Summation of Wynne's Minimum Wage Announcement


spaminator
#61
Ontario businesses eye fleeing over minimum wage hike | Ontario | News | Toronto
 
Danbones
#62
Go figure eh?
Energy too expensive, wages too expensive, then of course materials will become too expensive, and inflation will eat the wages so the sales will drop.

liebarrels wrong again eh?
 
B00Mer
#63
State of Washington instituted a minimum $15hr wage and their economy is booming... just say'in

* sorry correction Seattle

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ing-inequality
 
JLM
+1
#64
Quote: Originally Posted by B00Mer View Post

State of Washington instituted a minimum $15hr wage and their economy is booming... just say'in

* sorry correction Seattle

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ing-inequality


What time frame are we talking about? Let's see how it's doing in five years! We already know that dozens of wage increases in the past 70 years haven't resulted in sustained periods of prosperity. The Guardian may be jumping the gun on this!
 
spaminator
#65
Loblaw warns minimum wage hike will mean cost cuts | Ontario | News | Toronto Su
 
Walter
#66
Quote: Originally Posted by spaminator View Post

Loblaw warns minimum wage hike will mean cost cuts | Ontario | News | Toronto Su

Yep.
 
spaminator
#67
Grocer 'offended' by minister's minimum wage response | Toronto & GTA | News | T
 
spaminator
#68
Minimum wage hike threatens 185,000 jobs: Study | Ontario | News | Toronto Sun
 
spaminator
#69
Metro CEO: grocery industry will be pressured by Ontario minimum wage hike | Ont
 
White_Unifier
#70
Quote: Originally Posted by Musky View Post

Do you think that was not already coming?

Anyways, countries like Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland do not have government mandated minimum wages and have low unemployment.

I wonder why?

And ironically, they have a narrower wealth gap too.
 
JLM
#71
The burning question is "who is this increase in minimum wage going to help"?
 
Johnnny
#72
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

The burning question is "who is this increase in minimum wage going to help"?

Talking to people around the town here, no one knows.

Its like everything else in Ontario. Wait for it to come into effect and see how badly it ****s shit up.
 
White_Unifier
+1
#73
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

The burning question is "who is this increase in minimum wage going to help"?

The politicians who gain votes from it. No one else will. The rich will not and the poor will not.

Oh sorry, one more group might benefit. The poor who presently work legally and pay taxes and who are finally pushed underground and so save on taxes. I guess they'll benefit too.

Quote: Originally Posted by Johnnny View Post

Talking to people around the town here, no one knows.

Its like everything else in Ontario. Wait for it to come into effect and see how badly it ****s shit up.

That's one good thing about it I guess. It serves as a grand experiment. I hope economists are paying attention and will study its effects in detail. Then not only will it be repealed, but no one will want to touch it for generations to come.
 
MHz
#74
The rest of the economy will adjust to the amount of money low wages throw into the system. It really means overtime id dead and gone forever.
 
pgs
#75
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

The burning question is "who is this increase in minimum wage going to help"?

The government coffers , as wages go up so to does the tax base .

Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

The government coffers , as wages go up so to does the tax base .

Someone has to pay for all the free cr-p .
 
JLM
#76
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

The politicians who gain votes from it. No one else will. The rich will not and the poor will not.

Oh sorry, one more group might benefit. The poor who presently work legally and pay taxes and who are finally pushed underground and so save on taxes. I guess they'll benefit too.



That's one good thing about it I guess. It serves as a grand experiment. I hope economists are paying attention and will study its effects in detail. Then not only will it be repealed, but no one will want to touch it for generations to come.


I think you've hit the nail on the head, I've watched this "wage chase" for almost 60 years. Minimum wage earners today are poorer than they were then.
 
White_Unifier
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I think you've hit the nail on the head, I've watched this "wage chase" for almost 60 years. Minimum wage earners today are poorer than they were then.

Honestly, I think this is where a gold currency would be good. Since it would not inflate, we wouldn't have the-dog-chasing-its-tail-type labour disputes every few years due to inflation having eaten away at the previous labour-management agreement.

But inflation's good, they says.
 
Cliffy
#78
 
pgs
#79
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

A third growth forest in a clear cut park with a polluted stream running through it .
 
spaminator
#80
Ontario minimum wage hike threatens 50,000 jobs: Watchdog
The Canadian Press
First posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:39 AM EDT | Updated: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 06:17 PM EDT
TORONTO - More than 50,000 people could lose their jobs if the Ontario government goes ahead with its plan to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2019, the province’s financial watchdog said Tuesday in a report that assessed the economic impact of the proposed increase.
The job losses would be concentrated among teens and young adults, while the number of minimum wage workers in Ontario would increase from just over 500,000 to 1.6 million in 2019, the Financial Accountability Office said in its report. FAO chief economist David West said the province is entering “uncharted waters” with the increase because no other jurisdiction has gone so far so quickly.
While the move will have a positive impact on the province’s total labour market income — hiking it by 1.3 per cent — it will also result in job losses over a number of years.
“There’s evidence to suggest these job losses could be larger given the magnitude and rapid pace of this increase,” West said.
In July, Premier Kathleen Wynne announced her government would increase the minimum wage to $15 an hour by Jan. 1, 2019. The increase would be phased in gradually and would rise with inflation, as scheduled, from $11.40 currently to $11.60 in October, to $14 an hour on Jan. 1, 2018 and $15 the following year.
West said that while the FAO report makes no recommendations about the proposed policy, it does raise red flags for legislators. The report specifically sites the speed with which Ontario will phase in the change as a concern for business, he said.
“It would be wrong to suggest that there won’t be some employment impact,” he said. “Some businesses will certainly struggle to accommodate these higher payroll costs and will of course look at options for automation, and will look at hiring higher paid, higher productivity workers perhaps. But one way or the other, they’re going to have to adjust.”
The proposed changes are in response to a government-commissioned report released last week that included 173 recommendations addressing precarious work. The Changing Workplaces review concluded that new technology, a shrinking manufacturing sector and fewer union jobs, among other factors, have left approximately one-third of Ontario’s 6.6 million workers vulnerable.
Labour Minister Kevin Flynn said Tuesday that because of the province’s strong economy the government can move forward with the minimum wage increase. He pointed to studies written in recent years by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the Center for Economic and Policy Research and the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives that support the move.
“This money (people are) going to be making goes right back into the economy,” Flynn said. “This doesn’t go into trust funds or this doesn’t go offshore. This goes right back to Main Street.”
Asked how businesses could prepare, Flynn suggested they will have to find ways to absorb the increase.
“Well, I think they could look at pricing, obviously that’s one thing that obviously any business would do,” he said.
Progressive Conservative Leader Patrick Brown said those comments can only mean one thing; the government expects businesses will pass on the wage increase to consumers.
“It just shows how out of touch this government is,” Brown said. “They think you can just raise the prices on everything. Families are struggling right now to afford their hydro bills.”
Brown said he supports the minimum wage increase but would like to see it phased in over a longer period of time.
NDP leader Andrea Horwath said the Liberal government rushed its plan without helping prepare small business. If it had started this transition years ago it could have mitigated the impact, she said.
“That’s what happens when the Liberals do things for political purposes ... and (are) trying to get a bump in the polls,” she said.
Groups representing both small and large businesses across Ontario have warned that the minimum wage increase would lead to layoffs. Karl Baldauf, spokesperson for the Keep Ontario Working Coalition, said that group conducted its own economic analysis of the minimum wage increase which concluded over 185,000 jobs could be impacted by the hike. The FAO report illustrates why the government should proceed with caution, he said.
“(The government) needs to conduct an independent economic analysis and they need to adjust their plan depending upon what that analysis proves to them,” Baldauf said.
Ontario minimum wage hike threatens 50,000 jobs: Watchdog | Ontario | News | Tor

Liberals' minimum wage increase has Ontario restaurateurs fearing the worst
By Jenny Yuen, Toronto Sun
First posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 06:47 PM EDT | Updated: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 06:58 PM EDT
A Financial Accountability Office report warns the Liberal government’s plan to hike the hourly minimum wage to $15 as of Jan. 1, 2019 will kill at least 50,000 jobs. Ontario restaurateurs and small business owners are vowing to fight back before those changes come into effect. The current minimum wage — 11.40 an hour — will go up by 20 cents on Oct. 1.
Mark McEwan, celebrity chef and restaurant owner
—What’s your reaction to the number of predicted job losses?
“It’s of tremendous concern for us because I go back to listening to (Premier) Kathleen Wynne talking about how this will be a boon for the economy. I thought that was one of the most absurd comments I’d ever heard, because everyone is already starting to raise prices ... Our industry has figured anywhere from 6% to 10% rise in prices.”
— Do you think this wage hike was a way for the Liberals to attract votes in next year’s provincial election?
“Everyone’s going to look at the person who got the $2 wage increase and they’re going to want the same thing. In a super competitive environment, it’s hard to raise prices. It’s vote-baiting in such an obvious form that I just want to scream.”
— How will your businesses be impacted?
“You start adding water to a pond, it floats all boats. Everyone is going to feel entitled and it’s going to drive wages up everywhere. It’s going to drive costs up everywhere and me as an employer, I have to look at it realistically and build my businesses to be more efficient with fewer bodies. Before I ever change my level of service, I would change my pricing structure and hope for the best.”
— What’s the relationship with small businesses and the government at this point?
“Canadian government is at war with small businesses. They look at it like they all have bags of money in our basements and that we can afford everything and everything gets leveraged on our backs every single time — when we’re the incubator for jobs, not the government.”
Aaron Barberian, owner of Barberian’s Steak House
— What’s your reaction to the number of predicted job losses?
“Absolutely no surprise. I thought the number would come in higher. You’re never going to cure poverty with a minimum wage increase. They need to lower their cost of living for people with modest means, not increase labour costs.”
— Restaurateurs are among the largest industries to be hit. How will it affect your business?
“There is the increase in paid vacation, going from two weeks to three weeks. There are paid sick days and under the new legislations, small business owners are not allowed to ask for a doctor’s note. There are many other costs associated ... Restaurants have already been hit hard this year on the province’s decision to raise tax on alcohol.”
— Who is most affected in your restaurant?
“Restaurants employ the most amount of people at minimum wage. All our servers — who are really salesmen — are making minimum wage, but they make gratuities that push them well over into the upper half of earners in Ontario, at Barberian’s. We see everyone across the board is going to be looking at a 30% increase in their wages.”
— Are you worried this will put you out of business?
“Barberian’s being a tradition in Toronto for nearly 60 years and having a good mix of clientele from all over the world, I will survive. I can raise my prices. I will cut staffing a little bit to survive. My fear is for my fellow restaurateurs, my suppliers who will face bankruptcy, my fear is for all the great employees. We’re all suffering from this. It’s a shock to the system.”
Shannon Stewart, owner of Covet — The Community Closet, Stratford
— Tell me about your staffing.
“It takes me 90 days to train an adult worker and so when I hire a student, I recognize it’s going to take me double that time. At $10.70 an hour (existing student minimum wage), it’s a good investment for me. But when it goes up to $14.10 (the new student rate in 2019), I’m just going to add an extra 90 cents an hour and hire an adult worker. I love my staff. I don’t pay them minimum wage, I do when they start and we have a performance-based system for the first 90 days, so the wages go up if you achieve your goal. But this bill will mean we won’t be able to hire people just to train them.”
— What’s your reaction to the number of predicted job losses?
“I am not going to be able to afford a student next year. I love the youth, the ability to train, their energy, but there’s no way. You’re adding 32% to my labour costs, and on top of that, there’s the payroll tax. My student job is essentially going to be cut and I think that’s the demographic that will be most affected. I don’t think people will be hiring students. They’ll find an adult that will work part-time.”
— What’s the ripple effect?
“I think we’re going to be working a lot harder. My other full-time employee and I aren’t going to have weekends off. Right now, we’re able to toggle because the student works every weekend ... I don’t see me being able to open on Sundays, which is a convenience for people.”
— What do you think of the way the government is implementing this hike?
“I think it’s going to be devastating to smaller businesses that don’t have the ability to raise their prices because of the market and I really do think you’re going to see mom and pop shops close.”
jyuen@postmedia.com
Liberals' minimum wage increase has Ontario restaurateurs fearing the worst | On
 
Walter
#81
But it makes the lefties feel good, so who cares if it does good.
 
spaminator
#82
Minimum wage hike will mean spike in unemployment: Study
By Jane Stevenson, Toronto Sun
First posted: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 08:02 AM EDT | Updated: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 08:11 AM EDT
TORONTO - The Ontario government’s plan to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour in 2019 — a whopping 32% increase from where it currently sits at $11.40 — could lead to more unemployment for younger and less skilled workers, particularly outside Toronto.
This according to a new study released Tuesday by the Fraser Institute.
“Ontario is going into uncharted waters right now,” explained the study’s co-author Ben Eisen, director of the institute’s Ontario Prosperity Initiative. “With a minimum wage that’s much higher relative to its median wage ($22.12), which is the average amount earned by the typical person working in the economy, and that is the case in any other jurisdiction in Canada. So it’s a big change in policy that’s creating real risks in terms of disemployment effects.”
Eisen says the effect will be even worse outside of Toronto in places like London, Windsor-Sarnia, Stratford-Bruce Peninsula, Niagara Peninsula, and Kingston-Pembroke, which has “substantially lower average wages.”
The study found that when the minimum wage is low, relative to the average wage (in 2017 in Toronto it was $30.72), there is a small, even negligible effect on job loss.
But when the minimum wage passes 45% of the average wage, the negative economic impact for younger, lower-skilled workers grows more severe.
Overall for Ontario, a $15-an-hour minimum wage will equal 55% of the average wage, according to the study.
As an alternative, Eisen offers: “The most important thing that governments can do is to work to ensure that the conditions are right for economic growth and job creation. Where you have a competitive environment that’s attractive for investment, attractive for job creation, attractive for entrepreneurship, that helps create upward pressure on wages through the market. That’s step one.”
Ontario’s current minimum wage puts it second among the top provinces in Canada, with Alberta leading the way at $12.20 an hour. The lowest is Saskatchewan at $10.72 an hour.
However, Labour Minister Kevin Flynn said increases to the minimum wage are good for the economy, citing the Liberal government has boosted the minimum wage by 70% since 2003, and Ontario currently has its lowest unemployment rate in more than a decade.
“Many leading economists share this belief,” Flynn said in a statement. “Studies written over the past number of years – including work done by the OECD, the Center for Economic and Policy Research and the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives – lay out the long-term benefits of higher wages for low-income workers, as well as the economic benefits that come with alleviating this problem.”
Flynn added that the Ontario Liberals will not “back down from this commitment.”
THREE FAST POINTS
The rapid 32% increase of Ontario’s minimum wage to $15 per hour in less than 18 months could reduce employment opportunities for young and less skilled workers.
If the increase goes through, the ratio of Ontario’s minimum-to-median wage will be the highest in Canada and much higher than nearby and competing states in the U.S.
Major negative employment effects would be greater in Ontario’s economically weaker regions where market wage levels are much lower than in Toronto.
jstevenson@postmedia.com
Minimum wage hike will mean spike in unemployment: Study | Ontario | News | Toro
 
Bar Sinister
#83
Quote: Originally Posted by spaminator View Post

Minimum wage hike will mean spike in unemployment: Study
By Jane Stevenson, Toronto Sun
First posted: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 08:02 AM EDT | Updated: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 08:11 AM EDT
TORONTO - The Ontario government’s plan to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour in 2019 — a whopping 32% increase from where it currently sits at $11.40 — could lead to more unemployment for younger and less skilled workers, particularly outside Toronto.
This according to a new study released Tuesday by the Fraser Institute.
“Ontario is going into uncharted waters right now,” explained the study’s co-author Ben Eisen, director of the institute’s Ontario Prosperity Initiative. “With a minimum wage that’s much higher relative to its median wage ($22.12), which is the average amount earned by the typical person working in the economy, and that is the case in any other jurisdiction in Canada. So it’s a big change in policy that’s creating real risks in terms of disemployment effects.”
Eisen says the effect will be even worse outside of Toronto in places like London, Windsor-Sarnia, Stratford-Bruce Peninsula, Niagara Peninsula, and Kingston-Pembroke, which has “substantially lower average wages.”
The study found that when the minimum wage is low, relative to the average wage (in 2017 in Toronto it was $30.72), there is a small, even negligible effect on job loss.
But when the minimum wage passes 45% of the average wage, the negative economic impact for younger, lower-skilled workers grows more severe.
Overall for Ontario, a $15-an-hour minimum wage will equal 55% of the average wage, according to the study.
As an alternative, Eisen offers: “The most important thing that governments can do is to work to ensure that the conditions are right for economic growth and job creation. Where you have a competitive environment that’s attractive for investment, attractive for job creation, attractive for entrepreneurship, that helps create upward pressure on wages through the market. That’s step one.”
Ontario’s current minimum wage puts it second among the top provinces in Canada, with Alberta leading the way at $12.20 an hour. The lowest is Saskatchewan at $10.72 an hour.
However, Labour Minister Kevin Flynn said increases to the minimum wage are good for the economy, citing the Liberal government has boosted the minimum wage by 70% since 2003, and Ontario currently has its lowest unemployment rate in more than a decade.
“Many leading economists share this belief,” Flynn said in a statement. “Studies written over the past number of years – including work done by the OECD, the Center for Economic and Policy Research and the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives – lay out the long-term benefits of higher wages for low-income workers, as well as the economic benefits that come with alleviating this problem.”
Flynn added that the Ontario Liberals will not “back down from this commitment.”
THREE FAST POINTS
The rapid 32% increase of Ontario’s minimum wage to $15 per hour in less than 18 months could reduce employment opportunities for young and less skilled workers.
If the increase goes through, the ratio of Ontario’s minimum-to-median wage will be the highest in Canada and much higher than nearby and competing states in the U.S.
Major negative employment effects would be greater in Ontario’s economically weaker regions where market wage levels are much lower than in Toronto.
jstevenson@postmedia.com
Minimum wage hike will mean spike in unemployment: Study | Ontario | News | Toro

It's the Fraser Institute. It is a pro-big business organization funded by corporate Canada. Its rants are usually based on little or no evidence.
 
pgs
#84
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

It's the Fraser Institute. It is a pro-big business organization funded by corporate Canada. Its rants are usually based on little or no evidence.

Shoot the messenger .
 
Jinentonix
+1
#85
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

It's the Fraser Institute. It is a pro-big business organization funded by corporate Canada. Its rants are usually based on little or no evidence.

Bullshit. Morons seem to think that the only wages that will go up is the minimum wage. When you crank up the minimum wage by 24% over such a short period of time you pretty much have to increase other wages as well. If you currently have people already being paid $15-$16/hr because of the time they've put in, or because they've had extra training, or because they have greater responsibilities, they won't be very happy when they're getting the same pay rate as the lower level employees.
Within a large part of the retail sector for instance, dept managers only get paid a few dollars an hour more than the minimum wage. I'm not talking about store managers but the actual dept managers. Raise the minimum wage and you have to raise the dept managers wages as well. Cooks in restaurants won't be happy when dishwashers end up making more than they do. Right now in Ontario the average salary for a restaurant cook is $13.43/hr.

When you apply minimum wage increases, it's better to do it incrementally. Otherwise when you do something stupid like crank them up by 24% in one shot, you affect the wages of a lot more than just those making the minimum wage, which will be difficult for many small businesses to handle.
Couple that with Trudeau's attack on small business and small business in Ontario will pretty much dry up and blow away.
 
petros
+1
#86
Sobeys said they will be raising the price of groceries. Now these new taxpayers are in the same place they started.
 
ZulFiqar786
#87
A $15 minimum wage will slaughter so many small businesses especially shops. This premier is totally incompetent and out of touch with her small business constituency. We need something like a recall that got rid of Gray Davis in California
 
captain morgan
#88
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

Shoot the messenger .

Big business supports the Pembina Institute as well.... Funny how their opinions are rarely challenged on that basis by the usual suspects

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Sobeys said they will be raising the price of groceries. Now these new taxpayers are in the same place they started.

No different than the carbon tax... All the mental midgets think that they are really sticking it to da Man on that to
 
Bar Sinister
-1
#89
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinentonix View Post

Bullshit. Morons seem to think that the only wages that will go up is the minimum wage. When you crank up the minimum wage by 24% over such a short period of time you pretty much have to increase other wages as well. If you currently have people already being paid $15-$16/hr because of the time they've put in, or because they've had extra training, or because they have greater responsibilities, they won't be very happy when they're getting the same pay rate as the lower level employees.
Within a large part of the retail sector for instance, dept managers only get paid a few dollars an hour more than the minimum wage. I'm not talking about store managers but the actual dept managers. Raise the minimum wage and you have to raise the dept managers wages as well. Cooks in restaurants won't be happy when dishwashers end up making more than they do. Right now in Ontario the average salary for a restaurant cook is $13.43/hr.

When you apply minimum wage increases, it's better to do it incrementally. Otherwise when you do something stupid like crank them up by 24% in one shot, you affect the wages of a lot more than just those making the minimum wage, which will be difficult for many small businesses to handle.
Couple that with Trudeau's attack on small business and small business in Ontario will pretty much dry up and blow away.

I've heard all that before. And yet in places where the minimum wage has actually been increased there is no evidence of a negative impact. That is probably due to the fact that the total increase in business costs is estimated to be less than 10%. Not only that but every business is affected in the same way, resulting in no advantage for anyone. And your restaurant cook example seems rather pointless given that they will be one of those receiving an increase. And in Alberta it is being done incrementally and apparently that is the case in Ontario as well if 2019 is the intended date of the final raise.
 
WLDB
#90
If businesses can't afford to pay a living wage they can't afford the cost of business. I'm well above $15 so the raise won't affect me all that much.

Quote: Originally Posted by Danbones View Post

Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Service Kiosks Nationwide
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi.../#534aadd4fbc6
That's ROBOTS for those of you that learned to read in school

It used to be the leftii would just force everyone down to labor camp payscale
now they got bots that can work cheaper

Quite a few places already had self checkouts. I first noticed them around 2011 which was years before this announcement. These bots were coming either way. People also tend to forget that there still needs to be people behind the machine both for maintenance and to prepare whatever the order is. The bots may be cheaper but if you totally eliminated the people around them the business would lose a lot of money to theft. It's pretty easy to get around those things if you want to and if no ones looking. I've never done it but I've seen it happen.
 

Similar Threads

13
24
Making the minimum wage a living wage
by marygaspe | Feb 10th, 2007