The agenda that threatens Canada: Two telltale speeches by Stephen Harper


salviad
#1
Chycho.com - Analysis and discussion about the world we live in.

I have written, at length, about Harper and his Conservatives in the past so I will refrain from regurgitating that information. For those interested, the articles are available at the end of this post .

What is happening right now in Canada is not about the technicalities of the game, but about the way Harper is conducting himself. From him conveniently forgetting to mention to Canadians that in 2004, he tried to form a coalition government with the support of the NDP and the Bloc Quebecois , to his performance, pouncing around, “ angrily denouncing opposition machinations to install a coalition government as illegitimate and undemocratic .”

Harper’s hypocrisy and the way he has behaved should be sending shivers down the spine of even his most hardened supporters.

What follows are two telltale speeches given by Stephen Harper. The first is the plagiarized speech that he gave in 2003 regarding the Iraq war . This is more recent and most will recall the event. The second is “ the text from a speech made by Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, to a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing U.S. think tank, and taken from the council's website .”

Every Canadian should read this speech, especially those who support Harper and his Conservatives. Exactly who do Stephen Harper’s supporters think that they are supporting, and why would they support someone who does not speak for the wellbeing of Canadians, but who’s purpose is to further the agenda of neoconservatives that have infested the governments of many western nations, ours included?

The best way to expose Stephen Harper and his agenda is to use his own words, so what follows are some of his beliefs, statements, and thoughts.

The plagiarized speech heard around the world (3:10)


YouTube - The plagiarized speech heard around the world

Full text of Stephen Harper's 1997 Speech to the Council for National Policy

Ladies and gentlemen, let me begin by giving you a big welcome to Canada. Let's start up with a compliment. You're here from the second greatest nation on earth. But seriously, your country, and particularly your conservative movement, is a light and an inspiration to people in this country and across the world.

Now, having given you a compliment, let me also give you an insult. I was asked to speak about Canadian politics. It may not be true, but it's legendary that if you're like all Americans, you know almost nothing except for your own country. Which makes you probably knowledgeable about one more country than most Canadians.

But in any case, my speech will make that assumption. I'll talk fairly basic stuff. If it seems pedestrian to some of you who do know a lot about Canada, I apologize.

I'm going to look at three things. First of all, just some basic facts about Canada that are relevant to my talk, facts about the country and its political system, its civics. Second, I want to take a look at the party system that's developed in Canada from a conventional left/right, or liberal/conservative perspective. The third thing I'm going to do is look at the political system again, because it can't be looked at in this country simply from the conventional perspective.

First, facts about Canada. Canada is a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it. Canadians make no connection between the fact that they are a Northern European welfare state and the fact that we have very low economic growth, a standard of living substantially lower than yours, a massive brain drain of young professionals to your country, and double the unemployment rate of the United States.

In terms of the unemployed, of which we have over a million-and-a-half, don't feel particularly bad for many of these people. They don't feel bad about it themselves, as long as they're receiving generous social assistance and unemployment insurance.

That is beginning to change. There have been some significant changes in our fiscal policies and our social welfare policies in the last three or four years. But nevertheless, they're still very generous compared to your country.

Let me just make a comment on language, which is so important in this country. I want to disabuse you of misimpressions you may have. If you've read any of the official propagandas, you've come over the border and entered a bilingual country. In this particular city, Montreal, you may well get that impression. But this city is extremely atypical of this country.

While it is a French-speaking city -- largely -- it has an enormous English-speaking minority and a large number of what are called ethnics: they who are largely immigrant communities, but who politically and culturally tend to identify with the English community.

This is unusual, because the rest of the province of Quebec is, by and large, almost entirely French-speaking. The English minority present here in Montreal is quite exceptional.

Furthermore, the fact that this province is largely French-speaking, except for Montreal, is quite exceptional with regard to the rest of the country. Outside of Quebec, the total population of francophones, depending on how you measure it, is only three to five per cent of the population. The rest of Canada is English speaking.

Even more important, the French-speaking people outside of Quebec live almost exclusively in the adjacent areas, in northern New Brunswick and in Eastern Ontario.

The rest of Canada is almost entirely English speaking. Where I come from, Western Canada, the population of francophones ranges around one to two per cent in some cases. So it's basically an English-speaking country, just as English-speaking as, I would guess, the northern part of the United States.

But the important point is that Canada is not a bilingual country. It is a country with two languages. And there is a big difference.

As you may know, historically and especially presently, there's been a lot of political tension between these two major language groups, and between Quebec and the rest of Canada.

Let me take a moment for a humorous story. Now, I tell this with some trepidation, knowing that this is a largely Christian organization.

The National Citizens Coalition, by the way, is not. We're on the sort of libertarian side of the conservative spectrum. So I tell this joke with a little bit of trepidation. But nevertheless, this joke works with Canadian audiences of any kind, anywhere in Canada, both official languages, any kind of audience.

It's about a constitutional lawyer who dies and goes to heaven. There, he meets God and gets his questions answered about life. One of his questions is, "God, will this problem between Quebec and the rest of Canada ever be resolved?'' And God thinks very deeply about this, as God is wont to do. God replies, "Yes, but not in my lifetime.''

I'm glad to see you weren't offended by that. I've had the odd religious person who's been offended. I always tell them, "Don't be offended. The joke can't be taken seriously theologically. It is, after all, about a lawyer who goes to heaven.''

In any case. My apologies to Eugene Meyer of the Federalist Society.

Second, the civics, Canada's civics.

On the surface, you can make a comparison between our political system and yours. We have an executive, we have two legislative houses, and we have a Supreme Court.

However, our executive is the Queen, who doesn't live here. Her representative is the Governor General, who is an appointed buddy of the Prime Minister.

Of our two legislative houses, the Senate, our upper house, is appointed, also by the Prime Minister, where he puts buddies, fundraisers and the like. So the Senate also is not very important in our political system.

And we have a Supreme Court, like yours, which, since we put a charter of rights in our constitution in 1982, is becoming increasingly arbitrary and important. It is also appointed by the Prime Minister. Unlike your Supreme Court, we have no ratification process.

So if you sort of remove three of the four elements, what you see is a system of checks and balances which quickly becomes a system that's described as unpaid checks and political imbalances.

What we have is the House of Commons. The House of Commons, the bastion of the Prime Minister's power, the body that selects the Prime Minister, is an elected body. I really emphasize this to you as an American group: It's not like your House of Representatives. Don't make that comparison.

What the House of Commons is really like is the United States electoral college. Imagine if the electoral college which selects your president once every four years were to continue sitting in Washington for the next four years. And imagine its having the same vote on every issue. That is how our political system operates.

In our election last Monday, the Liberal party won a majority of seats. The four opposition parties divided up the rest, with some very, very rough parity.

But the important thing to know is that this is how it will be until the Prime Minister calls the next election. The same majority vote on every issue. So if you ask me, "What's the vote going to be on gun control?'' or on the budget, we know already.

If any member of these political parties votes differently from his party on a particular issue, well, that will be national headline news. It's really hard to believe. If any one member votes differently, it will be national headline news. I voted differently at least once from my party, and it was national headline news. It's a very different system.

Our party system consists today of five parties. There was a remark made yesterday at your youth conference about the fact that parties come and go in Canada every year. This is rather deceptive. I've written considerably on this subject.

We had a two-party system from the founding of our country, in 1867. That two-party system began to break up in the period from 1911 to 1935. Ever since then, five political elements have come and gone. We've always had at least three parties. But even when parties come back, they're not really new. They're just an older party re-appearing under a different name and different circumstances.

Let me take a conventional look at these five parties. I'll describe them in terms that fit your own party system, the left/right kind of terms.

Let's take the New Democratic Party, the NDP, which won 21 seats. The NDP could be described as basically a party of liberal Democrats, but it's actually worse than that, I have to say. And forgive me jesting again, but the NDP is kind of proof that the Devil lives and interferes in the affairs of men.

This party believes not just in large government and in massive redistributive programs, it's explicitly socialist. On social value issues, it believes the opposite on just about everything that anybody in this room believes. I think that's a pretty safe bet on all social-value kinds of questions.

Some people point out that there is a small element of clergy in the NDP. Yes, this is true. But these are clergy who, while very committed to the church, believe that it made a historic error in adopting Christian theology.

The NDP is also explicitly a branch of the Canadian Labour Congress, which is by far our largest labour group, and explicitly radical.

There are some moderate and conservative labour organizations. They don't belong to that particular organization.

The second party, the Liberal party, is by far the largest party. It won the election. It's also the only party that's competitive in all parts of the country. The Liberal party is our dominant party today, and has been for 100 years. It's governed almost all of the last hundred years, probably about 75 per cent of the time.

It's not what you would call conservative Democrat; I think that's a disappearing kind of breed. But it's certainly moderate Democrat, a type of Clinton-pragmatic Democrat. It's moved in the last few years very much to the right on fiscal and economic concerns, but still believes in government intrusion in the economy where possible, and does, in its majority, believe in fairly liberal social values.

In the last Parliament, it enacted comprehensive gun control, well beyond, I think, anything you have. Now we'll have a national firearms registration system, including all shotguns and rifles. Many other kinds of weapons have been banned. It believes in gay rights, although it's fairly cautious. It's put sexual orientation in the Human Rights Act and will let the courts do the rest.

There is an important caveat to its liberal social values. For historic reasons that I won't get into, the Liberal party gets the votes of most Catholics in the country, including many practising Catholics. It does have a significant Catholic, social-conservative element which occasionally disagrees with these kinds of policy directions. Although I caution you that even this Catholic social conservative element in the Liberal party is often quite liberal on economic issues.

Then there is the Progressive Conservative party, the PC party, which won only 20 seats. Now, the term Progressive Conservative will immediately raise suspicions in all of your minds. It should. It's obviously kind of an oxymoron. But actually, its origin is not progressive in the modern sense. The origin of the term "progressive'' in the name stems from the Progressive Movement in the 1920s, which was similar to that in your own country.

But the Progressive Conservative is very definitely liberal Republican. These are people who are moderately conservative on economic matters, and in the past have been moderately liberal, even sometimes quite liberal on social policy matters.

In fact, before the Reform Party really became a force in the late '80s, early '90s, the leadership of the Conservative party was running the largest deficits in Canadian history. They were in favour of gay rights officially, officially for abortion on demand. Officially -- what else can I say about them? Officially for the entrenchment of our universal, collectivized, health-care system and multicultural policies in the constitution of the country.

At the leadership level anyway, this was a pretty liberal group. This explains one of the reasons why the Reform party has become such a power.

The Reform party is much closer to what you would call conservative Republican, which I'll get to in a minute.

The Bloc Quebecois, which I won't spend much time on, is a strictly Quebec party, strictly among the French-speaking people of Quebec. It is an ethnic separatist party that seeks to make Quebec an independent, sovereign nation.

By and large, the Bloc Quebecois is centre-left in its approach. However, it is primarily an ethnic coalition. It's always had diverse elements. It does have an element that is more on the right of the political spectrum, but that's definitely a minority element.

Let me say a little bit about the Reform party because I want you to be very clear on what the Reform party is and is not.

The Reform party, although described by many of its members, and most of the media, as conservative, and conservative in the American sense, actually describes itself as populist. And that's the term its leader, Preston Manning, uses.

This term is not without significance. The Reform party does stand for direct democracy, which of course many American conservatives do, but also it sees itself as coming from a long tradition of populist parties of Western Canada, not all of which have been conservative.

It also is populist in the very real sense, if I can make American analogies to it -- populist in the sense that the term is sometimes used with Ross Perot.

The Reform party is very much a leader-driven party. It's much more a real party than Mr. Perot's party -- by the way, it existed before Mr. Perot's party. But it's very much leader-driven, very much organized as a personal political vehicle. Although it has much more of a real organization than Mr. Perot does.

But the Reform party only exists federally. It doesn't exist at the provincial level here in Canada. It really exists only because Mr. Manning is pursuing the position of prime minister. It doesn't have a broader political mandate than that yet. Most of its members feel it should, and, in their minds, actually it does.

It also has some Buchananist tendencies. I know there are probably many admirers of Mr. Buchanan here, but I mean that in the sense that there are some anti-market elements in the Reform Party. So far, they haven't been that important, because Mr. Manning is, himself, a fairly orthodox economic conservative.

The predecessor of the Reform party, the Social Credit party, was very much like this. Believing in funny money and control of banking, and a whole bunch of fairly non-conservative economic things.

So there are some non-conservative tendencies in the Reform party, but, that said, the party is clearly the most economically conservative party in the country. It's the closest thing we have to a neo-conservative party in that sense.

It's also the most conservative socially, but it's not a theocon party, to use the term. The Reform party does favour the use of referendums and free votes in Parliament on moral issues and social issues.

The party is led by Preston Manning, who is a committed, evangelical Christian. And the party in recent years has made some reference to family values and to family priorities. It has some policies that are definitely social-conservative, but it's not explicitly so.

Many members are not, the party officially is not, and, frankly, the party has had a great deal of trouble when it's tried to tackle those issues.

Last year, when we had the Liberal government putting the protection of sexual orientation in our Human Rights Act, the Reform Party was opposed to that, but made a terrible mess of the debate. In fact, discredited itself on that issue, not just with the conventional liberal media, but even with many social conservatives by the manner in which it mishandled that.

So the social conservative element exists. Mr. Manning is a Christian, as are most of the party's senior people. But it's not officially part of the party. The party hasn't quite come to terms with how that fits into it.

That's the conventional analysis of the party system.

Let me turn to the non-conventional analysis, because frankly, it's impossible, with just left/right terminology to explain why we would have five parties, or why we would have four parties on the conventional spectrum. Why not just two?

The reason is regional division, which you'll see if you carefully look at a map. Let me draw the United States comparison, a comparison with your history.

The party system that is developing here in Canada is a party system that replicates the antebellum period, the pre-Civil War period of the United States.

That's not to say -- and I would never be quoted as saying -- we're headed to a civil war. But we do have a major secession crisis, obviously of a very different nature than the secession crisis you had in the 1860s. But the dynamics, the political and partisan dynamics of this, are remarkably similar.

The Bloc Quebecois is equivalent to your Southern secessionists, Southern Democrats, states rights activists. The Bloc Quebecois, its 44 seats, come entirely from the province of Quebec. But even more strikingly, they come from ridings, or election districts, almost entirely populated by the descendants of the original European French settlers.

The Liberal party has 26 seats in Quebec. Most of these come from areas where there are heavy concentrations of English, aboriginal or ethnic votes. So the Bloc Quebecois is very much an ethnic party, but it's also a secession party.

In the referendum two years ago, the secessionists won 49 per cent of the vote, 49.5 per cent. So this is a very real crisis. We're looking at another referendum before the turn of the century.

The Progressive Conservative party is very much comparable to the Whigs of the 1850s and 1860s. What is happening to them is very similar to the Whigs. A moderate conservative party, increasingly under stress because of the secession movement, on the one hand, and the reaction to that movement from harder line English Canadians on the other hand.

You may recall that the Whigs, in their dying days, went through a series of metamorphoses. They ended up as what was called the Unionist movement that won some of the border states in your 1860 election.

If you look at the surviving PC support, it's very much concentrated in Atlantic Canada, in the provinces to the east of Quebec. These are very much equivalent to the United States border states. They're weak economically. They have very grim prospects if Quebec separates. These people want a solution at almost any cost. And some of the solutions they propose would be exactly that.

They also have a small percentage of seats in Quebec. These are French-speaking areas that are also more moderate and very concerned about what would happen in a secession crisis.

The Liberal party is very much your northern Democrat, or mainstream Democratic party, a party that is less concessionary to the secessionists than the PCs, but still somewhat concessionary. And they still occupy the mainstream of public opinion in Ontario, which is the big and powerful province, politically and economically, alongside Quebec.

The Reform party is very much a modern manifestation of the Republican movement in Western Canada; the U.S. Republicans started in the western United States. The Reform Party is very resistant to the agenda and the demands of the secessionists, and on a very deep philosophical level.

The goal of the secessionists is to transform our country into two nations, either into two explicitly sovereign countries, or in the case of weaker separatists, into some kind of federation of two equal partners.

The Reform party opposes this on all kinds of grounds, but most important, Reformers are highly resistant philosophically to the idea that we will have an open, modern, multi-ethnic society on one side of the line, and the other society will run on some set of ethnic-special-status principles. This is completely unacceptable, particularly to philosophical conservatives in the Reform party.

The Reform party's strength comes almost entirely from the West. It's become the dominant political force in Western Canada. And it is getting a substantial vote in Ontario. Twenty per cent of the vote in the last two elections. But it has not yet broken through in terms of the number of seats won in Ontario.

This is a very real political spectrum, lining up from the Bloc to reform. You may notice I didn't mention the New Democratic Party. The NDP obviously can't be compared to anything pre-Civil War. But the NDP is not an important player on this issue. Its views are somewhere between the liberals and conservatives. Its main concern, of course, is simply the left-wing agenda to basically disintegrate our society in all kinds of spectrums. So it really doesn't fit in.

But I don't use this comparison of the pre-Civil War lightly. Preston Manning, the leader of the Reform party has spent a lot of time reading about pre-Civil War politics. He compares the Reform party himself to the Republican party of that period. He is very well-read on Abraham Lincoln and a keen follower and admirer of Lincoln.

I know Mr. Manning very well. I would say that next to his own father, who is a prominent Western Canadian politician, Abraham Lincoln has probably had more effect on Mr. Manning's political philosophy than any individual politician.

Obviously, the issue here is not slavery, but the appeasement of ethnic nationalism. For years, we've had this Quebec separatist movement. For years, we elected Quebec prime ministers to deal with that, Quebec prime ministers who were committed federalists who would lead us out of the wilderness. For years, we have given concessions of various kinds of the province of Quebec, political and economic, to make them happier.

This has not worked. The sovereignty movement has continued to rise in prominence. And its demands have continued to increase. It began to hit the wall when what are called the soft separatists and the conventional political establishment got together to put in the constitution something called "a distinct society clause.'' Nobody really knows what it would mean, but it would give the Supreme Court, where Quebec would have a tremendous role in appointment, the power to interpret Quebec's special needs and powers, undefined elsewhere.

This has led to a firewall of resistance across the country. It fuelled the growth of the Reform party. I should even say that the early concessionary people, like Pierre Trudeau, have come out against this. So there's even now an element of the Quebec federalists themselves who will no longer accept this.

So you see the syndrome we're in. The separatists continue to make demands. They're a powerful force. They continue to have the bulk of the Canadian political establishment on their side. The two traditional parties, the Liberals and PCs, are both led by Quebecers who favour concessionary strategies. The Reform party is a bastion of resistance to this tendency.

To give you an idea of how divided the country is, not just in Quebec but how divided the country is outside Quebec on this, we had a phenomenon five years ago. This is a real phenomenon; I don't know how much you heard about it.

The establishment came down with a constitutional package which they put to a national referendum. The package included distinct society status for Quebec and some other changes, including some that would just horrify you, putting universal Medicare in our constitution, and feminist rights, and a whole bunch of other things.

What was significant about this was that this constitutional proposal was supported by the entire Canadian political establishment. By all of the major media. By the three largest traditional parties, the PC, Liberal party and NDP. At the time, the Bloc and Reform were very small.

It was supported by big business, very vocally by all of the major CEOs of the country. The leading labour unions all supported it. Complete consensus. And most academics.

And it was defeated. It literally lost the national referendum against a rag-tag opposition consisting of a few dissident conservatives and a few dissident socialists.

This gives you some idea of the split that's taking place in the country.

Canada is, however, a troubled country politically, not socially. This is a country that we like to say works in practice but not in theory.

You can walk around this country without running across very many of these political controversies.

I'll end there and take any of your questions. But let me conclude by saying, good luck in your own battles. Let me just remind you of something that's been talked about here. As long as there are exams, there will always be prayer in schools.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#2
Thanks, isn't unadjusted history instructive, maybe that's why we don't really get any. As long as there is prayer in school we won't learn any. Harpers a lizard demon for sure
 
salviad
#3
this shows what Harper truly thinks about Canadians:

"I was asked to speak about Canadian politics. It may not be true, but it's legendary that if you're like all Americans, you know almost nothing except for your own country. Which makes you probably knowledgeable about one more country than most Canadians."
 
Trex
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Thanks, isn't unadjusted history instructive, maybe that's why we don't really get any. As long as there is prayer in school we won't learn any. Harpers a lizard demon for sure

He is a blood sucking, fire breathing, DNA mutating and humanity corrupting lizard for sure DB.

By the way did you really re-read his speech as posted above?

Trex
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Trex View Post

He is a blood sucking, fire breathing, DNA mutating and humanity corrupting lizard for sure DB.

By the way did you really re-read his speech as posted above?

Trex

I had to reread it Trex, several severe concusions have left me with less then forty percent of brain function, memory space for the works of Harper is just to expensive for me. I may read it again later this evening. There is a resonably dependable test for psycopathy now Trex. I wonder how this specimin would score?
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by salviad View Post

this shows what Harper truly thinks about Canadians:

"I was asked to speak about Canadian politics. It may not be true, but it's legendary that if you're like all Americans, you know almost nothing except for your own country. Which makes you probably knowledgeable about one more country than most Canadians."

I think that's the least measure of his criminal intent against Canadians, once (if ever) the files are reviewed I'd be will ing to bet he's had some very destructive and cruel programes on his little burners for a long time.
 
salviad
#7
i totally agree db. I couldn't believe that he kept on saying that Canada is not a bilingual country. amazing ... he needs to go ASAP.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by salviad View Post

i totally agree db. I couldn't believe that he kept on saying that Canada is not a bilingual country. amazing ... he needs to go ASAP.

well, you are busily proving his point.....you don't know anything about Canada.

There is one (count 'em) one and only one bilingual province in the nation: New Brunswick.

All the others are unilingual.

And the coalition so beloved of the left, promised the Bloc they would make Federal services in Quebec available ONLY in French. One of the ways (and only one) that they were selling Canada down the river.

A bilingual country?

I don't think so.
 
Adriatik
No Party Affiliation
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

well, you are busily proving his point.....you don't know anything about Canada.

There is one (count 'em) one and only one bilingual province in the nation: New Brunswick.

All the others are unilingual.

And the coalition so beloved of the left, promised the Bloc they would make Federal services in Quebec available ONLY in French. One of the ways (and only one) that they were selling Canada down the river.

A bilingual country?

I don't think so.


Colpy, your allegations of the coaliton promising the Bloc that Federal services in QC would only be in French is a nice, hot, steamy pile of Bull...

Where did you get that info or should I say were you on drugs when you made this up?

Do you honestly think that the Liberals who by the way get most of their Quebec support from Anglo-Quebecers, would promise this? Hardly...

The very idea of someone making that kind of story to prove fanatic points is sickening....

Colpy I remember seeing under your name once before that you are from New Brunswick...

We know that New Brunswick's government is offically bilingual, if your province is that bilingual, you should be able to understand this:

On dirait que la personalité de Harper deteint sur toi et tous ceux qui lui donnent leur support. Les mensonges qui sortent de ta bouche sont disgracieux et sont un isulte pour l'intelligence des gens sur ce forum.... Tu ne peux aucunement prouver tes propos par rapport aux promesses offertes au Bloc par les Liberaux et la NPD...

Arrête les mensonges s'il-te-plait, on en a déja eu assez de Harper.
Last edited by Adriatik; Dec 5th, 2008 at 08:50 PM..
 
salviad
#10
well, you just admitted that at least New Brunswick is bilingual, according to Harper, that's not true, "Canada is not bilingual".
 
Adriatik
No Party Affiliation
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by salviad View Post

well, you just admitted that at least New Brunswick is bilingual, according to Harper, that's not true, "Canada is not bilingual".

Actually, even though I hate Harper with a passion, I still have to admit that Canada is not fully bilingual..

There is only one province that is "officially" bilingual which is New Brunswick but actually only the northern part of New Brunswick is bilingual in application.

Then you have Québec which is not "officially" bilingual but has over 700 000 people that speak fluent French and English. Québec is by far the province with the most bilingual population even though the provincial government only operates in French. Quebec is also by far the province where the most people understand both English and French.

Then you have Ontario, Manitoba and Saskatchewan that have way smaller bilingual populations.

Anything West of Saskatchewan however, is definitely not bilingual.

So in a sense, Harper was right...
 
salviad
#12
as far as i am aware Canada is officially a bilingual country. It's irrelevant if everyone speaks English and French, officially Canada is bilingual.
Official bilingualism in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(i know it's wiki but it does cover the basics)

so my question is, what justifies Harper stating that Canada is not bilingual?
 
Adriatik
No Party Affiliation
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by salviad View Post

as far as i am aware Canada is officially a bilingual country. It's irrelevant if everyone speaks English and French, officially Canada is bilingual.
Official bilingualism in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(i know it's wiki but it does cover the basics)

so my question is, what justifies Harper stating that Canada is not bilingual?


Well I'll gladly answer the question for you.. Harper hates the fact that the west must provide French services... He has always hated it. He doesn't believe in Official bilingualism. However, Trudeau made a mistake by introducing Official bilingualism. The only reason Trudeau introduced this is because he wasn't willing to compromise for Quebec. He thought that by forcing all government services to be offered in both languages that he would satisfy Quebec and that the other provinces would digest it.

Unfortunately his plans didn't go as he had thought. He annoyed the English provinces and it changed nothing for Quebec's position on national unity.

Boy was he wrong.

Yes officially, Canada is bilingual because a piece of paper says it but not in practice.
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#14
Should I feel bad for not belonging to a union?
 
salviad
#15
since Canada is officially a bilingual country, isn't it a bit destructive to have a Prime Minister that doesn't think (or didn't think in 1997) that Canada is bilingual? How is he to unite the country if he doesn't represent a large part of Canada or Canadians?
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by salviad View Post

since Canada is officially a bilingual country, isn't it a bit destructive to have a Prime Minister that doesn't think (or didn't think in 1997) that Canada is bilingual? How is he to unite the country if he doesn't represent a large part of Canada or Canadians?

Canada isn't bilingual and has never been. Call it what you want but it is an English country
 
Vanni Fucci
Free Thinker
#17
Canada is bilingual, and Harper is an idiot.

He obviously had not at that time read our constitution or he wouldn't have made such an inane comment.

Our bilingualism is written into the constitution and specifically into sections 16 through 22 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, in that all federal services are offered in both English and French. New Brunswick has special provisions written into the constitution so that their provincial legislature is also bilingual.

While Quebec is not signatory to the Constitution, they are still bound by it, and could not arbitrarily change federal language laws without a constitutional challenge. Nothing that amends the constitution can be 'granted' by a federal government body, and must be voted upon by the premieres of all the provinces and territories, and must have a 2/3 concensus to amend the constitution.

Then the House and Senate would need to vote on a resolution, and if passed, and with the consent of the legislative assembly of Quebec, the Governor General can make a proclamation amending the Constitution.
 
Inteligento
Conservative
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurka View Post

Should I feel bad for not belonging to a union?

only for yourself
 
salviad
#19
thank you Vanni
 
Machjo
#20
Let's not confuse the nation with persons. And let's not confuse official policy and reality.

Officially, Canada is bilingual. In reality, it's debatable depending on how you define the term. Personally, most French speakers don't know English, and most English-speakers don't know French; though many exceptions exist in the corridor extending from Montreal to Ottawa, along with a few other bilingual pockets across the country.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#21
I have heard it said that since Quebec did not sign the constitution or the charter, that neither documents are valid. It seems to me that if Quebec is not a signatory and the constitution is still valid, then they can't be a part of Canada. And, according to the BNA act, sovereignty was granted to the provinces and that Canada is a confederation of sovereign provinces, not really a country.

I also understand that, according to the BNA act, the federal government was not given any right (or denied the right) to make laws or collect taxes and that the federal government later amended the act to say they can. Now, what gives then the right to amend the BNA act? What gave Trudeau the right to write a constitution and have the Queen approve to have it brought it home without the input or approval of the Canadian electorate?

It seems to me, and I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, that neither the constitution or the government of Canada have any validity or standing in international law. If so, what the hell does Harper think he is doing? He has no power to suspend an illegal parliament because his possition is nothing more than a bit player in a two bit play.

Are there any experts in international law who can refute what I am saying? I'm not saying that any of this is true but this is what I have been told and I find this just a little disturbing. If these alogations have any validity, our entire country and government are a bad dime store novel. We are living in a fiction based on false assumptions.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#22
Quote:

[Adriatik;1024476]Colpy, your allegations of the coaliton promising the Bloc that Federal services in QC would only be in French is a nice, hot, steamy pile of Bull...

Where did you get that info or should I say were you on drugs when you made this up?

Well. it was broadcast on CTV News a week ago, so unless their news people were all on drugs as well........here is where I first posted, and if you look down the thread, you will see other people heard the same news on different media......it is the truth, as far as I know.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/ca...ml#post1019100

In fact, you are the first I have had deny its truth.

Not that it matters.....the Coalition is dead.

Quote:

Do you honestly think that the Liberals who by the way get most of their Quebec support from Anglo-Quebecers, would promise this? Hardly...

I think the Liberals would sell their souls to regain power..........or most of them. The reason the Coalition is dead is some Liberals have found their conscience and their cojones.....and will either not appear on vote day, or vote with the gov't.

Quote:

The very idea of someone making that kind of story to prove fanatic points is sickening....

Perhaps you should check out the facts before you start puking....

Quote:

Colpy I remember seeing under your name once before that you are from New Brunswick...

We know that New Brunswick's government is offically bilingual, if your province is that bilingual, you should be able to understand this:

On dirait que la personalité de Harper deteint sur toi et tous ceux qui lui donnent leur support. Les mensonges qui sortent de ta bouche sont disgracieux et sont un isulte pour l'intelligence des gens sur ce forum.... Tu ne peux aucunement prouver tes propos par rapport aux promesses offertes au Bloc par les Liberaux et la NPD...

Arrête les mensonges s'il-te-plait, on en a déja eu assez de Harper.

[/QUOTE]

Ahhhh....my province is bilingual.....I'm unilingual English.....more proof Canada is NOT a bilingual country....
 
Vanni Fucci
Free Thinker
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

Personally, most French speakers don't know English, and most English-speakers don't know French

Nor are they required to...this has nothing to do with our bilingualism though...

What's apparent is that you think you know the meaning of the term, while in fact you do not.
 
Vanni Fucci
Free Thinker
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Well. it was broadcast on CTV News a week ago, so unless their news people were all on drugs as well........here is where I first posted, and if you look down the thread, you will see other people heard the same news on different media......it is the truth, as far as I know.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/ca...ml#post1019100

In fact, you are the first I have had deny its truth.

I'll be the second...

Bloc would be key partner in coalition government

Quote:

Many of the areas in which the three parties have pledged to work together - such as help for older workers who lose their jobs, dropping the two-week waiting period for employment-insurance payments, and reversing funding cuts for the arts and non-profit local economic development groups - could have been cut and pasted right out of the Bloc's platform.

Not seeing anything about amending language laws here...

I've done searches on several news sites, with a wide range of search criteria, and have not found any report of the coalition agreeing to change language laws.

No one but you has reported this as far as I can tell...

Seems you've latched onto something some conservative has said and held it as gospel...

Maybe you should be more careful when listening to conservative weasles...
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#25
Well mr. adriatic i quess you have never been to Maillardville B.C.

that is west of Sask for your info.

no french population there .
 
Adriatik
No Party Affiliation
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by scratch View Post

Translation:

It would be said that the personality To grip fades on you and all those which give him their support. The lies which leave your mouth are disgraceful and are an insult for the intelligence of people on this forum…. You cannot at all prove your remarks compared to the promises offered to the Bloc by the Liberals and the NDP…

Stop the lies it-you-likes itself, one already had enough of it To grip.


I'm sorry I should have translated my French portion of the post myself. Scratch your translation is pretty good, good job, but it's not exactly perfect...

What I exactly wrote is:


It seems that Harper's personality has stained onto you and all those who support him. The lies coming out of your mouth are disgraceful and are an insult to the intelligence of the people on this forum... You can't at all prove your comments regarding the promise made to the Bloc by the Liberals and NDP.

Please stop the lies, we've already had enough from Harper..
 
Adriatik
No Party Affiliation
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Well. it was broadcast on CTV News a week ago, so unless their news people were all on drugs as well........here is where I first posted, and if you look down the thread, you will see other people heard the same news on different media......it is the truth, as far as I know.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/ca...ml#post1019100

In fact, you are the first I have had deny its truth.

Not that it matters.....the Coalition is dead.



I think the Liberals would sell their souls to regain power..........or most of them. The reason the Coalition is dead is some Liberals have found their conscience and their cojones.....and will either not appear on vote day, or vote with the gov't.



Perhaps you should check out the facts before you start puking....

Ahhhh....my province is bilingual.....I'm unilingual English.....more proof Canada is NOT a bilingual country....[/quote]


Right, you heard on the news that the coalition was going to promise French federal service only in Quebec... Funny, just as Vanni Fucci noticed, there were not reports on various news sites. That would have surely made headlines.

Maybe you heard something on the news about it during a discussion with political panelists and was most likely speculation. Anyway, by now you should understand that you shouldn't believe everything you hear on TV.

I am not the first to deny your lies but if it makes you feel better to believe it, congrats!

I will continue puking since I have checked the facts and have not swallowed these speculative discussions on TV.

It seems that you will believe anything you hear and I guess that's your choice.

The bottom line is that we're going to hear a lot of crap in the next months on TV about parliament, my Bullsh!t filter is standing by...
 
Adriatik
No Party Affiliation
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by scratch View Post

Adriatik,

Actually,

I could not have done it any other way because I wasn't inside your head.

That's what makes translations difficult.

regards scratch


Yes I agree, still good job on your translation..
 
Colpy
Conservative
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Adriatik View Post

Ahhhh....my province is bilingual.....I'm unilingual English.....more proof Canada is NOT a bilingual country....


Quote:

Right, you heard on the news that the coalition was going to promise French federal service only in Quebec... Funny, just as Vanni Fucci noticed, there were not reports on various news sites. That would have surely made headlines.

Maybe you heard something on the news about it during a discussion with political panelists and was most likely speculation. Anyway, by now you should understand that you shouldn't believe everything you hear on TV.

I am not the first to deny your lies but if it makes you feel better to believe it, congrats!

I will continue puking since I have checked the facts and have not swallowed these speculative discussions on TV.

It seems that you will believe anything you hear and I guess that's your choice.

The bottom line is that we're going to hear a lot of crap in the next months on TV about parliament, my Bullsh!t filter is standing by...

[/QUOTE]
Well, It may have been untrue..........I don't know......but it was reported as fact on more than one media outlet, including CTV News. If you go back and take a look at the original thread, you will see that I was not the only one that heard it......and I simply don't doubt that Dion , seeking NOT to be the first Liberal leader in 120 years to fail to be PM, and Layton, who is a complete idiot, would agree to that.......

Do you really think Duceppe is in the Coalition (and yes, I mean IN the coalition, he signed the damned accord), for the good of Canada????????

BTW, I don't appreciate being called a liar by ssome Johnny-Come-lately. I've been around here for awhile, and yes, I'm sort of the resident right wing Conservative gun-toting looney......but much as some here disagree with me, I don't believe any of them would call me "liar".

Apologies cheerfully accepted either here in the public forum, or by PM.
 
Adriatik
No Party Affiliation
#30
Well, It may have been untrue..........I don't know......but it was reported as fact on more than one media outlet, including CTV News. If you go back and take a look at the original thread, you will see that I was not the only one that heard it......and I simply don't doubt that Dion , seeking NOT to be the first Liberal leader in 120 years to fail to be PM, and Layton, who is a complete idiot, would agree to that.......

Do you really think Duceppe is in the Coalition (and yes, I mean IN the coalition, he signed the damned accord), for the good of Canada????????

BTW, I don't appreciate being called a liar by ssome Johnny-Come-lately. I've been around here for awhile, and yes, I'm sort of the resident right wing Conservative gun-toting looney......but much as some here disagree with me, I don't believe any of them would call me "liar".

Apologies cheerfully accepted either here in the public forum, or by PM. [/quote]

The Bloc supports the coaltion but no is not in it you're right. The only reason that the Bloc didn't sign the coalition deal and only accepted to support it is because they weren't going to have cabinet ministers. The coalition knew that if the Bloc had cabinet ministers it would have caused an uproar since people seem the think that Quebecers don't deserve having their representatives in Cabinet, that would be way too dangerous now wouldn't it?

I think that no politician is in a position right now to advance partisan agendas so I hardly can believe that the coalition promised what you claim to have heard.. As far as we all know, the only ones proven to have tried to advance their partisan policies are the Conservatives.

Now let's get something straight, you say that I am nothing more than a Johhny-Come-Lately because I just registered to this forum. Well I hardly believe that the simple fact that you've been around for a while makes a difference. It doesn't make you better than anyone and it definitely doesn't give you more credit.

Now, aparently for believing what you claim seeing on the news only proves that your Bullsh!t filter is not working. I'm a little sorry for calling you a liar but only because you are a victim of the media. However, your further spreading of the lies you heard makes me want to take back my apology..
 

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