WARMINGTON: Police union subjects chief to non-confidence vote

WARMINGTON: Police union subjects chief to non-confidence vote
Joe Warmington
More from Joe Warmington
February 15, 2018
February 15, 2018 9:20 PM EST
Toronto Police Association president Mike McCormack (ERNEST DOROSZUK/TORONTO SUN)
The Toronto Police Association’s executive is asking its 7,500 members if they have confidence in Chief Mark Saunders.
“The question went out electronically to the membership today,” TPA president Mike McCormack told the Toronto Sun.
Citing poor morale, cuts in staff and unrealistic expectations from the Transformational Task Force, officers and civilians will have a chance to express their feelings on the chief’s performance.
“It is a vote of confidence or non-confidence,” said the police union president. “We will see what the members decide. I don’t want to be here, but they put us here.”
He said an independent third party will “tabulate the votes and reveal how the members voted.”
McCormack added: “I think it’s going to be damning toward the chief but it won’t be the executive deciding that. It will the members.”
So far, the Toronto Police have not commented on this move by the TPA. But Mayor John Tory spoke up in support of Saunders, who will have been in the job for three years in April.
“I have complete confidence in Chief Mark Saunders,” said Tory.
Saying “Toronto is the safest city in North America thanks to the hard work of the members of the Toronto Police Service,” Tory remains “committed to the plan to modernize the Toronto Police Service and know the chief is dedicated to addressing the concerns which always arise when significant change takes place.”
Tory also cited “more than 80 new police officers are being hired and staffing is being significantly increased at 911 (dispatch). Responsibilities are being taken on by the city so police officers can be deployed where they are needed most instead of directing traffic or answering noise calls.”
The mayor also said he “strongly believes continuing constructive discussion is far preferable to billboards and online votes as a way to address genuinely held concerns on the part of our police officers.”
But McCormack countered his comments “are insulting to our members” since he talks about “80 new hires when he knows 81 have left in the last six weeks.”
The ones deciding on whether they have confidence in Saunders will be the officers and civilians who actually do police work — not a politician with “his own stake in the way things are, too,” said McCormack.
The bad feelings have boiled over in recent months thanks to a series of issues, including what officers feel is a lack of staff on shifts and a lack of support on issues like carding and street checks.
“It’s time for Mayor Tory to man up and stop dismissing our members and what is really going on,” insisted McCormack. “Maybe the mayor should push around a police car or work the 911 desk for two weeks before he talks about having confidence. We want him to stop ignoring what he knows is real and instead fix it.”
The vote total will be known next week.
WARMINGTON: Police union subjects chief to non-confidence vote | Toronto Sun
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This is all politics ...... The police who are leading this protest vote should all be disciplined severely.
Also, it's an electronic vote, who knows if it's even valid.
This comment is sort of off topic, but I would like to mention my major complaint of the Toronto Police Force.

Each time I view a Crime Stopper video in TV Land and where the police ask neighbours to rat on each other, it just makes my blood boil.

It immediately reminds me of exactly how the cops view rats and informers within their own ranks.

Rat-Cops are totally despised by the rank and file and they form a Blue Line and insist on union representation when appearing before any civilian tribunal.

I keep picturing the cops snickering in the background each time a citizen contacts them with information while at the same time they discourage co-operation from within their own ranks.

Each time I see the Toronto cops police a unionized picket line, and enforce court strike rulings against ordinary civilian workers, I need only remember where they refused a court ordered compliance when the cops went on a work slowdown themselves and wore baseball caps instead of full uniforms. The Toronto cops got no problems banging protesters over the head with Billy Sticks for not following protest rules, but refuse to follow court rulings themselves.

And the Mounties want unionization.

Can you imagine if the military was unionized?
Last edited by OpposingDigit; Feb 16th, 2018 at 12:37 PM..
Toronto Police union votes 'no confidence' in Chief Saunders
Kevin Connor
More from Kevin Connor
February 22, 2018
February 22, 2018 9:04 PM EST
Police Vote No Confidence For Chief Saunders 2:24
A vote by members of the Toronto Police Association shows a lack of confidence in the leadership of Chief Mark Saunders.
Eighty-six per cent of those who responded to the survey voted no confidence in Saunders, however, only 47% of the association’s 5,400 members took part in the symbolic polling — the results of which were released Thursday.
Issues such as staffing levels were contentious with the TPA.
The vote shows the frustration of officers, TPS President Mike McCormack said.
“Frontline staffing is critical and the police services board continues to dismiss that,” he said.
The vote turnout was good compared to voting numbers in such things as a municipal election, McCormack said, adding there is no spin here.
“We need to hire the right amount of people…the public should be concerned of wait (call) times,” he said. “We have reached a breaking point.”
“We have never taken the position that we don’t need to modernize…but there is the reality of officer safety and the ball is in their court,” McCormack added.
Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders attends the Toronto Police Board meets today at Toronto Police Services Headquarters, on Thursday February 22, 2018.
The Chief — who pointed out this is an election year at the TPA — said he is taking the no confidence vote “in context.”
“Modernization is important and I stand by it. We need to make changes and adjustments as we move forward,” Saunders said, adding the city is in the process of hiring 80 new cops.
“I’ve had conversations with frontline officers and I continue to listen…It’s a matter of looking at everything,” he said. “We have to utilize skills in the proper direction. As things start to get executed officers will see something tangible.”
The Toronto Police Services Board says it “unequivocally” supports Saunders.
“The board stands behind Chief Saunders. The board will continue to work with Chief Saunders to ensure that the Toronto Police Service is, and continues to be, an organization of excellence, and an organization committed to positive change and growth, and Toronto’s continued status as one of the safest big cities in the world,” board chair Andy Pringle said in a statement at Thursday’s monthly board meeting.
“We know that modernization of our police service is necessary. We also know that it is difficult,” he said. “We are keenly aware of the challenges this substantial change poses for our members, both uniform and civilian, as well as their families.”
Toronto Police union votes ‘no confidence’ in Chief Saunders | Toronto Sun
SURVEY SAYS: Officers want Durham Regional Police Chief gone
Jane Stevenson
More from Jane Stevenson
March 19, 2018
March 19, 2018 5:24 PM EDT
Durham Regional Police Chief Paul Martin (DURHAM REGIONAL POLICE)
Durham Regional Police officers have followed up their January non-confidence vote against Chief Paul Martin with a union-commissioned survey that shows the majority want him to go.
More than half of the officers who responded to a new survey conducted by Pollara (52%) said they wanted Martin removed immediately while 77 % indicated they didn’t want his contract renewed next spring.
The survey, commissioned by the Durham Regional Police Association, followed a vote of non-confidence against Martin, the Police Services Board and CAO Stan MacLellan at a special January meeting held by the union. Less than half of the association’s members — 418 of the union’s 1,150 members — responded to the survey.
Toronto Police officers have also delivered a vote of non-confidence against their chief, Mark Saunders.
“I’ve never seen morale as low as it is right now,” said Randy Henning, the president of the Durham Regional Police Association and 35-year veteran of the force.
“We’ve been trying to tell management for at least two years, things are really bad here. And it’s fallen on deaf ears. We have a problem with communications here in Durham. I don’t think this is unique to Durham region. I think this is a trend across the province.”
The Durham Regional Police Services Board said in a statement it continues to support Martin and will review the survey’s results at its April 9 meeting.
Martin, meanwhile, issued a statement: “I respect the issues and concerns that have been brought forward in the survey and will work with my leadership team over the next few weeks to analyze the results in greater detail. We need to better understand some of the root causes of the dissatisfaction and clear up any misunderstandings about the work being done.”
Here’s how Henning responded to questions about the survey, which was conducted Feb. 5-25 and has margin of error of 3.8%, 19 times out of 20.
Q. What are the other main points in the survey against the leadership?
A. Two-thirds of our membership (66%) has lost faith in the way the police sServices Board is essentially doing their job. And CAO Stan MacLellan, 80 % of our members feel he should be removed immediately from his position.
Q. What does the survey say about workplace culture?
A. Eighty-one per cent of our members feel that promotions are based on who you know. What’s even worse than that is 51 % of those people that feel that way, strongly feel that way.
Q. Anything else of significance?
A. We asked the members, ‘In the last three years, have you experienced any kind of bullying or harassment at work?’ Seventy per cent responded, saying they had and that as a number is staggering to me. What’s even more, I guess, disheartening for me, is those who said that they had, only 21 % actually filed a complaint. And when we asked them why, 69 % of the membership felt that it would affect their job, 56 % felt it wouldn’t be addressed properly by management and 37 % felt that it would never be addressed in a reasonable time frame anyway.
SURVEY SAYS: Officers want Durham Regional Police Chief gone | Toronto Sun
Essential service.

Get back to work.
Quote: Originally Posted by OpposingDigit View Post

Can you imagine if the military was unionized?

You don't have to imagine it. The Dutch military is unionized.
Hi! Hoid

I did not know that. Thank You for pointing that out to me.
I sure would like to read a copy of their labour contract.
Never worked with their army, but their air force and navy are top notch.

Very well-respected.
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Never worked with their army, but their air force and navy are top notch.

Very well-respected.

Poor LIE-berals- their insistence that crime rates are down and that we dont need cops and that we dont need "carding" to track criminal activity are unravelling in this 2018 summer of the gun!!!!!!

And typical airhead LIE-berals want to blame the mess on front line COPS!!!!!!


LIE-berals SHOOT the messengers as if that will solve ALL their problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SOunds rather like the police Union wants a toady in their that will let the Union run the force in Their best interests, not taxpayers.
Dixie Cup
Well I, for one, wouldn't want their jobs for "all the tea in China," so I refuse to criticize police as I don't "walk in their shoes" - their jobs aren't easy.

Having said that I also believe strongly that any police activity that is illegal should be taken seriously, investigated thoroughly by an independent group of civilians and the consequences harsh so that there is absolutely no doubt that these actions are taken seriously. If we can't trust the police, then our civilized society is doomed. As in any group, you'll find "bad apples" that need to be "weeded out" but I sincerely believe that most police are there and doing their jobs for the right reason.

Quote: Originally Posted by OpposingDigit View Post

This is all politics ...... The police who are leading this protest vote should all be disciplined severely.

Why? Did they give up their right to hold opinions or voice them when they put on the badge?

Quote: Originally Posted by Danbones View Post

Also, it's an electronic vote, who knows if it's even valid.

The FSB.
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Why? Did they give up their right to hold opinions or voice them when they put on the badge?

The FSB.

Poor tecumsehbonehead......he does not realize that in the eyes of Lie-berals - cops DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO AN OPINION!!!!!!!

In fact LIE-berals here in Canada- a country Tecumsehbonehead only knows in a superficial way- our LIE-berals are on a great crusade to re-write all our history and turn it into native propaganda!!!!!

LIE-berals believe that sucking up to suicidal native drunks, drug addicts and thieves will keep them in power!!!!


Here is an article illustrating the uncivil war that LIE-beral promotion of their grossly racist policy is spawning. With some comments of my own in brackets):

First Nations leaders say Lakehead University’s choice for interim dean of law school is ‘an insult’

Nishnawbe Aski Nation’s deputy grand chief says Justice George Patrick Smith sentenced Indigenous leaders to prison in 2008 during the community’s fight to protect their traditional territory.

(One kind of has to pity the poor natives- caught as they are between the grandiose but empty and vacuous promises of our LIE-beral overlords and the economic reality of everyday life! Foolish natives think there is substantial support for LIE-beral efforts to buy native votes with insane and costly promises that LIE-berals will never fully honour!)

Smith’s appointment comes just weeks after Angelique EagleWoman, the first female Indigenous dean of a Canadian law school, resigned from her position at Lakehead.

THUNDER BAY, Ont.—First Nations leaders are calling on a northern Ontario university to rescind the appointment of a provincial judge as interim dean of the institution’s law school, saying he sentenced several Indigenous leaders to prison for protecting their lands.

The Nishnawbe Aski Nation’s deputy grand chief calls Justice George Patrick Smith’s appointment at Lakehead University “an insult.”

(It was LIE-beral Jean Chretien as Indian Affairs Minister under PM Pierre Trudeau who encouraged natives to dream big with regard to native land claims! Too bad it as the usual LIE-beral bait and switch- all sizzle and NO steak!)

Deputy Grand Chief Derek Fox says Smith sentenced Chief Donny Morris and five members of the Kitchenumaykoosib Inninuwug Council to prison in 2008 during the community’s fight to protect their traditional territory from mining activity.

Smith’s appointment comes just weeks after Angelique EagleWoman, the first female Indigenous dean of a Canadian law school, resigned. NAN says EagleWoman cited issues of systemic racism within the university for her departure.

(Shall we ask if those issues of systemic racism involve whites unwilling to kow-tow before “native wisdom and instinctive ways of knowing”? Natives have insisted that white history- written by actual witnesses to historic events is less accurate than the native oral history as recited by persons offering testimony about events that occurred long before they were born! Natives scorn the white complaint that such hear-say evidence can be changed at a moments notice by native bigots for reasons of personal profit or spite- leaving NO record and NO witnesses and NO way to challenge deliberate native LIES!)

(Natives see it as “White privilege” that white law makers constantly refer to written records for guidance on legal matters rather than trust the “testimony” of natives who expect to profit nicely if a verdict goes their way! Such native values are behind the move to “decolonize” our college and university records and replace written observations made by whites- with modern native wishful thinking and all this native propaganda is courtesy of encouragement and sponsorship by shameless vote buying LIE-berals !)

A Lakehead spokesperson said in an email that the university would not be commenting immediately on the issue and planned to reach out to Indigenous leaders to discuss the situation.

(Lost in all this LIE-beral propaganda and native arrogance is any question of the competence of the new appointee! None of these propaganda meisters give a rats ass if the guy knows the law- the ONLY IMPORTANT QUESTION for these native and LIE-beral BIGOTS is this: “can the guy be bullied into supporting their racist CRAP”? And since the guy has previously jailed native loud mouths it seems unlikely he will tolerate much overt politically motivated bigotry!)

Morris said he questions how Smith can be an expert in Indigenous law when “he doesn’t understand where we came from.”

“When we look inside our hearts and minds we believe that this is our land,” he said Friday in a release.

(Yes- but Indigenous Law centres on the treaties that were signed and the rights that were negotiated! And of course Chretien has led the LIE-beral charge to throw out all the old rules- and to allow bullying native racists to re-write everything they can- to their advantage- according to what natives figure it is convenient to believe at the time!)

(Natives who question Smith`s legal expertise are using “native speak” meaning they object because the guy wants to be logical and reasonable and will not let natives put words in his mouth!)

“It is an insult for Justice Smith to be appointed to lead an academic institution that prides itself on advancing Indigenous interests, and I call on Lakehead University to immediately rescind this decision,” he said.

(Gosh- I thought Lakehead U- which is a creation of white people anyway- was created to ensure that young people- including native kids- got a good education- including an ability to analyse a situation with logic? When did Lakehead or any other institution of higher learning become a dedicated propaganda centre responsible for promoting racist native views? I guess we can thank LIE-berals for turning our schools into Soviet Pravda style story telling machines! And considering that only 25 percent of natives actually graduate from high school maybe we should be asking if the native whiners have the intellectual ability to comprehend what it is that people like Smith might be teaching?)
I don't think I have ever seen this sort of voting, online or not.
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

I don't think I have ever seen this sort of voting, online or not.

Poor Hoid.....he has his eyes closed so he will not have to see his beloved LIE-beral humiliated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That Toronto police sergeant who unwisely signed his name to the open letter he sent to Toronto mayor Jackass John the Sorry Tory DID NOT say anything that ordinary Cdns would disagree with!!!!!!

Quite the opposite- such sentiments as the sergeant expressed are COMMON among ordinary Cdns!!!!!

The only thing the sergeant did wrong was putting his name to the letter that LIE-berals found so dismaying as it illustrated in detail how ALL LIE-beral policy is FAILING!!!!!

LIE-berals truly believe that shooting the messenger will protect them!!!!!

As for the sergeant- I suspect he will end up listening to a lot of LIE-beral bluster but in the end his letter will be forgotten because if LIE-berals did decide to punish him for speaking bluntly- LIE-berals would further enrage the public!!!!!!

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