Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada


AXL
#31
Numure said something about the Federal government losing a large portion of their revenue. What about the provincial equalization payments through which Quebec recieves more than any other province. Last year Quebec recieved $4.5 billion which is $3.4 billion less than any other province not to mention that Ontario and Alberta actually had to pay money into that fund. Quebec is also expected to recieve about $10 billion for social services and health care in the next year. Do not even try to tell me that Quebec would not suffer from the loss of that money.
 
Andem
Free Thinker
#32
You've got very valid points, AXL. I'm sure you've learned them very well by living in Ottawa right across the river from Hull. Thanks for posting that.

Quebec obviously gets far more than their share, but I wonder if it's just the feds bribing the province or if it's because many of the recent Prime Ministers have certain connections to the province? EIther way, it's not right and fair to the rest of Canada -- especially Ontario, BC & Alberta who make their money seemingly for the people [separatists] who want to tear Canada apart.
 
DasFX
#33
The argument for Quebec to remain in Canada should not be based on economics. Of course the economics of a split are important to consider, but if you really want to make an argument to the Quebecois to remain, you have to affect them emotionally.

Most Quebecois didn't look at the economic predictions and financial reports before voting in the last referendum; they voted the way they felt.

This federation can work, if we really want it to. Contrary to what most other English Canucks things, I believe it is English Canada that must change rather than Quebec.

The first thing is we must drop two attitudes, the first is "if they want to leave, then let them" and the other is "well let them try, we'll bring in the military". Both stances are childish and unproductive. English Canadians must put themselves in a French Canadian's shoes.

I have never heard a Quebecois person say that they are not free, that they are persecuted, that they are treated badly, that they have not civil liberties. This is not the issue.

The biggest issue is language and culture, more specifically the preservation of them. Being a minority is tough! There are about 7 million francophone in North America, compared to over 300 million Anglophones. Plus there are over 100 million Spanish speakers. The Quebecois do not want to be assimilated. There is nothing wrong with that!

Quebec feel disjointed from the rest of the country; they feel separate already. English Canadians need to try to understand why; they need to listen.

If you were to really read and listen to what some Quebecois have proposed in the past for a renewed federation, it would sound very similar to what many in the west want.

A country is supposed to be like a Family, if a member is unhappy, you do not simply kick them to the curb. Both sides will have to compromise, however I do not feel that any major concessions need to be made. All we need is open minded people on both sides understand the needs of the other and understand them. Having our Liberal or Conservative government negotiate with the BQ of PQ is pointless; they have their own agendas and have one-track minds. We need the average French and English Canadian to sit down and talk.
 
Proud_to_be_English
#34
I believe that quebec should separate. The rest of Canada has no desire to have french forced upon us. Most of the liberal politicians in Ottawa are quebecois themselves. The English-speaking majority has been severely misrepresented for far too long. If they want to phase English out of Quebec and separate then I say let them. The presence of french in the rest of Canada should be thusly not given any less of a fate. You may call me a propagator of hatred and bigotry but this is simply a mirror of what is currently taking place in quebec. If you want to point a finger then do so at the Bloc.
 
missile
Conservative
#35
We have our own little band of separatists here,in the Republic de Madawaska! Expect the bombings to begin anytime soon!
 
Proud_to_be_English
#36
I would not be opposed to NB being divided into 2 provinces, one English speaking and one French as long as the English one included Saint John, Fredericton and Moncton.
 
DasFX
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by Proud_to_be_English

I would not be opposed to NB being divided into 2 provinces, one English speaking and one French as long as the English one included Saint John, Fredericton and Moncton.

Why would Moncton be in the English part of NB? Moncton is very French. Besides, NB is small enough and has a tough enough time surviving as it is, can you image it cut into two with only 400,000 people each. This is why Mr. Lord is premier and not you.
 
Jay
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by Proud_to_be_English

I believe that quebec should separate. The rest of Canada has no desire to have french forced upon us. Most of the liberal politicians in Ottawa are quebecois themselves. The English-speaking majority has been severely misrepresented for far too long. If they want to phase English out of Quebec and separate then I say let them. The presence of french in the rest of Canada should be thusly not given any less of a fate. You may call me a propagator of hatred and bigotry but this is simply a mirror of what is currently taking place in quebec. If you want to point a finger then do so at the Bloc.


French is forced upon you?

I'm from Ontario and of French desent, but raised an Anglo. I could only wish someone would force French on me so I could learn the language.
 
Jay
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by Proud_to_be_English

I believe that quebec should separate. The rest of Canada has no desire to have french forced upon us. Most of the liberal politicians in Ottawa are quebecois themselves. The English-speaking majority has been severely misrepresented for far too long. If they want to phase English out of Quebec and separate then I say let them. The presence of french in the rest of Canada should be thusly not given any less of a fate. You may call me a propagator of hatred and bigotry but this is simply a mirror of what is currently taking place in quebec. If you want to point a finger then do so at the Bloc.


French is forced upon you?

I'm from Ontario and of French desent, but raised an Anglo. I could only wish someone would force French on me so I could learn the language.
 
Jay
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by Proud_to_be_English

I believe that quebec should separate. The rest of Canada has no desire to have french forced upon us. Most of the liberal politicians in Ottawa are quebecois themselves. The English-speaking majority has been severely misrepresented for far too long. If they want to phase English out of Quebec and separate then I say let them. The presence of french in the rest of Canada should be thusly not given any less of a fate. You may call me a propagator of hatred and bigotry but this is simply a mirror of what is currently taking place in quebec. If you want to point a finger then do so at the Bloc.


French is forced upon you?

I'm from Ontario and of French desent, but raised an Anglo. I could only wish someone would force French on me so I could learn the language.
 
jackd
#41
There is some major misconceptions and deep misunderstandings in English Canada (and China) as most would think the language issue is THE most important issue between Quebec and the rest of Canada.
Since 1755 Quebec has never felt comfortable and never accepted being part of a British colony/empire and has never fit in the mold. And don't look only at the language. Look at the culture, at the visceral misfit between the 2 groups. Quebec never accepted to be ruled by the british conquerors and, as a continuation of the same disdain for being ruled by others, we have a major problem accepting to be ruled by Ottawa. What Quebec want is to rule and govern itself without outside interference. This is not a new idea...the idea was born on the day the brits. invaded Quebec City, 3 years after having done all they could to break the back of Acadians (without much success).
 
jackd
#42
There is some major misconceptions and deep misunderstandings in English Canada (and China) as most would think the language issue is THE most important issue between Quebec and the rest of Canada.
Since 1755 Quebec has never felt comfortable and never accepted being part of a British colony/empire and has never fit in the mold. And don't look only at the language. Look at the culture, at the visceral misfit between the 2 groups. Quebec never accepted to be ruled by the british conquerors and, as a continuation of the same disdain for being ruled by others, we have a major problem accepting to be ruled by Ottawa. What Quebec want is to rule and govern itself without outside interference. This is not a new idea...the idea was born on the day the brits. invaded Quebec City, 3 years after having done all they could to break the back of Acadians (without much success).
 
jackd
#43
There is some major misconceptions and deep misunderstandings in English Canada (and China) as most would think the language issue is THE most important issue between Quebec and the rest of Canada.
Since 1755 Quebec has never felt comfortable and never accepted being part of a British colony/empire and has never fit in the mold. And don't look only at the language. Look at the culture, at the visceral misfit between the 2 groups. Quebec never accepted to be ruled by the british conquerors and, as a continuation of the same disdain for being ruled by others, we have a major problem accepting to be ruled by Ottawa. What Quebec want is to rule and govern itself without outside interference. This is not a new idea...the idea was born on the day the brits. invaded Quebec City, 3 years after having done all they could to break the back of Acadians (without much success).
 
Canadian Observer
#44
Quebecers claim they are a distinct society. Distinct as in having a tail or a third eye?

I dont see such distinction in Belgium or switzerland.

If ever Quebec gains independence , English Speakers or others discriminated by the French will fight for their own country within Quebec . I'll bet my head on that.
 
Canadian Observer
#45
Quebecers claim they are a distinct society. Distinct as in having a tail or a third eye?

I dont see such distinction in Belgium or switzerland.

If ever Quebec gains independence , English Speakers or others discriminated by the French will fight for their own country within Quebec . I'll bet my head on that.
 
Canadian Observer
#46
Quebecers claim they are a distinct society. Distinct as in having a tail or a third eye?

I dont see such distinction in Belgium or switzerland.

If ever Quebec gains independence , English Speakers or others discriminated by the French will fight for their own country within Quebec . I'll bet my head on that.
 
CrEsPo
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by Jay

French is forced upon you?

I'm from Ontario and of French desent, but raised an Anglo. I could only wish someone would force French on me so I could learn the language.

I'm also from Ontario and French is manditory from grade 1 through 9. If I remember correctly, even in Junior Kinegarden and Senior Kinegarden they "taught" you French.

I think if Quebec separated it would be bad for them. They definately won't have good relations with Canada, there goes one trading partner. They would have to create a new dollar which would definately not start out as a high worth dollar. Another thing is resources; what would they trade? Quebec alone wouldn't have sufficient resources to sell to make a profit.
 
CrEsPo
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by Jay

French is forced upon you?

I'm from Ontario and of French desent, but raised an Anglo. I could only wish someone would force French on me so I could learn the language.

I'm also from Ontario and French is manditory from grade 1 through 9. If I remember correctly, even in Junior Kinegarden and Senior Kinegarden they "taught" you French.

I think if Quebec separated it would be bad for them. They definately won't have good relations with Canada, there goes one trading partner. They would have to create a new dollar which would definately not start out as a high worth dollar. Another thing is resources; what would they trade? Quebec alone wouldn't have sufficient resources to sell to make a profit.
 
CrEsPo
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by Jay

French is forced upon you?

I'm from Ontario and of French desent, but raised an Anglo. I could only wish someone would force French on me so I could learn the language.

I'm also from Ontario and French is manditory from grade 1 through 9. If I remember correctly, even in Junior Kinegarden and Senior Kinegarden they "taught" you French.

I think if Quebec separated it would be bad for them. They definately won't have good relations with Canada, there goes one trading partner. They would have to create a new dollar which would definately not start out as a high worth dollar. Another thing is resources; what would they trade? Quebec alone wouldn't have sufficient resources to sell to make a profit.
 
Dexter Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#50
A thorny question, that I've been thinking about for years without finding a solution, or even an attitude, that satisfies me. I've been resisting posting anything in this thread for a long time, just because I'm so uncertain about what to say. I know I'd be deeply distressed if Quebec separated itself from Canada. The week before the last referendum I happened to find myself in Ottawa on business, and I made a point of going to Parliament Hill and standing behind the Centre Block of Parliament to look across the river at Quebec. The complex of feelings that overwhelmed me as I stood there defies accurate description, but I'll take a stab at it.

I remember thinking, with my eyes burning, "You dumb bastards, what are you doing to my country?" I wasn't quite sure whether that thought was directed just across the river at Quebec, or at the people in the building behind me, or both. I wanted to walk across the bridge to Quebec, but I was afraid to, because I felt I'd be unwelcome, and I furiously resented being made to feel unwelcome in part of my own country. But then I thought, is that any different from how the average Quebecois feels outside of Quebec? Probably not. I think that's the key.

This country, like any other, is not a country because of political arrangements, business deals, economic considerations, geography, or anything obvious like that. It's a state of mind, really an emotional state, of the people who live in it. Canada exists only as long as there are enough people who call themselves Canadian and believe that means something important and distinctively different from the rest of the world. I happen to be such a person.

I believe that for our own sake, and the sake of the world, we as Canadians have to work this out and keep ourselves together. The issue is fundamentally emotional, for me. Look around the planet, at the ethnic conflicts tearing people apart all over the globe. If a peaceable and civilized people like Canadians can't work this out, what possible hope is there for anyone else to ever resolve their differences?

None at all. If anyone can prove it can be done, we can. I think we have to. If we fail, Canada as I know it will cease to exist, and the world will be a poorer place for that.

Dex
 
Dexter Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#51
A thorny question, that I've been thinking about for years without finding a solution, or even an attitude, that satisfies me. I've been resisting posting anything in this thread for a long time, just because I'm so uncertain about what to say. I know I'd be deeply distressed if Quebec separated itself from Canada. The week before the last referendum I happened to find myself in Ottawa on business, and I made a point of going to Parliament Hill and standing behind the Centre Block of Parliament to look across the river at Quebec. The complex of feelings that overwhelmed me as I stood there defies accurate description, but I'll take a stab at it.

I remember thinking, with my eyes burning, "You dumb bastards, what are you doing to my country?" I wasn't quite sure whether that thought was directed just across the river at Quebec, or at the people in the building behind me, or both. I wanted to walk across the bridge to Quebec, but I was afraid to, because I felt I'd be unwelcome, and I furiously resented being made to feel unwelcome in part of my own country. But then I thought, is that any different from how the average Quebecois feels outside of Quebec? Probably not. I think that's the key.

This country, like any other, is not a country because of political arrangements, business deals, economic considerations, geography, or anything obvious like that. It's a state of mind, really an emotional state, of the people who live in it. Canada exists only as long as there are enough people who call themselves Canadian and believe that means something important and distinctively different from the rest of the world. I happen to be such a person.

I believe that for our own sake, and the sake of the world, we as Canadians have to work this out and keep ourselves together. The issue is fundamentally emotional, for me. Look around the planet, at the ethnic conflicts tearing people apart all over the globe. If a peaceable and civilized people like Canadians can't work this out, what possible hope is there for anyone else to ever resolve their differences?

None at all. If anyone can prove it can be done, we can. I think we have to. If we fail, Canada as I know it will cease to exist, and the world will be a poorer place for that.

Dex
 
Dexter Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#52
A thorny question, that I've been thinking about for years without finding a solution, or even an attitude, that satisfies me. I've been resisting posting anything in this thread for a long time, just because I'm so uncertain about what to say. I know I'd be deeply distressed if Quebec separated itself from Canada. The week before the last referendum I happened to find myself in Ottawa on business, and I made a point of going to Parliament Hill and standing behind the Centre Block of Parliament to look across the river at Quebec. The complex of feelings that overwhelmed me as I stood there defies accurate description, but I'll take a stab at it.

I remember thinking, with my eyes burning, "You dumb bastards, what are you doing to my country?" I wasn't quite sure whether that thought was directed just across the river at Quebec, or at the people in the building behind me, or both. I wanted to walk across the bridge to Quebec, but I was afraid to, because I felt I'd be unwelcome, and I furiously resented being made to feel unwelcome in part of my own country. But then I thought, is that any different from how the average Quebecois feels outside of Quebec? Probably not. I think that's the key.

This country, like any other, is not a country because of political arrangements, business deals, economic considerations, geography, or anything obvious like that. It's a state of mind, really an emotional state, of the people who live in it. Canada exists only as long as there are enough people who call themselves Canadian and believe that means something important and distinctively different from the rest of the world. I happen to be such a person.

I believe that for our own sake, and the sake of the world, we as Canadians have to work this out and keep ourselves together. The issue is fundamentally emotional, for me. Look around the planet, at the ethnic conflicts tearing people apart all over the globe. If a peaceable and civilized people like Canadians can't work this out, what possible hope is there for anyone else to ever resolve their differences?

None at all. If anyone can prove it can be done, we can. I think we have to. If we fail, Canada as I know it will cease to exist, and the world will be a poorer place for that.

Dex
 
Machjo
#53
Sorry to break this to you, Dexter, but Canadians are just as human as anyone else on this planet, and ethnic relations are no better, or worse, in Canada as anywhere else on the face of this planet. I'm both a French and English Canadian, have lived in French Canada, English Canada and China, and have visited the USA and Xinjiang Autonomous Region. The tension is everywhere and getting worse. If we want to solve this problem, it's got to be solved on a worldwide scale.
 
Machjo
#54
Sorry to break this to you, Dexter, but Canadians are just as human as anyone else on this planet, and ethnic relations are no better, or worse, in Canada as anywhere else on the face of this planet. I'm both a French and English Canadian, have lived in French Canada, English Canada and China, and have visited the USA and Xinjiang Autonomous Region. The tension is everywhere and getting worse. If we want to solve this problem, it's got to be solved on a worldwide scale.
 
Machjo
#55
Sorry to break this to you, Dexter, but Canadians are just as human as anyone else on this planet, and ethnic relations are no better, or worse, in Canada as anywhere else on the face of this planet. I'm both a French and English Canadian, have lived in French Canada, English Canada and China, and have visited the USA and Xinjiang Autonomous Region. The tension is everywhere and getting worse. If we want to solve this problem, it's got to be solved on a worldwide scale.
 
Dexter Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

...ethnic relations are no better, or worse, in Canada as anywhere else on the face of this planet.

Nope, can't agree with that one. We're not shooting each other. Yet.

I agree it's a global problem, but I strongly doubt it can be attacked globally. There's no global solution, there are only local solutions, because each situation has local origins. What might work to resolve the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, for instance, probably won't work in Chechnya, or Darfur, or Indonesia, or East Timor, or Sri Lanka...

Who was it said all politics is local? Whoever it was, he was right.
 
Dexter Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#57
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

...ethnic relations are no better, or worse, in Canada as anywhere else on the face of this planet.

Nope, can't agree with that one. We're not shooting each other. Yet.

I agree it's a global problem, but I strongly doubt it can be attacked globally. There's no global solution, there are only local solutions, because each situation has local origins. What might work to resolve the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, for instance, probably won't work in Chechnya, or Darfur, or Indonesia, or East Timor, or Sri Lanka...

Who was it said all politics is local? Whoever it was, he was right.
 
Dexter Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#58
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

...ethnic relations are no better, or worse, in Canada as anywhere else on the face of this planet.

Nope, can't agree with that one. We're not shooting each other. Yet.

I agree it's a global problem, but I strongly doubt it can be attacked globally. There's no global solution, there are only local solutions, because each situation has local origins. What might work to resolve the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, for instance, probably won't work in Chechnya, or Darfur, or Indonesia, or East Timor, or Sri Lanka...

Who was it said all politics is local? Whoever it was, he was right.
 
Canadian Dragon
#59
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

...ethnic relations are no better, or worse, in Canada as anywhere else on the face of this planet.

Nope, can't agree with that one. We're not shooting each other. Yet.

I agree it's a global problem, but I strongly doubt it can be attacked globally. There's no global solution, there are only local solutions, because each situation has local origins. What might work to resolve the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, for instance, probably won't work in Chechnya, or Darfur, or Indonesia, or East Timor, or Sri Lanka...

Who was it said all politics is local? Whoever it was, he was right.

 
Canadian Dragon
#60
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

...ethnic relations are no better, or worse, in Canada as anywhere else on the face of this planet.

Nope, can't agree with that one. We're not shooting each other. Yet.

I agree it's a global problem, but I strongly doubt it can be attacked globally. There's no global solution, there are only local solutions, because each situation has local origins. What might work to resolve the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, for instance, probably won't work in Chechnya, or Darfur, or Indonesia, or East Timor, or Sri Lanka...

Who was it said all politics is local? Whoever it was, he was right.

 

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