Immigration Confab Asks If Immigration Is Working, Maybe not


dumpthemonarchy
+1
#1  Top Rated Post
Big immiration confab in Vancouver for experts at the Sheraton.

Some solutions:

1. cut immigration to 100,000 per year
2. have half come from Europe
3. end the Asiatic fatalistic belief that high immigration levels are inevitable
4. don't let anyone call you racist if you want to discuss immigration, this is policy, not religious dogma and it can be changed by human decisions

Immigration has been something of a taboo issue for the country for some decades, it is time to bring a discussion of this issue more into the open. What was started 20 years years can be adjusted. especially we are getting homegrown terrorists like the Toronto 18-if that's not a wake up call, I don't know what is. There are too many ethnic enclaves that prevent assimilation of immigrants which exist because of high immigration numbers.

In the Sun paper the headline called this a "thorny" issue. Time to defang it.



1,000 experts in Vancouver to weigh if immigration working - The Search
1,000 experts in Vancouver to weigh if immigration working



By Douglas Todd 23 Mar 2011
How can Canada stop immigrant groups from turning out religious ra dicals, with some bent on terrorism in the name of God?

Given that many newcomers arrive from countries where homosexuality is illegal, how can Canada support immigrants who feel forced to hide that they are gay or lesbian?

Are Canadians being too laissez-faire about whether fresh arrivals know English or French? Some believe the limited expectations Canada places upon new arrivals lead to ethnic enclaves.

These are some of the long-disputed topics that will be debated at a massive Vancouver conference on immigration sponsored by Metropolis B.C., one of five Canadian think-tanks financed by governments to research and create dialogue on multicultural issues.

Only 400 people attended the first national Metropolis conference 15 years ago. This time, however, more than 1,000 people are expected to take part in the scores of presentations and workshops planned for Metropolis 2011, which runs Wednesday to Saturday at the Sheraton Wall Centre (right).

"The government of Canada started to raise immigration numbers in the late 1980s and, by the early 1990s, there were many questions raised about the outcome of the new policy," says University of B.C. geographer Daniel Hiebert (below left), who is a co-director of Metropolis B.C.

The five regional Metropolis centres were created to answer some of those difficult questions, which come with Canada having the highest immigration rate per capita in the world -roughly 250,000 arrivals a year, the vast majority from Asia.

There may be no more important topic to Canadians, especially Metro Vancouver and other urban residents, than immigration and its impacts -on culture, housing, schools, business and our collective values.

Even though the vast majority of new immigrants flock to Canada's major cities, the entire country is being dramatically shaped by immigration. Statistics Canada projects that, by 2031, almost one-half of the population over the age of 15 will be foreign-born or have at least one foreign-born parent.

Already in Metro Vancouver today, more than two out of five residents were born outside the country, a statistic that experts say makes the West Coast metropolis one of the most "cosmopolitan" in the world, along with Toronto and London, England.

The British Council, which monitors immigration policy around the globe, recently ranked Canada third best in the world for its ability to integrate immigrants, behind Sweden and Portugal.

But signs of discomfort are rising to the surface across the nation.

For instance, many observers believe the newly elected mayor of Toronto, Rob Ford, topped the polls in part because he had suggested Toronto had no more room for immigrants.

In recent years the Canadian public, says Hiebert, has developed three competing responses to immigration.

One message the media give out is that high immigration is "necessary" and "inevitable," because Canada's low fertility rate will lead to a labour shortage, Hiebert wrote in a recent paper with Nadine Schuurman and Heather Smith.

A second argument often aired by academics and commentators is that immigration patterns are failing because newcomers and migrant workers aren't doing well, are eating up tax dollars and are lowering wages for those who already live here, Hiebert et al. observe in their paper, titled Multiculturalism on the Ground.

The third key response of Canadians, say the authors, is that too many immigrants are "choosing" to live in ethnic enclaves - and that Canadians' famous tolerance is leading to racial isolation and mutual indifference.

Even though the researchers say it's too early to tell which analysis will prove to be the most accurate in the long run, Hiebert and his fellow researchers say one thing is true: "Multiculturalism isn't working that well for visible-minority newcomers."

Even though Canadians fear of growing ethnic "ghettos" and "race riots" are exaggerated, the researchers maintain the jury is out on whether full economic and social integration of visible-minority immigrants will ever occur.

Roughly one-third of those trying to shed some light on these burning immigration issues at Metropolis 2011 this week will be academic researchers, another third are government officials and the rest come from nonprofit organizations that work with immigrants and refugees.

Some of the more significant plenaries and workshops at Metropolis 2011 will delve into:

. Whether religions may be radicalizing some immigrants.

Canadian investigators, including the University of Victoria's Paul Bramadat, have been looking into how some Sikh, Tamil, Muslim and other groups may be fuelling extremist attitudes, especially among young people.

. The pros and cons of building multiple religious edifices along Richmond's "Highway to Heaven."

UBC's Justin Tse and David Ley will be among those explaining how planners can work with religious groups to raise the likelihood spirituality will aid integration, not division or hate.

. Gay and lesbian immigrants fear discrimination by their own communities. B.C. researchers are uncovering evidence that homosexual immigrants live in terror of rejection by their own ethnic group, as well as by the nonprofit service agencies set up to help newcomers.

. Comparing Canadian attitudes to Sweden's generous approach.

Despite receiving the world's highest ranking for the way they welcome immigrants and refugees, Swedes are increasingly worried newcomers are settling into self-imposed ghettos, characterized b y poverty and illiteracy. Could the same thing be happening here?

. Is it useful to collect race-based criminal justice statistics?

Some Canadian researchers are looking into the ethnic breakdown among prison populations, while others are developing strategies to work with young immigrants who are tempted to join gangs.

. Marriages of convenience.

These sham unions are a growing scourge among immigrant communities and for immigration officials - with many supposedly "married" newcomers arriving safely in Canada only to immediately betray, abuse or leave their partners.

In addition to creating a forum for these significant discussions, Metropolis B.C. has funded a series of its own fascinating research projects. They include: studying the consequences of 40 per cent of Simon Fraser University's students coming from homes where English is not the first language; researching whether B.C. employers discriminate against people based on their foreign-sounding names; and finding ways to encourage immigrant participation in the wider West Coast culture.

All of these issues and more deserve proper study.

They need to be better understood and responded to if Canada's grand experiment in mass immigration is to really succeed.

There is no point pretending, as do many politicians and others, that everything is going smoothly in regards to integrating hundreds of thousands of newcomers each year.

Although these and other immigration issues are strongly significant, Hiebert says the country's five Metropolis research and education centres are being wound down in 2012.

With government funding drying up, this will be the last Metropolis conference held in Vancouver.
 
PoliticalNick
+1
#2
I say stop all immigration except for those with special skills we invite until every Canadian has a job and our economy is fixed.

And before anyone starts this is not racist or anti-anyone it is pro-Canadian
 
Machjo
#3
[QUOTE=dumpthemonarchy;1398162]Big immiration confab in Vancouver for experts at the Sheraton.

Some solutions:

1. cut immigration to 100,000 per year[quote]

Let us not look for quantitative solutions, but rather qualitative ones. We ought to scrap any and all quotas and instead just raise the bar on the points system, especially when it comes to language competence.

Quote:

2. have half come from Europe

Europe, the US, Japan. What's the difference? I'd rather a Japanese immigrant who speaks English or French fluently and can integrate into the workforce easily over a German who can't speak a word of either language and has no qualifications. Let's look at qualitative rather than regionalist solutions.

Quote:

3. end the Asiatic fatalistic belief that high immigration levels are inevitable

And let's end the a priori belief that immigration is bad.

Quote:

4. don't let anyone call you racist if you want to discuss immigration, this is policy, not religious dogma and it can be changed by human decisions

But those human decisions don't come out of the blue, but from beliefs, possibly based on facts,but not always.
 
Corduroy
#4
Multiculturalism as an ideology is extremely superficial and we should probably keep it that way. Have you noticed how many sushi restaurants there are in Vancouver? You can't turn around in Richmond without walking into a Chinese restaurant. It's insane. But who can find a decent Thai restaurant? We need to increase Thai immigration.

PS: if you know of a good Thai restaurant in Vancouver, let me know.
 
JLM
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

Multiculturalism as an ideology is extremely superficial and we should probably keep it that way. Have you noticed how many sushi restaurants there are in Vancouver? You can't turn around in Richmond without walking into a Chinese restaurant. It's insane. But who can find a decent Thai restaurant? We need to increase Thai immigration.

PS: if you know of a good Thai restaurant in Vancouver, let me know.

There's a good one in Airway Heights (West of Spokane) But my wife found the food to be a little "warm"..........but you probably don't want to drive down there just for Thai food anyway.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

Multiculturalism as an ideology is extremely superficial and we should probably keep it that way. Have you noticed how many sushi restaurants there are in Vancouver? You can't turn around in Richmond without walking into a Chinese restaurant. It's insane. But who can find a decent Thai restaurant? We need to increase Thai immigration.

PS: if you know of a good Thai restaurant in Vancouver, let me know.

I was at a good Thai restaurant at Burrard and Smyth, across from a big theatre complex. Good food.

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick View Post

I say stop all immigration except for those with special skills we invite until every Canadian has a job and our economy is fixed.

And before anyone starts this is not racist or anti-anyone it is pro-Canadian

Immigration has moved too far away from practical business purposes and too much into faux humanitarianism by some zealous types that want to plow endless assistance at the world at taxpayer expense. Business can put ads on the web to get the people they want. The web is global, no?

We could also tighten up EI so people have to get work and end the wastage among rural, Atlantic Canadians and aboriginals. To balance that, I would offer better benefits, like 60% of your wage and two week waiting period. But there is no lazing around turning down jobs or not moving where the work is. This waste billions of dollars. We're just too nice here and we expect others to pay. Time for some politicians to show some backbone. Okay the pols won't we have to, the public.
 
PoliticalNick
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchy View Post

We could also tighten up EI so people have to get work and end the wastage among rural, Atlantic Canadians and aboriginals. To balance that, I would offer better benefits, like 60% of your wage and two week waiting period. But there is no lazing around turning down jobs or not moving where the work is. This waste billions of dollars. We're just too nice here and we expect others to pay. Time for some politicians to show some backbone. Okay the pols won't we have to, the public.

I don't know how much tighter you want EI. I have had 2 claims in my life. One about 24 years ago and one I am on now. After paying into the program for all that time I am lucky to recieve maximum benefits but they then deduct taxes and then take another 25% for a tax bill from last year. What is left does not even cover my mortgage let alone any other bills and I only get 40 weeks less the 2 week waiting period.
 
bill barilko
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

...if you know of a good Thai restaurant in Vancouver, let me know.

Thai Basil.

Classic hole-in-the-wall food is great sometimes stellar always reasonably priced.

All cooks are Thai speaking Thai nationals table help might not be.
Quote:

We could also tighten up EI so people have to get work and end the wastage among rural, Atlantic Canadians and aboriginals. To balance that, I would offer better benefits, like 60% of your wage and two week waiting period.

That's less than it is now-tell me how that will help the unemployed.

If you've visited Alberta before the crash you'd see that Atlantic Canada had pretty much emptied out-many have moved to Saskatchewan now.

The Real Problem is that immigrants all move to the same places-major cities-and couldn't care less about living in subarctic sh!tholes like Timmins or Brandon.

Of course I don't know anyone else who wants to live there either-not anyone in their right mind anyway.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick View Post

I don't know how much tighter you want EI. I have had 2 claims in my life. One about 24 years ago and one I am on now. After paying into the program for all that time I am lucky to recieve maximum benefits but they then deduct taxes and then take another 25% for a tax bill from last year. What is left does not even cover my mortgage let alone any other bills and I only get 40 weeks less the 2 week waiting period.

I haven't been on EI for about 20 years but from what I have heard, it sucks. It sucks because it caters to leeches like rural/aboriginals/fishermen who milk the system year after year and do not look and are not interested in long term employment. They suck away the lion's share of the benefits and political support for it. People know EI is abused and billions are wasted, but "politically" in Canada, we cannot change it like we cannot change the Senate, PEI's laughable status as province, or Quebec separatism.

We could lop billions off the deficit each year if we had a consistent and rational unemployment system. That is, ending support for long term abusers of EI.

And now more immigrants are going on EI because they lack English skills to get by these days.
 
JLM
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchy View Post

I haven't been on EI for about 20 years but from what I have heard, it sucks. It sucks because it caters to leeches like rural/aboriginals/fishermen who milk the system year after year and do not look and are not interested in long term employment. They suck away the lion's share of the benefits and political support for it. People know EI is abused and billions are wasted, but "politically" in Canada, we cannot change it like we cannot change the Senate, PEI's laughable status as province, or Quebec separatism.

We could lop billions off the deficit each year if we had a consistent and rational unemployment system. That is, ending support for long term abusers of EI.

And now more immigrants are going on EI because they lack English skills to get by these days.

Absolutely- E.I. should NEVER cover predictable circumstances, that are influenced whatsoever by the claimant.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Absolutely- E.I. should NEVER cover predictable circumstances, that are influenced whatsoever by the claimant.

Do you agree with me?
 
JLM
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchy View Post

Do you agree with me?

In that there is abuse of E.I.
 
dumpthemonarchy
+1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

In that there is abuse of E.I.

Yes.

And to make another point perfectly clear. Those who work and contrivute to EI can't get enough when they need it. Yet the chronic year after year offenders milk the system. So political support for EI drops.
 
JLM
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchy View Post

Yes.

And to make another point perfectly clear. Those who work and contrivute to EI can't get enough when they need it. Yet the chronic year after year offenders milk the system. So political support for EI drops.

The biggest misnomer about "E.I." is the "insurance" part, which is meant to cover unforseen circumstances- not planned certainties.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

The biggest misnomer about "E.I." is the "insurance" part, which is meant to cover unforseen circumstances- not planned certainties.

Getting laid off or fired is a certainty in the modern world. Should be called EB, employment benefits then. the name doesn't matter too much, it is how its run.
 
DaSleeper
#16
The words that Theodore Roosevelt spoke in the last century should apply now, and in Canada also...


Quote:



Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

 
dumpthemonarchy
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper View Post

The words that Theodore Roosevelt spoke in the last century should apply now, and in Canada also...

American are more certain of their identity. We have been in flux as we have been trying to shed Britishness since Expo 67 and a new flag, plus requiring a passport to get to the UK. Multiculturalism has muddled things and the plan is to make immigrants in Canada along the lines FDR says. That is what most people want.
 
DaSleeper
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchy View Post

American are more certain of their identity. We have been in flux as we have been trying to shed Britishness since Expo 67 and a new flag, plus requiring a passport to get to the UK. Multiculturalism has muddled things and the plan is to make immigrants in Canada along the lines FDR says. That is what most people want.

One more reason not to like Mulroony<spelling> GST and the Multiculturalism act.
 
damngrumpy
+1
#19
To start with we need some immigration to take jobs, that we cannot do special training.
Our Governments have seen fit to shut down many of the apprentice and special job skill
courses or make them unaffordable. Now we need to import people to do those jobs.
Yes people should understand when they come here that they will be respected but they
will not be allowed to dictate the Canadian Agenda because of religion or past cultural
practices. We open our doors invite people as guests with the invitation to join us we do
not however and should not turn the keys to our home over to them to change the furniture.

I don't care where people come from as long as they come to be good Canadians and to
respect our laws customs and institutions. If they cannot do that after its explained they
should either leave or if they break the law, they should be deported. There are enough laws
already if we had the guts and intelligence to use them.
 
JLM
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchy View Post

Getting laid off or fired is a certainty in the modern world. Should be called EB, employment benefits then. the name doesn't matter too much, it is how its run.

Not usually if you are a competent and industrious employee and have skills and a work ethic that are in demand. Too many people starting work these days want to know when pay day is and when their vacation starts on day one.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Not usually if you are a competent and industrious employee and have skills and a work ethic that are in demand. Too many people starting work these days want to know when pay day is and when their vacation starts on day one.

What about the non-union suppliers to the auto industry? Were all the layoff due to the errors of all these suppliers to the big 2.5 an issue of incompetence? Or your boss sells the business, are the former employees incompetent there too? To have business success, you have business failures, which creates unemployment in our fast chainging modern world.

I'm not into rewarding people who don't want to work, which EI currently does. Fairer and better EI would reduce the need for immigration. All those lazy people out there obviously don't work enough and don't have good jobs and need an incentive to get moving toward gainful employment.

We would rather import people from Asia than give a kick in the ass to Canadians. That's lazy too.
 
Durry
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy View Post

To start with we need some immigration to take jobs, that we cannot do special training.
Our Governments have seen fit to shut down many of the apprentice and special job skill
courses or make them unaffordable. Now we need to import people to do those jobs.
em.

Yes, I agree, but we have to do a better job on who we are immigrating.

For instance, why are we immigrating Taxi drivers?? And if they are so well qualified to do their profession here, why don't they get their proffesional status certified for Canada, before they come here ??
 

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