Four more Brexit myths propagated by Remainers that need to be busted


Blackleaf
#1
Here are four disingenuous Remainer fabrications that you can expect to be promulgated widely in the media in the coming days...

Four more Brexit myths propagated by Remainers that need to be busted


9th October 2019
BrexitCentral



Written by Dr Sean McGlynn

Dr Sean McGlynn is a university lecturer and a Fellow of the Royal Historical Society who has written widely on EU matters.


Following my recent piece busting the Remainer myth that “Brexit has caused a national crisis”, here are four further disingenuous fabrications that you can expect to be promulgated widely in the media in the coming days.

1. Another referendum is the democratic response to the crisis

Note that this ‘solution’ comes as a result of the mythical, fabricated “Brexit crisis” I wrote about previously. The flagrant dishonesty of calling for another referendum is appalling; any future one would constitute a blatant abuse of democracy. What would make the referendum of 2016 invalid and the next one valid? The simple answer is ‘nothing’.

Of course, this is the choice of the anti-democratic EU: any previous national referendum that did not produce the outcome our overlords in Brussels desired was ignored with countries made to vote again, something for which various previous leaders of Ireland, Denmark and France should be ashamed of themselves.

The Remainer Fundamentalists patronisingly tell us that “we are now all better informed about Brexit” (Orwellian Newspeak for being more softened up by Remainer propaganda). Again, we are in exclusionary epistocratic territory. The great fallacy of this is exposed by the de haut en bas of those very same people who condemned the supposedly knuckle-dragging, xenophobic, racist, working-class Brexiteers as being too thick to know what they were voting for. Now these enlightened ones want the same Morlock voters to pass judgment on the mind-boggling minutiae of international trade law and foreign policy implications.

Since 1973 there have been 13 national or regional referendums in the UK. Five of these were on devolution for Scotland (1979, 1997) and Wales (1979, 1997, 2011) and another was on Scottish independence (2014) – all sharing the common Brexit theme of regaining more autonomy from a larger, neighbouring political entity. Yet how many of these were followed after the result with immediate and sustained demands for a second referendum from leading figures in the Establishment? Quite.

The most dishonest argument for another referendum is: “What can be wrong with asking the people to express their democratic will?” Apart from the obvious answers that the people have already expressed their will and that a continuous loop of referendums would ensure no democratic action would ever be taken, there is something at play here which I term democratic democracide. Morphine is an essential tool in serious health matters; an overdose of it will kill the patient. Democratic democracide is similarly the murder of democracy through a deliberately applied overdose – as a second referendum would be. That’s not an issue if one’s only concern about democracy seems to be that there is that there is too much of it in the first place. It’s reminiscent of Bismarck in late nineteenth-century Germany, when he attested that he would “ruin parliamentarianism by parliamentarianism”.

2. The people didn’t vote for No Deal

This is an omniscient opinion of Remainer Fundamentalists who claim they know what the electorate thinks in the privacy of the voting booth. Selective amnesia applies again here. It’s as if Project Fear never happened. One of the most remarkable aspects of the Remain campaign was the relentless (and still ongoing) outpouring of catastrophism that would befall Britain if we leave the EU. All manner of economic disasters (and even World War III) was thrown into the media mix. The apocalyptic horrors of being out of the Customs Union, out of the Single Market and the prospects of No Deal were comprehensively included in the Project Fear message.

And here is another example of their convenient selective amnesia. In June 2017 the House of Commons voted 3:1 against a ‘soft Brexit’. And page 36 of the Tory manifesto for the 2017 election states: “No deal is better than a bad deal for the UK”.

The cynical disingenuousness of the Establishment is breath-taking here. The government of the day, headed by Prime Minister Theresa May and Chancellor Philip Hammond, refused to make sufficient preparations for a no-deal Brexit, thereby making any such eventual scenario more traumatic than it need be, while at the same time ensuring that most MPs would not vote for it the Commons. A perfect piece of self-fulfilling sabotage.

3. We need to compromise to heal the divisions caused by Brexit

While this sounds all sweet and reasonable, it actually means Remain lost the vote but Fundamentalists won’t accept the result. In fact, in many ways, I am naturally inclined to the position of compromise: would it not reflect the closeness of the referendum result?

But referendums – and politics – don’t work like that. If Party A were to win the next general election with 52% of the vote, does that mean they would implement only 52% of their own policies and 48% of the policies of Party B and Party C? Of course not. There are arguments that can be made for a PR voting system but, for good or ill, we don’t have such a system for our national politics.

Remainer Fundamentalists love to express their dismay and anguish by claiming that Brexit has caused massive divisions in the country. Again, this myth is either an ignorant or deliberate distortion of the truth. There is one thing and one thing only that has caused the country’s divisions: the refusal of so many to accept the results of the democratic process.

Do we go on and on about how divided the country is after a general election? Or how the election has caused massive rifts within the country? No – because the vast majority of people recognise that the democratic procedure has taken its course. Again, this is just further evidence of the contempt Remainer Fundamentalists hold for democracy.

4. We want the softest of Brexits – or no Brexit at all – to protect the working classes

And here we are back to our political classes knowing what is better for ‘ordinary’ people than the people themselves. Yes, all those Remainer Fundamentalist MPs who have made a linear progression from A-Level Politics to Parliament, avoiding close contact with, or delay in, the real world, now quarantined in their Westminster bubble as they plan their next career move (with the EU providing that ever-present silk safety net for failed politicians) – yes, they understand the real-life struggles of “ordinary” people better than the people themselves. Of course, they occasionally come into contact with their constituents; but any who do not share the rose-tinted views of their MP can simply be dismissed as ignorant, bigoted and wrong.

One of the most egalitarian and touching points about the Referendum is that, for once, every single vote mattered equally. (Well, apparently, anyway.) David Cameron, the Prime Minister who initiated the plebiscite, promised that Parliament would honour the vote: the decision of the people would be implemented, he told us; it was the choice of the voters, not of politicians, Cabinet Ministers and MPs. Maybe he even meant it – but how wrong he was. If MPs take the line of protecting their constituents from their choices, they are infantilising them. In ignoring the voice of voters, they are denying them the dignity of being heard.

And, of course, they are crushing the very democracy they are meant to protect.

We are genuinely in a position where democracy is in great peril in this country. 45 years of EU “membership” has so corrupted our political classes and inured them to anti-democratic erosion, that at this moment in time over half of Parliament is happily and actively engaging in suppressing democracy in Britain. There can be no stronger argument for leaving the EU.

https://brexitcentral.com/four-more-...-to-be-busted/
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#2
Will you damn Limeys shit or get off the pot.
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#3
The problem with this article, Blackie, is that it assumes these are myths.


To some people in the British public, these aren't myths but are very real issues.


That's a problem Exiters have, is taking their genuine concerns and basically saying "too bad, fuk off".


If Exiters could ally those fears, there MIGHT not be so much of an issue. But no one HAS, not really, because they're still an issue.


The fact that number 3 - comprise - is an issue just PROVES the issue. Brexiters don't give one tiny glob of shyte about anything other than they won and they want what they want and they want it now, it doesn't matter how the rest of the country is.
 
MHz
#4
You will still be making threads about this is 2040.
 
Blackleaf
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

The problem with this article, Blackie, is that it assumes these are myths.
To some people in the British public, these aren't myths but are very real issues.
That's a problem Exiters have, is taking their genuine concerns and basically saying "too bad, fuk off".
If Exiters could ally those fears, there MIGHT not be so much of an issue. But no one HAS, not really, because they're still an issue.
The fact that number 3 - comprise - is an issue just PROVES the issue. Brexiters don't give one tiny glob of shyte about anything other than they won and they want what they want and they want it now, it doesn't matter how the rest of the country is.

Crazy stuff.

Why should the Brexiteers compromise with the Remainers? The Remainers lost. Do you think the Remainers would have been willing to compromise with the Brexiteers had the Remainers won, and come up with a compromise so that, rather than being fully inside the EU, we are now partially outside it instead so we are only a partial member? Because I can't see it.

And as the guy points out in the article, the Brexiteers compromising with the Remainers would be highly unusual. How many national elections and referenda do you see around the world in which the winning side compromises with the losing side? It just doesn't happen. Did Trudeau and his party make loads of compromises to the Opposition when Trudeau won the election?

Anti-Brexiters wanting Brexiteers to make compromises is making a demand of Brexiteers that no other people are demanded to do Had the Remainers won, I doubt there'd be a huge demand on them to make compromises.
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Crazy stuff.

Why should the Brexiteers compromise with the Remainers?


Are you freakin' serious???


The fact this issue has your country ripping itself apart should be enough reason.


Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

The Remainers lost. Do you think the Remainers would have been willing to compromise with the Brexiteers had the Remainers won, and come up with a compromise so that, rather than being fully inside the EU, we are now partially outside it instead so we are only a partial member? Because I can't see it.


If the Remainers had won, and the country was pulling itself apart like it is now, then YES, I'd be for both sides trying to compromise then, too. Would it happen? I don't know, but what I do know is that THIS right now is happening, and compromise at least would be something.

Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

And as the guy points out in the article, the Brexiteers compromising with the Remainers would be highly unusual. How many national elections and referenda do you see around the world in which the winning side compromises with the losing side? It just doesn't happen. Did Trudeau and his party make loads of compromises to the Opposition when Trudeau won the election?


Trudeau winning an election is NOT the same as Britain leaving the E-fukin-U. Comparing the two is idiotic.


The closest we have to something like it is the Quebec Referendum. Powers in Quebec wanted to leave Canada, they put it up to a provincial vote, they lost. And still, the Canadian Government moved to ensure conditions under a situation repeat would be better specified, but they DID try to compromise by giving Quebec "distinct status" to make them feel special.


So overall, we did something to at least correct a mess of a situation should it return. Something your country hasn't even taken a look at.

Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Anti-Brexiters wanting Brexiteers to make compromises is making a demand of Brexiteers that no other people are demanded to do Had the Remainers won, I doubt there'd be a huge demand on them to make compromises.


And I claim utter BS at that. Had the Brexiters lost, y'all would have thrown a shytefit enough that things would be a mess but in the other direction and... well we can always 'suppose' what would have happened next.


Hopefully a clearer question about leaving and what leaving would mean for one.
 
Blackleaf
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

Are you freakin' serious???


The fact this issue has your country ripping itself apart should be enough reason.


Do you think the Remainers would compromise had they won, and take us partially out of the EU? I doubt it.


And the country isn't "ripping itself apart" - not anymore than it does after a General Election. Most people just want the government to get Brexit done.


Quote:

and compromise at least would be something.

The Leavers won the referendum and that means there should be nothing less than a full withdrawal from the EU Empire, which would also honour the mandate that the Government was democratically elected for. This Government was electeed democraticallly to deliver Brexit, NOT to deliver BRINO (Brexit In Name Only) to please the Remoantards.


Quote:

Trudeau winning an election is NOT the same as Britain leaving the E-fukin-U. Comparing the two is idiotic.

So you've proved my point: You don't want whoever wins a Canadian election to compromise with the losers yet you demand that bizarre and unreasonable and undemocratic scenario from the Brexiteers.


Quote:

The closest we have to something like it is the Quebec Referendum. Powers in Quebec wanted to leave Canada, they put it up to a provincial vote, they lost. And still, the Canadian Government moved to ensure conditions under a situation repeat would be better specified, but they DID try to compromise by giving Quebec "distinct status" to make them feel special.

Well that was such a close result. The No side only won by 54,288 votes, quite election the comprehensive victory by the Leavers, who won by almost 1.3 million votes.


Quote:

And I claim utter BS at that. Had the Brexiters lost, y'all would have thrown a shytefit enough that things would be a mess but in the other direction and... well we can always 'suppose' what would have happened next.

Well, the thing is nationalists never give up, even if they lose. We saw that in Canada where the Quebecans held a second referendum 15 years after they lost the first one. We're seeing it in the UK where the Scotch nationalists are still seeking independence and wanting a second referendum despite losing the one in 2014. Nationalists tend not to give up their fight for freedom and sovereignty after merely losing a referendum.




Quote:

Hopefully a clearer question about leaving and what leaving would mean for one.

We all knew what we were voting for. Contrary to what many think, the 17.4 million Leave voters aren't stupid and thick. We're all people who are well versed up of how the EU works and its undemocratic neighbour and how Britain would be better off out as a sovereign state once more - this is often knowledge built up over years, not just several weeks over a referendum campaign. And, even if we are, why would that change in a second referendum? We'd still remain stupid and think and blindly vote Leeave without thinking.
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Do you think the Remainers would compromise had they won, and take us partially out of the EU? I doubt it.


I think if it was a close vote the government - at least those who were pro-Brexit - would force the government to make concessions...


Or have called for another national question on the issue.



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

And the country isn't "ripping itself apart" - not anymore than it does after a General Election. Most people just want the government to get Brexit done.


At this point, yes, because suspending things for so long has made people tired of the issue. That said, if you're country isn't divided over this, and it wasn't ripping itself apart beforehand then what the hell would you call all the shit that was going on, High Tea???



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

The Leavers won the referendum and that means there should be nothing less than a full withdrawal from the EU Empire,


I actually agree.


Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

which would also honour the mandate that the Government was democratically elected for.


Agree with this too.


Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

This Government was electeed democraticallly to deliver Brexit, NOT to deliver BRINO (Brexit In Name Only) to please the Remoantards.


And this.


The issue was HOW the decision was arrived at, the questions about it and the fact your country wasn't PREPARED for a Leave vote, and STILL isn't prepared for a Leave date, even after so long. If anything, Britain proved what happens when what people think is a simple question, ISN'T so simple.



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

So you've proved my point: You don't want whoever wins a Canadian election to compromise with the losers yet you demand that bizarre and unreasonable and undemocratic scenario from the Brexiteers.


I said this has no connection to an election, and it doesn't. And that you compare the two proves to me that yeah, you ARE thick.



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Well that was such a close result. The No side only won by 54,288 votes, quite election the comprehensive victory by the Leavers, who won by almost 1.3 million votes.


That's not the point, Blackie... the point is that even though the No side lost, Canada STILL tried to compromise with Quebec (to the ever pissed attitudes of the rest of us) just to keep them happy.



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Well, the thing is nationalists never give up, even if they lose. We saw that in Canada where the Quebecans held a second referendum 15 years after they lost the first one. We're seeing it in the UK where the Scotch nationalists are still seeking independence and wanting a second referendum despite losing the one in 2014. Nationalists tend not to give up their fight for freedom and sovereignty after merely losing a referendum.


Just like the Brexiteers would have kept fighting if they had lost. But they didn't, they won, and the Remainers are fighting for what they think is a better Britain.


No effin difference.





Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

We all knew what we were voting for.


HAHA! Despite many, many reports of what people after they voted said???



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Contrary to what many think, the 17.4 million Leave voters aren't stupid and thick.


Contrary to what you keep assuming, I didn't think they were.


Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

We're all people who are well versed up of how the EU works and its undemocratic neighbour and how Britain would be better off out as a sovereign state once more - this is often knowledge built up over years, not just several weeks over a referendum campaign.


Good for you, there were others who were NOT as informed and because of the ****ed up wording of the question, THOUGHT they were voting to stay and instead voted to leave. It also didn't help that fearmongering on both sides added to the confusion.


Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

And, even if we are, why would that change in a second referendum? We'd still remain stupid and think and blindly vote Leeave without thinking.


At this point a second referendum would be stupid if only because of Brexit fatigue, and even those who might have wanted to remain would vote leave now just to shut up the Brexiteers.


Really, the amount of ignorance you have on the issue from your fellows British people is just amazing. Do you honestly bubble yourself that much or is this just plain ignorance on your part?
 
Blackleaf
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

I think if it was a close vote the government - at least those who were pro-Brexit - would force the government to make concessions...

How?
Quote:

Or have called for another national question on the issue.

We were told before the referendum that the result would be implemented and that it would be a once in a generation decision.

Quote:

At this point, yes, because suspending things for so long has made people tired of the issue. That said, if you're country isn't divided over this, and it wasn't ripping itself apart beforehand then what the hell would you call all the shit that was going on, High Tea???

Brexit should have been implemented over six months ago. The fact that all this is still going on now is the fault of the Remainers.

Quote:

The issue was HOW the decision was arrived at, the questions about it and the fact your country wasn't PREPARED for a Leave vote, and STILL isn't prepared for a Leave date, even after so long.

The decision was arrived at simply because the people were asked should we leave the EU Empire or escape from it and most widetly decided to escape.

As for saying we aren't prepared to leave, how do you know this?
Quote:

I said this has no connection to an election, and it doesn't. And that you compare the two proves to me that yeah, you ARE thick.

I think Trudeau should make lots of concessions with the Opposition to keep them happy.
Quote:

That's not the point, Blackie... the point is that even though the No side lost, Canada STILL tried to compromise with Quebec (to the ever pissed attitudes of the rest of us) just to keep them happy.

That was a narrow victory, not a comprehensive one like the Leavers had.
Quote:

Just like the Brexiteers would have kept fighting if they had lost. But they didn't, they won, and the Remainers are fighting for what they think is a better Britain.

They are a bunch of anti-democrats who refuse to recognise the democratic decision the people made.

Disgraceful!

Quote:

HAHA! Despite many, many reports of what people after they voted said???

What reports? And how many - are there nearly 17.4 million of them or four or what?

If anything, it's those who voted Remain who didn't know what they were voting for. Nobody knows if the EU is still going to be around in ten years' time and, if it is, what it'll be like. For example, many Remain voters would have voted in the wrong belief that there isn't going to be an EU army, a belief fed to them by lying Remainer politicians during the referendum campaign.

Quote:

because of the ****ed up wording of the question, THOUGHT they were voting to stay and instead voted to leave.



Quote:

Really, the amount of ignorance you have on the issue from your fellows British people is just amazing.

What condescending arrogance!

"You're all stupid and thick! Stay away from the polling booths!"

On the contrary, most Britons are much more clued up as to the real nature of the EU and of life within it than you and most Canadians are.

You are the ignorant ones, not Leave voters.
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

How?


By demanding a new referendum, because if it was close, there'd be some excuse to do another one?



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

We were told before the referendum that the result would be implemented and that it would be a once in a generation decision.


It should have been (so far it is), that doesn't mean it wasn't a ****ed up event.




Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Brexit should have been implemented over six months ago. The fact that all this is still going on now is the fault of the Remainers.


Partly agree. It should have been done six months ago. The reason it's not is partly on Remainers and partly on Brexiteers.




Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

The decision was arrived at simply because the people were asked should we leave the EU Empire or escape from it and most widetly decided to escape.


It was not that simple, not from all I've heard about it.


Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

As for saying we aren't prepared to leave, how do you know this?


Brexit should have been implemented over six months ago. If you were prepared to leave, you'd be gone by now; duh.



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

I think Trudeau should make lots of concessions with the Opposition to keep them happy.


*headdesk*


Actually, I agree, that's how it should be. It's why I prefer a minority government over a majority. It promotes compromise more often.



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

That was a narrow victory, not a comprehensive one like the Leavers had.


Not. The. Point.



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

They are a bunch of anti-democrats who refuse to recognise the democratic decision the people made.

Disgraceful!


Your opinion.




Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

What reports? And how many - are there nearly 17.4 million of them or four or what?


https://www.theguardian.com/politics...g-leave-brexit


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...-more-divided/


https://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/news...-vote-13577652


And interestingly...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7113336.html


Now granted I'm sure there's many reports of people who don't regret it. That's not the point. Point is, there are thousands who do; what about their "Democratic" voices?



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

If anything, it's those who voted Remain who didn't know what they were voting for. Nobody knows if the EU is still going to be around in ten years' time and, if it is, what it'll be like. For example, many Remain voters would have voted in the wrong belief that there isn't going to be an EU army, a belief fed to them by lying Remainer politicians during the referendum campaign.


See above.


Although I do agree in part, no one knows if the EU will be a thing in ten years.



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post


Denial!



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

What condescending arrogance!


Coming from the King of it, that says a lot!


Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

"You're all stupid and thick! Stay away from the polling booths!"


No, I said YOU, YOU specifically, not other Britains. The fact YOU think you're right and alllll others are wrong is the arrogance.


Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

On the contrary, most Britons are much more clued up as to the real nature of the EU and of life within it than you and most Canadians are.

You are the ignorant ones, not Leave voters.


I agree, they likely are, but YOU insist you know even more than those Britains which, again, the arrogance is yours.
 
Blackleaf
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

By demanding a new referendum, because if it was close, there'd be some excuse to do another one?
It should have been (so far it is), that doesn't mean it wasn't a ****ed up event.
Partly agree. It should have been done six months ago. The reason it's not is partly on Remainers and partly on Brexiteers.
It was not that simple, not from all I've heard about it.
Brexit should have been implemented over six months ago. If you were prepared to leave, you'd be gone by now; duh.
*headdesk*
Actually, I agree, that's how it should be. It's why I prefer a minority government over a majority. It promotes compromise more often.
Not. The. Point.
Your opinion.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...g-leave-brexit
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...-more-divided/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/news...-vote-13577652
And interestingly...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7113336.html
Now granted I'm sure there's many reports of people who don't regret it. That's not the point. Point is, there are thousands who do; what about their "Democratic" voices?
See above.
Although I do agree in part, no one knows if the EU will be a thing in ten years.
Denial!
Coming from the King of it, that says a lot!
No, I said YOU, YOU specifically, not other Britains. The fact YOU think you're right and alllll others are wrong is the arrogance.
I agree, they likely are, but YOU insist you know even more than those Britains which, again, the arrogance is yours.

If I thought Remainers were right I would have voted Remain. But I'm a Leaver, so of course I think they're wrong.

That's democracy for you.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

If I thought Remainers were right I would have voted Remain. But I'm a Leaver, so of course I think they're wrong.

That's democracy for you.

That's a religious mind for ya.
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

That's a religious mind for ya.

No if his side lost the referendum he would have shaken his head in disgust , and continued on with his life .
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

If I thought Remainers were right I would have voted Remain. But I'm a Leaver, so of course I think they're wrong.

That's democracy for you.


Ugh, you really are thick...