Trans Mountain ‘pipeline is going to get built’: Trudeau dismisses B.C.’s bitumen ban


petros
+1
#601
Just a little.

BC banked on fossil fuels. There is oil and gas under BC's prairies and it moves by pipelines.

How many LNG ports were planned?

Now if they build a gas network and get off heating oil they'd be on to something.
 
Most helpful post: The members here have rated this post as best reply.
Mowich
Conservative
+2
#602
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

This morning Liberal bag man Morneau announces that Canada will pay all costs of "politically motivated stoppages"of the stinky pipeline.

Of course. That was a given. Big Oil gets the handouts every time.


But will this actually keep the stinky pipeline on schedule? Does Kinder Morgan even want it anymore?

Liberals determined to get their hands on all that oil revenue. Have made it personal with Horgan.

BC NDP/Green will bury them, because they are in the right - and that actually matters.


You are so laughable, Hoid. Truly. Us BCers will be paying even more at the pump when Rachel turns off the taps. I will gladly pay more for more gas knowing that my support of Alberta and twinning of the line is the RIGHT THING to do. Horgan and Weaver can go pound sand something that they are supremely suited for.

Weaver on PP today trying so hard to be significant. What a frickin' nimby dolt.
 
petros
+2
#603
BC should be on the hook for any costs.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#604
Oilsands Tailing Ponds Ticking Time Bomb for Canadians

Alberta has failed to protect taxpayers from billions in cleanup costs.



Oilsands cleanup costs are forecast at $27 billion to $48 billion; companies have posted only $1.4 billion to cover future costs. Photo from Google Maps.



Last fall, the Alberta Energy Regulator (AER) approved a previously rejected plan from Suncor that allows the company 70 years after the mine closes in 2033 to sign off on its reclamation requirements.

Collectively, tailings ponds now cover 25,000 hectares in northern Alberta and contain a poisonous brew of organic acids, benzene, lead and fine clay particles that have not significantly settled out in 50 years. The result is lakes of toxic yogurt impounded by the largest earthen structures in the world.
The current plan, to be completed almost a century from now, involves pumping this poisonous slurry into abandoned mining pits and covering it with a water cap — an unproven technique based on the dubious assumption that the contaminated and uncontaminated layers will somehow not mix decades into the future.
Alberta has the constitutional right to manage resources as the province sees fit, but the current situation could be described as regulatory humiliation. Bitumen royalties make up less than four per cent of the provincial budget and capture a similarly puny proportion of the market value of bitumen produced by the companies.



More: http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2018/05/15...m_source=daily
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
+3
#605
Horgan should be slapped with a treason charge and sentenced to the maximum penalty and NEVER eligible for parole. He's a disgrace to the province.
 
petros
+2
#606
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

The Village Idiot has absolutely no choice. He backed himself into this corner by not coming out firmly and decisively in favor of the twinning. With the announcement today that the government of Canada will back any losses to KM, it is a go, go go. Yeah!

Idiot boy was supposed to table legislation that blocks BC opposition.

He has 8 days after the House goes back into session on May 22 to pull it off.
 
Mowich
Conservative
+1
#607
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Horgan should be slapped with a treason charge and sentenced to the maximum penalty and NEVER eligible for parole. He's a disgrace to the province.


I'll be happy to see him and his numbskull buddy Weaver being sent to the political wilderness never ever to return.
 
petros
+1
#608
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Oilsands Tailing Ponds Ticking Time Bomb for Canadians

Alberta has failed to protect taxpayers from billions in cleanup costs.



Oilsands cleanup costs are forecast at $27 billion to $48 billion; companies have posted only $1.4 billion to cover future costs. Photo from Google Maps.



Last fall, the Alberta Energy Regulator (AER) approved a previously rejected plan from Suncor that allows the company 70 years after the mine closes in 2033 to sign off on its reclamation requirements.

Collectively, tailings ponds now cover 25,000 hectares in northern Alberta and contain a poisonous brew of organic acids, benzene, lead and fine clay particles that have not significantly settled out in 50 years. The result is lakes of toxic yogurt impounded by the largest earthen structures in the world.
The current plan, to be completed almost a century from now, involves pumping this poisonous slurry into abandoned mining pits and covering it with a water cap — an unproven technique based on the dubious assumption that the contaminated and uncontaminated layers will somehow not mix decades into the future.
Alberta has the constitutional right to manage resources as the province sees fit, but the current situation could be described as regulatory humiliation. Bitumen royalties make up less than four per cent of the provincial budget and capture a similarly puny proportion of the market value of bitumen produced by the companies.



More: http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2018/05/15...m_source=daily

That's great. They could just dump it in a lake like BC allowed Polley in Quesnel.

Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

I'll be happy to see him and his numbskull buddy Weaver being sent to the political wilderness never ever to return.

October.
 
Decapoda
+2
#609
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

This morning Liberal bag man Morneau announces that Canada will pay all costs of "politically motivated stoppages"of the stinky pipeline.

That's not what he said, but I'll cut you some slack... Illiteracy must be a curse.

What he said was the government is willing to “provide indemnity” to any investors, be they the project’s original architects or otherwise, to ensure the controversial Alberta-B.C. project is able to proceed.

Morneau is a buffoon. Does he actually think KM would allow anyone else to complete an expansion on one of their pipelines?? Does Morneau think Trudeau has ultimate authority over KM pipe? I think this could get very expensive for taxpayers if tater follows through on his delusion of grandeur.
 
petros
+2
#610
Don't be shocked if it becomes a 3P with AB SK as key investors and heavy Fed investment from the Infrastructure Bank and CPP.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
+1
#611
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

I'll be happy to see him and his numbskull buddy Weaver being sent to the political wilderness never ever to return.

That would be my second choice!
 
petros
+2
#612
Apparently the Shell LNG terminal is a go for Kitimat.

Where are the Ego-warriors? Getting high on indoor weed?
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+3
#613
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Oilsands Tailing Ponds Ticking Time Bomb for Canadians

Alberta has failed to protect taxpayers from billions in cleanup costs.



Oilsands cleanup costs are forecast at $27 billion to $48 billion; companies have posted only $1.4 billion to cover future costs. Photo from Google Maps.



Last fall, the Alberta Energy Regulator (AER) approved a previously rejected plan from Suncor that allows the company 70 years after the mine closes in 2033 to sign off on its reclamation requirements.

Collectively, tailings ponds now cover 25,000 hectares in northern Alberta and contain a poisonous brew of organic acids, benzene, lead and fine clay particles that have not significantly settled out in 50 years. The result is lakes of toxic yogurt impounded by the largest earthen structures in the world.
The current plan, to be completed almost a century from now, involves pumping this poisonous slurry into abandoned mining pits and covering it with a water cap — an unproven technique based on the dubious assumption that the contaminated and uncontaminated layers will somehow not mix decades into the future.
Alberta has the constitutional right to manage resources as the province sees fit, but the current situation could be described as regulatory humiliation. Bitumen royalties make up less than four per cent of the provincial budget and capture a similarly puny proportion of the market value of bitumen produced by the companies.



More: http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2018/05/15...m_source=daily

All oil company's by law have to set money aside for reclamation and pay into a provincial contingency plan in case of bankruptcy so taxpayers are on the hook for nothing in this case
 
Hoid
+1
#614
There is no need to worry about cleaning up the environmental nightmare in northern Alberta because it is never going to cleaned up.
 
Vbeacher
+3
#615
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

That is declaration of war against the people of BC, especially our native people. This is going to cause blood shed. Fukk tar sands. Pump it east if you must. We don't want that shit fowling up our water, soil and air.

I suspect Albertans have a helluva lot more guns than the people in the lower BC mainland, and know a lot more about how to use them, so go ahead, soldier boy.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
+3
#616
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

That is declaration of war against the people of BC, especially our native people. This is going to cause blood shed. Fukk tar sands. Pump it east if you must. We don't want that shit fowling up our water, soil and air.

We have to get away from this "Either or" mentality. This is 2018. We can have industry and a clean environment. Time to get away from the Red Herrings, Cliffy. There is always some risk in whatever we do, an alternative would be staying in bed and dying of bed sores!
 
pgs
Free Thinker
+2
#617
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

We have to get away from this "Either or" mentality. This is 2018. We can have industry and a clean environment. Time to get away from the Red Herrings, Cliffy. There is always some risk in whatever we do, an alternative would be staying in bed and dying of bed sores!

That is why the cliffster is so miserable , he is sitting around all day dreaming about blowing up the man , Man. Sadly he no longer has the energy .
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
+1
#618
 
pgs
Free Thinker
+2
#619
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

A little secret Cliff, most of those containers get shipped by rail to Toronto for destuffing . The goods are then sent to distributors across Canada , including back to Vancouver . Efficiency personified , it is the Canadian way .
 
Colpy
Conservative
+5
#620
Trudeau, if he had an intellect "deeper than a finger bowl" would disallow the Alberta legislation allowing them to shut off the oil taps.......and then disallow any BC legislation hampering bitumen shipments through pipelines.
 
Hoid
+1
#621
Quote: Originally Posted by Vbeacher View Post

I suspect Albertans have a helluva lot more guns than the people in the lower BC mainland, and know a lot more about how to use them, so go ahead, soldier boy.

A perfect example of the white nationalist climate change denier level of maturity.

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Trudeau, if he had an intellect "deeper than a finger bowl" would disallow the Alberta legislation allowing them to shut off the oil taps.......and then disallow any BC legislation hampering bitumen shipments through pipelines.

It isn't up to the Prime Minister to disallow laws.

That would be up to the Supreme Court and have no worries, they will disallow any law that Alberta cobbles together that is contrary to the Constitution and/or common law and tradition.

IF only the world worked the way that white nationalist climate change deniers saw it.

As far as the Port of Vancouver goes - this port and in fact the Burranrd inlet in general is not suitable for oil tanker traffic.

Cannot handle the modern size tankers at all.

So Alberta is stuck with trying to pretend that they are sending oil to China in 500K tankers to compete with lower cost producers who are shipping in there in modern 2M carriers.

The whole fiction is barely holding together.
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+2
#622
Court throws out Trans Mountain pipeline challenge from City of Vancouver and Squamish Nation

Quote:

B.C.'s Supreme Court has dismissed legal challenges to Kinder Morgan's Trans Mountain expansion project from the City of Vancouver and the Squamish Nation.
In a pair of rulings issued Thursday morning, Justice Christopher Grauer found the province of British Columbia acted reasonably in issuing an environmental assessment certificate to the company.
As Grauer pointed out in his opening remarks to both cases, the decisions are not the end of the legal hurdles facing the pipeline. They dealt strictly with the question of whether the province could defend its actions in light of the National Energy Board's approval of the project.
"This case is not about whether the TMX [Trans Mountain expansion project] should or should not go ahead. It is not about whether the TMX is in the national interest, or presents an unacceptable risk of environmental harm," Grauer wrote.
"This case is not about the adequacy of the consultation that was undertaken through the National Energy Board [NEB] and federal cabinet processes, nor does it resolve or define beyond currently settled law the constitutional limits on what either British Columbia or Alberta can or cannot do in relation to the project." The Trans Mountain expansion would triple the amount of oil being transferred from Alberta to the Kinder Morgan terminal in Burnaby, B.C. The number of oil tankers in the water would also increase to 35 from five each month.
The City of Vancouver claimed that in reviewing the Trans Mountain project, the province failed to engage in proper consultation and failed to conduct a proper environmental assessment. For its part, the Squamish Nation argued the province should have done a further assessment to make up for what it maintained was a "fundamental failure of the process of consultation and accommodation" by the NEB.

Limitations of the ruling

In regard to the Vancouver case, Grauer went to great pains to clarify what questions his court could and could not answer. He said the current provincial government's challenge to the federal government's authority was not part of the litigation before him, nor was the decision of the federal cabinet to approve the project.
"Did [the province] follow the law? Did it act with procedural fairness? Did it act reasonably and in compliance with its own statutory processes?" Grauer asked.
"These are the questions that the courts are equipped to answer, subject always to the considerable constraints imposed by the standards of review that the courts are obliged to employ."
As far as the concerns of the Squamish Nation are concerned, Grauer noted that the Federal Appeal Court is currently considering the adequacy of the NEB's Aboriginal consultation.
But the judge concluded that "adequate consultation did not require British Columbia to correct any perceived shortfall in the NEB process."
He said the province "considered the options constitutionally open to it, and proceeded accordingly."
"There is no doubt that Squamish is deeply disappointed in the approval of the TMX notwithstanding the conditions attached to that approval. It strenuously opposed the project and continues to do so," Grauer wrote.
"But ... I must concern myself not with the result but with the process."
On Thursday, the City of Burnaby also filed another action with the Federal Court of Appeal, asking for a judicial review of the energy's board's approval of the pipeline route. It argued the construction would do serious damage to many areas of the city.

Squamish Nation reacts

A posting on Facebook says the Squamish First Nation had just received the decision and was disappointed. But spokesperson Khelsilem pointed out that the decision was only about provincial approval and that the First Nation is also part of the challenge in the Federal Court of Appeal.
"We have a right to practice our culture, our way of life, and to continue our right to self-determination in our territories," Khelsilem wrote. "This is a right that we have never surrendered, and it is a right we will continue to defend."
The City of Vancouver also released a statement saying it was "disappointed" with the decision.

Quote:

B.C. Attorney General David Eby said both cases involved decisions made by the previous Liberal government, but the NDP government still argued that the provincial Crown had fulfilled its legal duty to consult the Squamish Nation.
"Our government has taken a balanced approach to defending our environment and our economy while fulfilling our legal obligations and respecting the rule of law," Eby said.
The province took no position on the merits of the Vancouver claim.
Kinder Morgan said it was pleased with the court's decision.
Meanwhile, Alberta Premier Rachel Notley said she was happy to see at least one legal hurdle fall.
"This pipeline is unlike any other in that it has been rigorously reviewed, meaningful consultation has taken place and it is paired with an effective climate protection plan," she said in a statement.
"The failures of the past will not be repeated. The government of Alberta will not stop fighting until we get the job done. We will get this pipeline built."

Quote:

Both parties have 30 days to appeal. Vancouver said it is considering its options.
Grauer has also ordered the City of Vancouver to pay Trans Mountain's legal costs for fighting the city's petition.

Why doesn't Squamish Nation have to pay back court costs?
 
Hoid
#623
30 days to appeal exceeds the May 31 ultimatum.
 
petros
+1
#624
And?
 
EagleSmack
+3
#625
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Trudeau, if he had an intellect "deeper than a finger bowl" would disallow the Alberta legislation allowing them to shut off the oil taps.......and then disallow any BC legislation hampering bitumen shipments through pipelines.

Trudeau is a total idiot.
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+2
#626
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

30 days to appeal exceeds the May 31 ultimatum.

TM wasn't issued a stop work order they just want to know if they can continue without being harassed with shutdowns by Prov. Gov.
 
petros
+1
#627
Contingency is in place. The deadline is moot.
 
Decapoda
#628
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Contingency is in place. The deadline is moot.

A very costly contingency...wonder how much is it going to cost the government (ie. taxpayers) to buy the existing pipeline from KM, the pipeline right of way, the terminals and the existing management team? Maybe KM will give us a deal...maybe.
 
Hoid
#629
Buy it and convert it to gasoline
 
petros
+1
#630
Quote: Originally Posted by Decapoda View Post

A very costly contingency...wonder how much is it going to cost the government (ie. taxpayers) to buy the existing pipeline from KM, the pipeline right of way, the terminals and the existing management team? Maybe KM will give us a deal...maybe.

It'll go 3P.