Time: can time exist without matter?


socratus
#1

Time: can time exist without matter?
According to Newton the answer is “ Yes”
According to Einstein the answer is “ No”
Who is right, who is wrong?
=..
Newton declared that time is absoluteand wrote that time
“ flows equably without relation to anything external”.
Einstein had another opinion.
He wanted to know:
“ Where does the conception of time come from?”
“ What is the essence of time?”.
To explain these questions he created two theories: SRT and GRT .
=..
According to SRT / GRT time is relative and depends on the mass and speed
It means that different moving mass-bodiescan create different time.
It also means that space and time is only a result of some physical process


of moving mass / moving particles. The causefor time and space to be able

to appear is moving mass / moving particles.
============= …
Israel Sadovnik Socratus.


=.
 
petros
#2
Oh the gravity of it all.
 
Said1
#3
I'm still pondering the chicken and the egg thing meself.
 
petros
+1
#4  Top Rated Post
Egg.
 
Said1
+1
#5
Well. That settles that.
 
darkbeaver
+1
#6
Got no time without distance got no distance without chunks <1. Time cannot be canned therefore it isn't. Space does not permit me to present my theory of time at this time or other.
Neither Einstien nor Nelson offered any solution to the egg/chicken mystery.
 
WLDB
+1
#7
Does it matter?
 
BaalsTears
#8
I don't think Einstein anticipated Quantum Mechanics in his General Theory of Relativity. The question can probably only be answered when someone comes up with a Full Field Theory that is generally accepted by physicists.
 
Kreskin
#9
 
Dexter Sinister
#10
Socratus, you need/want to read Lee Smolin's latest book, Time Reborn.
 
Cliffy
#11
The invention of time screwed everything up, particularly our biological clock. Handy tool for controlling the worker drones though.
 
Dexter Sinister
+1
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTears View Post

I don't think Einstein anticipated Quantum Mechanics in his General Theory of Relativity.

You're right, he didn't, in fact quantum theory and general relativity are fundamentally inconsistent and cannot both be right in any absolute sense, but neither are they wrong in any absolute sense. Quantum mechanics treats space and time in the Newtonian way, as the fixed background in which events are played out, general relativity doesn't recognize that reality is grainy as quantum mechanics insists it is. That doesn't mean they're wrong, it means they're incomplete and are applicable only in limited conditions, they can't describe the whole of reality, much as Newtonian physics is applicable only in limited circumstances, but still useful. Any deeper theory that unites quantum mechanics and general relativity must reduce to them under certain limiting approximations, just as the terms in the equations of general relativity that distinguish it from Newton's formulation become undetectably small under conditions of relatively low mass, low velocity, and low energy. Newtonian equations fall out of Einstein's if you delete certain terms as being small enough to be ignored. We're getting successively better approximations, but we still haven't got it all.
 
PoliticalNick
+1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTears View Post

I don't think Einstein anticipated Quantum Mechanics in his General Theory of Relativity. The question can probably only be answered when someone comes up with a Full Field Theory that is generally accepted by physicists.

I hear Sheldon does that near the end of this season.
 
socratus
#14

We have two (2) kinds of time.

One is Newtonian – independent time.

Anotheris Minkowski time - dependent on space (spacetime)

" The map is not the territory ".

Where is the time-map and where is the time-territory?

===..
 
Cliffy
+1
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by socratus View Post

We have two (2) kinds of time.

One is Newtonian – independent time.

Anotheris Minkowski time - dependent on space (spacetime)

" The map is not the territory ".

Where is the time-map and where is the time-territory?

===..


Life does not provide a map for this journey because the destination is the beginning. It is just a learning experience.


 
socratus
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Life does not provide a map for this journey because the destination is the beginning. It is just a learning experience.


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Cliffy , you don't understand thisproverb fully.

=.

ThisAustralian Aboriginal Proverb says that we are all visitors

to this Earth time and this Earth place. . . . . . .. . . . .

. . .and then we return to our home.

Question:where is the our home?

In anyway, the Aborigines say that there are two time reference frame.
==.

Where is the time-map and whereis the time-territory?


 
JLM
#17
I guess, without matter, it doesn't matter if time exists! -
 
petros
#18
Matter and time are nothing without the energy that makes them tick.
 
Dexter Sinister
#19
Newton was actually more right than he knew when he stated that for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, he just didn't take it far enough. He thought space and time were the invariant backdrop where the interactions of matter and energy happen, Einstein showed that matter and energy act on space and time and they act on each other as well, and vice versa. Everything affects everything.
 
socratus
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Newton was actually more right than he knew when he stated that for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, he just didn't take it far enough. He thought space and time were the invariant backdrop where the interactions of matter and energy happen, Einstein showed that matter and energy act on space and time and they act on each other as well, and vice versa. Everything affects everything.


Newton was actually more right than he knewwhen he stated that

forevery action there's an equal and opposite reaction,

hejust didn't take it far enough.

Dexter Sinister

Correct, Newton * didn't take it far enough.*

For example: when you kill your time, the time kills you.

S

He thought space and time were the invariantbackdrop

wherethe interactions of matter and energy happen,

Dexter Sinister

Newton thought the Earth- gravity space and theEarth-gravity time

areabsolute independent conceptions.

S

Einstein showed that matter and energy act onspace and time and

theyact on each other as well, and vice versa.

Everything affects everything.

Dexter Sinister

Einstein showed that the Earth- gravity spaceand the Earth-gravity time

are relativeconceptions. The Earth- gravity space and the Earth-gravity time

aredependent on its mass and speed. If the mass and speed of Earth were

different then our Earth space and Earth time would be another.

S
 

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