Car that runs on air


Unforgiven
#1
Kind of a cool idea though I wonder what the other issues are like heating and air conditioning, safety and parts availability? Looks like a great little commuter though.

YouTube - ‪*** Car Runs on Air! FREE ENERGY! Even Self Sustaining! Why are these not made by GM?! ***‬‏
 
karrie
#2
Where do they get this 'it costs nothing to fill' idea? Compressed air is not energy free. It is also not emission free, as you have to factor in the power plants it takes to run compressors.
 
Dexter Sinister
#3
Any time you hear the phrase "perpetual motion" or "free energy" you can assume you're being lied to. The laws of thermodynamics are unavoidable. It takes energy to move the mass of that car, it comes from compressed air, which took energy to compress, and you can't get out of the compressed air the energy it took to compress it, there'll always be some losses which have to be made up some other way. Eventually it's going to go back to the combustion of something, somewhere, even if it's solar-produced electricity. It will never be possible to run the vehicle on compressed air and use its momentum to drive a compressor to keep it refueled, it'll inevitably run down. The energy used to move the vehicle won't be available to recompress the air, it'll always use more compressed air than it can generate.
 
In Between Man
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Any time you hear the phrase "perpetual motion" or "free energy" you can assume you're being lied to. The laws of thermodynamics are unavoidable. It takes energy to move the mass of that car, it comes from compressed air, which took energy to compress, and you can't get out of the compressed air the energy it took to compress it, there'll always be some losses which have to be made up some other way. Eventually it's going to go back to the combustion of something, somewhere, even if it's solar-produced electricity. It will never be possible to run the vehicle on compressed air and use its momentum to drive a compressor to keep it refueled, it'll inevitably run down. The energy used to move the vehicle won't be available to recompress the air, it'll always use more compressed air than it can generate.

Remember back in the day there was a thread where people posted music videos for what songs they thought suited certain posters, and someone posted "She blinded me with science" for you?

That was suiting... and fun! aaaahh good times....
 
Tonington
#5
Compressed air is better for storing energy than it is for propelling vehicles. With the intermittent generation from renewable energy, it makes sense to store excess generation during off-peak hours for use during high demand hours. Compressed air is one solution that gets mentioned in gap assessments.
 
TenPenny
#6
The reason that compressed air is used for tools is that the tools can be much lighter. That's why they're used for assembly lines, mechanics, etc. Not because they are efficient.

As a rule of thumb, the compressor needs to be 5 x what the work you need the air to do. In other words, if you're running an impact wrench that is a 1 hp wrench, you need a 5 hp compressor.
 
bill barilko
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Any time you hear the phrase "perpetual motion" or "free energy" you can assume you're being lied to. The laws of thermodynamics are unavoidable. It takes energy to move the mass of that car, it comes from compressed air, which took energy to compress, and you can't get out of the compressed air the energy it took to compress it, there'll always be some losses which have to be made up some other way. Eventually it's going to go back to the combustion of something, somewhere, even if it's solar-produced electricity. It will never be possible to run the vehicle on compressed air and use its momentum to drive a compressor to keep it refueled, it'll inevitably run down. The energy used to move the vehicle won't be available to recompress the air, it'll always use more compressed air than it can generate.

How about rubber bands?
 
Dexter Sinister
#8
Or hamsters running in wheels... Might get a thousandth of a horsepower out of a hamster, a rubber band maybe a millionth. Unless it was a really BIG one.
 
Angstrom
#9
They have Car's that run on Compressed Air in India already.
Its used for city driving and works fine
They only need a tiny bit of gas to compress the air.
Nothing even close to what our car's use up and even better then hybrids .
Its really smart so don't plan on seeing this in NA any time soon.
 
Unforgiven
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Any time you hear the phrase "perpetual motion" or "free energy" you can assume you're being lied to. The laws of thermodynamics are unavoidable. It takes energy to move the mass of that car, it comes from compressed air, which took energy to compress, and you can't get out of the compressed air the energy it took to compress it, there'll always be some losses which have to be made up some other way. Eventually it's going to go back to the combustion of something, somewhere, even if it's solar-produced electricity. It will never be possible to run the vehicle on compressed air and use its momentum to drive a compressor to keep it refueled, it'll inevitably run down. The energy used to move the vehicle won't be available to recompress the air, it'll always use more compressed air than it can generate.

Skepticism is good Cynicism isn't. Prefixing perpetual motion with what if as happens in the video, removes the lie from the claim.

Though from the video most of the details are left out, it does beg the question "is this better than what we currently have?" With gas at $1.29 a liter, probably. Even using a gas engine to compress the air to begin with, the amount of fuel used is far less than the amount of gas it would use to move the car the same amount. If anything, it appears on first blush to be simply a more efficient way to use that fuel. That's the important thing here.
 
cranky
#11
200 miles per tank?

I have a 30 gallon tank on an aircompressor, and I can't get 10 minutes of turning a disc grinder without it requiring more air.
 
taxslave
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by cranky View Post

200 miles per tank?

I have a 30 gallon tank on an aircompressor, and I can't get 10 minutes of turning a disc grinder without it requiring more air.

Try using a 1 in impact. Takes about 11 cubic feet/min at 120 psi. I don't see a car using much smaller motor so unless they have found a way to make a much more efficient motor. The video doesn't show much of the important parts. More like a dog & pony show.
 
Ron in Regina
#13
I received an Email a while back about something like this:

YouTube - ‪How an Opposed Piston Engine with two crank works.‬‏

It described a 2 cylinder, 4 piston, turbo charged motor. Big HP in a little package, with
very good mileage.
 
Angstrom
#14
Here is a link to a car that started production in 2008 in India. It runs on compressed air.

World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer - Popular Mechanics
 
TenPenny
+1
#15  Top Rated Post
The air tank on the car is at 4500 psi!

While the car is zero emissions, the air has to be compressed somewhere.
 
Unforgiven
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post

Here is a link to a car that started production in 2008 in India. It runs on compressed air.

World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer - Popular Mechanics

Yeah that looks like the car in the video I posted. Cool that it's in production somewhere. I wonder if we'll be smart enough to open up a plant to produce them here for the North American market. Still wonder about heat and air conditioning though.
 
lone wolf
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny View Post

The air tank on the car is at 4500 psi!

While the car is zero emissions, the air has to be compressed somewhere.

4500psi? I'll bet that makes for some spectacular crashes....
 
Ron in Regina
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

I received an Email a while back about something like this:

YouTube - ‪How an Opposed Piston Engine with two crank works.‬‏

It described a 2 cylinder, 4 piston, turbo charged motor. Big HP in a little package, with
very good mileage.


I was talking about this:

Watch "Opposed Piston Opposed Cylinder Engine" Video at Engineering TV


It’s called OPOC (Opposed Piston Opposed Cylinder), and it’s a turbocharged two-stroke, two-cylinder, with four pistons, two in each cylinder, that will run on gasoline, diesel or ethanol. The two pistons, inside a single cylinder, pump toward and away from each other, thus allowing a cycle to be completed twice as quickly as a conventional engine while balancing it's own loads.
The heavy lifting for this unconventional concept was performed Prof. Peter Hofbauer. During his 20 years at VW, Hofbauer headed up, among other things, development of VW’s first diesel engine and the VR6.
The OPOC has been in development for several years, and the company claims it’s 30 percent lighter, one quarter the size and achieves 50 percent better fuel economy than a conventional turbo diesel engine.
They’re predicting 100 MPG in a conventional car.
Last edited by Ron in Regina; Jun 11th, 2011 at 01:58 PM..
 
Nuggler
#19
Hell, they could power the Indy 500 on the hot air emanating from the Ottawa parliament buildings alone.
 
lone wolf
#20
File:Jumo205 cutview 02.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some of that old school stuff does have its place today. The Jumo above and Fairbanks-Morse both worked in the same principle - from what I can see....
 
TenPenny
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

I was talking about this:

Watch "Opposed Piston Opposed Cylinder Engine" Video at Engineering TV


Its called OPOC (Opposed Piston Opposed Cylinder), and its a turbocharged two-stroke, two-cylinder, with four pistons, two in each cylinder, that will run on gasoline, diesel or ethanol. The two pistons, inside a single cylinder, pump toward and away from each other, thus allowing a cycle to be completed twice as quickly as a conventional engine while balancing it's own loads.
The heavy lifting for this unconventional concept was performed Prof. Peter Hofbauer. During his 20 years at VW, Hofbauer headed up, among other things, development of VWs first diesel engine and the VR6.
The OPOC has been in development for several years, and the company claims its 30 percent lighter, one quarter the size and achieves 50 percent better fuel economy than a conventional turbo diesel engine.
Theyre predicting 100 MPG in a conventional car.


The old Fairbanks Morse diesel locomotive engines were this style, two pistons in each cylinder.

Complicated and not reliable.
 
Ron in Regina
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny View Post

The old Fairbanks Morse diesel locomotive engines were this style, two pistons in each cylinder.

Complicated and not reliable.


That was then. Technology has marched on. I'm not defending this design as all
I know is what I've read....but I'm keeping an open mind. Seems worth checking
out, at least.
 
YukonJack
#23
Vehicle that runs on hot air???

Halleluyah, a car for liberals! Unlimited supply of fuel!
 
lone wolf
#24
Think of it.... You'd never have to walk again - especially if you're passed on the left.

I wonder if the air motor concept would work better in a rotary or turbine engine base? Fewer moving parts makes more energy available to drive the wheels.



 
cranky
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post

Kind of a cool idea though I wonder what the other issues are like heating and air conditioning, safety and parts availability? Looks like a great little commuter though.

YouTube - ‪*** Car Runs on Air! FREE ENERGY! Even Self Sustaining! Why are these not made by GM?! ***‬‏

OP, science is not your forte, is it?

let me fill you in on some basic science: where there are moving parts, there is friction, where there is friction, there is heat, where there is heat loss, there are energy losses, where there are energy losses.....ie THE REAL WORLD!.......there is no chance in hell that perpetual motion will ever happen

Take my advice, the next time you see an article about perpetual motion, run. run very far.
 

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