It's Climate Change I tell'ya!! IT'S CLIMATE CHANGE!!


darkbeaver
+1
#661
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

That ought to firm up the permafrost a tad.


-22
 
Mowich
+6
#662
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Kinda like DiCaprio squealing like a bitch back to his 250 foot - diesel guzzling yacht about seeing global warming in real time when a chinook blew through Banff Nat Park one afternoon.

What a maroon


Teflon Len - bounced right off him, Cap. Never once admitted that he was mistaken. Just jumped on his jet and flew off to another Climate Hysterics Glad-Hander. I've puzzled over why with so many AB extras on the set, no one bothered to set him straight about naturally recurring Snow Eaters. Maybe they were too busy laughing as hard as the rest of us at his utter stupidity and arrogance.
 
darkbeaver
+1
#663
The climate is subject to constant change you stupid neanderthal fluxuation orbital disfunction, frost encapulation, dive4rgent stuff
 
Mowich
+2
#664
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Of course that previous post is a simp[ification f a tedious simplificatipon of primate stuff. Whats that fuykken bannana worth? Human overreach builds Empires what build the forges of war. mustbiggestusbe generations of oblivion


Thanks for that, DB - don't know if I agree with you or not as I am unable to identify the meaning of some of your phraseology.
 
Mowich
+1
#665
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

The climate is subject to constant change. You stupid neanderthal - fluxuation orbital disfunction, frost encapulation, dive4rgent stuff


It is and he is - and I will take your word for the rest.
 
captain morgan
+3
#666
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

Teflon Len - bounced right off him, Cap. Never once admitted that he was mistaken. Just jumped on his jet and flew off to another Climate Hysterics Glad-Hander. I've puzzled over why with so many AB extras on the set, no one bothered to set him straight about naturally recurring Snow Eaters. Maybe they were too busy laughing as hard as the rest of us at his utter stupidity and arrogance.

Having grown up in Southern AB and spent a lot of time in Canmore/Banff over the years, chinooks are simply second nature.


BTW - totally impressed that you know what it means!
 
AnnaEmber
#667
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

The Sun cares nothing about your tiny footprint and this planet could not care less about us tiny organisms and our impact on it. Weeds and insects are more important here than we will ever be.

irrelevant
 
AnnaEmber
#668
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

You could be an example of your own point.

Could be? gee An "if". Powerful argument you have there ... lol
 
spilledthebeer
+1
#669
Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

With the number of breathing things on the planet increasing all the time the extinction theme is as much bullshit as all the rest of the junk science the elite publish. When you cannot get one fact right you disqualify yourself from holding positions of influence. A fukked up world is the result of fukked up people trying to run something that is way beyond their abilities.


All flesh adapts to climatic changes, the world is dynamic, that means the reason no two people are alike is the same reason some species go extinct and the changed landscape plays host to new form of breathing life. Having to explain that means you are all really, really stupid of just complete assholes. Either way we both know you days are numbered while mine days of influence has just started.




If all things are capable of adapting.................................


then why are you NOT ADAPTING to the reality.....................


that labels Muslim radicals as murderous trouble makers???



And why are you refusing to adapt to the reality of the existence of Israel????????????????


Should we conclude that always irrational Muslims are against evolution????????????????


Your theories and logic apparently have holes in them...........


LIKE YOUR Empty HEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Curious Cdn
#670
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Having grown up in Southern AB and spent a lot of time in Canmore/Banff over the years, chinooks are simply second nature.
BTW - totally impressed that you know what it means!

http://youtu.be/AzilgxcYRmU
 
spilledthebeer
#671
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

Thanks for that, DB - don't know if I agree with you or not as I am unable to identify the meaning of some of your phraseology.


"Dork" - beaver is offering the usual LIE-beral EXCUSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Since all things are a trade off between good and bad - such as ..............................



Trees are good for controlling soil erosion - but it is easier to make a house with lumber......................


building houses is a trade off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Steel hinges and reliable door locks are useful in preventing theft - but making such things requires green house gas belching



smelters and thus making such things is a trade off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Or - public transit is a good thing and will reduce greenhouse emissions - but LIE-berals cannot afford to build that useful public transit



simply because they NEED GRAVY to buy votes and thus it is a trade off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIE-berals argue CONSTANTLY that their FAILED POLICIES ARE NEVER TRULY WRONG................................


because all govt choices are a trade off and there will always be winners and losers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The ONE THING TO TAKE AWAY from that DECEPTIVE LIE-beral philosophy.....................................


IS HOW OFTEN THE WINNERS ARE LIE-berals.....................................


and HOW OFTEN THE LOSERS ARE ORDINARY CDNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Many times on this site - and others - LIE-berals have presented arguments PRETENDING.................................


that there is no real difference between various political parties!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Our resident hemerHOID even went so far recently as to tell us that "ALL POLITICAL PARTIES ONLY SERVE THE ULTRA RICH"!!!


This is the GREAT LIE-beral LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That nothing can be changed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That HOPE is a fools game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That political activists are modern day LUNATICS FROM LA MANCHA - TILTING AT POLITICAL WINDMILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It suits LIE-berals that so many Cdns do not vote in elections!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The less people who vote.............................


THE EASIER IT IS FOR RADICALS AND HOGS to dominate our Parliament!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!


Dork Beaver is merely selling the LIE-beral political opium!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Just as Lenin told us that "religion is the opiate of the masses".................................


LIE-berals are telling us that passive despair and surrender ARE GOOD FOR US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Durry
+6
#672
GLOBAL WARMING / CLIMATE CHANGE UPDATE !!

The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from the Consulate at Bergen, Norway.

Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard of temperatures in the Arctic zone.

Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes.

Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm.

Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.

Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.

Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coast cities uninhabitable.

I must apologize. I’ve neglected to mention that this report was from November 2 , 1922, as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post 97 years ago.

This must have been caused by the Model T Ford's emissions or possibly from horse and cattle farts.

Snopes, verified the article did in fact appear in 1922!

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/warm-welcome/

Yours truly, etc. etc.
 
Danbones
+5
#673
Ummmmm

FFS

Venice Menace: Famed City is Sinking & Tilting
By Live Science Staff March 21, 2012
https://www.livescience.com/19195-ve...ng-slowly.html


Land subsidence in the Venetian area: known and recent aspects
Article (PDF Available) · January 2005
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...recent_aspects

Eustacy and land subsidence in the Venice Lagoon at the beginning of the new millennium
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...24796304001939

Global warmist alarmists are among the sheepiest communist sheep dogma goattards there are .

...and global warming is a CON s piracy theory - what's in your wallet?
Last edited by Danbones; Nov 27th, 2019 at 06:10 PM..
 
VIBC
+2
#674
Quote: Originally Posted by Durry View Post

..... I’ve neglected to mention that this report was from November 2 , 1922 ....

Also neglected - more significantly: "As interesting as this nearly century-old article might be from a modern perspective, however, it isn’t substantive evidence either for or against the concept of anthropogenic global warming. As documented elsewhere, the warming phenomena observed in 1922 proved to be indicative only of a local event in Spitzbergen, not a trend applicable to the Arctic as a whole." - Snopes.com
 
Mowich
+3
#675
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Having grown up in Southern AB and spent a lot of time in Canmore/Banff over the years, chinooks are simply second nature.


BTW - totally impressed that you know what it means!

Watched a doc years ago titled 'The Snow Eater'. Some fascinating vids of how fast the snow melts when one hits.
 
Mowich
+7
#676
Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

Climate scientists are speaking out against grossly exaggerated claims about global warming.

Environmental journalists and advocates have in recent weeks made a number of apocalyptic predictions about the impact of climate change. Bill McKibben suggested climate-driven fires in Australia had made koalas “functionally extinct.” Extinction Rebellion said “Billions will die” and “Life on Earth is dying.” Vice claimed the “collapse of civilization may have already begun.”

Few have underscored the threat more than student climate activist Greta Thunberg and Green New Deal sponsor Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. The latter said, “The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change.” Says Thunberg in her new book, “Around 2030 we will be in a position to set off an irreversible chain reaction beyond human control that will lead to the end of our civilization as we know it.”

Sometimes, scientists themselves make apocalyptic claims. “It’s difficult to see how we could accommodate a billion people or even half of that,” if Earth warms four degrees, said one earlier this year. “The potential for multi-breadbasket failure is increasing,” said another. If sea levels rise as much as the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predicts, another scientist said, “It will be an unmanageable problem.”

Apocalyptic statements like these have real-world impacts. In September, a group of British psychologists said children are increasingly suffering from anxiety from the frightening discourse around climate change. In October, an activist with Extinction Rebellion (”XR”) — an environmental group founded in 2018 to commit civil disobedience to draw awareness to the threat its founders and supporters say climate change poses to human existence — and a videographer, were kicked and beaten in a London Tube station by angry commuters. And last week, an XR co-founder said a genocide like the Holocaust was “happening again, on a far greater scale, and in plain sight” from climate change.

Climate change is an issue I care passionately about and have dedicated a significant portion of my life to addressing. I have been politically active on the issue for over 20 years and have researched and written about it for 17 years. Over the last four years, my organization, Environmental Progress, has worked with some of the world’s leading climate scientists to prevent carbon emissions from rising. So far, we’ve helped prevent emissions increasing the equivalent of adding 24 million cars to the road.

I also care about getting the facts and science right and have in recent months corrected inaccurate and apocalyptic news media coverage of fires in the Amazon and fires in California, both of which have been improperly presented as resulting primarily from climate change.

Journalists and activists alike have an obligation to describe environmental problems honestly and accurately, even if they fear doing so will reduce their news value or salience with the public. There is good evidence that the catastrophist framing of climate change is self-defeating because it alienates and polarizes many people. And exaggerating climate change risks distracting us from other important issues including ones we might have more near-term control over.

I feel the need to say this up-front because I want the issues I’m about to raise to be taken seriously and not dismissed by those who label as “climate deniers” or “climate delayers” anyone who pushes back against exaggeration.

With that out of the way, let’s look whether the science supports what’s being said.

First, no credible scientific body has ever said climate change threatens the collapse of civilization much less the extinction of the human species. “‘Our children are going to die in the next 10 to 20 years.’ What’s the scientific basis for these claims?” BBC’s Andrew Neil asked a visibly uncomfortable XR spokesperson last month.

“These claims have been disputed, admittedly,” she said. “There are some scientists who are agreeing and some who are saying it’s not true. But the overall issue is that these deaths are going to happen.”

“But most scientists don’t agree with this,” said Neil. “I looked through IPCC reports and see no reference to billions of people going to die, or children in 20 years. How would they die?”

“Mass migration around the world already taking place due to prolonged drought in countries, particularly in South Asia. There are wildfires in Indonesia, the Amazon rainforest, Siberia, the Arctic,” she said.

But in saying so, the XR spokesperson had grossly misrepresented the science. “There is robust evidence of disasters displacing people worldwide,” notes IPCC, “but limited evidence that climate change or sea-level rise is the direct cause.”

What about “mass migration”? “The majority of resultant population movements tend to occur within the borders of affected countries," says IPCC.

It’s not like climate doesn’t matter. It’s that climate change is outweighed by other factors. Earlier this year, researchers found that climate “has affected organized armed conflict within countries.

However, other drivers, such as low socioeconomic development and low capabilities of the state, are judged to be substantially more influential.”

Last January, after climate scientists criticized Rep. Ocasio-Cortez for saying the world would end in 12 years, her spokesperson said "We can quibble about the phraseology, whether it's existential or cataclysmic.” He added, “We're seeing lots of [climate change-related] problems that are already impacting lives."

That last part may be true, but it’s also true that economic development has made us less vulnerable, which is why there was a 99.7% decline in the death toll from natural disasters since its peak in 1931.

In 1931, 3.7 million people died from natural disasters. In 2018, just 11,000 did. And that decline occurred over a period when the global population quadrupled.

What about sea level rise? IPCC estimates sea level could rise two feet (0.6 meters) by 2100. Does that sound apocalyptic or even “unmanageable”?

Consider that one-third of the Netherlands is below sea level, and some areas are seven meters below sea level. You might object that Netherlands is rich while Bangladesh is poor. But the Netherlands adapted to living below sea level 400 years ago. Technology has improved a bit since then.

What about claims of crop failure, famine, and mass death? That’s science fiction, not science. Humans today produce enough food for 10 billion people, or 25% more than we need, and scientific bodies predict increases in that share, not declines.

The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) forecasts crop yields increasing 30% by 2050. And the poorest parts of the world, like sub-Saharan Africa, are expected to see increases of 80 to 90%.

Nobody is suggesting climate change won’t negatively impact crop yields. It could. But such declines should be put in perspective.

Wheat yields increased 100 to 300% around the world since the 1960s, while a study of 30 models found that yields would decline by 6% for every one degree Celsius increase in temperature.

Rates of future yield growth depend far more on whether poor nations get access to tractors, irrigation, and fertilizer than on climate change, says FAO.

All of this helps explain why IPCC anticipates climate change will have a modest impact on economic growth. By 2100, IPCC projects the global economy will be 300 to 500% larger than it is today. Both IPCC and the Nobel-winning Yale economist, William Nordhaus, predict that warming of 2.5°C and 4°C would reduce gross domestic product (GDP) by 2% and 5% over that same period.

Does this mean we shouldn’t worry about climate change? Not at all.

One of the reasons I work on climate change is because I worry about the impact it could have on endangered species. Climate change may threaten one million species globally and half of all mammals, reptiles, and amphibians in diverse places like the Albertine Rift in central Africa, home to the endangered mountain gorilla.

But it’s not the case that “we’re putting our own survival in danger” through extinctions, as Elizabeth Kolbert claimed in her book, Sixth Extinction. As tragic as animal extinctions are, they do not threaten human civilization. If we want to save endangered species, we need to do so because we care about wildlife for spiritual, ethical, or aesthetic reasons, not survival ones.

And exaggerating the risk, and suggesting climate change is more important than things like habitat destruction, are counterproductive.

For example, Australia’s fires are not driving koalas extinct, as Bill McKibben suggested. The main scientific body that tracks the species, the International Union for the Conservation of Nature, or IUCN, labels the koala “vulnerable,” which is one level less threatened than “endangered,” two levels less than “critically endangered,” and three less than “extinct” in the wild.

Should we worry about koalas? Absolutely! They are amazing animals and their numbers have declined to around 300,000. But they face far bigger threats such as the destruction of habitat, disease, bushfires, and invasive species.

Think of it this way. The climate could change dramatically — and we could still save koalas. Conversely, the climate could change only modestly — and koalas could still go extinct.

The monomaniacal focus on climate distracts our attention from other threats to koalas and opportunities for protecting them, like protecting and expanding their habitat.

As for fire, one of Australia’s leading scientists on the issue says, “Bushfire losses can be explained by the increasing exposure of dwellings to fire-prone bushlands. No other influences need be invoked. So even if climate change had played some small role in modulating recent bushfires, and we cannot rule this out, any such effects on risk to property are clearly swamped by the changes property are clearly swamped by the changes in exposure.”Nor are the fires solely due to drought, which is common in Australia, and exceptional this year. “Climate change is playing its role here,” said Richard Thornton of the Bushfire and Natural Hazards Cooperative Research Centre in Australia, “but it's not the cause of these fires."

The same is true for fires in the United States. In 2017, scientists modeled 37 different regions and found “humans may not only influence fire regimes but their presence can actually override, or swamp out, the effects of climate.” Of the 10 variables that influence fire, “none were as significant… as the anthropogenic variables,” such as building homes near, and managing fires and wood fuel growth within, forests.

Climate scientists are starting to push back against exaggerations by activists, journalists, and other scientists.

“While many species are threatened with extinction,” said Stanford’s Ken Caldeira, “climate change does not threaten human extinction... I would not like to see us motivating people to do the right thing by making them believe something that is false.”

I asked the Australian climate scientist Tom Wigley what he thought of the claim that climate change threatens civilization. “It really does bother me because it’s wrong,” he said. “All these young people have been misinformed. And partly it’s Greta Thunberg’s fault.

Not deliberately. But she’s wrong.”

But don’t scientists and activists need to exaggerate in order to get the public’s attention?

“I’m reminded of what [late Stanford University climate scientist] Steve Schneider used to say,” Wigley replied. “He used to say that as a scientist, we shouldn’t really be concerned about the way we slant things in communicating with people out on the street who might need a little push in a certain direction to realize that this is a serious problem. Steve didn’t have any qualms about speaking in that biased way. I don’t quite agree with that.”

Wigley started working on climate science full-time in 1975 and created one of the first climate models (MAGICC) in 1987. It remains one of the main climate models in use today.

“When I talk to the general public,” he said, “I point out some of the things that might make projections of warming less and the things that might make them more. I always try to present both sides.”

Part of what bothers me about the apocalyptic rhetoric by climate activists is that it is often accompanied by demands that poor nations be denied the cheap sources of energy they need to develop. I have found that many scientists share my concerns.

“If you want to minimize carbon dioxide in the atmosphere in 2070 you might want to accelerate the burning of coal in India today,” MIT climate scientist Kerry Emanuel said.

“It doesn’t sound like it makes sense. Coal is terrible for carbon. But it’s by burning a lot of coal that they make themselves wealthier, and by making themselves wealthier they have fewer children, and you don’t have as many people burning carbon, you might be better off in 2070.”

Emanuel and Wigley say the extreme rhetoric is making political agreement on climate change harder.

“You’ve got to come up with some kind of middle ground where you do reasonable things to mitigate the risk and try at the same time to lift people out of poverty and make them more resilient,” said Emanuel. “We shouldn’t be forced to choose between lifting people out of poverty and doing something for the climate.”

Happily, there is a plenty of middle ground between climate apocalypse and climate denial.

www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/11/25/why-everything-they-say-about-climate-change-is-wrong
 
petros
+6
#677
There is no climate crisis but sure as shit there is a power crisis and right now evil is winning.
 
spilledthebeer
+1
#678
Quote: Originally Posted by Danbones View Post

Ummmmm

FFS

Venice Menace: Famed City is Sinking & Tilting
By Live Science Staff March 21, 2012
https://www.livescience.com/19195-ve...ng-slowly.html


Land subsidence in the Venetian area: known and recent aspects
Article (PDF Available) · January 2005
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...recent_aspects

Eustacy and land subsidence in the Venice Lagoon at the beginning of the new millennium
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...24796304001939

Global warmist alarmists are among the sheepiest communist sheep dogma goattards there are .

...and global warming is a CON s piracy theory - what's in your wallet?




IF its a LIE-beral wallet.............................


then ITS MY FCUKING MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


GOD DAMNED CARBON SCAM THIEVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Here is yet another article poking holes in the LIE-beral “climate emergency” hysteria!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With some comments of my own in brackets):

NSW Fire and Rescue crews light controlled back burns on November 21, 2019 in St Albans, Australia. Most of NSW remains under severe or very high fire danger warnings as more than 50 fires continue to burn across the state. Six people have died and 577 homes have been lost since the start of the NSW bushfire season, with more than 420 homes destroyed in the past fortnight alone.

A volunteer firefighter in Australia has been charged after allegedly setting multiple blazes, some of which he helped put out afterwards, as the country continues to battle one of its worst bushfire seasons on record.

(So.........its “CLIMATE CHANGE” that is compelling unemployed volunteer fire fighters to set blazes that CREATE WORK FOR THEM??????????????????????)

Almost 130 bush and grass fires are burning around the state of New South Wales, and experts fear the crisis could get worse when summer begins next month. Queensland has also been impacted, with hundreds of firefighters deployed across both states.

(Yes we KNOW it is always HOT AND DRY at certain times of the year down under - and that has nothing to do with climate change!! And having ever more people moving into those desperately dry areas - so the damage from a typical fire grows ever higher then in previous years - IS BEING DELIBERATELY MISS- REPRESENTED by LIE-berals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Speaking to reporters on Wednesday, NSW police Detective Inspector Scott Nelson said the 19-year-old man -- a volunteer for the Rural Fire Service -- had been charged with seven counts of deliberately setting fires over a six-week period.

(Uh huh - and being fire bug IS NOT CAUSED BY CLIMATE CHANGE!!!! And in other news -we should recall that one of the biggest ever California fires - in 2017 was caused by CARELESS CAMPERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

(WE need also recall that California electrical company PG&E WAS DRIVEN INTO BANKRUPTCY after being SUED because of the wild fires its BADLY MAINTAINED electrical equipment sparked over several windy seasons!!!!!!!!!!)

(WE need also to recall that the 2019 California dry season was notable for BLACK OUTS - as PG&E - now risen from bankrupt status under new operators - SHUT OFF POWER to millions of people in California - IN A FAILED EFFORT to prevent their decrepit equipment from sparking YET MORE FIRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

He was arrested on Tuesday night after allegedly lighting a blaze in the Bega Valley area, in the state's southeast, that afternoon.

"As part of his duties as an (Rural Fire Service) volunteer he later attended that fire with other members and that fire was extinguished," Nelson said.

The man has been released on bail.

"We have zero tolerance for this type of behavior," Nelson said. "We all know the devastation these fires are causing."

In a statement, the NSW Rural Fire Service said it has "immediately stood down a volunteer member who has been charged over an alleged arson incident on the south coast."

(Uh huh- and the lure of govt money will continue to haunt the minds of people driven to poverty, rage and frustration by LIE-beral tax regimes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

"Over the past few weeks, we've seen firefighters going above and beyond in difficult and dangerous conditions," said the service's commissioner, Shane Fitzsimmons. "Our members will be rightly angry that the alleged actions of one individual can tarnish the reputation and hard work of so many.

"This type of alleged behavior is the ultimate betrayal of our own members, and of the broader community. The community has the right to be disappointed but we should not let it detract from the incredible work that firefighters have done in protecting and saving so many homes during unprecedented conditions."

The fires have also devastated koala populations in affected areas. This week vets were forced to euthanize a koala named Lewis, who had become a symbol of the destruction after a video of him being rescued went viral online.

(The HARD REALITY is that most people ARE MORE AFRAID of the LIE-beral tax climate than the climate of the natural world!! Climate change looks much less threatening than the economic disasters than LIE-beral deficit financing and shameless vote buying madness that are ravaging our economies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

(There have been other volunteer fire people arrested FOR MAKING WORK by setting fires!! Read the old book “Burning Down the House” to get a glimpse into the mind of some of these arsonists!! DESPERATE TIMES make for desperate actions and LIE-beral fiscal madness and selfish bigotry are making people CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
 
VIBC
#679
http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaels...er/2019/11/25/why-everything-they-say-about-climate-change-is-wrong[/QUOTE]

" Everything "? Everything said by " them "?? is wrong?

And the self-same article says " extreme rhetoric is making political agreement on climate change harder. "

Emanuel and Wigley can't even agree among themselves.
 
petros
+4
#680
Name one apocalyptic declaration that is undeniable fact?
 
Cannuck
#681
They aren't declarations. They're predictions. Leave it to a Trumpite to not know the difference
 
VIBC
#682
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Name one apocalyptic declaration that is undeniable fact?

Prophetic declarations can only be shown to be factual, or not, in the future - and in general any alleged fact can be denied; just read the forums.
 
petros
+3
#683
EU Parliament declares ′climate emergency′ | News
climate declaration from amp.dw.com
1 day ago · European lawmakers have voted to declare an EU-wide climate emergency, in a symbolic move aimed at
 
petros
+4
#684
Imagehttps://www.cbc.ca › technology
Web results
Organizers of climate-emergency declaration verifying names after ...
Nov. 6, 2019 · One name on a petition signed by 11000 scientists declaring a climate emergency is raising questions ...
Imagehttps://climateemergencydeclaration.org
Climate Emergency Declaration - Call to declare a climate emergency
Call to declare a climate emergency. ... received questions from councillors and media about what a 'climate emergency declaration' or ...
Imagewww.carbonleadershipforum.org › ...
Climate Declaration - Carbon Leadership ForumCarbon Leadership Forum
The Building and Real Estate Climate Declaration provides an opportunity for the entire sector –architects and engineers, building ...
Imagehttps://www.environdec.com › clima...
Climate declarations - The International EPD® System - EnvironDec
A Climate declaration is a voluntary document declaring the emissions of greenhouse gases of a product from a life cycle perspective.
 
VIBC
#685
Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

They aren't declarations. They're predictions. Leave it to a Trumpite to not know the difference

And to millions everywhere, to not know the difference between semantics / quotations, and actual thinking.
 
Cannuck
#686
Looks like Pete is especially angry today
Last edited by Cannuck; Nov 29th, 2019 at 02:46 PM..
 
petros
+2
#687
Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

Poor Cannuck is feeling triggered again

I see that.
 
Danbones
+1
#688


Hugs!
 
spilledthebeer
#689
Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

They aren't declarations. They're predictions. Leave it to a Trumpite to not know the difference






HERE IS A FACT FOR YOU::::::::::::::::::::


LIE-berals EXPECT TO PROFIT GREATLY .............................


from their SHAMELESS carbon tax SCAM GRAVY GRAB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Here is an article illustrating large holes in LIE-beral logic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



With some comments of my own in brackets):

Power cut to millions as California faces heightened wildfire risks

From Reuters

Published: October 9, 2019. Updated: October 9, 2019 10:43 PM EDT

Filed Under: Toronto SUN/ News/ World

LOS ANGELES — Electricity was shut off to nearly 750,000 California homes and workplaces on Wednesday as Pacific Gas and Electric Co (PG&E) imposed a string of planned power outages of unprecedented scale to reduce wildfire risks posed by extremely windy, dry weather.

(Is it not an ODD coincidence that PG&E is taking this action a year after Trump suggested that California authorities were not doing enough to manage the local FIRE RISKS?? And in related news- the currently largest fire in the state - as of October 29/2019 was started by a tree branch falling on a power line!! This suggests that Trump WAS RIGHT in blaming PG&E for careless maintenance!!!!)

(WE all know that hydro lines MUST be kept clear of large trees - but clearing the lines DOES NOT put DIVIDENDS into the pockets of power company investors!! Thus it is MUCH EASIER and cheaper to BLAME GLOBAL WARMING for old and failing and FIRE SPARKING electrical equipment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

(Once upon a time I moved into an OLD part of the city - with correspondingly ancient infrastructure - and the power used to FAIL for hours at a time - thanks to squirrels touching electrical lines that had lost their insulation to old age and exposed the bare copper wire to squirrel activated short circuits!! It was quite infuriating especially as the power WOULD REMAIN ON in the newer subdivisions just up the street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

(Or we could talk about the dogs KILLED and people injured by “hand wells” in Toronto and these were little power boxes buried in the sidewalks - usually for street lighting -and the insulation was rotten and some poor dog would stop to pee on the street light post - and get electrocuted as the urine completed the short circuit on the exposed wiring!! Those dog deaths ENDED when Hydro HOGS were PUBLICLY SHAMED into replacing the old equipment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

(Or we could talk about the series of hydro vault explosions that have plagued down town Toronto in recent years!! With all the new condos in the down town - the POORLY MAINTAINED electrical equipment IS STRAINED and fires result!! The power company has been forced to upgrade its equipment since so many fires wrecked such a large portion of the down town service equipment!!!!!!)
The power cut knocked out traffic signals, forced school closures and shut businesses and government offices across northern and central California, said Brian Ferguson, a spokesman for the state Office of Emergency Services.

(No doubt that loss of power was FRUSTRATING but of course the needs of civil service union HOGS and their gravy TAKE PRIORITY - don’t they!! But HOW SAD that Hydro HOGS cannot blame global warming for electrical vault fires - even though they probably WOULD if they could think of some half baked EXCUSE that would not be to much LAUGHED AT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

One key disruption was at the University of California at Berkeley, which canceled classes on Wednesday during the first phase of the “public safety power shutoff,” targeting more than 500,000 homes and businesses.

A second phase began at 3 p.m. Pacific time and extended the blackout to 234,000 more customers, said the utility, which was considering a third phase for 4,600 more dwellings and businesses.

(Yeah so who cares what biz is disrupted or who it costs - as long as HOGS don’t have to pay the bill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Although PG&E said changing weather conditions and work-arounds had restored power to about 44,000 customers, its action was the largest precautionary electricity shutoff undertaken by California’s biggest investor-owned utility.

“It’s too bad that it is such a large area to be turned off,” said Matthew Gallagher, a resident of Vacaville, a town 60 miles (100 km) northeast of San Francisco, where everything, from the Walmart outlet to gasoline service stations, was closed for lack of power.

A similar cutoff was under consideration by neighboring utility Southern California Edison for nearly 174,000 of its customers, about 50,000 of them in Los Angeles County, should severe winds hit southern California on Thursday as forecast, SoCal Edison spokeswoman Taelor Bakewell said.

(One wonders how many suddenly cut off customers went out and bought gas powered generators?? Cutting the power may have reduced the fire risk - but probably INCREASED green house gas emissions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Some of California’s most devastating wildfires were sparked in recent years by damage to electrical transmission lines from recurring bouts of high winds that then spread the flames through tinder-dry vegetation into populated areas.

(Isnt it HANDY that we in Ontari-owe will not have to face such difficulties -
thanks to the BIG ice storm of a few years back!! Ontari-owe Hydro is just as careless as PG&E about clearing power lines and that ice storm did a GREAT JOB of cleaning away dangerous tree branches!! Its just TOO BAD about all the emergency over time costs and assorted disruptions of peoples lives that ensued simply because Ontari-owe Hydro PINCHED PENNIES on line clearing!!!!!!!!!!!)
(And the ice storm did Quebec a big favour as well- knocking down a huge number of OLD towers and FORCING BOTH modernization and enhancements to the system so it will not be so easily KNOCKED OUT IN FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

“We are entering into a two-, three- or four-day period of extreme fire danger in California,” Governor Gavin Newsom said at an event in San Diego on Wednesday.

(Yes and when the wind stops blowing and the fires are put out - then all will be FORGOTTEN till next year!! Govt has decided that MAINTENANCE of anything cuts too deeply into the HOG gravy supply!! This is why we now have so many “extreme flood events” in Ontari-owe!! New storm drains cost to much money - so HOGS SHUN such expenses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Gale-force wind gusts, mostly in higher elevations, were expected to intensify late on Wednesday across northern and central California before gradually migrating into southern California overnight and Thursday, National Weather Service meteorologist Steve Anderson said. He said extremely low humidity levels added to the fire threat.

(These gale force winds are a YEARLY OCCURRENCE so why aint more power lines buried or at least strengthened and protected?? I guess HOG gravy takes precedence over customer service and public safety!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

The California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (Cal Fire) said “red-flag” warnings were posted across the state for what was shaping up to be the strongest wind event so far this season.

PG&E warned residents to prepare for outages that could last several days. But spokeswoman Kristi Jourdan said it expected to restore supply to most customers within 24 to 48 hours after high winds abate, once power lines were inspected and any damage repaired.

(LIE-berals tell us we are “IN a Climate Emergency” but nobody seems to be asking what it costs to have all those gas guzzling water bombers buzzing around fire scenes!! And what of the environmental cost to even INSPECT all those MILES of power lines before service is restored???????????????????)

Many customers live in areas where breezes were light on Wednesday, but some are served by transmission lines hit by high winds elsewhere and thus were part of a larger portion of the grid that was turned off, PG&E spokesman Jeff Smith said.

It urged customers to stock up on flashlights, fresh batteries, first-aid supplies and cash, and plan for healthcare needs, from refrigerated medicine to electrical devices.

The utility said it opened 28 community centres across the planned outage zone to provide restrooms, bottled water, battery charging and air-conditioned seating during the day.

PG&E has drawn increased scrutiny in recent years over maintenance of transmission wires and other equipment implicated in major wildfires.

(Uh huh - PG&E equipment implicated in wild fires- meaning TRUMP WAS RIGHT about sloppy maintenance!! And here in Ontari-owe we can just as fairly BLAME govt for the increasing FLOOD issues on our ROADS and in our buildings!! But it remains easier for LIE-berals to blame global warming than admit to SLOPPY MAINTENANCE OVER DECADES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

In May, state fire investigators determined that PG&E transmission lines caused the deadliest and most destructive wildfire on record in California, last year’s wind-driven Camp Fire that killed 85 people in and around the town of Paradise.

(So the only affordable “solution” is to shut off power in high risk areas?? Should we assume Toronto will “solve” flood problems by closing roads whenever there is a chance of rain?? Yes- it is so much cheaper to close roads than build those rain water retention ponds - that REPLACE the marshes we filled in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Cal Fire likewise concluded that PG&E power lines had sparked a 2017 flurry of wildfires that swept California’s wine country north of San Francisco Bay.

PG&E filed for bankruptcy in January 2019, citing potential civil liabilities in excess of $30 billion from the fires.

(Uh huh- and we can bet the CEO and other senior staff walked away - into genteel retirement with their pockets FULL OF CASH!! As for rank and file union HOGS- no doubt they got new jobs with whoever took over the PG&E power grid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

(It is all a REPLAY of Stan Kabel -the drunken HOG whose miss-management of the Walkerton water system KILLED SEVEN PEOPLE and crippled 100 more for LIFE- meaning their Kidneys FAILED and they will need Dialysis for the rest of their lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

(As for Kabel- he got a FINE NEW union HOG JOB - installing traffic lights!!!!!!)

(Or we could talk about the FORMER head of Ontari-owe Hydro - the notorious Ellen Clitheroe whose personal spending habits were so offensive and greedy that she was FIRED - BY EMBARRASSED LIE-berals - after only three years as CEO!! Clitheroe then became an Anglican Minister and found a fun hobby - to occupy her spare time- SHE SUED Ontari-owe Hydro because her $337 grand per year pension was NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
 
spilledthebeer
#690
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

Climate scientists are speaking out against grossly exaggerated claims about global warming.

Environmental journalists and advocates have in recent weeks made a number of apocalyptic predictions about the impact of climate change. Bill McKibben suggested climate-driven fires in Australia had made koalas “functionally extinct.” Extinction Rebellion said “Billions will die” and “Life on Earth is dying.” Vice claimed the “collapse of civilization may have already begun.”

Few have underscored the threat more than student climate activist Greta Thunberg and Green New Deal sponsor Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. The latter said, “The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change.” Says Thunberg in her new book, “Around 2030 we will be in a position to set off an irreversible chain reaction beyond human control that will lead to the end of our civilization as we know it.”

Sometimes, scientists themselves make apocalyptic claims. “It’s difficult to see how we could accommodate a billion people or even half of that,” if Earth warms four degrees, said one earlier this year. “The potential for multi-breadbasket failure is increasing,” said another. If sea levels rise as much as the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predicts, another scientist said, “It will be an unmanageable problem.”

Apocalyptic statements like these have real-world impacts. In September, a group of British psychologists said children are increasingly suffering from anxiety from the frightening discourse around climate change. In October, an activist with Extinction Rebellion (”XR”) — an environmental group founded in 2018 to commit civil disobedience to draw awareness to the threat its founders and supporters say climate change poses to human existence — and a videographer, were kicked and beaten in a London Tube station by angry commuters. And last week, an XR co-founder said a genocide like the Holocaust was “happening again, on a far greater scale, and in plain sight” from climate change.

Climate change is an issue I care passionately about and have dedicated a significant portion of my life to addressing. I have been politically active on the issue for over 20 years and have researched and written about it for 17 years. Over the last four years, my organization, Environmental Progress, has worked with some of the world’s leading climate scientists to prevent carbon emissions from rising. So far, we’ve helped prevent emissions increasing the equivalent of adding 24 million cars to the road.

I also care about getting the facts and science right and have in recent months corrected inaccurate and apocalyptic news media coverage of fires in the Amazon and fires in California, both of which have been improperly presented as resulting primarily from climate change.

Journalists and activists alike have an obligation to describe environmental problems honestly and accurately, even if they fear doing so will reduce their news value or salience with the public. There is good evidence that the catastrophist framing of climate change is self-defeating because it alienates and polarizes many people. And exaggerating climate change risks distracting us from other important issues including ones we might have more near-term control over.

I feel the need to say this up-front because I want the issues I’m about to raise to be taken seriously and not dismissed by those who label as “climate deniers” or “climate delayers” anyone who pushes back against exaggeration.

With that out of the way, let’s look whether the science supports what’s being said.

First, no credible scientific body has ever said climate change threatens the collapse of civilization much less the extinction of the human species. “‘Our children are going to die in the next 10 to 20 years.’ What’s the scientific basis for these claims?” BBC’s Andrew Neil asked a visibly uncomfortable XR spokesperson last month.

“These claims have been disputed, admittedly,” she said. “There are some scientists who are agreeing and some who are saying it’s not true. But the overall issue is that these deaths are going to happen.”

“But most scientists don’t agree with this,” said Neil. “I looked through IPCC reports and see no reference to billions of people going to die, or children in 20 years. How would they die?”

“Mass migration around the world already taking place due to prolonged drought in countries, particularly in South Asia. There are wildfires in Indonesia, the Amazon rainforest, Siberia, the Arctic,” she said.

But in saying so, the XR spokesperson had grossly misrepresented the science. “There is robust evidence of disasters displacing people worldwide,” notes IPCC, “but limited evidence that climate change or sea-level rise is the direct cause.”

What about “mass migration”? “The majority of resultant population movements tend to occur within the borders of affected countries," says IPCC.

It’s not like climate doesn’t matter. It’s that climate change is outweighed by other factors. Earlier this year, researchers found that climate “has affected organized armed conflict within countries.

However, other drivers, such as low socioeconomic development and low capabilities of the state, are judged to be substantially more influential.”

Last January, after climate scientists criticized Rep. Ocasio-Cortez for saying the world would end in 12 years, her spokesperson said "We can quibble about the phraseology, whether it's existential or cataclysmic.” He added, “We're seeing lots of [climate change-related] problems that are already impacting lives."

That last part may be true, but it’s also true that economic development has made us less vulnerable, which is why there was a 99.7% decline in the death toll from natural disasters since its peak in 1931.

In 1931, 3.7 million people died from natural disasters. In 2018, just 11,000 did. And that decline occurred over a period when the global population quadrupled.

What about sea level rise? IPCC estimates sea level could rise two feet (0.6 meters) by 2100. Does that sound apocalyptic or even “unmanageable”?

Consider that one-third of the Netherlands is below sea level, and some areas are seven meters below sea level. You might object that Netherlands is rich while Bangladesh is poor. But the Netherlands adapted to living below sea level 400 years ago. Technology has improved a bit since then.

What about claims of crop failure, famine, and mass death? That’s science fiction, not science. Humans today produce enough food for 10 billion people, or 25% more than we need, and scientific bodies predict increases in that share, not declines.

The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) forecasts crop yields increasing 30% by 2050. And the poorest parts of the world, like sub-Saharan Africa, are expected to see increases of 80 to 90%.

Nobody is suggesting climate change won’t negatively impact crop yields. It could. But such declines should be put in perspective.

Wheat yields increased 100 to 300% around the world since the 1960s, while a study of 30 models found that yields would decline by 6% for every one degree Celsius increase in temperature.

Rates of future yield growth depend far more on whether poor nations get access to tractors, irrigation, and fertilizer than on climate change, says FAO.

All of this helps explain why IPCC anticipates climate change will have a modest impact on economic growth. By 2100, IPCC projects the global economy will be 300 to 500% larger than it is today. Both IPCC and the Nobel-winning Yale economist, William Nordhaus, predict that warming of 2.5°C and 4°C would reduce gross domestic product (GDP) by 2% and 5% over that same period.

Does this mean we shouldn’t worry about climate change? Not at all.

One of the reasons I work on climate change is because I worry about the impact it could have on endangered species. Climate change may threaten one million species globally and half of all mammals, reptiles, and amphibians in diverse places like the Albertine Rift in central Africa, home to the endangered mountain gorilla.

But it’s not the case that “we’re putting our own survival in danger” through extinctions, as Elizabeth Kolbert claimed in her book, Sixth Extinction. As tragic as animal extinctions are, they do not threaten human civilization. If we want to save endangered species, we need to do so because we care about wildlife for spiritual, ethical, or aesthetic reasons, not survival ones.

And exaggerating the risk, and suggesting climate change is more important than things like habitat destruction, are counterproductive.

For example, Australia’s fires are not driving koalas extinct, as Bill McKibben suggested. The main scientific body that tracks the species, the International Union for the Conservation of Nature, or IUCN, labels the koala “vulnerable,” which is one level less threatened than “endangered,” two levels less than “critically endangered,” and three less than “extinct” in the wild.

Should we worry about koalas? Absolutely! They are amazing animals and their numbers have declined to around 300,000. But they face far bigger threats such as the destruction of habitat, disease, bushfires, and invasive species.

Think of it this way. The climate could change dramatically — and we could still save koalas. Conversely, the climate could change only modestly — and koalas could still go extinct.

The monomaniacal focus on climate distracts our attention from other threats to koalas and opportunities for protecting them, like protecting and expanding their habitat.

As for fire, one of Australia’s leading scientists on the issue says, “Bushfire losses can be explained by the increasing exposure of dwellings to fire-prone bushlands. No other influences need be invoked. So even if climate change had played some small role in modulating recent bushfires, and we cannot rule this out, any such effects on risk to property are clearly swamped by the changes property are clearly swamped by the changes in exposure.”Nor are the fires solely due to drought, which is common in Australia, and exceptional this year. “Climate change is playing its role here,” said Richard Thornton of the Bushfire and Natural Hazards Cooperative Research Centre in Australia, “but it's not the cause of these fires."

The same is true for fires in the United States. In 2017, scientists modeled 37 different regions and found “humans may not only influence fire regimes but their presence can actually override, or swamp out, the effects of climate.” Of the 10 variables that influence fire, “none were as significant… as the anthropogenic variables,” such as building homes near, and managing fires and wood fuel growth within, forests.

Climate scientists are starting to push back against exaggerations by activists, journalists, and other scientists.

“While many species are threatened with extinction,” said Stanford’s Ken Caldeira, “climate change does not threaten human extinction... I would not like to see us motivating people to do the right thing by making them believe something that is false.”

I asked the Australian climate scientist Tom Wigley what he thought of the claim that climate change threatens civilization. “It really does bother me because it’s wrong,” he said. “All these young people have been misinformed. And partly it’s Greta Thunberg’s fault.

Not deliberately. But she’s wrong.”

But don’t scientists and activists need to exaggerate in order to get the public’s attention?

“I’m reminded of what [late Stanford University climate scientist] Steve Schneider used to say,” Wigley replied. “He used to say that as a scientist, we shouldn’t really be concerned about the way we slant things in communicating with people out on the street who might need a little push in a certain direction to realize that this is a serious problem. Steve didn’t have any qualms about speaking in that biased way. I don’t quite agree with that.”

Wigley started working on climate science full-time in 1975 and created one of the first climate models (MAGICC) in 1987. It remains one of the main climate models in use today.

“When I talk to the general public,” he said, “I point out some of the things that might make projections of warming less and the things that might make them more. I always try to present both sides.”

Part of what bothers me about the apocalyptic rhetoric by climate activists is that it is often accompanied by demands that poor nations be denied the cheap sources of energy they need to develop. I have found that many scientists share my concerns.

“If you want to minimize carbon dioxide in the atmosphere in 2070 you might want to accelerate the burning of coal in India today,” MIT climate scientist Kerry Emanuel said.

“It doesn’t sound like it makes sense. Coal is terrible for carbon. But it’s by burning a lot of coal that they make themselves wealthier, and by making themselves wealthier they have fewer children, and you don’t have as many people burning carbon, you might be better off in 2070.”

Emanuel and Wigley say the extreme rhetoric is making political agreement on climate change harder.

“You’ve got to come up with some kind of middle ground where you do reasonable things to mitigate the risk and try at the same time to lift people out of poverty and make them more resilient,” said Emanuel. “We shouldn’t be forced to choose between lifting people out of poverty and doing something for the climate.”

Happily, there is a plenty of middle ground between climate apocalypse and climate denial.

www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/11/25/why-everything-they-say-about-climate-change-is-wrong




In the latest news - the head of the United Nations says .........................


WE HAVE RUN OUT OF TIME AND MUST MAKE CHANGES NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Does that mean the GREEDY BASTARDS will stop flying in airplanes and take the train................................


and TURN OFF the air conditioning at the Spanish villa where they will stay....................................


for the next climate conference?????????????????????????????


Where the HOGS will meet yet again to discuss the best ways to screw ordinary people............................


while maintaining or even EXPANDING THEIR PRIVILEGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


These apocalyptic warnings would be a LOT EASIER TO BELIEVE......................................


if our so called leaders ACTED THE PART once in a while!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


if its LIE-beral then its a LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!