. When the battery gets hot or wet, it releases even more toxic chemicals.

The positive electrode is usually made of a lithiated transition metal oxide (cobalt dioxide, manganese dioxide…); the negative electrode is usually made of graphite.[1] This reaction needs both electrodes to be immersed into a liquid electrolyte. Most of the time, the electrolyte is a solution of lithium hexafluorophosphate salts into a mixture of ethylene carbonate and propylene carbonate or tetrahydrofurane.

Leaking Li-ion battery = production of hydrofluoric acid

As the electrolyte is a liquid, it can leak from the inside of the battery and come into contact with air moisture or water.

Two chemical reactions can provoke the production of hydrofluoric acid:

Hydrolysis of PF6- ions of the electrolyte in the presence of water
Combustion of those PF6- ions.

Hydrolysis of PF6- ions occurs only in the presence of water in a medium which is not too acidic or basic (pH between 1 and 12) However, the kinetics of this hydrolysis are not favorable. The reaction is slow and the quantities of released hydrofluoric acid will not be very important.[2] When in contact with skin or eyes, hydrofluoric acid can provoke severe chemical injuries and is toxic.

Lithium-ion batteries and combustion: a real hazard

The Lithium-ion battery also presents a risk of degradation by a violent and dangerous combustion reaction in case of misuse. This combustion can occur spontaneously as soon as the batteries intern temperature reaches 65 °C (149 °F) and is very likely to occur above 75 °C (167 °F).[3]

In case of burning of the battery, hydrofluoric acid is produced and released by thermal decomposition of the PF6- ions of the electrolyte contained inside the battery.

A French INERIS report on electric cars batteries describes this risk.[4] Moreover, the INERIS studies show that: “From a metrological point of view, measuring fluoride ions produced during a fire remains a delicate operation”[5]

Concentration of released hydrofluoric acid is variable and depends on the quantity of electrolyte burnt in the combustion process and the combustion temperature.

Other toxic gases are also produced and released during the electrolyte combustion (carbon oxides from combustion of ethylene and propylene carbonates).

To prevent leaking or burning of the battery, very cautious manipulation of Li-ion batteries is recommended
What to do in case of Leaking Li-ion battery?

When a leak is observed from a Li-ion battery, the leaking liquid may contain hydrofluoric acid. Absorption of the liquid residue with an adapted absorbent is necessary. The use of a neutralizing absorbent for acidic chemicals such as neutralizing absorbent ACICAPTAL® or polyvalent neutralizing absorbent TRIVOREX® is recommended. Personal protective equipment is also recommended.

In the event of a cutaneous or ocular exposure to a liquid from a Li-ion Battery, an optimized decontamination is necessary. Exposure to hydrofluoric acid requires adapted decontamination and medical advice.

Hexafluorine® solution is an emergency washing solution specially designed to answer to hydrofluoric hazard: discover Hexafluorine® solution
What to do in case of combustion of a Li-ion battery?

Li-ion batteries from electric or hybrid cars are usually isolated and protected so that they do not release hydrofluoric vapors in case of combustion.

During a car accident, if the battery ignites, contact with released vapors should be avoided as much as possible. Tesla Motors drivers have been killed and burned into unrecognizable lumps of melted plastic and alloy.

In the event of a cutaneous or ocular exposure to a liquid from a Li-ion Battery, an optimized decontamination is necessary. Exposure to hydrofluoric acid requires adapted decontamination and medical advice.

Hexafluorine® solution is an emergency washing solution specially designed to respond to hydrofluoric hazard: discover Hexafluorine® solution
 
Twin_Moose
+2
#657
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Leading the way in developing California tar sands.

Dirtier than tar sands: California's crude oil secret

I wonder if the survey was conveyed as stopping the oil, or was it save our water due to drought to get 56% majority support for measure Z
 
Bar Sinister
#658
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

Quite clean for a place with 5 million cars , you should have seen it in the seventies .

Oh, so internal combustion engines do pollute!
 
pgs
#659
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Oh, so internal combustion engines do pollute!

Have I ever suggested otherwise .I thought we were talking atmospheric climate change .?
 
Hoid
-1
#660
Quote: Originally Posted by Walter View Post

You couldn't see it in the 70's.

It has been in the forefront of pollution control