Gun Control is Completely Useless.


Niflmir
Free Thinker
#661
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

lol Good point.

I think the issue in Canada is more of a disagreement in why the Glibs foisted this registry on us rather than focusing on issues like gang violence and why the occasional shooting spree by some whacked out Canuck in Montreal or some other city.

All things considered, I think city people are more likely to be violent than the rural types.

The first step in reducing gang violence in Canada is to go to the US and say: "Legalize drugs, and stop selling so many firearms." It will never happen.

The first problem is that the US is willing to spend more money than us fighting drug selling organizations. Because of this, it makes sense for many drug organizations to produce in Canada and ship to the US: one can think of this as exportation of crime, from the US to Canada. We cannot possibly spend the same amount of money, even with an equivalent GDP, our population is lower.

Next, the majority of illegal firearms orginate from the US due to our lax border controls. As opposed to tightening the border (I think it is prohibitively tight) we should just convince them to have better gun control. Seriously, a handgun is designed to kill humans, not animals. There should be some more regulations on something like that.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#662
What no one seems to get is that I can own cars, trucks, airplanes, helicopters, jet fighters, submarines, (though useless unless in water, which we cannot own), I do not need a license for them. They do not need to be registered provided they not leave my property, the only thing I have to be licensed to own and have registered are firearms.
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
#663
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

What no one seems to get is that I can own cars, trucks, airplanes, helicopters, jet fighters, submarines, (though useless unless in water, which we cannot own), I do not need a license for them. They do not need to be registered provided they not leave my property, the only thing I have to be licensed to own and have registered are firearms.

Vehicles always have registered owners. This is even more true with helicopters, airplanes and especially war machines such as fighter jets and submarines.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#664
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

the majority of illegal firearms orginate from the US due to our lax border controls. As opposed to tightening the border (I think it is prohibitively tight) we should just convince them to have better gun control. Seriously, a handgun is designed to kill humans, not animals. There should be some more regulations on something like that.

Since you put you locale as Berlin I would assume that you have lax border controls. The vast majority of illegal firearms would then come from Russia. The Kalashnikov is the most prolific of all illicit arms worldwide because so many of them were, and are still made. All firearms were made to kill humans, they were then adapted to kill animals, something which is harder to do. In actual fact, handguns are the least powerful and least effective at doing either.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#665
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

Vehicles always have registered owners. This is even more true with helicopters, airplanes and especially war machines such as fighter jets and submarines.

It only matters if you wish to use it or sell it, you aren't liable for time in a federal correctional institution if it isn't registered.
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
#666
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

Since you put you locale as Berlin I would assume that you have lax border controls. The vast majority of illegal firearms would then come from Russia. The Kalashnikov is the most prolific of all illicit arms worldwide because so many of them were, and are still made. All firearms were made to kill humans, they were then adapted to kill animals, something which is harder to do. In actual fact, handguns are the least powerful and least effective at doing either.

Don't be lazy. My nationality is Canadian and this is easily identified by a small Canadian flag at the top of every one of my posts, or by reading my profile.

By design a rifle is built to kill animals and a handgun is built to kill humans, the fact that the very first gun might have been designed to kill a human is irrelevant to either fact. It is far easier to kill a person with a handgun than a rifle, because someone will call the police as you walk down the street with a rifle, but nobody will notice a handgun. Again, the power is irrelevant.

Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

It only matters if you wish to use it or sell it, you aren't liable for time in a federal correctional institution if it isn't registered.

In fact:

Quote:

Transfer of vehicle

43 (1) The owner of a motor vehicle for which a certificate of registration is required hereunder shall not sell or transfer his interest in or to the vehicle unless he has obtained a certificate of registration thereto nor unless having procured a certificate of registration he in every respect complies with the requirements of this Section and any person who violates this Section shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) Whenever a certificate of registration has been issued in respect of a motor vehicle the owner who sells or transfers his interest in or to the motor vehicle shall execute an assignment of his interest in or to the motor vehicle in the form provided on the reverse side of the certificate of registration for the vehicle and the owner shall deliver the certificate of registration to the purchaser or transferee at the time of delivering the vehicle.
(3) The transferee except as provided in subsection (4) shall thereupon present the certificate endorsed and assigned as aforesaid to the Department and make application for and obtain a new certificate of registration for the vehicle.

Vehicles must always be registered. Always.
 
AnnaG
#667
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

The first step in reducing gang violence in Canada is to go to the US and say: "Legalize drugs, and stop selling so many firearms." It will never happen.

The first problem is that the US is willing to spend more money than us fighting drug selling organizations. Because of this, it makes sense for many drug organizations to produce in Canada and ship to the US: one can think of this as exportation of crime, from the US to Canada. We cannot possibly spend the same amount of money, even with an equivalent GDP, our population is lower.

Yeah, it couldn't possibly be due to the large unpatrolled gaps in the border. lol

Quote:

Next, the majority of illegal firearms orginate from the US due to our lax border controls. As opposed to tightening the border (I think it is prohibitively tight) we should just convince them to have better gun control. Seriously, a handgun is designed to kill humans, not animals. There should be some more regulations on something like that.

A silhouette gun (among others) is designed for shooting targets. A starter pistol is designed for starting races. A Very pistol is designed for shooting signal flares. Try killing a human with a .22 target pistol.


 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
#668
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

Yeah, it couldn't possibly be due to the large unpatrolled gaps in the border. lol

A silhouette gun (among others) is designed for shooting targets. A starter pistol is designed for starting races. A Very pistol is designed for shooting signal flares. Try killing a human with a .22 target pistol.

Yes, I agree. Try killing a person with a set of nunchaku; at least you can still own a flare gun in Canada. Not every aspect of weapon control will make sense, as with any given set of legislation. (I assume that these pistols you are talking about are considered "restricted firearms").

There are other similar things which are restricted because of their "dangerous" uses. Many household cleaning products are forbidden in Canada because of the ease with which someone can make a bomb out of them.
 
AnnaG
#669
Here's a handgun designed specifically for hunting animals:
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
#670
Oh right, the border. Well in principle the border is not a problem. There is no "border controls" between Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, for instance, and this doesn't cause any problems. The problem is the differences in laws across borders, not that the borders are controlled incorrectly.

From the way I look at it.
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
#671
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

Here's a handgun designed specifically for hunting animals:

No, I would say that is a handgun modified to make accuracy slightly better. For a fixed caliber, a rifle will always have superior accuracy and so anyone who wants the best equipment for the situation will not invest in a short barrelled gun.
 
AnnaG
#672
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

No, I would say that is a handgun modified to make accuracy slightly better. For a fixed caliber, a rifle will always have superior accuracy and so anyone who wants the best equipment for the situation will not invest in a short barrelled gun.

Then no-one would go bow-hunting. It's a challenge. Some hunters simply like challenges. And you are wrong, that handgun is custom built specifically for shooting game. Google Image Result for http://www.hofmeistercustomshop.com/images/custom_singleshot_wscopemnt.jpg
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#673
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

Don't be lazy. My nationality is Canadian and this is easily identified by a small Canadian flag at the top of every one of my posts, or by reading my profile.

Well, la tee da, I was going by your locale, my bad

Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

Don't be lazy. My nationality is Canadian and this is easily identified by a small Canadian flag at the top of every one of my posts, or by reading my profile.

By design a rifle is built to kill animals and a handgun is built to kill humans,

Boy, are you wrong, by a long shot. Rifles were designed to kill humans at a distance beyond what a bow and arrow would do, pistols were designed for close combat. Look at what the folks were using back in the 1600's, and what they were using them for, you need a couple of history classes.



Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

It is far easier to kill a person with a handgun than a rifle, because someone will call the police as you walk down the street with a rifle, but nobody will notice a handgun. Again, the power is irrelevant.

And you know this as a fact? You have absolutely no experience with firearms, do you? You have no idea of the power a rifle has and the trauma it can deliver. Why then do you think they issue C-7's in .223 to our military rather solely 9mm pistols? My neighbour has been shot 6 times with a 9 mm on two seperate occasions and still made it to his court appearances, (he's been since locked up, again). I can certainly post some autopsy photos showing the difference in trauma caused by rifle and pistol wounds that the mods would edit out.

And just to add salt to the wound, no one called police when Marc Lapine walked into L'ecole Polytechnique with a rifle.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#674
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

Yeah, it couldn't possibly be due to the large unpatrolled gaps in the border. lol

A silhouette gun (among others) is designed for shooting targets. A starter pistol is designed for starting races. A Very pistol is designed for shooting signal flares. Try killing a human with a .22 target pistol.



top one looks like a Thomson Contender. Nice pistol, very accurate, I shot one in .257 Roberts, kicked like a buck but out shot a 30.30 rifle in accuracy at 100 yards, at least during that particular shoot.
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
#675
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

Well, la tee da, I was going by your locale, my bad



Boy, are you wrong, by a long shot. Rifles were designed to kill humans at a distance beyond what a bow and arrow would do, pistols were designed for close combat. Look at what the folks were using back in the 1600's, and what they were using them for, you need a couple of history classes.





And you know this as a fact? You have absolutely no experience with firearms, do you? You have no idea of the power a rifle has and the trauma it can deliver. Why then do you think they issue C-7's in .223 to our military rather solely 9mm pistols? My neighbour has been shot 6 times with a 9 mm on two seperate occasions and still made it to his court appearances, (he's been since locked up, again). I can certainly post some autopsy photos showing the difference in trauma caused by rifle and pistol wounds that the mods would edit out.

And just to add salt to the wound, no one called police when Marc Lapine walked into L'ecole Polytechnique with a rifle.

You really are getting the point completely backwards. But at least you gave up on your erroneous assumption that you could own a vehicle without registering it. My point is this: the sole design of a hangun is an easily concealable and portable weapon. That is why they are made; a rifle is always more accurate, so why else would you shorten the barrel? The fact that rifles are still superior for accurately killing people at a distance is not the point. The point is that handguns are easily concealable: there design goal is to make it easy to get to close range so that accuracy is not an issue.

This is why their use is restricted.

You aren't listening to me at all, are you? It was exactly my point that rifles are more powerful and also more accurate. As for the salt on the wound, don't make me lecture you in the basics of statistics, Mr. Anecdotal-Evidence.

Seriously. You and I, we cannot have any dialog unless you are willing to think about what I am saying: some weapons are more regulated in Canada simply because of their design. Why would you ever want to be able to walk around with a handgun unless you wanted to shoot a person? If it were for sport, you could leave it at a range.

Simply put, not all weapons are treated equally, and you do not seem to understand why most people think it should be more difficult to acquire a machine gun than to acquire a pellet gun.
 
AnnaG
#676
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

top one looks like a Thomson Contender. Nice pistol, very accurate, I shot one in .257 Roberts, kicked like a buck but out shot a 30.30 rifle in accuracy at 100 yards, at least during that particular shoot.

Yup. That's it alright.
As I mentioned earlier, it'd be ludicrous to try killing a human with a single-shot .22. There are Glocks, Hi-Powers, SIGs, and whatnot around. Or saw off a part of the buttstock and the barrel of a 12 gauge. Or even run over the critter when he crosses a street.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#677
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

You really are getting the point completely backwards. But at least you gave up on your erroneous assumption that you could own a vehicle without registering it.

First of all, I didn't give up on it, I just stopped belabouring it, it is not erroneous, I owned vehicles, air, and watercraft without them being registered, you just can't do anything with them until they are, they don't throw you in jail because they aren't.


Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

The point is that handguns are easily concealable: there design goal is to make it easy to get to close range so that accuracy is not an issue.

This is where you have it a bit backward, a pistol is designed to get you out of a bad spot, not to get yourself into one. A pistol is designed as a reactive weapon, if you are looking for action, you take some friends, and a tank.

Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

Seriously. You and I, we cannot have any dialog unless you are willing to think about what I am saying: some weapons are more regulated in Canada simply because of their design. Why would you ever want to be able to walk around with a handgun unless you wanted to shoot a person?

I don't, but a criminal doesn't really care, his main concern is getting what he wants and not getting caught. I don't want to shoot him, but if it is a challenge between me and him, I at least want to level the playing field.

Remember, criminals don't play by the rules, they'll kill you, your children, spouse, or anyone else they want, that's a chance I'm not willing to take. And believe it or not, armed defense is most often met with the assailant fleeing with no shots fired, provided the defender knows how to handle themselves, they also have to be ready to make that deadly decision, been there, done that.
 
petros
#678
So. How many commentators in this thread have fired their weapon yet this hunting season?

What did you bag?
 
AnnaG
#679
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

So. How many commentators in this thread have fired their weapon yet this hunting season?

What did you bag?

I got a couple grouse with the .22. We still have moose and elk left over from last year. One of us might bag a deer this year. (That's a matter of a few minutes walk up the hill and waiting till one comes by). Les came close to nailing a skink but the critter scooted before he could grab something to shoot with.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#680
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

As I mentioned earlier, it'd be ludicrous to try killing a human with a single-shot .22.

A single shot maybe, but that shouldn't make you disrespect the .22. Remember that the Mossad armed their operatives with Barettas in .22LR to dispach certain subjects involved in the Munich massacre, and they were quite effective.
 
VanIsle
#681
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

Gun control is not the same as gun prohibition. Do you think the government is trying to take away your car because you need to get a license to drive?

Nice knee jerk reaction though.

Yes I do. $75.00 at a time every 5 years. The cost of D.L.'s and the cost of the Gun registry - cash grabs no matter how you slice it. Useless expenses to everyone but any government.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#682
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

So. How many commentators in this thread have fired their weapon yet this hunting season?

What did you bag?

Season ain't open yet, but fired my .45 a few times, bagged a few paper targets.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#683
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

A single shot maybe, but that shouldn't make you disrespect the .22. Remember that the Mossad armed their operatives with Barettas in .22LR to dispach certain subjects involved in the Munich massacre, and they were quite effective.

Actually, I believe they were Beretta Minx pistols, in .22 Short !!!!!!!!!!!
 
Nuggler
#684
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

You obviously just don't get it. People dead on the street are rarely put there by law abiding gun owners, and if they are it is a result of self defense. No, the dead people on the streets are put there by thugs with guns, knives, fists, or whatever weapon happens to be handy. More often they are put there as a result of being denied the means to defend themselves by meddling do-gooders; you cannot legally carry any non lethal thing that can be deemed a weapon without risk of being charged with a criminal offense, this includes a knife, screwdriver, hammer, bear spray, hockey stick, baseball bat, etc., unless you appear to be using for a lawful purpose, (the best potential legal weapon is a large MagLite).

Newsflash, criminals don't care about laws. They are the ones who get away with it. Now tell me, where on earth can anyone get the idea that disarming law abiding citizens will actually make the streets safer?

Jeebuz; Liberaldork keeps trolling and people keep biting. Too funny.

He's probably got a handgun for every day of the week.

 
Liberalman
Free Thinker
#685
Gun registry is a key component to reducing the crime rate and according to the police statistics gun registry has helped significantly.

Only thugs want to get rid of the gun registry and thugs are out there typing up all kinds of misinformation just to get it cancelled and unfortunately the Conservatives swallowed it hook line and sinker.
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
#686
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

First of all, I didn't give up on it, I just stopped belabouring it, it is not erroneous, I owned vehicles, air, and watercraft without them being registered, you just can't do anything with them until they are, they don't throw you in jail because they aren't.

This is where you have it a bit backward, a pistol is designed to get you out of a bad spot, not to get yourself into one. A pistol is designed as a reactive weapon, if you are looking for action, you take some friends, and a tank.

I don't, but a criminal doesn't really care, his main concern is getting what he wants and not getting caught. I don't want to shoot him, but if it is a challenge between me and him, I at least want to level the playing field.

Remember, criminals don't play by the rules, they'll kill you, your children, spouse, or anyone else they want, that's a chance I'm not willing to take. And believe it or not, armed defense is most often met with the assailant fleeing with no shots fired, provided the defender knows how to handle themselves, they also have to be ready to make that deadly decision, been there, done that.

Either the ownership papers were transfered and said transfer was registered, or you owned them illegally. The fact that you may have broken the law and got away with it is in no way proof that the law does not exist. The legislation I posted is quite clear that all motor vehicles must be registered.

End of story. If you want to try to deny the legitimacy of the legislation, feel free. Criminal.
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
#687
Quote: Originally Posted by VanIsle View Post

Yes I do. $75.00 at a time every 5 years. The cost of D.L.'s and the cost of the Gun registry - cash grabs no matter how you slice it. Useless expenses to everyone but any government.

Then might I suggest the use of Zyprexa. You are clearly suffering from paranoia.

The registry of vehicle ownership is a useful tool in the fight against organized crime. Namely the car theft industry. The registry of motor vehicles (permits to be on the road) is a useful tool for ensuring (modulo unscrupulous inspectors) that the vehicles on the road are safe and will not often suddenly run over a group of school children crossing the streets because the brakes failed.

Although the government may be sometimes corrupt or institute stupid legislation which is bad and/or costly, thinking that they are trying to disarm you with a long-gun registry puts you into the same boat as people who think Elvis is still alive, people that they have been abducted by aliens, or people who think that a secret organization is in charge of the world.
 
VanIsle
#688
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

Then might I suggest the use of Zyprexa. You are clearly suffering from paranoia.

The registry of vehicle ownership is a useful tool in the fight against organized crime. Namely the car theft industry. The registry of motor vehicles (permits to be on the road) is a useful tool for ensuring (modulo unscrupulous inspectors) that the vehicles on the road are safe and will not often suddenly run over a group of school children crossing the streets because the brakes failed.

Although the government may be sometimes corrupt or institute stupid legislation which is bad and/or costly, thinking that they are trying to disarm you with a long-gun registry puts you into the same boat as people who think Elvis is still alive, people that they have been abducted by aliens, or people who think that a secret organization is in charge of the world.

Think I'll just suggest to you that you lighten up and get a little sense of humour.
 
VanIsle
#689
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

Gun registry is a key component to reducing the crime rate and according to the police statistics gun registry has helped significantly.

Only thugs want to get rid of the gun registry and thugs are out there typing up all kinds of misinformation just to get it cancelled and unfortunately the Conservatives swallowed it hook line and sinker.

Liberalman - thugs don't care about the gun registry. They don't use it. It isn't stopping them.
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
#690
Quote: Originally Posted by VanIsle View Post

Think I'll just suggest to you that you lighten up and get a little sense of humour.

The jokes on you, it would seem.