UK Gov In Turmoil & Bexit Mess.


Hoid
#451
Events?

Has there ever been an event?

As far as I can tell the Boris Fiasco is the same deal May tried to make months ago.
 
Blackleaf
#452
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

All he has to do is pass a vote then.

Well he wanted a vote today on his deal - but that was ruined by the Remainer Parliament, so there wasn't one.

Do try to keep up.
 
Blackleaf
#453
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Events?
Has there ever been an event?
As far as I can tell the Boris Fiasco is the same deal May tried to make months ago.

Why's he a fiasco?

And the deal isn't the same as May's.

Maybe people should try doing some research before commenting.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#454
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

If we had a Brexiteer Parliament, Britain would have left on 29th March.

Brexit hasn't happened yet because two PMs have had their efforts scuppered by the Remainer Parliament.

Have you not been following events closely? Pay more attention.

Noisy monkey...
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#455
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

If we had a Brexiteer Parliament, Britain would have left on 29th March.


That's true.


Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Brexit hasn't happened yet because two PMs have had their efforts scuppered by the Remainer Parliament.


But if it's a democracy, and your party in power is Pro Brexit, then why didn't anything pass?


Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Have you not been following events closely? Pay more attention.


I have; again, I think it's more of the fact that you don't get how democracy works.


Quote:

Well he wanted a vote today on his deal - but that was ruined by the Remainer Parliament, so there wasn't one.

Do try to keep up.


If the Remainers, who don't have the leadership, ruined your vote then... you don't have democracy! Fascism! (please, please note the sarcasm)


Quote:

Why's he a fiasco?

And the deal isn't the same as May's.

Maybe people should try doing some research before commenting.


The deal IS similar enough to May's that people that are for Brexit not only made such comments, but the Man of Brexit himself, Nigel, said it shouldn't be voted for.


So perhaps... take your own advice?
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#456

Parliament votes to withhold full approval of Brexit deal, delaying moment of reckoning



The humiliating defeat, however, did not deal a fatal blow to the withdrawal agreement British Prime Minister Boris Johnson negotiated in Brussels. Johnson said he planned to press ahead and seek approval of his Brexit deal in the coming week.

source: WAPO
 
Blackleaf
#457
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

But if it's a democracy, and your party in power is Pro Brexit, then why didn't anything pass?

Because we have a Remainer Parliament.
Quote:

I have; again, I think it's more of the fact that you don't get how democracy works.

Democracy is when you vote in a referendum and that vote is obeyed by our servants in Parliament.
Quote:

If the Remainers, who don't have the leadership, ruined your vote then... you don't have democracy! Fascism!

Correct. That's what I've been pointing out for ages. You're a bit slow on the uptake, aren't you?
Quote:

The deal IS similar enough to May's that people that are for Brexit not only made such comments, but the Man of Brexit himself, Nigel, said it shouldn't be voted for.

Not all Brexiteers are against the deal.

All Remainers are against it, though - because, obviously, Remainers don't want a deal.
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#458
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Because we have a Remainer Parliament.


Then BoJo is a Remainer and his party in power is Remainer?



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Democracy is when you vote in a referendum and that vote is obeyed by our servants in Parliament.


Democracy is also the freedom to protest that vote because citizens feel that referendum was not appropriate for whatever reasons and there were enough inconsistencies that it should be put to a re-vote.



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Correct. That's what I've been pointing out for ages. You're a bit slow on the uptake, aren't you?


Evidently so are you, because... Sarcasm?



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Not all Brexiteers are against the deal.


Enough of them, and important ones at that, to call for a No vote on it. What about their dissenting voices against Brexit, are they suddenly Fascist now? Is Nigel fascist cause he said don't vote for it?



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

All Remainers are against it, though - because, obviously, Remainers don't want a deal.


And for the ones elected to Parliament, that's how THEIR constituents voted, Democratically, for them to do.


You're really having a difficult time getting this, aren't you?
 
Blackleaf
#459
TONY PARSONS Still these dullards in the Commons vote for more dithering, delay and damage to our economy

COMMENT
Tony Parsons
20 Oct 2019
The Sun on Sunday

THEY really don’t get it, do they?

Our MPs increasingly resemble those moronic Extinction Rebellion activists who looned on top of a Tube train in London’s rush hour.

See them cavort and preen! See them faff and fart about!

See the witless prats kick the Brexit can down the road one more time!

Like commuters prevented from going to work, out in the real world millions glare up at their stupid, self-indulgent antics, wanting nothing more than to get on with our lives.

And still these democratically-elected dullards vote for more dithering, delay and unimaginable damage to our economy.

All that stuff about simply wanting to prevent No Deal?

Lies, lies and more lies. They lie to us all the time. One day there will be a mighty reckoning for all their mealy-mouthed lies. But not on Saturday.

There is a great deal on the table. On Saturday, MPs defecated on the table. Classy!

NATIONAL PARALYSIS

Saturday was the chance for MPs to get down from the roof of the stalled Tube train that is Brexit.

Saturday was the day to put the country out of its misery.

Saturday was a chance to end the national paralysis.

Here at long last, shining like a heavenly light, was an exit door out of purgatory. Finally, after all these wretched years, there was an opportunity to get Brexit done.

And the House of Commons blew it. Once more, they placed Parliament above the people. We will never forgive or forget this treachery.

They had a chance to end the divisions that have divided friends, colleagues and family.

To stop our country stumbling like a drooling zombie and to start walking tall and strong as an open, optimistic free-trading global nation.

And oh yes — a chance to honour the result of a referendum that produced the largest vote for anything ever in the oldest democracy in the world.

And they voted for more faffing about. More paralysis. More zombie. How dare they?

Because for the very first time, here was a Brexit that was actually worthy of the name. For all of Theresa May’s hard work, honourable intentions and humiliations she was forced to endure, she never offered a Brexit that was worth having.

Theresa May brought back a Brexit in name only, a Brexit that would have reduced us to a colony, a Brexit that would have effectively kept the UK within the EU while silencing our voice.

But Boris Johnson offered a real Brexit deal and oh, how they squirmed on Saturday, all those eye-swivelling Remaniacs who have fibbed for so long that all they ever wanted was to prevent No Deal.

And they have the nerve to call Boris a liar!

Those democracy-deniers, who dismiss 17.4million of their countrymen and women as thick racist bigots, never looked so woefully out of touch with the mood of the nation as they did on Saturday.

BRITAIN WANT BORIS'S DEAL

Business wants to back Boris’s deal! Workers want it! The head of the Bank of England wants it! Sun readers want it! Figures as wildly diverse as Stuart Rose, who chaired the Remain campaign, and Arron Banks, founder of the hardcore Leave.EU campaign, all want it!

And still they couldn’t bring themselves to do it.

Common sense screamed that there is no better Brexit than the one that was on offer on Saturday.

And still they could not summon the common sense, the common decency, to back this Prime Minister.

But make no mistake, there was far more than Brexit on the line. By blocking the Boris deal, the damage to our democracy has been immeasurable.

But it is not Boris Johnson who will be blamed for this insult. It is not Boris Johnson and his increasingly united Tories who will be punished when Jeremy Corbyn finally stops wetting his incontinence pants and summons the courage for a General Election.

THWARTED AND FRUSTRATED

For too long, the largest vote for anything in British history had been thwarted and frustrated at every turn.

So Saturday was no real surprise.

They have sought to block Brexit with the propaganda of Project Fear.

They have tried to thwart Brexit in the courts.

They have tried to block Brexit by smearing this Prime Minister.

Saturday was just the latest roadblock. Frustrating but, hey, no big deal.

The 17.4million has not gone away. And Brexit will not go away.

And neither will this tousle-haired Prime Minister.

Is the message finally getting through? WE WANT THIS THING OVER.

Saturday was time to move on. They kicked Brexit in the shins. But do the fools really think they killed it?

BREXIT BREAKERS

The DUP, who believe the Boris deal would cut them off from the rest of the UK, have done the Union no favour by siding with Remainers.

The DUP are denying the realities of geography.

Northern Ireland shares a border with the Republic of Ireland. If there is to be no border on the island of Ireland then common sense dictates that there has to be a border SOMEWHERE.

The Boris solution — sticking an invisible border somewhere in the Irish sea — seems ingenious.

It allows free trade to flow in Ireland while allowing Northern Ireland to benefit from the future free trade deals struck around the world by the UK.

If they were of a naturally sunnier disposition, the DUP might even believe they were getting the best of both worlds.

And you couldn’t help reflecting that the socially conservative DUP are very happy to be separate from mainland Britain when it suits them on gay rights, abortion and same sex marriage. Nothing in recent years has weakened the union like the DUP’s thunder-faced opposition to the Brexit that Boris Johnson offered.

For this was the real deal.

And all those who defied it — because they can see no further than the end of their own prejudices, because they care about their career more than their country, because they were afraid of being kneecapped by John McDonnell, because they simply can’t accept Brexit — were woefully out of touch with the mood of our nation.

INSTITUIONAL TREACHERY

It turns the stomach that MPs have scorned this wonderful chance to get Brexit done. But Saturday’s lost battle just makes winning the war all the more inevitable. When the opposition work up the guts to face a General Election, Saturday’s institutional treachery guarantees Boris a landslide.

Brexit now has an historic inevitability about it.

In the end we have no choice but to leave the EU — whatever the cost in friendships, family ties and gold, whatever it does to what Boris Johnson calls the “awesome foursome” of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Because the EU dream of ever-closer union will never be the aspiration of the British.

Once David Cameron had called the referendum, the oldest democracy in the world was bound to honour its result.

Brexit will happen because Brexit has to happen.

This country will never be just another state in a federal Europe.

And ultimately this country will never ignore a democratic vote, or tell its people to have another referendum because they got the answer wrong the first time.

The political pygmies in Westminster have slowed Brexit. But they will never stop it.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/101732...-delay-damage/
 
Hoid
#460
I thought the backstop was a no no

So they go through all this bullshit only to cave in
 
Blackleaf
#461
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

Then BoJo is a Remainer and his party in power is Remainer?
Democracy is also the freedom to protest that vote because citizens feel that referendum was not appropriate for whatever reasons and there were enough inconsistencies that it should be put to a re-vote.
Evidently so are you, because... Sarcasm?
Enough of them, and important ones at that, to call for a No vote on it. What about their dissenting voices against Brexit, are they suddenly Fascist now? Is Nigel fascist cause he said don't vote for it?
And for the ones elected to Parliament, that's how THEIR constituents voted, Democratically, for them to do.
You're really having a difficult time getting this, aren't you?

How many times have I pointed out to you that most MPs are Remainers despite 84% of them having been elected on mandates to deliver Brexit?

84% of the UK's constituencies voted MPs on a manifesto to deliver Brexit.

Most MPs are Remainers MPs of Leave constituencies who are breaking the promise - to deliver Brexit - that they were elected for.

Of the 650 constituencies, 406 voted Leave. Had the referendum been a General Election, Leave would have won in a huge landslide.

And it means that there are hundreds of Remainer MPs who face being booted out by their constituents in the next election because they are not honouring what they were elected to do - deliver Brexit.

You seem to have a hard time grasping this, even though it's simple.

I'll say again: 84% of MPs were elected to deliver Brexit - yet most MPs are breaking the election promise and are trying to scupper Brexit.

Is that finally clear?
 
Hoid
#462
Again - "deliver Brexit" is meaningless.

Nobody knows what it is.
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#463
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

How many times have I pointed out to you that most MPs are Remainers despite 84% of them having been elected on mandates to deliver Brexit?

84% of the UK's constituencies voted MPs on a manifesto to deliver Brexit.

Most MPs are Remainers MPs of Leave constituencies who are breaking the promise - to deliver Brexit - that they were elected for.

Of the 650 constituencies, 406 voted Leave. Had the referendum been a General Election, Leave would have won in a huge landslide.

And it means that there are hundreds of Remainer MPs who face being booted out by their constituents in the next election because they are not honouring what they were elected to do - deliver Brexit.

You seem to have a hard time grasping this, even though it's simple.

I'll say again: 84% of MPs were elected to deliver Brexit - yet most MPs are breaking the election promise and are trying to scupper Brexit.

Is that finally clear?


All right.


Show the links that say all this cause I sure as hell am not taking your word on it.
 
Blackleaf
#464
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Again - "deliver Brexit" is meaningless.
Nobody knows what it is.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QG2SdZvhNKQ
 
Hoid
#465
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

All right.


Show the links that say all this cause I sure as hell am not taking your word on it.

A good idea.

Brownshirt is a bit of a liar.
 
Blackleaf
#466
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

A good idea.
Brownshirt is a bit of a liar.

No, I'm not a liar.

Funny how you liken me to a fascist when I want the EU referendum result to be enacted.

You seem about as bright as a solar eclipse.
 
Hoid
#467
what result?

there is no such thing as Brexit
 
Blackleaf
#468
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

what result?
there is no such thing as Brexit

Brexit will happen. Once nationalists get going, it's very difficult to stop them. They don't stop until it happens.
 
Hoid
#469
something will happen and whatever it happens to be will be called Brexit.

but nobody has a thrusting clue what it will be.
 
Blackleaf
#470
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

something will happen and whatever it happens to be will be called Brexit.
but nobody has a thrusting clue what it will be.

It will be Brexit. A full, actual Brexit.
 
Hoid
#471
No backstop?
 
Blackleaf
#472
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

No backstop?

The backstop has gone, you cretin.

I know Remainers said Boris wouldn't be able to remove it from Theresa's deal but he has done - because he's a highly intelligent man.
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#473
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

That's true.





But if it's a democracy, and your party in power is Pro Brexit, then why didn't anything pass?





I have; again, I think it's more of the fact that you don't get how democracy works.





If the Remainers, who don't have the leadership, ruined your vote then... you don't have democracy! Fascism! (please, please note the sarcasm)





The deal IS similar enough to May's that people that are for Brexit not only made such comments, but the Man of Brexit himself, Nigel, said it shouldn't be voted for.


So perhaps... take your own advice?

You are making the mistake of thinking the split is among party lines .
 
Blackleaf
#474
The big star in the Commons yesterday, apart from Boris, was Theresa.

The former PM likely voted Remain in the referendum but, unlike many Remainers, she loves her country and is a democrat. She tried to deliver Brexit but unfortunately - nice woman that she is - her deal wasn't good enough. I dont think she was trying to scupper Brexit. It's just that she doesn't have the ability of Boris - probably the cleverest politician in Britain right now. She made a long speech to the Commons saying how they must vote for Boris's deal or else they will have betrayed the British people.

She also mentioned our mighty England rugby union team destroying our great rivals Australia in the Rugby World Cup.

It's a shame Theresa wasn't more like this when she was PM:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t7lj9oQEkLw
Last edited by Blackleaf; 9 hours ago at 09:26 PM..
 
Blackleaf
#475
Brexit: UK will leave EU this month, ministers insist

20 October 2019
BBC News



Ministers insist the UK will leave the EU by 31 October, despite a letter sent to Brussels asking for a delay.

Boris Johnson sent the letter - unsigned - after a major setback in the Commons to his Brexit strategy.

But the request was accompanied by a second letter, signed by the PM, saying he believed a delay would be a mistake.

Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said the PM had "proved the doubters wrong" by getting a new deal and he was confident Brexit would still happen on Halloween.

His colleague, Michael Gove, told Sky News' Sophy Ridge the government had "the means and ability" to leave on 31 October.

EU Council President Donald Tusk has acknowledged receipt of the UK's extension request and said he would consult EU leaders "on how to react".

Mr Johnson has spoken to fellow leaders and Mr Tusk, telling them the letter "is Parliament's letter, not my letter".

Labour is accusing the prime minister of "being childlike" by sending a second letter contradicting the first.

The government has vowed to press ahead with the legislation to implement the Brexit deal next week, but Labour says it will seek to amend it - to add additional measures on issues like workers' rights and environmental protections.

Shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer also said his party would support an amendment requiring the deal to be put to another referendum which he believed would inevitably be tabled.

The prime minster had intended to bring his deal to Parliament on Saturday - the first such sitting in the Commons for 37 years - and ask MPs to approve it.

However, MPs instead voted in favour of an amendment withholding approval of the deal until all the necessary legislation to implement it had been passed.

Tabled by Tory MP Sir Oliver Letwin, the amendment was intended to ensure that Mr Johnson would comply with the terms of the so-called Benn Act designed to eliminate any possibility of a no-deal exit on 31 October.

Under that act, Mr Johnson had until 23:00 BST on Saturday to send a letter requesting a delay to the UK's departure - something he did, albeit without his signature.

Mr Letwin told the BBC's Andrew Marr his amendment was "an insurance policy" and now it had passed, he would give his full support to the prime minister's deal.

However, Mr Gove, who as chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster is in charge of no-deal planning, accused those who backed it of voting "explicitly to try to frustrate this process and to drag it out"

He said "the prime minister's determination is absolute" and the government's "determined policy" was to meet the 31 October deadline.

"We know that the EU want us to leave, we know that we have a deal that allows us to leave," he added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50115151
 
Blackleaf
#476
ROBIN HARRIS: Puffed-up Tory popinjays put petty vendettas ahead of our national interest

By Robin Harris For The Mail On Sunday
19 October 2019


Former Conservative MP Oliver Letwin is pictured in Westminster yesterday


Brexit has become a never-ending national crisis for one reason only. It is because this shambolic Parliament will not do its political, constitutional and moral duty. And chief among those to blame are the wreckers led by ex-Tories Oliver Letwin, Dominic Grieve and Philip Hammond.

They have just one hope of entering the history books: with little or nothing to show for their lengthy political careers, they think they can achieve stardom by stopping Brexit.

Taking their ground on the principle ascribed to the great Anglo-Irish statesman, Edmund Burke, they believe that MPs owe the electors not their obedience but their judgment. An arguable point – but an irrelevant one. For they have no judgment.

Despite his naive charm – now wearing thin – Sir Oliver has never demonstrated any kind of judgment or practical common sense in anything.

Only he could now argue, and probably even believe, that he is supporting Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s deal by delaying it.

Yet the practical effect is that the deal is now open to being subverted by further delays and demands for a second referendum.


Ex-Tories Dominic Grieve (left) and Philip Hammond (right) are also among the wreckers

When it comes to former Attorney General Grieve and ex-Chancellor Hammond, the stench of bitterness and rancour is there for all to see.

They were shamefully putting their personal vendettas above our country’s national interest.

It is possible that some further dose of national humiliation will yet be forced on Britain by the parliamentary wreckers before the Brexit trauma ends.

The tutors of today’s Letwins, Grieves and Hammonds are such anti-Thatcher Conservative grandees as Sir John Major, Michael Heseltine and Ken Clarke. And their behaviour is roughly what one would expect.

If the grandees’ rhetoric is more extreme and the ambitions more bizarre than in the past – in Mr Clarke’s case, it seems, to become an anti-Brexit Prime Minister without a sliver of legitimacy or scintilla of a mandate – one should put this down to the fact that in today’s politics almost anything goes.

For Sir John – a former Prime Minister who himself once sought a prorogation of Parliament for dubious political ends – to testify in court against the actions of his successor marked not just gross hypocrisy but a form of derangement.

To frustrate Brexit, it seems, any disgraceful behaviour is condoned. No one suggests, for instance, that it constitutes a kind of treason to plead, as a group of Remainer MPs did, with the European Union to reject the PM’s proposals at a moment of grave national crisis.

But, quite unexpectedly for most Westminster watchers, a genuine national political hero has emerged – shaggy, impulsive, flawed, but transparently patriotic and with the essential attributes of courage, luck and shrewdness that constitute practical statesmanship.

To be numbered among the greats – such as Margaret Thatcher – Boris Johnson will have to last a few more years.

But already in a very special sense he is her successor because he has been grappling with the problem of Europe that she knew she never mastered – to her regret. Describing in her memoirs that bitter EU Rome summit of October 1990 – the last before she was thrown out of office – when Brussels decided to press ahead with political and economic union under what would become the Maastricht Treaty, she writes: ‘They were not interested in compromise. My objections were heard in stony silence.

‘I now had no support. I just had to say no.’

Had Mrs Thatcher remained in office, and not been replaced by the malleable and mediocre John Major, she would have vetoed that process of ever greater union, and Britain would not have been faced with the present traumas.

Further European integration would have had to take place under new treaties. Mrs Thatcher, though, was ousted by plotters – and here the continuity becomes evident.

So it is not just since 2016 that the British people have been arguing about Europe. It began in the late 1980s under Mrs Thatcher, who in retirement concluded that we must leave altogether, and it has continued increasingly loudly and bitterly ever since.

Apart from the puffed-up political popinjays in Parliament, everyone else is by now desperately tired of it all.

To ordinary people, the referendum result was decisive. Whichever way they voted, most just want it done, and to move on to other things.

Opinion polls confirm this – if anything they suggest a strengthening in Brexit support and a wide and growing degree of acceptance of a No-Deal Brexit, if that finally proves necessary.

Mr Johnson’s proposed deal will, therefore, certainly play well in the country as Britain gears up for an early General Election.

The immediate future, depending on the antics of parliamentary poseurs, on uncertain parliamentary arithmetic and on the shameless partisanship of Speaker John Bercow, is unpredictable.

The PM’s deal may or may not, this time round, survive. But the British people do in the end have the final say.

And when they speak, it looks increasingly likely that Mr Johnson will be returned as Prime Minister with a working majority and a mandate to restore the standing of a sovereign Britain.



ROBIN HARRIS was Margaret Thatcher's former speechwriter, policy adviser and biographer

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...-interest.html
 
Blackleaf
#477
We will never forgive Oliver Letwin: Howl of rage from MP's Leave-voting constituency after he torpedoed Brexit



Rebel alliance leader Sir Oliver Letwin faced a furious backlash from his Leave-voting constituency on Friday for thwarting Boris Johnson's Brexit deal. Voters in his West Dorset seat voiced disbelief that their MP, who is standing down at the next General Election, had led the move to delay Brexit yet again. Leave-voting Tory candidate for the seat Chris Loder also claimed residents were even asking if Sir Oliver - who now sits as an independent MP - had in fact 'changed allegiances' and was now backing the openly anti-Brexit Liberal Democrats.