Cut Israel Off

JBeee
#1
November 17, 2007
by Charley Reese I t is long past time for American politicians to quit carrying water for the state of Israel and its powerful U.S. lobby. Congress' craven obedience to the lobby is a disgrace.

America's strategic interests in the Middle East lie with the Arab countries. Israel is a strategic and economic liability. The U.S. government's slavish support of Israel brands us as a hypocrite and is responsible for most of the hostility toward the U.S.

Americans have been brainwashed into believing that it's the Arabs, and the Palestinians in particular, who don't want peace. That is a big lie. The Palestinians made an enormous concession when they agreed to settle for a state on 18 percent of Palestine. Saudi Arabia proposed several years ago a peace plan in which all of the Arab countries would recognize Israel in exchange for Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories. The Israelis rejected it out of hand, just as they reject Arab efforts to have the Middle East a nuclear-free zone.

Israel's goal is and always has been to take all of Palestine and to get rid of the Palestinians. The Israelis employed ethnic cleansing in 1948 and again in 1967 to make hundreds of thousands of Palestinians refugees. For 40 years, the Israelis have refused to give back the Palestinian and Syrian lands they seized in war. They have blatantly violated international law by building settlements on occupied land, and by violating the airspace of other sovereign countries.

Palestinians are the victims, not the villains, in this case. The Israelis make their lives miserable in the hope they will give up and leave. At the same time, the Israelis, in cahoots with the American government, maintain a charade of proposed peace talks. They of course never come to fruition. The Israeli government is not about to allow the Palestinians to have a viable state. If they give the Palestinians anything, it will be a patchwork of enclaves completely surrounded and controlled by Israel. Having created 700,000 Palestinian refugees, the Israelis have from the beginning refused to allow them to return to their homes, farms and businesses, all of which Israel confiscated on the specious grounds that they were "abandoned property."

Without U.S. aid, which now is conservatively estimated to total $108 billion (think of the infrastructure and schools that amount could build in the U.S.), and without the U.S. wielding its veto every time the United Nations tries to act, none of this would be possible.

It is not just the Muslim world that hates our pro-Israel foreign policy, for sound reasons that it is unjust and cruel. Europeans and others around the world are contemptuous of America's slavelike obedience to a small foreign power. It has gotten to the point that to be seen as an ally of the United States is viewed negatively.

The Arab and Muslim people, with the exception of al-Qaeda, don't hate America or Americans. It is the pro-Israel foreign policy and, of course, our invasions of two Muslim countries that they hate. Virtually all of the anti-Arab and anti-Muslim propaganda generated in this country has its source in the Israeli lobby and in Israel itself.

Thanks to the unconstitutional largess of the cowardly Congress, Israel is a rich country and one of the world's leading military powers. It doesn't need American aid. It is time to quit dancing to the tune of a lobby with dual loyalties and to pursue America's interests.

Americans are being betrayed by their own politicians, and it's time to treat those scoundrels with the contempt they deserve.
 
Jersay
#2
Quote:

Palestinians are the victims, not the villains, in this case. The Israelis make their lives miserable in the hope they will give up and leave. At the same time, the Israelis, in cahoots with the American government, maintain a charade of proposed peace talks. They of course never come to fruition. The Israeli government is not about to allow the Palestinians to have a viable state. If they give the Palestinians anything, it will be a patchwork of enclaves completely surrounded and controlled by Israel. Having created 700,000 Palestinian refugees, the Israelis have from the beginning refused to allow them to return to their homes, farms and businesses, all of which Israel confiscated on the specious grounds that they were "abandoned property."

Without U.S. aid, which now is conservatively estimated to total $108 billion (think of the infrastructure and schools that amount could build in the U.S.), and without the U.S. wielding its veto every time the United Nations tries to act, none of this would be possible.

Very very true! If Hamas and the others wanted to attack America because they 'truly' hate Americans then they would have done it by now because they have better connections in the States then Al Qaeda has because of the Palestinian international community. This article states the true fact because for the past few weeks Abbas has wanted the peace talks to be substantive so that Hamas losses power in Gaza. But Olmert, has proven that first he didn't want substantive negotiations and now saying peace talks might not even happen at all.

Let us invade Israel and make it a true democracy for the Palestinians and the Israeli Arabs that are treated as second-class citizens and destroy the only autocratic regime in the Middle East that has WMD.
 
Jersay
#3
Good article mind you.
 
Colpy
Conservative
+1
#4  Top Rated Post
The usual bull**** from the left.

The only thing I would agree with in the entire post is the declaration that the palestinians want peace. That the average Palestinian would like to live in peace is without question, as would the average Israeli.......unfortunately peace programs are usually derailed by extremists on both sides......

As for the refugee thing, people consistently forget 800,000 Jews were expelled from Arab countries after the 1948 war.......where are the demands they be compensated, allowed to return to their seized property, where are the calls for justice for them?


Why are they assimilated into Israel and at peace, while 50 years down the road the Arab nations have done NOTHING to aid their Palestinian brothers.......they prefer them as they are, a propaganda club to beat Israel with.
 
Jersay
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

The usual bull**** from the left.

The only thing I would agree with in the entire post is the declaration that the palestinians want peace. That the average Palestinian would like to live in peace is without question, as would the average Israeli.......unfortunately peace programs are usually derailed by extremists on both sides......

As for the refugee thing, people consistently forget 800,000 Jews were expelled from Arab countries after the 1948 war.......where are the demands they be compensated, allowed to return to their seized property, where are the calls for justice for them?


Why are they assimilated into Israel and at peace, while 50 years down the road the Arab nations have done NOTHING to aid their Palestinian brothers.......they prefer them as they are, a propaganda club to beat Israel with.

More right-wing bull****!

The Israelis do not want a sustainable Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza period. It is not sustainable because they have invested 40+ years in settlers saying it was rightfully their's when it never has been and never should be. They cannot make a full prosperous state of Palestine because the Israeli public, and the Israeli settlers don't want it.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#6
Perhaps you've failed to notice, but Israel removed its citizens from Gaza and abandoned that territory, and planned to do the same in the West Bank.

And what happened in Gaza?

Hmmmmm?
 
Jersay
#7
Israel has not pulled out. They control all crossings. They control the land, sea and air zones of Gaza. They insure what international relations if any Gaza has. They stage missile attacks and ground operations into Gaza. That is not free. Nor will they give up a large intact part of the West Bank.

Only small little chunks to the north, south and east while maintaining Israel control over the border with Jordan. Some state Israel is planning. Israeli's never want peace.

Freedom to Palestinians, Freedom to Israeli Arabs.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Jersay View Post

Israel has not pulled out. They control all crossings. They control the land, sea and air zones of Gaza. They insure what international relations if any Gaza has. They stage missile attacks and ground operations into Gaza. That is not free. Nor will they give up a large intact part of the West Bank.

Only small little chunks to the north, south and east while maintaining Israel control over the border with Jordan. Some state Israel is planning. Israeli's never want peace.

Freedom to Palestinians, Freedom to Israeli Arabs.

Now here is the rub............Israel is an island of prosperity and freedom in an Arab sea of oppression and meglomaniacal murder..........

Israeli Arabs are treated as second-class citizens......their schools, their village infrastrucure, and their treatment by the justice system is not up to par.....no doubt about it.....BUT they are frustrated, but they RARELY become involved in overt violent acts against the state of Israel.....

Why is that?

Because they understand very well how much better off they are as second class citizens in Israel than they would be as first class citizens in Hezbollah-controlled south Lebanon, in Syria, in Saudi Arabia, in Egypt, or in Hamas-controlled Gaza. They understand very well that "Freedom to Israeli Arabs" has the most hope of being achieved in the Jewish state of Israel........

Sort of reveals to the lefty stupidity of wanting to abandon a western democracy for Arab plutocracies. just dumb-ass.
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Jersay View Post

They stage missile attacks and ground operations into Gaza. That is not free.

I know!! And it's all so unprovoked, too! I mean, I could understand if Palestinians were firing rockets into Israel from Gaza, like, oh, I don't know, say EVERY DAY!!...then I could understand Israeli's being pissed off. But to just come outta nowhere like that, sheesh.
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Jersay View Post

They insure what international relations if any Gaza has.

Wow, so not only do they control the United States, the World Media and Hollywood, but they control CAIR too.

Oiy, those Jews.
 
Zzarchov
#11
You know, even if Gaza was formally independant, it still would not mean Israel would have to do anything different. The only difference is it would have zero responsibility for the civilians.

If Israel ever wanted Gaza empty, it would set it free. 10 minutes later when Gaza fired a rocket (again), a state of war, and enough firepower combined with the still closed access points would mean Gaza would die in a few months, allowing Israel to again occupy it (this time with it empty).

So if Israel really wanted to be evil, it would have done it already.
 
earth_as_one
#12
I could post something, but its already been said. I'll just reference Jews Against the Occupation.

Quote:

1. Israel Is illegally Occupying Palestine
Under UN Resolution 242, Israel is required by international law to withdraw from all the territories occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem. The United Nation's General Assembly has repeatedly condemned Israel's occupation of the territories as illegal (see UN resolutions 338, 1397, and 1402, among others). Israel's continued occupation of Palestine, sanctioned and maintained by US funds, is one of the most serious obstructions to a just and lasting peace in the Middle East.

2. Israel systematically violates the Human Rights of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories

Each day, Israeli security forces in the West Bank and Gaza violate the 4th Geneva Convention on Human Rights, an agreement that governs wartime rules of protection of civilians during engagement. Palestinian homes and agriculture fields are routinely demolished to make way for illegal Israeli settlements. Israeli soldiers regularly arrest and detain Palestinians--often for years--without due process. According to Amnesty International, Israel is the only country in the world that legalizes torture.

3. Israel is an Apartheid State

Israel has developed an elaborate system of racial discrimination embedded in its legal system, a system rivaling Apartheid South Africa's laws. These laws include the Law of Entry, the Law of Return, the Citizenship Law, the Military Service Law, and a host of legally sanctioned, discriminatory rabbinical rulings. Palestinians are denied various welfare benefits, access to many jobs, and the leasing of homes and land controlled by government bodies. Electricity, sewerage, and roads are provided free to Israeli households, whereas many Palestinian communities in Israel, and especially in the Occupied Territories, have existed for decades without adequate services. Laws governing land ownership such as the Law of Acquisition of Absentee Property and the Law for Acquisition of Land blatantly discriminate against Palestinians. Land ownership in Palestine is more unjust than it ever was in South Africa; at the height of apartheid, black people nominally `controlled' 13 percent of the land, whereas in Israel the Palestinians control only 2 percent of the land.

Blockades which allow settlers free movement but restrict Palestinians have lost 100,000 workers their jobs. The Israeli government issues identification cards and car number-plates, color coded, which restrict travel for non-Jews. Palestinians in the West Bank are routinely prevented from traveling to the Gaza Strip because they have to travel through `Israeli' territory. No significant industry, aside from Jewish Israeli settlement industries, has been permitted to develop in the West Bank or Gaza. Consequently. Palestinians are concentrated in the lowest paying jobs and form a super-exploited labor force for Israeli capital. Palestinian exports to Western Europe are banned so as not to compete with Israeli exports. Ninety percent of Palestinian workers must travel to Jewish towns for employment.

4. US Aid to Israel Violates US Laws

The US Arms Export Control Act (AECA) strictly forbids the government from giving military assistance to any country that violates internationally recognized human rights.

The State Department's 2001 human rights report states:

"Israeli security units often used excessive force against Palestinian demonstrators including live fire ... impeded the provision of medical assistance to Palestinian civilians by their strict enforcement of internal closures, which reportedly contributed to at least 32 deaths. Israeli security forces harassed and abused Palestinian pedestrians and drivers who were attempting to pass through the more than 130 Israeli-controlled checkpoints ..."

Under the AECA, "the President is required to report to Congress promptly upon the receipt of information that a substantial violation of AECA may have occurred." The US government is fully aware of the Israeli army's human rights violations, as the above quote from the State Department shows. The US government has eroded its own credibility as an impartial mediator by continuing to arm Israel without restriction and allowing these weapons to be used against civilian populations in violation of US law.

5. US aid to Israel threatens US Security and Global Stability

US funding of Israel's human rights abuses fuels resentment towards the US. While the rest of the world strongly condemns Israelís occupation of the Palestinian Territories, our government provides the political, diplomatic and material means for the occupation to continue. Such actions by the US government provoke anti-US sentiment throughout the world, ultimately jeopardizing the safety of people living in the US. The US can build its own security only by gaining the trust and respect of the international community.

http://jatonyc.org/usaid.doc

 
Colpy
Conservative
#13
Okay, EaO, I long ago realized we are NEVER going to agree on this subject.....

1. Who give a rat's ass what the UN thinks? International Law is a bad joke. When Israel does completely withdraw from conquered territory, it instantly turns into a launch pad for attacks into Israel.......... (see the Gaza Strip)

2. Your info is dated. The use of torture is indefencable.......but the Israeli Supreme Court made it illegal in Israel YEARS ago. AND, as I said, who gives a damn about International Law......if the Palestinians quit shooting rockets into Israel, they might find themselves less likely to be shot in military incursions.

3. True......conditions for Arab Israelis are improving......but slowly. They are still better off as second-class citizens in Israel than they would be in the vast majority of surrounding Arab nations.

4. See number 1.

5. American foreign policy should be generated by Americans, not the people of pro=Palestinian states......
 
Zzarchov
#14
I'll reference Arabs for Israel:

Quote:

- Israel is a legitimate state that is not a threat but an asset in the Middle East.
- Palestinians have several options but are deprived from exercising them because of their leadership, the Arab League and surrounding Arab and Moslem countries who have other goals besides seeing Palestinians live in harmony with Israel.
- We can resolve our conflicts using non-violent means. Sending our young people on suicide/homicide missions as a form of Jihad is a distortion of Islam. We can do better.

 
MikeyDB
#15
Colpy

How much money has Israel recieved from the United States? How much in the form of technology, weapns etc..?

If you honestly think that the amount of money given to Israel by the United States is reasonable and hasn't been spent on oppressive policies (enforcement) that has exacerbated the situation in the Middle East, what do you suppose Israel is doing with all that money?

Perhaps it's being spent on their far-reaching aid programs, we've all watched as Israeli cargo transports bring food to devastated populations around the world haven't we?

Maybe it's being spent on supporting troops in Afghanistan or Iraq, where the "coalition of the willing" is prosecuting a war on terrorism.(translated....the enemies of Israel)....

Maybe they're spending it on a space program and any day now a huge chunk of the International space station will be walled off in preperation for the arival of the newest Israeli astronauts....

You disappoint me Colpy. And while it's not your responsibility to please me or anyone else, it is revealing that you're convinced that handing over these billions upon billions of dollars to Israel demands nothing of the people receiveing the benefits. Terrorism takes all shapes and dons all guises....
 
Colpy
Conservative
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDB View Post

Colpy

How much money has Israel recieved from the United States? How much in the form of technology, weapns etc..?

If you honestly think that the amount of money given to Israel by the United States is reasonable and hasn't been spent on oppressive policies (enforcement) that has exacerbated the situation in the Middle East, what do you suppose Israel is doing with all that money?

Perhaps it's being spent on their far-reaching aid programs, we've all watched as Israeli cargo transports bring food to devastated populations around the world haven't we?

Maybe it's being spent on supporting troops in Afghanistan or Iraq, where the "coalition of the willing" is prosecuting a war on terrorism.(translated....the enemies of Israel)....

Maybe they're spending it on a space program and any day now a huge chunk of the International space station will be walled off in preperation for the arival of the newest Israeli astronauts....

You disappoint me Colpy. And while it's not your responsibility to please me or anyone else, it is revealing that you're convinced that handing over these billions upon billions of dollars to Israel demands nothing of the people receiveing the benefits. Terrorism takes all shapes and dons all guises....

The Americans have supported Israel economically and militarily since shortly after the creation of the Jewish state. Good for them. What Israel is doing with the money is building and defending a western style democracy with rule-of-law and liberty..........

The poor Muslims have been waging jihad against either out-and-out infidels, people of the book, or heretic Muslims since 622AD, when it all started on the instruction, and under the leadership of Mohammed himself.

To consider Islam a "religion of peace" is laughable...........jihad would continue with or without Israel or the USA.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#17
Reasonable compromise.... Give Israel Arizona and stop buying Mid East oil.

Woof!
Last edited by lone wolf; Nov 18th, 2007 at 11:49 AM..
 
MikeyDB
#18
Ok so I've got Colpy's vote for extermination of the Arab people....

And we've got acknowledgement that people won't ever be able to agree or acknowledge that responsibility spreads across all people regardless of "borders" etc.

Small wonder the worlds a mess.
 
Blackleaf
#19
Who was it who kidnapped a BBC reporter earlier this year and held him imprisoned him for months? It was the Palestinians. The Israelis wouldn't do anything like that.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDB View Post

Ok so I've got Colpy's vote for extermination of the Arab people....

And we've got acknowledgement that people won't ever be able to agree or acknowledge that responsibility spreads across all people regardless of "borders" etc.

Small wonder the worlds a mess.

Huh?

I didn't think that, wouldn't want that, and certainly didn't write that!

BTW, most Jews and Arabs are Semites..............the SAME people.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Who was it who kidnapped a BBC reporter earlier this year and held him imprisoned him for months? It was the Palestinians. The Israelis wouldn't do anything like that.

Apparently that wasn't James Miller....
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1426.shtml

Woof!
Last edited by lone wolf; Nov 18th, 2007 at 06:25 PM..
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
#22
As a Yank who has paid enough taxes over the years, I've long been sick of seeing my dollars go off to Israel. Hell, they use those dollars to give medical insurance for their citizens but we in the USA can't get any coverage for ourselves! Ain't that a f****d up deal??


So yeah, cut off Israel from our aid. But let's get our money back, with interest!!
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Who was it who kidnapped a BBC reporter earlier this year and held him imprisoned him for months? It was the Palestinians. The Israelis wouldn't do anything like that.


It wasn't the Palestinians who attacked the USS Liberty thereby killing 34 USA servicemen and injuring at least 170.
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
#24
James Miller

Yes, I remember well when his murder by the Zionist Gestapo was presented on BBC --- why weren't those terrorists executed for their crime???
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Perhaps you've failed to notice, but Israel removed its citizens from Gaza and abandoned that territory, and planned to do the same in the West Bank.

And what happened in Gaza?

Hmmmmm?

They had an election and got a dose of democracy, and that's frightening stuff to some.
 
Zzarchov
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

They had an election and got a dose of democracy, and that's frightening stuff to some.

No, they had an election and proved they had no interest in democracy, devolving into armed camps. They decided "Why give up the reigns of power just because we lose a vote? We have guns!"

This is one of the reasons the territories need to be occupied, they were better off under Israel than without.
 
MikeyDB
#27
Until anyone on this forum can tell me what it's like to have your land taken from you and you and your family are made prisoners in your own country ...the rest is bull.....

In case you didn't hear this before, Palestinians didn't vote to be occupied and reduced to second class citizenship...

Maybe that's the way people would like it in New Brunswick or other places in Canada, but ask someone from Arizona or New Mexico or parts of SE United States how they feel about special privilege and attention given to displaced Mexicans...both legal and illegal....

Once again folk have demonstrated their rejection of reasoned debate and play the tired old song about democracy....

Democracy doesn't exist in Israel anymore than it exists in Canada or the United States. The world in case you've been away for a couple of hundred years is ruled by business and corporate interests...

You vote and you're consistantly and repeatedly disappointed by government and you still think the sham of a democracy here translates to the same kind of democracy "enjoyed" by Palestinians in Israel?

Sure transplanted Europeans occupied North America and we have terrorists in Oka and Ipperwash and Caledonia just pleased as punch with the way that occupation has unfolded....

Gezus people are thick.....

This notion that you can take somones land and tell them how fortunate they are that someone else is in control worked well for the slave trade in America didn't it?

No there was no land taken, just the freedom of slaves and their reduction to second class citizenship is similar to living in a territory occupied by people who don't belong there and who were forced on you by the neighborhood bully....

Someday perhaps the United States will have had enough of Anti-Americanism creeping across the border from Canada and just decide that this would be a great place for all the illegal immigrants and HIV folk, the trash of their society sent to live in wonderful Canada....and Canadians would think that's just a wonderful solution now wouldn't they?

You sit peacefully sipping your coffee and reading the paper while Israeli and Palestinian families grieve for their fallen children and you have the balls to think you understand how these people feel?
 
MikeyDB
#28
Has it occurred to anyone here at CC what the dynamic is that's at work in the Middle East?

"They proved they don't want democracy"......demonstrates a willingness to overlook the obvious....

Islamic societies have NEVER BEEN DEMOCRACIES! When the cultural imperative is to support the religious underpinnings of your ancestors and your society and those underpinnings declare that political power and the "running" of your nation is correctly and appropriately left in the hands of the believer community, DEMOCRACY isn't a concept that you play with for any length of time.

This great DEMOCRACY that the U.S. and an apparently significant number of Canadians applaud and want to see transplanted to the Middle East is just as corrupt and just as ill-suited and ill-tempered as any religious hegemony.

List the frequency and severity of cultural turmoils that have plagued Western-Style Democracies....

In Canada we still have Supreme Court Justices who favor beating a woman with a stick as a method of "correction"....

We permit the Roman Catholic Church to sexually abuse women and children....

We have never come to terms with slavery (United States) and the echoes of a radicalized sub-society are once again rising to the surface....

We support and endorse the notion that the wealthy have a different set of laws than do the poor...that it's perfectly OK for a million Canadians to need foodbanks to feed their families....

The list is lengthy and yet this is the great DEMOCRACY you'd like to see alive and well in Israel ...or you think exists there now!?

Yer baked.....
 
Zzarchov
#29
1.) People will always believe what they want, Im glad that we have a justice who believes in beating women with sticks. It means even people with nutball views like that have fair representation in all aspects of our society. Note they aren't a majority, so you can't infact beat wives with sticks.
2.) We don't let them. Seeing as we don't have mind control devices nor should we, people excersize their free will, we catch them causing wrongs, and punish them. People commit crimes in all nations on earth, so this isn't unique to the west.
3.) Yes they did come to terms with it, quite dramatically. Poverty takes hundreds of years to mix in with the general population, but its happening slowly. Wealth doesn't ebb and flow that quickly, for anyone. Their are now wealthy (as in long term wealth) black families in the USA, so it definately is changing, but things don't happen with a magic wand.
4.) All nations have this concept, the difference is, here we HAVE foodbanks to feed them.


So far you've just railed against universal human sufferings, in aspects we are better off then them (because of our political system) and somehow in "yer baked" mind, think that proves the opposite.

Calm down, think rationally.
 
earth_as_one
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Okay, EaO, I long ago realized we are NEVER going to agree on this subject.....

1. Who give a rat's ass what the UN thinks? International Law is a bad joke. When Israel does completely withdraw from conquered territory, it instantly turns into a launch pad for attacks into Israel.......... (see the Gaza Strip)

2. Your info is dated. The use of torture is indefencable.......but the Israeli Supreme Court made it illegal in Israel YEARS ago. AND, as I said, who gives a damn about International Law......if the Palestinians quit shooting rockets into Israel, they might find themselves less likely to be shot in military incursions.

3. True......conditions for Arab Israelis are improving......but slowly. They are still better off as second-class citizens in Israel than they would be in the vast majority of surrounding Arab nations.

4. See number 1.

5. American foreign policy should be generated by Americans, not the people of pro=Palestinian states......

I know we can't agree. But I enjoy the debate. You are right, the information is dated. I also agree that Arabs are better off as second class citizens in Israel than they would be as equal citizens under the Palestinian authority or many of Israel's neighbors. By the way, I think Israel should be gradually weaned off military aid, not cut off. I believe in gradualism. Abrupt change would lead to an escalation of violence. Israel still practices torture, but so does the US and many other close American allies (Egypt and Saudi Arabia)
 

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