Ever take a close look at the 10 Commandments?


L Gilbert
#1
lol

I am paraphrasing Christopher Hitchens who was on CBC radio today.

Quote:

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

Ahah!! There are other gods.

Quote:

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

No art? How tedious.

Quote:

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

This one and the first two display a distinct insecurity on the part of the issuer. Considering, this god is supposed to be omnipotent, all I can say is "go figger".

Quote:

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

This one and the first 3 have exactly what to do with morality?

Quote:

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

... unless he/she/both are homidical maniacs, hopelessly addicted to booze or drugs, abusive, etc. And nothing mentioned about abusing kids either. Nothing to potect them.

Quote:

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

.... unless it's because god said to. lmao Most societies kind of frown on lying, killing, and stealing anyway.

Quote:

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

This is pretty cool, I suppose.

Quote:

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

See above for comments.

Quote:

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

Ditto.

Quote:

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

Here we have a big problem, too. What is coveting? Isn't it just the thought that one gets when the neighbor gets an awesome lawnmower? Does anyone else see a problem with thought control?
 
Ron in Regina
#2
What if the Ten Commandments where written today? What would they look like?
 
L Gilbert
#3
The golden rule. lol I don't mean A.N. Onymous's version either. (He who has the gold makes the rules)
The first golden rule: treat others as you'd like them to treat you.
 
Cliffy
#4
Number two about craven images: what are those bleeding Jesus' doing in the churches, and the mother Mary statues, angels etc. Seems to me the church has been breaking rule 2 from the get go.
 
L Gilbert
#5
Not to mention all the stained glass windows.
 
Dexter Sinister
#6
George Carlin does a nice 7 minute deconstruction of the 10 Commandments
here.
He gets them down to two, and adds a third one I like: thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

Not Safe For Work; like a lot of Carlin's monologues, it's sprinkled with words you might not want people to hear coming out of your cubicle.
 
bobnoorduyn
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Number two about craven images: what are those bleeding Jesus' doing in the churches, and the mother Mary statues, angels etc. Seems to me the church has been breaking rule 2 from the get go.

You're not the only one, a lot of what I might call purists agree, but those particular churches break a lot more rules than that, and make up some of their own nonsensical ones to boot.
 
bobnoorduyn
#8
TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
No art? How tedious.

L. either you are paraphrasing or Christopher Hitchens left out a big part, the part that these graven images, or idols, would be objects of worship, which as Cliffy mentions are in some cases used for that purpose by some churches.


Quote: TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'
Here we have a big problem, too. What is coveting? Isn't it just the thought that one gets when the neighbor gets an awesome lawnmower? Does anyone else see a problem with thought control?

The coveting is not wanting another lawnmower like your neighbour's, but wanting your neighbours lawnmower. Kind of like greed and envy, desperately wanting your neighbour's stuff. As for thought control, no one is enforcing it except yourself if you so choose.

People like Christopher Hitchens make a living at picking apart the scriptures, putting their own spin on it and selling books. I think he's full of crap, he just puts snippets of truth into his arguments to make them sound believable, just like used car and vacuum salesmen.





 
Dexter Sinister
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
No art? How tedious.

L. either you are paraphrasing or Christopher Hitchens left out a big part, the part that these graven images, or idols, would be objects of worship

It's only in Exodus that the proscription about making graven images is followed by remarks about not bowing down to them. There are four other places in the OT where the rule is repeated, notably Deuteronomy 4:16-18, then again in verse 23, and verse 25, where it's pretty clear that no statuary of any kind is allowed, for any reason, it's a blanket prohibition.

Hitchens is right. Religion clouds the mind and poisons everything.
 
Cliffy
#10
Religion is nothing more than a politically expedient way to control the masses with mind boggling BS. God has been nothing more than the power behind the throne, a personification of the Pharaoh, King, Emperor in a bigger than life, scarier spook mode. But the religious will defend to the death their right to be controlled and lied to.
 
L Gilbert
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

George Carlin does a nice 7 minute deconstruction of the 10 Commandments
here.
He gets them down to two, and adds a third one I like: thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

Not Safe For Work; like a lot of Carlin's monologues, it's sprinkled with words you might not want people to hear coming out of your cubicle.

lol Yeah, I'd forgotten about this.
 
johnnyhangover
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

The first golden rule: treat others as you'd like them to treat you.

and that just about sums it up. i mean, really, do we need any others?
 
karrie
#13
Sometimes these forums just feel so damn....

 
lone wolf
#14
I have coveted my neighbour's ass.....
 
bobnoorduyn
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

It's only in Exodus that the proscription about making graven images is followed by remarks about not bowing down to them. There are four other places in the OT where the rule is repeated, notably Deuteronomy 4:16-18, then again in verse 23, and verse 25, where it's pretty clear that no statuary of any kind is allowed, for any reason, it's a blanket prohibition.

How often does it have to be repeated what is meant by a graven image, the context of the message seems clear to me, but I'm not trying to pick it apart like a lawyer does with a judge's ruling he doesn't like.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Hitchens is right. Religion clouds the mind and poisons everything.

...and wishes to leave mankind to invent its own morality. People will use religion as an excuse to do bad things, its convenient, failing that they will use any excuse. He is like the gun grabbers, laying the blame on the tools rather than on the ones who misuse them for evil.
 
L Gilbert
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
No art? How tedious.

L. either you are paraphrasing or Christopher Hitchens left out a big part, the part that these graven images, or idols, would be objects of worship, which as Cliffy mentions are in some cases used for that purpose by some churches.

I did say that I was paraphrasing Hitchens. Perhaps I should have mentionmed that I left out a lot because it was a few hours before posting that'd I had listened to him on the radio. My memeory isn't what it used to be.


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

Quote:

Here we have a big problem, too. What is coveting? Isn't it just the thought that one gets when the neighbor gets an awesome lawnmower? Does anyone else see a problem with thought control?

The coveting is not wanting another lawnmower like your neighbour's, but wanting your neighbours lawnmower. Kind of like greed and envy, desperately wanting your neighbour's stuff. As for thought control, no one is enforcing it except yourself if you so choose.

People like Christopher Hitchens make a living at picking apart the scriptures, putting their own spin on it and selling books. I think he's full of crap, he just puts snippets of truth into his arguments to make them sound believable, just like used car and vacuum salesmen.

Perhaps he is, perhaps not. I don't make a habit of shooting messengers, myself.
But,I defy anyone to tell me they haven't wanted something a neighbor, friend, relative, coworker, etc. has had, though, and be truthful about it. So as soon as we start living we're toast, according to the commandments.
 
karrie
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

I have coveted my neighbour's ass.....

Well, so long as it was just to use it and give it back when you're done, I think you're okay.
 
karrie
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post


[left][b][color=blue]Perhaps he is, perhaps not. I don't make a habit of shooting messengers, myself.
But,I defy anyone to tell me they haven't wanted something a neighbor, friend, relative, coworker, etc. has had, though, and be truthful about it. So as soon as we start living we're toast, according to the commandments.

I've wanted stuff, but absolutely in the way bob puts it. I haven't wanted to take what they have away from them. Just go get myself something like it. There's a difference between admiring and coveting.
 
L Gilbert
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by johnnyhangover View Post

and that just about sums it up. i mean, really, do we need any others?

Nope. And that particular rule predates Christianity and Islam. It's been mentioned in Hinduism for millenia, Confucius also mentioned it.
 
L Gilbert
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

How often does it have to be repeated what is meant by a graven image, the context of the message seems clear to me, but I'm not trying to pick it apart like a lawyer does with a judge's ruling he doesn't like.



...and wishes to leave mankind to invent its own morality. People will use religion as an excuse to do bad things, its convenient, failing that they will use any excuse. He is like the gun grabbers, laying the blame on the tools rather than on the ones who misuse them for evil.

Hitchens is right. He also said people don't do nasty things in the name of their religion, they do things because its demanded by their religion.
 
Cliffy
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

Hitchens is right. He also said people don't do nasty things in the name of their religion, they do things because its demanded by their religion.

Is there somewhere in the bible that says abortions are bad or that is OK to kill anybody who performs them? I would think that a person would have to have a few genes or brain cells missing to take a book of fiction literally.
 
L Gilbert
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

I've wanted stuff, but absolutely in the way bob puts it. I haven't wanted to take what they have away from them. Just go get myself something like it. There's a difference between admiring and coveting.

Yup. Admiring is thinking something is pleasant. Coveting is wishing one had it.
Fortunately most people have a sense of decency in spite of religions' view that we would all be evil were it not for them.
 
L Gilbert
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Is there somewhere in the bible that says abortions are bad or that is OK to kill anybody who performs them? I would think that a person would have to have a few genes or brain cells missing to take a book of fiction literally.

I'm the wrong one to ask because I have forgotten almost everything I read in the book. But, I did find this
Quote:

"If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
"And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth . . ."--Ex. 21:22-25

which seems to suggest it isn't all that bad to cause a woman to abort, but it is bad to kill her.
 
L Gilbert
#24
Quote:

Deuteronomy 17
17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

The meaning of this is pretty evident
 
karrie
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

I'm the wrong one to ask because I have forgotten almost everything I read in the book. But, I did find this which seems to suggest it isn't all that bad to cause a woman to abort, but it is bad to kill her.
[/indent]

yeah, but, that doesn't really address abortion so much as it addresses violence against a pregnant woman.

To me (and definitely most pro-life people) the key one that addresses abortion is right there in your OP, only it's often worded 'kill' rather than 'murder', and that condemns the murder of Tiller too.
 
Socrates the Greek
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

George Carlin does a nice 7 minute deconstruction of the 10 Commandments
here.
He gets them down to two, and adds a third one I like: thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

Not Safe For Work; like a lot of Carlin's monologues, it's sprinkled with words you might not want people to hear coming out of your cubicle.

Bravo Dexter, good old George hit the nail on the head all ten times.
 
Socrates the Greek
#27
Amazing people believe some of this crap



“Obey Thy Ten Commandments, Or Else”:
There are many Christians and Jews who demand that the Ten Commandments should be displayed in public institutions. In my opinion it is only fair that if the commandments are to be displayed, so should the penalties for breaking those commandments. Matter of fact they should be posted in its entirety so that society can see just what kind of crap these religions are feeding us. I also encourage those of you Judeo/Christians who visit here to print out this very list and post it where your children can see it. It’s time you explain to them what a murderous, unjust god you brainwash them into worshiping.
1st. Commandment, Exodus 20:3 “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”. Old Testament punishment - Deuteronomy 17:1-5 “And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heavens, which I have not commanded. Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing and shalt stone them with stones, till they die”. Deuteronomy 13:6-10, “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is of thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God." Exodus 22:20 “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed”. New Testament punishment - Mark 16:16 “He that believeth not, shall be damned”.
2nd. Commandment, Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below.” Old Testament punishment- Deuteronomy 27: 1 5 “Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image.” That’s right kids don’t EVER draw, sculpt or paint or else god will curse you. Wanna be an artist, a photographer, take a picture of yourself or family? TOO BAD, God says no! You better drop out of art class before he smites you with boils.
3rd. Commandment, Exodus 20:7 “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 24:16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death”, New Testament punishment - Matthew 12:32 “Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come”. Mark 3:29 - “He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgivness, but is in danger of eternal damnation”.
4th. Commandment, Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 31:15 “Whosoever shall work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death”. Numbers 15:32. “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day…And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
5th. Commandment, Exodus 20:12 “Honour thy father and thy mother”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 21:15-17 “And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death”. More punishment - Exodus 21:17 “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death”.
6th. Commandment, Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill”. Strangely enough this is a commandment despite all the punishments that require death in the New Testament and the Old Testament. How can thou not kill when thou is commanded to kill at the same time? This hypocrisy should be pointed out if the ten commandments are posted in schools, court rooms and buildings of legislation. The confusion of this commandment would surely bring capitol punishment into question.
7th. Commandment, Exodus 20:14 “Thou shalt not commit adultery”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 20:10 “And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death”.
I am working on compiling the list of punishments for commandments 8, 9, and 10. They should be up by then. In the mean while I have several other random commands by god that are quite interesting which I have listed here. The following command is very relevant for it requires a mandatory belief in the biblical god. Following the Ten Commandments, which are also listed in Deuteronomy 5:7-21, there are a number of curses which shall come upon thee, and overtake thee. These curses are given in Deuteronomy 28:17-68. Space does not permit all of them to be quoted, but a few are that the Lord will smite thee with consumption, fever, hemorrhoids, scab, madness, blindness, boils, and many more even worse.
For those of you Christians who disregard the Old Testament (even though Christ said it was forever binding), I have gathered together a great law from the New Testament. Romans 1 :29-32 “Those filled with unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hate for god, despite, proud, boasters, inventions of evil things, disobedience to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, unnatural affection, implacable or unmerciful nature: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death”.
Now I have had the displeasure of meeting many a Christian and I have one to meet as of yet, whom according to this list, are NOT worthy of death. How many of us feel envy, wish to fornicate, boast or gossip? How many Christians are guilty of debating? Why every day some Christian is debating the word of god or his dogmas with me. Every day I am the victim of deceit and despite at the hands of some Christian verbally harassing me for my beliefs. No wonder why god said that there shall only be 144,000 in the heaven out of all his followers.
In Conclusion:
Christians and Jews should post the commandments up in their parochial schools and in their churches/temples. But, if they insist on doing so they should print out this very page and hang it up for all to see. Don’t be a half-ass religionist; educate your children on what God truly commands. Stop thriving on telling half truths about your Bible/Pentateuch and publish the WHOLE story. Most importantly, do not think you have the right to post them in public institutions. It is MY job to educate MY child. Children need to learn the true meaning of love, compassion, morality, forgiveness and mercy. Not the filthy dogmas your Jehovah commands. Quite frankly, in comparison to hell-fire and damnation I’ll stick with Big Bird.
 
JLM
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

What if the Ten Commandments where written today? What would they look like?

It would be scary, Ron but would include all the original sins plus a few more like skulduggery, embezzlement, perjury BUT encouraging them if that is what is necessary to keep ahead of the Joneses.
 
karrie
#29
Okay, so, this is the bee in my bonnet today, and rather than start a new thread about it, I'm just going to post it here and hope that dissecting a single interpretation issue isn't too big a deal.

THOU SHALT NOT KILL

I know it annoys the atheists to no end when us religious types say this, but, the New Testament, the Bible as it is most pertinent to Christians, upholds this commandment just fine. Calls to kill in God's name are Old Testament. They do not apply.

THOU SHALT NOT MURDER

Interpretations are a lovely thing, and I would like to say, do not, ever, trust a person, a church, or a government, who words the sixth commandment this way. Murder. It's not the same thing as killing to many people. Murder is something you do when you're going against social order. What you do when your government, or your church, call you to kill, is generally not called 'murder'. What you do when you feel your religion dictates that someone must die, is not 'murder'. And thus one can easily soothe their conscience from having followed their convictions down the path to ending someone's life. They can easily excuse the death penalty, they can easily excuse war time bombing, they can easily excuse the death of an abortion doctor.

Thou shalt not kill.
 
SirJosephPorter
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Is there somewhere in the bible that says abortions are bad or that is OK to kill anybody who performs them? I would think that a person would have to have a few genes or brain cells missing to take a book of fiction literally.

Cliffy, i don't think the word 'abortion' is mentioned anywhere in the Bible.
 

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