US Terror Suspects Making Canadian Stops


View Poll Results: Should the CIA be able to route terror suspects' flights through Canada without the consent of the G
Yes 5 55.56%
No 4 44.44%
Don't know / Prefer not to respond 0 0%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

FiveParadox
Liberal
#1
The Honourable Peter Mackay , P.C. , M.P. , the Member for Central Nova and Minister of Foreign Affairs , is considering bringing the issue of a possible breach of the sovereignty of Canada to the attention of his counterpart in the United States of America .

Amnesty International has discovered that at least twelve flights may have touched down in Canada, carrying unconvicted terror suspects to secret locations, for the purpose of interrogation or incarceration, since 2001; the aircraft were found to have landed at an airport in the Province of Newfoundland .

Discussion and Debate

Do you think that the Central Intelligence Agency of the United States of America should have the right to route aircraft carrying terror suspects through Canada, without the prior permission of the Government of Canada ? Do you think that the Government should consent to this traffic, or do you think that steps should be taken to force the United States to cease this practice?
 
zoofer
#2
They do not get off the plane as it is probably a refueling stop.
Only 12 out of the thousands they have captured? What about the hundreds released from Gitmo and returned to their home countries?
 
aeon
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

The Honourable Peter Mackay , P.C. , M.P. , the Member for Central Nova and Minister of Foreign Affairs , is considering bringing the issue of a possible breach of the sovereignty of Canada to the attention of his counterpart in the United States of America .

Amnesty International has discovered that at least twelve flights may have touched down in Canada, carrying unconvicted terror suspects to secret locations, for the purpose of interrogation or incarceration, since 2001; the aircraft were found to have landed at an airport in the Province of Newfoundland .

Discussion and Debate

Do you think that the Central Intelligence Agency of the United States of America should have the right to route aircraft carrying terror suspects through Canada, without the prior permission of the Government of Canada ? Do you think that the Government should consent to this traffic, or do you think that steps should be taken to force the United States to cease this practice?


They have no right to do that, and then we turn around and pretend to be for human rights , we are just like the americans, and even worst , we have no opinion, except being hypocryte on those issue.
 
Jay
#4
Does it pose a security concern?
 
sanch
#5
Irwin Cotler made the statement a number of times that rights are secondary to security concerns.

Probably the previous governement of Canada gave their permission for these flights to land knowing fully the status of individuals aboard.
 
pcalnan
#6
The problem with this issue is that there's an assumption that the Canadian government is collaborating on this by allowing these things to happen. I have serious doubts that the CIA or any other intelligence organization is going to advertise what it is doing and so my assumption, correct or incorrect, is that there were no announcements or notifications made of these flights or their destinations. Ignorance does not excuse violating human rights but I think it would be extremely difficult to verify that the passengers on board all flights that land in or fly out of Canadian airports aren't being transported to torture sites. Wouldn't it be difficult to give consent without prior knowledge?
 
Jay
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by sanch

Irwin Cotler made the statement a number of times that rights are secondary to security concerns.

Probably the previous governement of Canada gave their permission for these flights to land knowing fully the status of individuals aboard.

I'm just trying to understand how this is any of our business.
 
sanch
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Jay

Quote: Originally Posted by sanch

Irwin Cotler made the statement a number of times that rights are secondary to security concerns.

Probably the previous governement of Canada gave their permission for these flights to land knowing fully the status of individuals aboard.

I'm just trying to understand how this is any of our business.

What's not our business? Caring about what government does and just blindly trusting them?

There are two options: The Canadian government was aware of who was on the plane; or they decided that they did not want to be officially told who was on the plane. Either way they knew. The second version simply offers deniability.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#9
As soon as we get a grip on hate being preached in Mosques in the GTA I'll be more than happy to raise the Issue about flights touching down and taking off from our Airports.

My aren't we a bunch of self righteous hypocrites.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#10
Retired_Can_Soldier , when your policy extends to Churches, then we can talk.
 
Jay
#11
I go to Church...I haven't ever heard any thing that even remotely resembles hate speech.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#12
All the best Fiveparadox
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#13
I'm painkiller free today folks, but not free of pain.

Waiter, bring me a beer.

M
 
Curiosity
#14
Oh for heaven's sake....

Planes don't just land at airports large enough for international flights withour prior permission.

Even on the 9/11 diversion of flights into Canadian airspace there was still permission requested and granted - even though those planes could have been operated by terrorists.

Unless it is an emergency - the flight plans have already been approved by the CAA (or whatever it's called) for this flight schedule - both landing and take off.
 
missile
Conservative
#15
I was a Catholic and never heard any hate messages from the priests at any mass..just sermons on love,tolerance and peace.
 
Curiosity
#16
Oh and did I mention "Amnesty International"..... is a group which one day (and I will not be surprised) one day will set nations against each other - as they are attempting to do with Canada and the U.S. and you people eat it up.

Think ahead for heaven's sake....
 
Sassylassie
#17
I look at this issue this way: We don't know diddly squat compared to what our governments know, it's not like they are going to tell Joe or Jane Doe about all the information they have from Intel gathering. I suspect the information our Governments' have about terrorism would frighten me to death. I elected them now I have to trust their doing their jobs by protecting Canadians/US.

No I don't have a problem with the flights.

I have never heard a RC Priest preach hate, fear, or spread propagand during a sermon. In latin or English. The same goes for the Salavation Army.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#18
I have heard members of Churches preach hatred toward others before — during the debate on same-sex marriage in the United States of America , for example; there were statements made during that debate that could be considered to be hate propaganda, by any definition of the term.

To the Topic at Hand

I don't think that the Central Intelligence Agency should have the right to route such traffic through Canada, without informing the Government of Canada — it is encroaching upon the sovereignty of Canada for the United States to route such controversial traffic through Canada without informing the Government of their intentions. Both this Government, and the previous Government of Canada , have stated that the CIA, nor any institution in the United States, has informed Canada of any such traffic through proper channels.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#19
Quote:

FIVEPARADOX:there were statements made during that debate that could be considered to be hate propaganda, by any definition of the term.

I think were talking apples and oranges Five.
Cheers
M
 
Jay
#20
America doesn't have hate speech laws...they would be illegal.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#21
Retired_Can_Soldier , I was making reference to the same-sex marriage debate that took place recently in the United States of America (although some of such debates continue to this day), not to this debate (as in the present discussion on this forum).

Jay , that is not the case in Canada, and Canadian Content is administered pursuant to Canadian law, as per the terms of service, whether or not you happen to subscribe to the merit or ideals of those laws.
 
Sassylassie
#22
I had my husband check his Transport Canada Regs and it states that all International Flights will file a flight plan with Transport Canada and upon landing on Canadian Soil Customs Canada will inspect the passengers, aircraft and flight manifest of said flight. In essence our Governent past and present are aware and allowing such flights unless they are working under the radar and using new security laws to subvert Transport Canada Regulations.
 
Jay
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox


Jay , that is not the case in Canada, and Canadian Content is administered pursuant to Canadian law, as per the terms of service, whether or not you happen to subscribe to the merit or ideals of those laws.

Are you accusing members of using hate speech here Five? That's a pretty big charge IMO, you should back it up. But I'm sure if you go over Dark Beavers post you will find some, not that you ever mention anything about those folks....
 
sanch
#24
Quote:

Jay, that is not the case in Canada, and Canadian Content is administered pursuant to Canadian law, as per the terms of service, whether or not you happen to subscribe to the merit or ideals of those laws.

The site is on a US server is it not?
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#25
Jay , your damned arrogance is starting to get to me. I don't read half of what darkbeaver writes, because most of the time he's completely full of crap; I don't report or comment on what I don't read. And no, I was not accusing anyone of using hate speech on Canadian Content , nevermind in this thread — I was making a point as to the terms of service of this site, based on what you had said.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#26
Please review Section 1 of the Forum Rules , sanch .

Revision : Corrected a formatting error.
 
sanch
#27
I am in the US and I am posting to a server housed in the US then the legal jurisdiction is the US I would think. No? I know we agree to the terms of service which seem to be ignored by some anyway but I wonder how much weight simply agreeing to abide by Canadian law would hold in a foreign court.
 
EagleSmack
#28
I have attended Catholic Church and they have never once preached hatred against Gays. Just because of the fact they disagree with same sex marriage does not make that HATE SPEECH.

I know that the radical Gay Groups call it that but that is just the way that they operate. For example

"I don't agree with same sex marriage."

"You're a BIGOT! A HOMOPHOBE! YOU HATE!"

"No... I really don't hate you. I just do not agree with what you are doing."

"YOU BIGOT... YOU NAZI...YOU RIGHT WING CHRISTIAN EXTREMIST."

Get the point?

Christians are easy targets because they are taught tolerance.

We all see what happens to people who speak out against islam. They get gunned down in the street and their throats cut. You will never see Radical Gay Groups REALLY come out against islamic groups or protest in front of a mosque. They will protest in front of churches because it is much safer even though islam would have them all killed.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#29
Really now, EagleSmack , I don't think of myself as much of a "radical gay" — however, when I see "Christians" preaching slogans such as "God hates fags" and "AIDS kills fags dead", I tend to be a bit skeptical. And I didn't see a huge Christian outcry at that, either; those moderate Christians must be complacent.
 
EagleSmack
#30
Five... I KNOW exactly of who you speak of and if you will look closely to those nut jobs you will find them mostly protesting outside OTHER Christian Churches. This truly is one group that follow one self proclaimed prophet.

They used to go to famous Gay people's funerals and the funerals of celebrities. They even showed up at Frank Sinatra's funeral.

They protest and praise the death of our soldiers! That is one of their latest shenanigans. They go to the funeral of any soldier and say "Sgt. "So and So" is in HELL". Why? "Because he fights for a country that supports Fags"

Those are their words not mine. Again you won't see those nut jobs in front of a mosque either.

And you know what else... you won't see any radical Gay Groups in front of that crazy church protesting because there might be trouble.
 

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