My escape plan in case Trudeau gets re-elected


Twin_Moose
+2
#121
Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

Yes, their votes should be worth many times more than mine, instead.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

I see you ignored the question about Hilton Beach. Do you think it should have the same number of MPPs as Toronto?

Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

So itís interesting that some folks think giving PEI the same representation of Alberta is perfectly reasonable yet giving Hilton Beach the same representation as Toronto isnít. I believe some people will support any idea that they think benefits them without giving much thought to the general principles driving the idea. No intelligent person would expect (or should expect) a senate system mirroring the US without proposing a drastic devolution of powers from the federal government to the provinces. While I donít necessarily have a problem with that philosophically, it just isnít going to happen given the current political climate.
BTW Boomster, Iím always in the marker for vacation properties but not timeshares. I would rather purchase. Iíd say ďkeep me in mind if you see anything goodĒ but your standards are considerably below mine so donít bother.

Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

The Libertarian philosophy is "What's in it for me?", and fair and proportional representation does not contain a lot of "me" and it has way too much "us".

You Two are confusing Parliament with the senate, MP's will still represent by population, Senators by Provinces and regions to ensure Regional interests across the nation are well represented.
 
petros
+2
#122
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

I don't mind the party system really, I just wish the PM was the exception to the rule; as in they could be anyone, from any party, that the public votes for that wants the job, and not necessarily the leader of the party that wins.

Yeah, a Republic would nice.
 
petros
+1
#123
Quote: Originally Posted by B00Mer View Post

Why you looking for another timeshare

A bedbug and breakfast.
 
Cannuck
#124
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

You Two are confusing Parliament with the senate....

Can't speak for CC but, I'm not
 
Twin_Moose
+2
#125
Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

By population

Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

No, Iím not advocating the status quo. There are lots of different models that fall under the one person/one vote system. Why do you think one person/one vote is unfair and do you suggest your ďfairĒ system should be used everywhere? Should Hilton Beach Ontario get the same number of MPPs as Toronto? If not, why? How do you consider giving 75,000 people in PEI one senator and 2 million Albertans, one senator fair? Seems pretty weighted in an Islanderís favour.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

I see you ignored the question about Hilton Beach. Do you think it should have the same number of MPPs as Toronto?

Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

So itís interesting that some folks think giving PEI the same representation of Alberta is perfectly reasonable yet giving Hilton Beach the same representation as Toronto isnít. I believe some people will support any idea that they think benefits them without giving much thought to the general principles driving the idea. No intelligent person would expect (or should expect) a senate system mirroring the US without proposing a drastic devolution of powers from the federal government to the provinces. While I donít necessarily have a problem with that philosophically, it just isnít going to happen given the current political climate.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

Can't speak for CC but, I'm not

Bwahahaha you were saying?

You almost stumble on to the idea here

Quote:

a senate system mirroring the US

Not exactly mirroring but along the same lines
 
spilledthebeer
+2
#126
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

How can equal representation across the country be a bad thing in the senate? We are not talking MP's which is determined by population. Btw we should have an electorate vote, like a few have said, to spread out the urban vote.




There is an argument to be had....................................


to suggest having a Senate......................................


has some value.....................................


because of course the Senate is SUPPOSED to be a political body offering..............................


sober, serious second thought to legislation......................................


the Cdn Senate has UNFORTUNATELY DEVOLVED.......................................... ..



into a COSTLY CLUB...........................................


for aging political HACKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!


The Senate is BADLY IN NEED...........................................


of SERIOUS REVISIONS to its budget and spending allowance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Having an elected Senate WOULD NOT.............................


STRENGTHEN our democracy.........................


since whichever party was in power would AUTOMATICALLY



control the Senate as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The existing setup has worked well enough......................


though the fiscal cost is out of line with reality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


THE ONLY PEOPLE who want to make....................


MAJOR CHANGES to our political system....................


ARE LIE-berals looking for ways........................


to GAME THE SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


FOR PERSONAL PROFIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Twin_Moose
#127
It would automatically be diverse by the election process STB, even if each region votes along their party lines, assures a mix in the senate, along with the region's uniqueness in character.
 
DaSleeper
+3
#128
Some people can't seem to understand that a less populated province get almost no representation...
An equal number of senator in each province levels the playing field.....
The way it is 72% of the population live below the 49th parallel
 
AnnaEmber
+1
#129
Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

Youíre right. It clearly caused you difficulty

lol Yeah, sure, that's gotta be it. lol
 
spilledthebeer
#130
Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

No. I said Dasí idea was dumb because it gave unequal representation. You seem to disagree yet canít make a coherent argument as to why.




LIE-berals consider it IMPERATIVE.....................................


that they be allowed to GAME the system.................................


otherwise they WILL NOT BE ABLE.....................................


to implement their social justice warrior/Soviet dictator policies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

 
spilledthebeer
#131
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper View Post

Some people can't seem to understand that a less populated province get almost no representation...
An equal number of senator in each province levels the playing field.....
The way it is 72% of the population live below the 49th parallel


And some people dont seem to UNDERSTAND the concept.......................................


OF ONE PERSON= ONE VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!


Any electoral system that DEVIATES from that..............................................


is Soviet style DICTATORSHIP...................................... ......


of the sort we see in RED CHINA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



And YOU DO RECALL...........................................


that Our idiot Boy TOLD US that "he likes the basic Chinese democracy"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!


And Our idiot Boy told us "he likes the way the Chinese get things done"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!


And papa Pierre Trudeau told us of "the genius of Chinese Chairman Mao in rushing 30 million Chinese to the gallows"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Therefore support for LIE-beral sponsored electoral reform IS SUPPORT FOR PEOPLE WHO APPLAUD MASS MURDER BY THE



VICIOUS SOVIET DICTATORSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
 
Twin_Moose
#132
None of us are arguing against the idea STB, some of us are supporting the idea of an elected senate as well, along similar lines of the US senate.
 
AnnaEmber
#133
Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

So itís interesting that some folks think giving PEI the same representation of Alberta is perfectly reasonable yet giving Hilton Beach the same representation as Toronto isnít. I believe some people will support any idea that they think benefits them without giving much thought to the general principles driving the idea. No intelligent person would expect (or should expect) a senate system mirroring the US without proposing a drastic devolution of powers from the federal government to the provinces. While I donít necessarily have a problem with that philosophically, it just isnít going to happen given the current political climate.

BTW Boomster, Iím always in the marker for vacation properties but not timeshares. I would rather purchase. Iíd say ďkeep me in mind if you see anything goodĒ but your standards are considerably below mine so donít bother.

Who thinks that?
 
AnnaEmber
#134
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Never mind Putz. His goal is to derail every thread he can.

Yeah, and I noticed he hasn't got a solution anyway.
 
AnnaEmber
#135
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Yeah, a Republic would nice.

But not one like the States has. No-one should be able to stack the Senate, judiciary, or anything in their favour.
 
spilledthebeer
#136
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

It would automatically be diverse by the election process STB, even if each region votes along their party lines, assures a mix in the senate, along with the region's uniqueness in character.




Sorry........................that is nonsense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If the election of Senators was run at the same time as election of MP`s..................................


there is every reason to assume the Senate would reflect the same public support....................................


as House of Commons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you set it up so that each election of Senate and House of Commons were separated by a couple of years...............................


then you end up with the situation we have now.............................................



with an imbalance of support and party members!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Recall Harper trying to get legislation passed in a Senate dominated by LIE-berals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It was not till Harper gave in and appointed some Conservative Senators...........................


that he made progress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And recall that it was Harper Conservatives who tried to rein in free spending Senators...............................


while LIE-berals OBSTRUCTED at every turn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!


Now consider that an Andrew Scheer Conservative govt will have the same trouble Harper did with the Senate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
spilledthebeer
#137
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaEmber View Post

But not one like the States has. No-one should be able to stack the Senate, judiciary, or anything in their favour.




THE ONLY WAY......................................


to give our Cdn Senate MORE POWER....................................


is to TAKE POWER AWAY.....................................


from the House of Commons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!


There is NO GOOD REASON..........................................


that an UN-ELECTED Senator........................................... ...............



should have power equal or even close to that of an ELECTED MP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


UNLESS you like opening the door to DICTATORSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
 
spilledthebeer
#138
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

None of us are arguing against the idea STB, some of us are supporting the idea of an elected senate as well, along similar lines of the US senate.




AS I just posted to AnnaEmber......................................... .....


THE ONLY WAY TO GIVE OUR SENATE MORE POWER.............................................


IS TO TAKE POWER AWAY FROM OUR MP`s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !


It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE....................................


FOR EVERYBODY TO WIN ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!


Either we have deficits.....................................OR NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Either we have LIE-beral RULE ..........................OR NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Either the HOuse of Commons is the seat of Cdn power....................OR NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And as I have pointed out on various occasions............................


electoral reform and proportional representation ARE GOVT KILLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I point to the CHAOS in Italy as PROOF.........................................


and I point to New Zealand which tried proportional representation...................................


an went BACK to our first past the post method!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!


It aint perfect........................................... .


BUT IT IS THE BEST AVAILABLE......................................... ........


and has the virtue of being the system that LIE-berals find it HARDEST TO GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Considering the MESS that is LAVALIN................................


WHAT JUDGEMENT WOULD A couple of Quebec Senators have to say about criminal charges for Lavalin?????????????????


When you DILUTE THE POWER ...........................................


YOU ALSO DILUTE PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!


AND THAT is what LIE-berals WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


They want all the power and all the gravy....................................


AND NO BLAME when we hit the debt wall........................................


and discover we are BANKRUPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
 
Twin_Moose
#139
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaEmber View Post

But not one like the States has. No-one should be able to stack the Senate, judiciary, or anything in their favour.

We do that here in Canada now all appointed, at least there they have to be voted in by the citizens or by the Senate in the case of SCOTUS
 
Twin_Moose
#140
Quote: Originally Posted by spilledthebeer View Post

AS I just posted to AnnaEmber......................................... .....


THE ONLY WAY TO GIVE OUR SENATE MORE POWER.............................................


IS TO TAKE POWER AWAY FROM OUR MP`s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !


It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE....................................


FOR EVERYBODY TO WIN ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!
Either we have deficits.....................................OR NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Either we have LIE-beral RULE ..........................OR NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Either the HOuse of Commons is the seat of Cdn power....................OR NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And as I have pointed out on various occasions............................
electoral reform and proportional representation ARE GOVT KILLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I point to the CHAOS in Italy as PROOF.........................................
and I point to New Zealand which tried proportional representation...................................
an went BACK to our first past the post method!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
It aint perfect........................................... .
BUT IT IS THE BEST AVAILABLE......................................... ........
and has the virtue of being the system that LIE-berals find it HARDEST TO GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Considering the MESS that is LAVALIN................................
WHAT JUDGEMENT WOULD A couple of Quebec Senators have to say about criminal charges for Lavalin?????????????????
When you DILUTE THE POWER ...........................................
YOU ALSO DILUTE PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
AND THAT is what LIE-berals WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They want all the power and all the gravy....................................
AND NO BLAME when we hit the debt wall........................................
and discover we are BANKRUPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

No more power needed in the senate just elect in the Senators, not appointees, to give us a little more representation
 
petros
+1
#141
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper View Post

The way it is 72% of the population live below the 49th parallel

The syphilis in Canada's penis.
 
Cannuck
#142
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper View Post

Some people can't seem to understand that a less populated province get almost no representation...

Nope. Pretty sure everybody understands that. The issue is what to do about it. Giving more seats per person to Islanders means less seats per person to Albertans. It doesn't fix a problem. It just hands it off to somebody else.
 
Cannuck
-1
#143
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaEmber View Post

lol Yeah, sure, that's gotta be it. lol

Good job. Admitting the problem is the first step
 
Cannuck
-1
#144
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaEmber View Post

Yeah, and I noticed he hasn't got a solution anyway.

Of course I have a solution. You seem to be having a problem grasping the concept of one person one vote. Let's get you up to speed on that first. We can get into solutions after that. Now, again, do you favour giving Hilton beach the same number of seats as Toronto. If not, why not? It's not a difficult question unless you're just playing games
 
Twin_Moose
+1
#145
Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

Of course I have a solution. You seem to be having a problem grasping the concept of one person one vote. Let's get you up to speed on that first. We can get into solutions after that. Now, again, do you favour giving Hilton beach the same number of seats as Toronto. If not, why not? It's not a difficult question unless you're just playing games

In the Senate?
 
Cannuck
-1
#146
Try and follow the conversation. I'm not interested in repeating myself
 
Twin_Moose
+1
#147
Well then you should know there is no vote for a senator, so there is no one person one vote on the subject at hand.
 
Cannuck
-1
#148
Are you really that dense? Do you not understand is that we're talking about representation?
 
Twin_Moose
+2
#149
So where is your 1 person 1 vote for the senate then? It's politically loaded through appointment now no true representation to any region just to the ruling party in parliament. We already have representation by population by 1 person 1 vote, what some of us want is the senate to be an independent overseeing body (the way it is suppose to work) also represented by 1 person 1 vote for 2 persons per province. How is this difficult for you to understand.
 
Cannuck
#150
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_man,_one_vote