Cuts in the School System


JLM
#1
I just heard on the news that one of the school districts in B.C. is in dire financial straits and will be laying off staff and reducing the length of the school year by ten days. Do you see other alternatives to this? Are the school years too short already? Would reducing everyone's salary by 10% be a better solution? Have teachers gotten too greedy? What do you think?
 
Machjo
#2
As for teachers' salaries, that's a hard call. We can't just assume they're overpaid, yet we can't just assume they're underpaid either.

As long as they're government employees with a strong teachers' union to back them up, it's hard to tell what the real free market value of these teachers really is. I'd say adopt the Swedish model on that front and introduce a school voucher programme. That way, the free market could determine their real free market value more easily. This would also reveal whether the problem is with teachers' salaries or whether it has to do with lack of funding. If let's say we switch to the voucher system and we see teacher's salaries actually rising yet few schools willing to join in the voucher programme and continued teacher shortages, shortened school years, etc. then we know the problem is with lack of funding. If we see that the teachers' salaries drop as a result, then we know the problem had to do with their salaries. But either way, we'll never know until the free market can determine their wages.
 
Liberalman
#3
Teacher's salaries is set in stone so this is what the solution is.

Increase class size

Get parents to tutor their kids that are getting lower marks.

Get rid of all field trips

Get in class teacher helpers or parent volunteers

Decrease the school trustees salaries and give them bonuses on on the percentage of kids that graduate which will give them the incentive to work harder at their jobs.

There is always simple solution to avert a disaster
 
Machjo
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

Teacher's salaries is set in stone so this is what the solution is.

Increase class size

Get parents to tutor their kids that are getting lower marks.

Get rid of all field trips

Get in class teacher helpers or parent volunteers

Decrease the school trustees salaries and give them bonuses on on the percentage of kids that graduate which will give them the incentive to work harder at their jobs.


There is always simple solution to avert a disaster

Wouldn't a Swedish-style school voucher programme solve much of the problems you just mentioned?
 
Liberalman
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

Wouldn't a Swedish-style school voucher programme solve much of the problems you just mentioned?

Explain?
 
darkbeaver
#6
The student will be better off working their way through elementary school, so as a cost saving measure they should work on the fields and roads from 7 AM until noon then start the scaled back afternoon academics using text books and teachers from the fifties.
 
taxslave
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

Teacher's salaries is set in stone so this is what the solution is.

Increase class size

Get parents to tutor their kids that are getting lower marks.

Get rid of all field trips

Get in class teacher helpers or parent volunteers

Decrease the school trustees salaries and give them bonuses on on the percentage of kids that graduate which will give them the incentive to work harder at their jobs.

There is always simple solution to avert a disaster

Won't work in B.C. Class size is written into the teachers contracts. That is but one of the legacies of suffering through ten years of NDP mismanagement. And yes teachers are overpaid. Beginning salary is around $30000 and raises with years in the job and degrees held, not grade taught. There are also far too many management and non-teaching staff making way way too much money. EG: Each school district has its own payroll and curriculum development departments.
Trustees have very little authority and do not really make much money but give the perception of public control and might be worth their money just as PR. There are around 70 school districts and do not even follow regional district boundaries.
 
taxslave
#8
I forgot to add that kids or parents can't even clean the boards as that would be taking a unionized employees job away.
 
YukonJack
#9
Need cuts in the education system?

We need only ONE cut: TEACHERS'S Union.

I am sure that if a secret vote was taken among teachers, there would be NO UNION. Unions are for those who are unable to speak for themselves. If teachers can not speak for themselves, I weep for the poor kids taught by them.

Any teacher who is willingly a part of a union is not a teacher, but an indoctrinator.
 
JLM
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post

Need cuts in the education system?

We need only ONE cut: TEACHERS'S Union.

I am sure that if a secret vote was taken among teachers, there would be NO UNION. Unions are for those who are unable to speak for themselves. If teachers can not speak for themselves, I weep for the poor kids taught by them.

Any teacher who is willingly a part of a union is not a teacher, but an indoctrinator.

I wouldn't bet the farm on that Y.J. Teachers are by and large idealists (dreamers) which kind of falls in with Union philosophy. While their ideas may be good, they just don't work too well in the real world.
 
VanIsle
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

Teacher's salaries is set in stone so this is what the solution is.

Increase class size

Get parents to tutor their kids that are getting lower marks.

Get rid of all field trips

Get in class teacher helpers or parent volunteers

Decrease the school trustees salaries and give them bonuses on on the percentage of kids that graduate which will give them the incentive to work harder at their jobs.

There is always simple solution to avert a disaster

As Taxslave states: Won't work in BC. Class size (according to the teachers) is always a factor in should we strike or not in regard to teachers. (Actually translates to - we want more money)
Get parents to tutor their kids. Sorry but that's a joke. First you have to have parents who can come close to doing the job. I had a daughter-in-law that is so self absorbed she would simply tell the kids what to write in a homework response and she's not smart enough to know the answer so they got it wrong anyway. If you can't add and subtract and you can't spell, you can't tutor.
Field trips. In BC, parents must take the kids on field trips (in their own vehicles with the proper amount of seating and the legal seating for smaller children). If disabled children don't have a ride - they just stay at the school and watch a movie. They ask for parent volunteers to get the kids to and from activities and as always, only certain parents agree while the others don't break up their self absorbed day. Naturally some cannot get away but most of the time - those same parents can't seem to get away even on weekends.
Some parents do go and help in class in grades K - 3. I was in my grandson's class one day (I wanted to spend a little while watching what he did in the class). His teacher called his aide over and asked her to ask me to leave. I was a bit taken back but rather than cause a disturbance, I simply left.
Trustees change all the time. How would you ever give them a bonus on those who graduate?
 
lone wolf
#12
So ... what won't work? Tutoring works. Maybe it was the tutor?
 
VanIsle
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

So ... what won't work? Tutoring works. Maybe it was the tutor?

Of course tutoring works as long as you have a qualified tutor.
 
lone wolf
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by VanIsle View Post

Of course tutoring works as long as you have a qualified tutor.

What is a qualified tutor - especially in the primary grades?
 
Machjo
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

Explain?

With parents having more choice, schools would have no choice but to use their resources wisely.
 
darkbeaver
#16
Schools out for ever, schools been blown to pieces, no more teachers no more books no more crap from the crooks, schools been blown to pieces------------------ACooper
 
Cliffy
#17
Schools have always been tools for indoctrinating kids into the present paradigm. But with our world view constantly in flux, schools have been much slower to catch up the constant shift. More and more, people are realizing that in order to survive our current race toward self destruction, a radical paradigm shift is necessary, but schools continue to adhere to outdated and outmoded processes of indoctrination.
 
TenPenny
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Schools out for ever, schools been blown to pieces, no more teachers no more books no more crap from the crooks, schools been blown to pieces------------------ACooper

Didn't he do an ad for Staples or something a couple of years ago, shopping for back to school supplies with his daughter...it was hilarious.
 
AnnaG
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I just heard on the news that one of the school districts in B.C. is in dire financial straits and will be laying off staff and reducing the length of the school year by ten days. Do you see other alternatives to this? Are the school years too short already? Would reducing everyone's salary by 10% be a better solution? Have teachers gotten too greedy? What do you think?

If it's one in Prince George, the news hit the air a few weeks ago and I posted an article on it.
Campbull has to pay for the Olys somehow, you know.
I have no love for public school teachers. But I have even less for arrogant, entitled jerks like Campbull.

Did you know that 241 snivel serpents got paid to "volunteer" to do work on the Olys? And we suffer cutbacks in health and education.

More waste: BC gov't work environment surveys. The gov't doesn't pay any attention to the surveys it (we) pays for. And we suffer cutbacks in health and education.

The top 10 officials of Translink each received $118,000 for car allowances. Are they driving to and forth from the moon everyday? And we suffer cutbacks in health and education.

"Teachers, parents, and students across the province will be dismayed that the BC Liberals have chosen to waste valuable resources in an appeal of Gordon Campbell’s undemocratic and unconstitutional Gag Law at a time when schools are reeling from another round of mean-spirited cuts," (from Sept 14,2009) according to Susan Lambert (BCTF)

There's loads more incidents of waste from the Campbull gov't.
 
AnnaG
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

With parents having more choice, schools would have no choice but to use their resources wisely.

Perhaps we should use our resources more wisely, too, and make the gov't actually work FOR us instead of against us and for itself.
 
JLM
#21
Upon giving this subject some more thought I think there are several fairly simple solutions to the problem such as
1. Schools could adopt the 4 day week (it works well in Boundary District #51)
2. All salaries to be frozen until the money situation improves.
3. Instead of laying off people, share the shortage by reducing hours to keep everyone working.
4. Reduce the use of school buses- kids living within two miles of their school can walk, it would also address the lack of exercise and obesity problem hence killing two birds with one stone.
Does anyone else have more ideas?
 
JLM
#22
One other area where there could be savings would be to reduce the janitorial needs by having the home economics students take over part of the duties as part of their training. What better way to learn the art of scrubbing floors, dusting, waxing, vacuuming and taking out the garbage so they will be competent at it when they start running their own homes. Again this could addres the lack of exercise and obesity problems.
 
Machjo
#23
Ideas worth considering, JLM.
 
JLM
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

Ideas worth considering, JLM.

I think administration could be another albatross.
 
Machjo
#25
Personally, though I'm all for making school spending more efficient, I'm still undecided as to whether we need to increase, reduce, or maintain government funding on education. As for compulsory education between the ages of five and, say, fifteen, I'd be in favour of increasing the number of school days per year possibly, which could potentially mean having to increase spending on education.
 
Machjo
#26
As for students taking responsibility of the maintenance of the school as a part of their home economics education, that might not be a bad idea. I think a Swedish-style school voucher system could also encourage more efficient use of funds.
 
JLM
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

Personally, though I'm all for making school spending more efficient, I'm still undecided as to whether we need to increase, reduce, or maintain government funding on education. As for compulsory education between the ages of five and, say, fifteen, I'd be in favour of increasing the number of school days per year possibly, which could potentially mean having to increase spending on education.

Yep, that wouldn't hurt although perhaps making the days 1/2 an hour longer might be a little less painful and accomplish the same thing.
 
Machjo
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Yep, that wouldn't hurt although perhaps making the days 1/2 an hour longer might be a little less painful and accomplish the same thing.

We do have a limited attention span. On that front, extending the school day is likely to be less effective simply because the children are tired by the end of a day of cramming and jamming maths, grammar, science, foreign languages, etc. etc. etc. Their minds need a break, and so by the end of the day if the school day is too long, they aren't really learning much anymore anyway. That's why I think extending the number of school days rather than the number of hours in the day might be a better idea. Also, if we should do this mainly for a nine year period starting at the age of five, then we're ensuring that it wont' interfere with summer jobs, etc. later. For that nine year period starting at the age of five, I could even consider a 6 day school week, and getting rid of holidays other than statutory holidays. Though we may have to consider a slightly shorter school day to compensate. Perhaps even have people graduate form high school before the age of fifteen.
 
Machjo
#29
Also, earlier graduation would give students a chance to start working earlier so as to gain life experience and save for university.
 
Machjo
#30
Graduation by age 15? this could be of interest:

g r a d u a t i o n . by . a g e . 1 5
 

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