Is Canada ready for the coming electric vehicle revolution?


Hoid
#541
Porsche doubling down on electric technology as parent company Volkswagon decides to become the world leader in battery tech with a $25 billion investment.

We are in the transition phase right now, the strictly gas powered car is pretty much done.

The complete elimination of internal combustion engine will occur in less than 20 years.

“For the next ten years, Porsche intends to continue with a three-pronged approach, incorporating optimized combustion engines, plug-in hybrid models and purely electric sports cars – all in typical Porsche style of course. The regions of the world are developing at different rates. We are therefore gearing ourselves up as flexibly as possible for the transitional period,”
 
darkbeaver
#542
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Porsche doubling down on electric technology as parent company Volkswagon decides to become the world leader in battery tech with a $25 billion investment.

We are in the transition phase right now, the strictly gas powered car is pretty much done.

The complete elimination of internal combustion engine will occur in less than 20 years.

ďFor the next ten years, Porsche intends to continue with a three-pronged approach, incorporating optimized combustion engines, plug-in hybrid models and purely electric sports cars Ė all in typical Porsche style of course. The regions of the world are developing at different rates. We are therefore gearing ourselves up as flexibly as possible for the transitional period,Ē

Quote:

The complete elimination of internal combustion engine will occur in less than 20 years.

Not a chance!
 
petros
+1
#543
85 years later there are a million Model As still registered in the US.

Yeah, gasoline is toast.
 
JLM
+1
#544
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

85 years later there are a million Model As still registered in the US.

Yeah, gasoline is toast.

Hey Pete- Have you ever thought that this forum needs a rigid qualifying test to screen out idiots? It's getting to be a pretty onerous task just maneuvering through stupidity!
 
petros
#545
What fun would it be without them?
 
JLM
+1
#546
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

What fun would it be without them?

Have to agree there's great joy to be had poking at a couple of them!
 
Gilgamesh
#547
Quote: Originally Posted by B00Mer View Post

Is Canada ready for the coming electric vehicle revolution?



Two of the world's largest auto manufacturers — Ford and General Motors (GM) — made headlines this week by announcing a significant widening of their electric offerings in the near future, seen by many as emblematic as a broader industry move away from the gasoline engine.

But is B.C. ready for that change?

While electric vehicles are becoming increasingly popular in urban centres like Vancouver and Victoria, much of rural B.C. still has concerns.

Michelle Mungall, provincial energy minister and MLA for Nelson-Creston, says electric vehicles will be an important part of reducing B.C.'s carbon emissions. But she says her constituents have concerns about the adoption of new technology when their cars are such essential lifelines.

"I have one of the highest mountain passes that I have to cross over right in the middle of my riding," Mungall said, referring to Kootenay Pass between Salmo and Creston.

"My number one concern is, will an electric vehicle get me through a blizzard on that highest pass in Canada?"

Winter conditions can hamper the performance of electric cars because low temperatures affect battery capacity.

Dispelling myths

Andrew Weaver, leader of the B.C. Green party and owner of an electric vehicle himself, says these concerns represent the biggest hurdles facing the wider adoption of electric vehicles.

While [Weaver admits] it is true that an electric vehicle's range suffers in the winter, he said electric vehicles already have ranges comparable to gasoline-powered cars.

"A lot of what's out there is folklore that's not true and barriers that are artificial," Weaver said.

He also disputed the notion that electric vehicles take a long time to charge, saying he can charge his vehicle from 20 to 80 per cent in 15 minutes with a specialized DC fast charger.



Infrastructure lacking

But that belies another significant problem, which is the lack of infrastructure. It can be hard enough to find standard charging stations outside of major urban centres, let alone fast chargers.

Weaver said one of the main reasons charging infrastructure isn't more widespread is because of unnecessary regulatory barriers. He noted, for example, that a company must be registered as a utility before it can charge a customer for use of charging station.

While B.C. already has a number of incentives in place — including a $40 million commitment to increasing electric vehicle adoption in the NDP government's recent budget update — Weaver said it's still not enough.

"We are lagging behind many other jurisdictions [in this]," he said.

Major market shift

While the difference in transportation needs between urban and rural dwellers is significant, moves like those from GM and Ford may help with rural adoption of electric vehicle technology.

Matthew Klippenstein, a professional engineer and co-host of the podcast Cleantech Talk, says such a dramatic lineup overhaul from major manufacturers is a signal to consumers that electric vehicles are ready for prime time.

"I'm sure that we'll see dozens if not hundreds of new options in the coming, say, five years — not just from GM but every other auto maker, making sure that, if a customer wants something, they have a product to meet that desire," Klippenstein said.

There are about as many Ford F-150s — a top-selling truck — sold in a month as there are electric vehicles sold in a year in Canada, he noted, so the electric conversion of that one product line alone is a significant market shakeup.

Tomorrow comes today

But the auto industry moves at a glacial place when it comes to adopting new technology, Klippenstein said — largely due to the massive investment required in development.

For Weaver, the detrimental environmental effect of B.C.'s continued reliance on the internal combustion engine means it's too important to wait. He wants the province to reduce barriers and adopt a zero-emissions vehicle policy similar to Quebec's.

"We cannot afford to be not aggressive," Weaver said.

Is B.C. ready for the coming electric vehicle revolution? - British Columbia - CBC News

Andrew weaver is a liar and/or a fool.

Of course, that applies to all "greenies".

The state of our educational system especially re. science is abysmal.

Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

There is no stat that will cure stupid.

If you don't get that electric vehicles are the future that's your problem, not mine. I could not care less.

Electric cars are indeed the future-future-maybe by 2100 A.D.

Learn some basic physics and chemistry.
 
Murphy
+1
#548
The reason Flossy's electric revolution isn't happening is because of the price.

Electric vehicles are easier and cheaper to manufacture than internal combustion engines, but they charge an arm and a leg. To me, that suggests that the capitalist pig dogs are trying to make big bux on the backs of the greenies. Inflated prices? Nah!

I'm all for making big bux from greenies like Flossy. I'll take his money and he can think that he's saving the world. It's win-win!
 
petros
+2
#549
He drives an iron block 07 Civic that gets the same mileage as a new full size pick up truck.

Do you really believe it practices what it preaches?
 
Murphy
#550
Good heavens, no! But I think he rides a bicycle. Not because he wants to save the planet. I just don't think he's old enough for a driver's license.
 
petros
+2
#551
He's Waldo the drywaller that lives in Ontario and uses a virtual IP that pegs him in butt f-ck nowhere BC.

Flosshole is flosshole and peckerhoid is Waldo.
 
Hoid
#552
Ignore listers a'buzzin

 
petros
#553
Drywaldo
 
JLM
#554
Get it through your heads folks the coming electric vehicle revolution is a myth perpetuated by dummies! We have far more fossil fuel potential than we have electricity potential.
 
Murphy
#555
We know it's a myth. We just have a few people who are desperate for attention, like Flossy, who try to stir the pot.

No worries. Most people ignore them.
 
JLM
#556
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

No worries. Most people ignore them.

Thank God, there's too many raving lunatics on the loose and they even let these guys vote!
 
Murphy
+1
#557
Scary thought, isn't it?
 
petros
+2
#558
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Get it through your heads folks the coming electric vehicle revolution is a myth perpetuated by dummies! We have far more fossil fuel potential than we have electricity potential.

Funny thing, batteries made from coal are already hitting the market.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; "coal is far too valuable to burn and we'll need it for the future".

Its necessary for steel, carbon fibre, nanotubes, graphene, graphite and who knows what else.

Graphene-Based Supercapacitors Could Lead To Battery-Free Electric Cars Within 5 Years | IFLScience
 
Murphy
+1
#559
That's a good article. If the construction of these caps is similar to those presently in use, they are cheap and easy to put together, but are lightweight and less bulky.

I could run my tractor with something like that.
 
petros
#560
I met the fella that engineered the first mylar caps. Oh and vertical hold. He was with Motorola/RCA
 
Murphy
+1
#561
That development could make portable tools smaller, lighter and easier to use. I hope it works out the way they hope.
 
petros
#562
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

That development could make portable tools smaller, lighter and easier to use. I hope it works out the way they hope.

Still a fossil fuel so that makes it evil no matter what.
 
Murphy
#563
Fossil fuels are fine. People just have to rebel against something,

Whadda you got?

[youtube]_4NkkAQllfo[/youtube]
 
petros
#564
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have dance in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
 
spilledthebeer
#565
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

They bounce off. Newtonian stuff.

Here is an article illustrating the absurdity of the LIE-beral carbon crap and trade scam with its reliance on carbon `credits`. And we need to understand that the same illogic is driving the electric car crap as well! With some comments of my own in brackets):

Premier Kathleen Wynne's visit from Santa Claus

FIRST POSTED: FRIDAY, DECEMBER 23, 2016 10:32 AM EST

Imagine it's Christmas Eve and Santa has magically appeared at Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynneís house to deliver her presents. Perhaps their conversation would go something like this:

Santa: Merry Christmas, Kathleen. Ho, Ho, Ho and all that.

Wynne: Thank you, Santa. What did you bring me this year?

Santa- Searching through giant bag- Well letís see ... Oh, yes, here it is. Your gift is one million carbon credits! Merry Christmas!

Wynne: But I donít see anything.

Santa: Of course you donít see anything! A carbon credit allows you to burn one tonne of industrial carbon dioxide emissions or their equivalent, a colourless, odourless, invisible gas. And the good news is youíve got a million of them!

Wynne: But Santa, if I canít see them, how do I know they are real?

Santa: Excellent question. Ask David Suzuki.

Wynne: But Santa, could I at least get a certificate saying my one million carbon credits are real?

Santa: No.

Wynne: Why not?

Santa: Well, Kathleen, that gets a little complicated. You see, the one million carbon credits Iím giving you that gives you permission to burn one million tonnes of industrial carbon dixoide emissions or their equivalent, assumes someone else somewhere in the world didnít burn one million tonnes of industrial carbon dioxide emissions or their equivalent.

Wynne: Okay, so whatís the problem?

Santa: No one is exactly sure that the one million carbon credits Iím giving you actually means that someone else somewhere in the world didnít emit one million tonnes of industrial carbon dioxide emissions.

Wynne: Why not?

Santa: Fraud. Turns out many of these carbon permits were fraudulently issued in that there was no actual reduction of industrial greenhouse gas emissions attached to them.

Wynne: How did that happen?

Santa: Youíre asking me how there can be fraud in a global stock market trading in the right to emit and not emit a colourless, odourless, invisible gas? Youíre kidding, right?

Wynne: But if itís confirmed that these one million carbon credits are legitimate, can I get something in writing to that effect then?

Santa: No.

Wynne: Why not?

Santa: Because even if the emission reductions turn out to be real, they have to be in addition to reductions that would have happened anyway, without carbon pricing.

Wynne: How do we figure that out?

Santa: Good question. Ask Al Gore.

Wynne: Forgive me, Santa, I donít mean to sound ungrateful, but this doesnít sound like much of a gift. Could I have one billion dollars instead to pay off the cost of those two natural gas plants we cancelled in Mississauga and Oakville?

Santa: No.

Wynne: Why not?

Santa: What do you think, Santa is made out of money? If Santa starts bailing you out of every mistake you Liberals have made for the past 13 years when it comes to green energy, Santa wonít have any money left to buy presents for anyone else.

Wynne: Okay, fair point. Could I at least get a note from you saying that you, Santa, approve of our efforts to save the world from man-made climate change, no matter the cost?

Santa: No.

Wynne: Why not?

Santa: Thatís Leonardo DiCaprioís present for this year.

(Is it not amazing that LIE-berals are charging our businesses for the privilege of continuing to operate in Ontar-owe? How else to describe the legal pressure put on companies to BUY these ridiculous LIE-beral issued `certificates` as if companies where buying something useful or concrete! LIE-berals assure us the carbon crap credits will improve our environment but do not offer honest answers regarding HOW!)

AS various reports- mainly from the Fraser Institute, have shown , air in Ontari-owe is NOT cleaner due to any action of LIE-berals. Rather, the air is cleaner because of the 2008 mortgage melt down which demolished a whole lot of companies along the United States Ohio Valley where some of the oldest and dirtiest coal fire electrical plants in North America have been shut down due to declining electrical demand as industries closed their doors. Dozens of plants have been closed completely and others have bene converted to burn cleaner natural gas- and Ontari-owe LIE-berals cannot claim ANY credit for this!)

(Absurd as the above description of Santa and his carbon crap credits is, the reality is much worse! LIE-berals are claiming credit for cleaning the air when all they are doing is cleaning our wallets-as our over taxed economy bleeds jobs and we deal with soaring costs and frozen wages and watch as a generation of kids gives up any hope of owning a home or having a family-even steady reliable work is something they can only dream of now that Ontari-owe is the most indebted sub national entity on the planet!)

( And how absurd is it that LIE-berals claim credit for having simply persuaded various industries to pack up and LEAVE Ontari-owe! Moving pollution production out of reach of LIE-beral greed is not the same as ending the production of that pollution! But LIE-berals are blinded by greed for gravy and desperate to cling to power by purchasing the votes of civil service Hogs and special interest groups; thus LIE-berals do not care for reason or logic as it has become inconvenient to them!)
 
Twin_Moose
#566
Moody's downgrades Tesla credit rating on Model 3 production delays

Quote:

Moody's downgraded TeslaTSLA's credit ratings Tuesday and changed its outlook to negative from stable, citing "significant shortfall" in the Model 3 production rate and a tight financial situation. The credit ratings agency also said the electric car maker will likely need to raise more money in the near future to meet its cash needs and maintain its expected pace of expansion.
Moody's lowered its corporate family rating on Tesla to B3 from B2 and downgraded its rating on the company's senior notes to Caa1 from B3. The speculative grade liquidity rating was cut to SGL-4 from SGL-3.
Tesla declined to comment on the Moody's downgrade. S&P has a negative B rating on Tesla and a negative outlook, as of April 2017. "Tesla's ratings reflect the significant shortfall in the production rate of the company's Model 3 electric vehicle," Moody's said in a release. "Tesla's rating could be lowered further if there are shortfalls from its updated Model 3 production targets."
Elon Musk's electric car company had planned to produce 5,000 Model 3 sedans a week by the end of last year, but has since pushed that goal out by half a year.
The automakers' shares were mildly lower in after-hours trading Tuesday. They fell 8.2 percent during the day to their lowest since Feb. 2017 after the National Transportation Safety Board tweeted it was investigating a fatal Tesla car crash. Shares are now down 28 percent from their record high reached in September and in bear market territory.
The price on Tesla's eight-year junk bond, which matures in 2025, fell to its lowest since it was issued in August. It hit 90.8 cents late Tuesday afternoon just ahead of the Moody's announcement, according to IHS Markit. The yield, which moves inversely to price, rose to 6.91 percent, the data showed.
Tesla raised a more-than-expected $1.8 billion in August for that junk bond offering to fund accelerated production for its Model 3 sedan, despite poor appetite at the time for risky assets.
Traders have been betting heavily against the electric car maker's bonds amid growing worries about the electric car maker's ability to deliver on its production goals. Ninety-nine percent of lendable supply for shorting Tesla's high-yield bond has been used, Sam Pierson, director, securities finance, at IHS Markit said in a Monday note.
Tesla had $3.4 billion in cash and securities at the end of last year, and $1.9 billion through its asset-based lending facility, the Moody's release said. "This liquidity position is not adequate to cover:
1) the approximately $500 million in minimum cash that we estimate Tesla must maintain for normal operations;
2) a 2018 operating cash burn that will approximate $2 billion if Tesla maintains high discretionary capital expenditures to increase capacity; and
3) convertible debt maturities of approximately $1.2 billion through early 2019. These cash needs will likely require Tesla to undertake a near-term capital raise exceeding $2 billion."
"These cash needs will likely require Tesla to undertake a near-term capital raise exceeding $2 billion," Moody's said in the release.

How would this effect warranty and vehicle repairs?
 
petros
+2
#567
Lack of product, lack of dealers, and a lower requirement for technicians.

If you are behind in producing full vehicles, you don't have the capacity to produce spare parts after the production run.

That is a capital costs you'd have to sit on.
 
spilledthebeer
#568
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Lack of product, lack of dealers, and a lower requirement for technicians.

If you are behind in producing full vehicles, you don't have the capacity to produce spare parts after the production run.

That is a capital costs you'd have to sit on.

And the worst of it is that Tesla will DIE if it does not get huge new govt loans and subsidies! Tesla is a creation of govt pork barrel politics- a flashy, trendy, useless gewgaw for politicians seeking a photo op and the chance to PRETEND they are doing something/anything about jobs and the environment! Consider:
Reports Say Tesla's Model 3 Could Cost You as Little as $25,000 (35,000 minus Tax Credits)

(AS we now know the Tesla model 3 will cost TWICE AS MUCH as a Nissan Qashqai and the Tesla will come with a shorter range, greater refueling difficulties,lesser cargo capacity and very limited towing ability compared the the Qashqai! Tesla Model 3`s will ONLY BE SOLD in places where govt literally BUYS the product for its friends! ordinary people will shun the clunker!

Tesla lost $889 million last year -- a record -- partially due to new model development costs and partially due to construction costs associated with its Nevada-based battery Gigafactory.

It's also not clear how expensive the Model 3 will be when it arrives. Musk confirmed on Twitter that production won't start with a pricier Signature Series a la Model S and X, and officials have repeatedly insisted that the car will start at as little as $35,000. Federal and state tax credits promise to slash as much as $13,500 from that bottom line, which would make the Model 3 the company's first truly affordable automobile.

Online reservations for the Model 3 will fire up on April 1.


http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/te...tock-troubles/

================================================== ===================






Carbon pricingís dirty secret-Climate Change Minister Glen Murray confirms itís going to cost us a lot of money-By Lorrie Goldstein, Toronto Sun

First posted: Saturday, April 30, 2016 02:16 PM EDT-QMI_TS20160428SB02

Ontario Minister of the Environment & Climate Change Glen Murray speaks to the Economic Club in Toronto, Ont. on Thursday April 28, 2016. Stan Behal/Toronto Sun/Postmedia Network

Itís hard to tell whether it was deliberate or a gaffe ó meaning what happens when a politician accidentally tells the truth ó but Ontario Climate Change Minister Glen Murray told the truth last week.

In an interview with the Sunís Shawn Jeffords, he said cap-and-trade and other government decarbonization initiatives will be very expensive, which politicians almost never do.

As Murray put it in responding to a Globe and Mail story about Ontarioís plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions: ďIt costs a lot of money. Itís going to cost the private sector, and itís an investment, and itís going to cost the public sector money.Ē

(I feel obligated to make some comments that Goldstein and Sun colleagues have missed and my comments appear in brackets. So I have to ask just HOW reducing greenhouse gas will cost the public sector anything seeing as the LIE-beral carbon plan is being set up to give LIE-berals a HUGE new slush fund to play with and BUY VOTES from civil service Hogs! Yes the Hogs can expect nice little raises so they can KEEP ON producing their carbon footprint while we starve-because the LIE-beral fix is IN! LIE-berals want to assure us they feel our pain-and this is WHY we call them LIE-berals!)

The only thing I would have added is an acknowledgment that having the private and public sector pay a lot more means all of us are going to pay a lot more.

(I say if its true the public sector will also be fiscally hit then look for inflation to come back in a BIG way as Hogs DEMAND LARGE wage settlements in order to keep up their life-style/maintain their ENTITLEMENTS!)

Too often, politicians talk about carbon pricing in terms of ďmaking the polluter payĒ, implying the costs will be magically absorbed by carbon intensive industries.

Thatís nonsense. In fact, we are the polluters, since we buy the goods and services that fossil fuel energy creates and we are the ones who will end up paying more.

Murray also acknowledged meeting goals such as having 1.7 million electric and hybrid vehicles on the roads by 2024, will require ďa generous subsidy for the first generation of that changeĒ.

(Considering that the Tesla Car co. lost nearly a BILLION DOLLARS last year, Murray is NOT kidding about the costs and subsidies! In addition there are serious cost issues surrounding the building of the Tesla battery factory-Gigafactory!)

Less impressive in terms of candour was Murrayís observation that, ďthere are incredible savings and returns on that (carbon pricing) investment for everyone.Ē

Not quite. This is similar to the happy talk former federal Liberal leader Stephane Dion used when he introduced his Green Shift plan prior to losing the 2008 election.

At the time, he said: ďCanada will cut megatonnes of emissions, but we will also make megatonnes of money.Ē

The reality is that decarbonizing a country like Canada ó big, cold, sparsely populated, resource-based ó is going to be very hard and very costly.

Worse, Premier Kathleen Wynne plans to do it in the worst way possible ó through a cap-and-trade system that has been a disaster in Europe and that will take almost $2 billion annually out of the Ontario economy to start, beginning next year.

(At least-two billion is the number they have given us-and have the LIE-berals ever fudged numbers before?)

That, plus the government picking winners and losers in terms of who it will subsidize and who it wonít.

(As I said-the LIE-beral fix is IN-LIE-berals will be offering electric car charging stations at chosen spots-such as the LCBO-and how long before there are `FREE` charging stations outside all govt buildings and lines of civil service Hog cars charging for free as one of their ENTITLEMENTS? And civil service Hogs often drive govt vehicles supplied as an entitlement-so we know who will be paying to install charging stations for those govt Hogs at the homes of people on the sunshine list!))

(It was Dalton McGinty who first mused that govt would have to start picking economic winners and losers in Ontari-owe in order to ďbetter manage the Ontari-owe economyĒ. And of course it will be LIE-beral friends who are the winners-one only has to look at the biomass electrical generation mess in Thunder Bay that our LIE-beral friendly media whores are ignoring to see who will be winning and who losing! LIE-berals saved 60 union hog jobs by converting a generating plant to burn `bio-mass` material imported from Europe and the electricity from the plant now costs TWENTY-FIVE TIMES MORE than other forms of generation-but price is no object when there are LIE-beral votes and jobs to save! Deficits be damned!)

Thatís as far away from an effective carbon pricing scheme as you can get ó a 100%, revenue neutral carbon tax, verified by the provincial auditor general every year, in which the government returns all the money it raises through carbon pricing to the public in the form of an annual cash dividend, or income tax cuts and cash grants to the poor who donít pay taxes.

That would be a plan actually designed to encourage people to adopt a less carbon intensive lifestyle, as opposed to a mere cash grab for the government, which is what Ontarioís plan is.

But at least Murray was honest about the costs.

( I say: beware of convoluted plans since most of them and especially the LIE-beral ones are designed to make 2 +2 add up to FIVE! They are TRICKY! In the 9 months after the 9/11 World Trade attack, during which time 25 percent of the worlds airline fleet was grounded, there was a MEASURABLE IMPROVEMENT in air quality around the globe.)

(Airplanes produce 75-85 percent of ALL pollution related to `transportation`-that means planes, trains, cars, ships, buses, trucks and anything else with a motor-and airplanes are WAY dirtier than ALL the other machines combined out there. And the people with the most money-that would be civil servants in Canada- are much more likely to ride in planes than ordinary people-especially since about one third of Cdns donít feel they can even afford a holiday So, all we need to do to clear our air is balance our govt books.)

(Our teachers in Ontari-owe are getting ready to go back on strike after having decided they are ENTITLED to more gravy than they were offered last fall. And we DONíT have the money and cannot produce the gravy! WE owe-thanks to INSANE LIE-beral promises- about FIFTY FIVE BILLION DOLLARS in deferred pension promises to Ontari-owe high school teachers alone-and there are EIGHTEEN other civil service unions at the provincial level-ALL demanding some hundreds of BILLIONS in LIE-beral pension promises-any real effort to pay off the entitlements promised by LIE-berals will destroy the country-hence the LIE-beral plan to make 2 +2 add up to a Hog vote buying number FIVE!)

(LIE-berals are CAUGHT-we simply donít have the money to pay for LIE-beral promises but LIE-berals are going to grab as much gravy as they can and offer it to the Hogs in hope of BUYING another election in 2018. LIE-berals hope that offering Hogs a partial loaf will be acceptable as some is better than nothing-but of course LIE-berals and their Hog allies donít care that we ordinary peons will end up with NOTHING! Which is why its so odd that Environment Minister Murray would be so candid about carbon crap costs!)

(LIE-berals can talk carbon crap all they want but the truth is their zeal for carbon cutting is really all about vote buying and producing a giant LIE-beral slush fund to reward their pals!)
 
JLM
#569
I ponder why posters persist in perpetuating this premature prediction!
Last edited by JLM; Mar 28th, 2018 at 10:17 AM..
 
Hoid
-1
#570
the fate of Tesla and the coming electric vehicle revolution are mutually exclusive.

ie the failure of Tesla will not prevent it from happening.

the success or failure of Tesla is irrelevant.