This summer may see first ice-free North Pole


petros
+1
#361
Where do skeptics fit in?
 
L Gilbert
#362
Wherever they want, would be my guess.
 
JLM
#363
When I think back to my High School Physics (a couple of hundred years ago) I do recall learning that it takes 80 times as much energy to change state than it does to change the water temp. 1 degree C. Not sure if that has f**K all to do with this.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

There is a prize available for anyone who can determine why it works in some cases and not in others:
Why does hot water freeze faster than cold water?

Definitely..............................the added bit of knowledge!
 
TenPenny
#364
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

One of the original claims of AGW that permanent melting of ice would raise sea levels..

One of the original claims of Christian officials was that the earth was flat.

Your point is what, exactly?
 
gerryh
+1
#365
Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

Well, there's a huge difference between putting warm water in a unit with refridgeration and a set point than there is with warm water in the Arctic.

When you put warm water in the freezer it raises the temperature inside the freezer above the set point, and then the refridgeration kicks in to bring the temp down. With the unit running, warm water will cool faster than cold water.

If you put a cup of warm water and a cup of cold water in an ice bath, the cold water will freeze first. It's not a special property of water, it's a property of refridgeration units that allows warm water to freeze faster.


Wrong, but that's ok, you can't be right all the time, and with keeping with the likes of cabbage and redmonton, I won't bother supplying a link to back myself up. You'll just have to take my word for it because I am smarter than you.
 
L Gilbert
#366
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny View Post

One of the original claims of Christian officials was that the earth was flat.

Your point is what, exactly?

He is trying to say that sea levels aren't any different than they have been. IOW, the world is still flat to him.

http://sealevel.climatecentral.org/

http://sealevel.colorado.edu/

Cool. I just found this. One can compare the effects with existing maps: http://flood.firetree.net/
 
Kakato
#367
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Oh he has a point, and it may apply in some way. But I highly doubt it applied to sea ice.

While I was researching the Mpemba effect, I came across something that I could have sworn I read before, and low and behold...

It's customary to post a link or accreditation when you quote other peoples work...

Why does hot water freeze faster? And other cracking science mysteries | Philip Ball | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Passing off other peoples work as your own, is called plagiarism, and it's frowned on here at CC. It also puts the site at risk.

Ya right,want me to dig up all your instances of copyright infringement?

And in case you did not know,most arctic ice is fresh water,not saltwater.

Maybe you should google before hitting send with info and claims on a place in Canada you have no clue about.

So if warm water freezes faster then cold water(fresh water for cdn bear who has no clue whats in the arctic)then the ice should start building sooner each year,mother nature taking care of herself.
North of Hudsons bay,im my experience doing ice profile for ice roads,we built an inch a day after december 30th in ice thickness.

Nuna engineers will confirm this.They are the experts in building Arctic ice roads.

No link because i'm talking from experience here.
Last edited by Kakato; Jul 15th, 2012 at 04:17 PM..
 
gerryh
+2
#368
Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post


And in case you did not know,most arctic ice is fresh water,not saltwater.


Say what? I think you really need to back this statement. Considering "arctic ice" is frozen Arctic Ocean. It's not the same as Glaciation of Greenland, or the Ice Shelf in Antarctica.
 
CDNBear
+1
#369
Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

Ya right,want me to dig up all your instances of copyright infringement?

Go for it.

Better yet, why don't you go find posts I've made where I post other people work as it were my own.

Quote:

And in case you did not know,most arctic ice is fresh water,not saltwater.

Pack ice is what?

Quote:

Maybe you should google before hitting send with info and claims on a place in Canada you have no clue about.

That's your thing, not mine. You should try and do a better job at it though.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

No link because i'm talking from experience here.

That would explain why you need to post unaccredited material.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Say what? I think you really need to back this statement. Considering "arctic ice" is frozen Arctic Ocean. It's not the same as Glaciation of Greenland, or the Ice Shelf in Antarctica.

Damn you beat me to it! lol.
Last edited by CDNBear; Jul 15th, 2012 at 04:27 PM..
 
Kakato
#370
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Say what? I think you really need to back this statement. Considering "arctic ice" is frozen Arctic Ocean. It's not the same as Glaciation of Greenland, or the Ice Shelf in Antarctica.


Jheeez,wonder where it comes from? North maybe? Like the Arctic?
It cant go into the ground because of the permafrost.

Quote:

The Great Lakes are the largest system of fresh, surface water on earth, containing roughly 18% of the world supply.

 
CDNBear
+1
#371
Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

Jheeez,wonder where it comes from? North maybe? Like the Arctic?
It cant go into the ground because of the permafrost.

What does that have to do with the Arctic Ocean?

Quote:

The Great Lakes are the largest system of fresh, surface water on earth, containing roughly 18% of the world supply.

What do the great lakes have to do with the Arctic Ocean?
 
Kakato
#372
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

What does that have to do with the Arctic Ocean?

What do the great lakes have to do with the Arctic Ocean?

Go tell someone who cares,your not even worth trying to answer anymore.

Some of you folks should take the advice of some other members and mods and attack the message and not the messenger.

Unless you got nothing then by all means go for it.
Some folks need to figure out this is a discussion forum,a lot of you are worse then the politicians in question period,grow up if you want to discuss issues.
 
CDNBear
#373
Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

Go tell someone who cares,your not even worth trying to answer anymore.

Those are questions, not statements.

Maybe the fact that I keep pointing out your glaring errors and mistakes, is the reason you think I'm not worth answering.

Seems to be a common trait amongst the same type of members here, lol.
 
lone wolf
+5
#374  Top Rated Post
Problem is, when the message gets questioned, some messengers tend to take it personal and attack/bully/make accusations/stalk etc....
 
CDNBear
#375
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

Problem is, when the message gets questioned, some messengers tend to take it personal and attack/bully/make accusations/stalk etc....

I'm looking forward to seeing what he digs up in the way of me posting unaccredited works of other people.
 
Kakato
#376
Quote: Originally Posted by zoofer View Post

Ice cap melting? Good news.
Now if we could just fix it so the climate never changes again in a million years I will plant a palm tree on Hans Island.

I miss Zoof,he was the voice of reason.

He would be proud of how this thread was necroed.
 
CDNBear
#377
Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

I miss Zoof,he was the voice of reason.

He would be proud of how this thread was necroed.

I'd be tickled pink to see you dig up a post of mine that contained unaccredited material, being passed off as my own.
 
Kakato
#378
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I'm looking forward to seeing what he digs up in the way of me posting unaccredited works of other people.

Your not worth the time actually,I was just saying I could,I'm sure most of your jpg images are borrowed.

I never passed anything off as my own either that wasent mine,you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel to dirt me,what a loser.
 
CDNBear
#379
Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

Your not worth the time actually,I was just saying I could,I'm sure most of your jpg images are borrowed.

The bulk of them are, which is why I post them by link to the original source.

But that's not really in context is it?

I don't pass off others articles as my own, do I?
 
Kakato
#380
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

The bulk of them are, which is why I post them by link to the original source.

But that's not really in context is it?

I don't pass off others articles as my own, do I?

You should back up your claims if your going to start assuming.
Sorry but I quote from experience,not google or wiki.

And another thread dirtied up by the resident Can Con troll.
I guess you dont want to debate anything eh?

Too funny!
 
CDNBear
#381
Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

Some of you folks should take the advice of some other members and mods and attack the message and not the messenger.

Ummm...

Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

I never passed anything off as my own either that wasent mine,you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel to dirt me, what a loser .

Ya...

Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

I never passed anything off as my own either that wasent mine,

Nope, this is your post...

Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

He's right,the Mpemba effect.

Yet this effect has been attested since antiquity. Aristotle mentions it, as do two of the fathers of modern science, Francis Bacon and René Descartes in the 17th century. The effect is today named after a Tanzanian schoolboy, Erasto Mpemba, who was set the project of making ice cream from milk in the 1960s. The pupils were supposed to boil their milk, let it cool, then put it in the fridge to freeze. But Mpemba worried about losing his space in the freezer, and so put in the milk while it was still hot. It froze faster than the others.

The emphasized part is from a Guardian article.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

You should back up your claims if your going to start assuming.

I already back up my claim that the above post of yours is from a Guardian article.

Quote:

Sorry but I quote from experience,not google or wiki.

Uh huh, lol.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

And another thread dirtied up by the resident Can Con troll.

Yes you have.

Quote:

I guess you dont want to debate anything eh?

I'm trying, but you keep ignoring the questions and attack me.

Quote:

Too funny!

Actually, your behavior's pathetic.
 
Kakato
#382
Ice north of Hudsons bay is mainly freshwater,ask any arctic biologist about dead water,the purest around and it abounds in the arctic,I know this from being there.
Most including you probably has no clue what it is and im not going to tell you either,google it.
I will wait for your answer.
 
JLM
+1
#383
Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

Ya right,want me to dig up all your instances of copyright infringement?

And in case you did not know,most arctic ice is fresh water,not saltwater.

And for a very good reason, a huge amount of the water in the Arctic flows right out of the MacKenzie River and of course that water will freeze before the salty portion. Fresh water freezes at 0C while salt water freezes at about minus 5C.
 
Kakato
#384
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

And for a very good reason, a huge amount of the water in the Arctic flows right out of the MacKenzie River and of course that water will freeze before the salty portion. Fresh water freezes at 0C while salt water freezes at about minus 5C.


Ya,and all the water flowing into Hudsons bay comes mainly from the tundra north near the arctic circle,all fresh water.They tow icebergs to the states from the arctic for a reason.

I have never been to Greenland,farthest north was a few kliks from Devon island and south of Cambridge bay or north of Rankin inlet,you could drink the water off the tundra allmost anywhere.
It was that pure.
 
CDNBear
#385
Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

Ice north of Hudsons bay is mainly freshwater,ask any arctic biologist about dead water,the purest around and it abounds in the arctic,I know this from being there.

You do realize that it doesn't cover the whole Arctic Ocean right?

Quote:

Most including you probably has no clue what it is and im not going to tell you either,google it.

Stop attacking the messenger.

Quote:

I will wait for your answer.

I'm still waiting for you to post some examples of me plagiarizing. How's that coming?
 
Kakato
#386
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

You do realize that it doesn't cover the whole Arctic Ocean right?

Stop attacking the messenger.

I'm still waiting for you to post some examples of me plagiarizing. How's that coming?

Your not worth responding to aside from this response if your just stalking tonight.
Have a good one!

I'm here to discuss things,not play your immature little mind games.
 
CDNBear
#387
Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

Your not worth responding to aside from this response if your just stalking tonight.
Have a good one!

So you don't want to discuss the issue, you just want to troll and attack the messenger.

Why don't you just say so, instead of posting all sorts of false claims to the contrary?

Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

I'm here to discuss things...

Obviously not.
 
Kakato
#388
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

So you don't want to discuss the issue, you just want to troll and attack the messenger.

Why don't you just say so, instead of posting all sorts of false claims to the contrary?

Obviously not.

Go troll somewhere else.
Let us adults discuss things.
You keep dirtying up any thread I post in,everyone can see that,grow up young man.
kids......no respect these days!(RD)
 
CDNBear
+1
#389
Quote: Originally Posted by Kakato View Post

Go troll somewhere else.
Let us adults discuss things.
You keep dirtieng up any thread I post in,everyone can see that,grow up young man.
kids......no respect these days!(RD)

You're attacking the poster, not the post again...

If there was any truth to your post, these questions would have been answered, and the discussion moved forward.

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

You do realize that it doesn't cover the whole Arctic Ocean right?

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

What does that have to do with the Arctic Ocean?

What do the great lakes have to do with the Arctic Ocean?

You were correct though, everyone can see, who the troll really is.
 
gerryh
+3
#390
for kakato's edification.

What is the difference between sea ice and icebergs, glaciers, and lake ice?

The most basic difference is that sea ice forms from salty ocean water, whereas icebergs, glaciers, and lake ice form from fresh water or snow. Sea ice grows, forms, and melts strictly in the ocean. Glaciers are considered land ice, and icebergs are chunks of ice that break off of glaciers and fall into the ocean. Lake ice is made from fresh water and freezes as a smooth layer, unlike sea ice, which develops into various forms and shapes because of the constant turbulence of ocean water.
The process by which sea ice forms is also different from that of lake or river ice. Fresh water is unlike most substances because it becomes less dense as it nears the freezing point. This difference in density explains why ice cubes float in a glass of water. Very cold, low-density fresh water stays at the surface of lakes and rivers, forming an ice layer on the top.
In contrast to fresh water, the salt in ocean water causes the density of the water to increase as it nears the freezing point, and very cold ocean water tends to sink. As a result, sea ice forms slowly, compared to freshwater ice, because salt water sinks away from the cold surface before it cools enough to freeze. Furthermore, other factors cause the formation of sea ice to be a slow process. The freezing temperature of salt water is lower than fresh water; ocean temperatures must reach -1.8 degrees Celsius (28.8 degrees Fahrenheit) to freeze. Because oceans are so deep, it takes longer to reach the freezing point, and generally, the top 100 to 150 meters (300 to 450 feet) of water must be cooled to the freezing temperature for ice to form.

Can you drink melted sea ice?

New ice is usually very salty because it contains concentrated droplets called brine that are trapped in pockets between the ice crystals, and so it would not make good drinking water. As ice ages, the brine eventually drains through the ice, and by the time it becomes multiyear ice, nearly all of the brine is gone. Most multiyear ice is fresh enough that someone could drink its melted water. In fact, multiyear ice often supplies the fresh water needed for polar expeditions. See Salinity and Brine in the Characteristics section for more information.


All About Sea Ice, Introduction :: National Snow and Ice Data Center
 

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