Define 'support our troops'


Locutus
#1
If you can. Thank you.

You know, such as:

You hope they come home safe to their families.
You send them a Tim Horton's gift certificate.
You hope they complete their objective.
You write them letters of encouragement.


But maybe, you think that wishing them well is akin to supporting the government of the day. Or, you think it's trendy to wear fashionably colourful ribbons and wristbands.

Remember, this is a volunteer military we have. I'll classify 'troops' as being just that, men and women that choose to enlist in the Canadian military with the knowledge (these days especially) that they may be placed in harm's way.

Now, if some folk 'support' our troops, this implies that some folk do not. Else, why would there be a ruckass in some towns like Toronto? Maybe a large ribbon needs to be hung from the CN Tower or their provincial legislature. I personally cannot fathom anyone not supporting their troops, but let's assume there are some of those types out there for a moment. What exactly do they support against our troops? Do they wish that they will die? Or, do they use this as a way to protest their unhappiness with the ruling government of the day? Thus, using the troops as a pawn, a proxy, in their efforts to have their voice heard? If so, they need to find a more mature way of sharing their angst. I'd like to see all troops home safe, and sooner than later. If you do not support these young people, then write them a letter at their base in Kandahar to let them know how much you despise their efforts.

OP ATHENA - Kandahar, Afghanistan

Any Canadian Forces Member
OP ATHENA
PO BOX 5058 STN FORCES
BELLEVILLE ON K8N 5W6
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
#2
First, welcome to the Forum.

Second, my way of supporting the troops is to say BRING THEM HOME, NOW!!
 
Locutus
#3
Thanks for the welcome.

Bringing troops home can be an easy thing to say. Of course, all parents and families wish their loved-ones to be home too. Truth is that troops have been and are deployed for various reasons around the globe, regardless of nationality. If they cannot support them, especially in a volunteer army, I have know use for them.

Wonder what might have happened if the bring-them-homes were allowed to succeed during the second world war. And we didn't even know what Hitler was actually doing. We all wish they were home too but reality cannot be wished away. They do the job that some of the bring-'em-homes will always cower-away from.
 
Unforgiven
#4
It seems that "Support Our Troops" has become more of a weapon to bash some political opponent than anything else.

Supporting Our Troops to me means being vocal about making sure that those people fighting on our behalf have the tools they need to do the job right. That while they are away, we'll look out for their families and see that there is a home life for them to come back to. And should they die in service to our country and myself, it is my duty to make sure that those in charge on this side of the war, do the right thing by them.

Personaly I find that money becomes no object when I'm about to die. When my wife or kids are at stake, I don't care about the costs, I'll deal with that later, I just want them safe and with me in good health. So I don't think I can moraly hold my head up should someone who is going into harms way to restore order to chaos on my behalf run into problems because of supplies or lack of money.

Does anyone remember why they are over in Afghanistan?
 
thomaska
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post

It seems that "Support Our Troops" has become more of a weapon to bash some political opponent than anything else.

You're absolutely correct here. However it works both ways. Here in the states the right and left have the same arguments about who supports the troops more. When all of us in military know for a fact that they don't give a damn about us. It is all about the votes, and it is all about saying whatever needs to be said to get into or stay in power.

And the fact that we put up with it boggles me too. Sometimes I really wonder if civilian control of the military ought not be suspended when it becomes obvious that the politicians "aren't watching the show anymore, and are just fighting over the remote"
 
eh1eh
#6
Displaying a little emblem on the back of a vehicle is not supporting the troops it's supporting your ego. "Good for me I have a sticker that says I support the troops therefore people will like me" Why not do some of the things mentioned above then you can feel good about yourself. Car sticker or not.
Last edited by eh1eh; Jun 21st, 2007 at 08:40 AM..Reason: sp
 
BitWhys
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Locutus View Post

...If they cannot support them, especially in a volunteer army, I have know[sic] use for them...

kind of the long way around, but at least you're honest.
 
Kreskin
#8
Toronto was an example of political grandstanding. Municipal politicians should be concerned about land use/development/taxation, business development , public safety and transportation, not national affairs. To question a yellow ribbon program - how unpatriotic (possibly evil and without conscience). Even the mayor of Winnipeg jumped in with both feet to squirrel away some political nuts.
 
BitWhys
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin View Post

... how unpatriotic (possibly evil and without conscience)...

funny thing about war. its makes people treat patriotism like its some sort of higher calling.
 
Walter
#10
I pray for them and for their enemies, although the prayers are not the same for both groups.
 
BitWhys
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Walter View Post

I pray for them and for their enemies, although the prayers are not the same for both groups.

The church I attend these days has a nasty habit of using that stupid "protect them as they protect us" (boy is THAT ever loaded) internet mailer prayer every week but whether a prayer for peace is included in the mix is hit and miss. I just shake my head.
 
thomaska
#12
Funny thing about Patriotism, it sure annoys the un-patriotic.
 
BitWhys
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by thomaska View Post

Funny thing about Patriotism, it sure annoys the un-patriotic.

What's even funnier is that over the last two days the people defending the yellow ribbon campaign have been insisting its not about patriotism at all. This whole thing would be less absurd if the warmongers could pick a horse for a change.
 
Kreskin
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by thomaska View Post

Funny thing about Patriotism, it sure annoys the un-patriotic.

That's classic stuff. You either support the spending of other peoples money on yellow ribbons or your unpatriotic. The politicians love that sort of division. That's why they do it. One must be with the terrorists if they don't hop on their political spending campaign. Good vs evil all that shlock.
 
ottawabill
#15
Support our troops...

1. Support their families while they are gone.
  • by way of government services
  • Supporting organizations that help the families left behind. physical and emotional support
  • email to a member of our Armed forces or family
2. Support for wounded Soldiers
  • A wounded soldiers familyshould not have to worry about anything except getting their family member back on their feet.
3. Support for killed troop family
  • all funeral expenses paid...full beneifts for suviving families
We expect this for other first response people..police, fire fighters etc... the Armed forces are another first response unit...There are ordered to do hard jobs and their duty driven ideals gives then the courage to go.

Talk to someone in the service....none have gone to kill people..all are hoping to make a difference. They are making that difference even if our government spends little to no time telling the public about the good things that come out of our service.



 
tracy
#16
Are you allowed to do that "Any armed forces member" thing anymore? You aren't allowed to do it for the US military.

I don't have a yellow ribbon or a yellow bracelet or a yellow sticker on my car. I've never been to a support the troops rally. I am completely apolitical down here. But, I do write to my marine. I talk to him on the phone when he calls me and I look forward to seeing him when he gets back. It wouldn't mean as much for me to write to someone I've never met.
 
Walter
#17
Another way I support the troops is by voting Conservative.
 
ottawabill
#18
U.S.A.
http://www.usafns.com/email.shtml

Canada
http://www.dnd.ca/site/Community/Mes...rd/index_e.asp
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#19
Supporting the troops means a lot of things. If we were to bring the home right now we would be sending a hell of lot more over there in the future. It no longer matters who started it or whether it was a good idea, or any other excuse, fact is we have big trouble in the most troubled region in the world. Was I in favor of going there in the first place? Afghanistan yes, Iraq no.
Afghanistan is only partly a NATO Mission, it is actually sanctioned by the United Nations, and administered by NATO. The Taliban was a threat, not so much as a national power, but as an internation terror organization with political influence, protected by a nation.
Iraq was a dictatorship established by the United States and originally supported by America, until Saddam decided to take power into his own hands.
Well thinking about it, America also set up the rebel basis in Afghanistan and paid for the arms to fight the Russians and those same rebels now relabelled terrorists are Americas pain.
None the less and no thanks to America the Taliban needed to be removed.
Supporting the troops means we respect what they are doing and when they come home, the injured should be looked after and those who need jobs and retraining should get their full measure due to them.
Brining them home and then asking them to go back again to take the same territory twice would not be supporting the troops, and while I don't like what I see, I realize we are in a quandry with no easy answers
 
JBeee
#20
Support our troops when they have no idea why..or good reason for, being there?
I think not. The Taliban done fu*k-all to initiate Canada`s presence over there.
Enough of them have given their lives for no good reason.

Fu*k 9/11. The US had it coming to them from the get-go.

Weather dragged home by the scruff of their necks or carried home in body-bags makes no difference to me as long as our leaders continue to kiss US ass by doing their dirty work.
 
#juan
No Party Affiliation
#21
All Canadians paying income tax support our troops whether they like it or not. They can express their voluntary support in any way they choose whether it is by writing letters of encouragement, or wearing a ribbon, or just having a kind thought about them. I can't imagine any Canadian worth his/her spit not supporting the troops. The troops go where the government of the day sends them and a lot of them come home either in a bag or debilitated by injuries. Not supporting them seems shallow or stupid. I was in the military during a time when we had no wars going on and I had the distinct feeling that a lot of civilians didn't care one way or another, or maybe disapproved a little because their taxes were paying for the military. Whatever the case, when our soldiers are in harm's way it seems fitting to wear a ribbon at least figuratively.
 
Minority Observer84
#22
Again supporting the troops being used as a right wing head bashing tactic .
First of all it's a volunteer army which means everyone placed in a position of danger right now choose to be in the armed forces and choose the life of a soldier which is often short and violent .
Second municipal traffic is an expression of the people of the community the solution to the TO quagmire is to have a city wide vote on the issue i say this because i'am from there and i know my community they will strike this down because city cars have no place advocating a political position . That is what i believe but if the majority of the population in Toronto vote to keep the stickers on who am i to oppose . Some of us oppose the deployment of Canadian troops in Afghanistan and there is no distinction between supporting the troops and supporting the war . All loss of human life saddens me regardless of the nationality of the dead and the issues of Afghanistan are far too complex to be solved by a gun .
Also note to the person who compared the war in Afghanistan to world war , your comment shows a deep ignorance either of History of political reality in Afghanistan which is deeply rooted in it's violent history .
 
JBeee
#23
Scarifying Canadians is no help to Afghanistan


by Mohamed Elmasry
(Saturday, June 30, 2007)
"Only 26 per cent of respondents to the same survey thought Canada’s military mission should be extended "if that is necessary to complete our goals there.""



A recent poll suggests that two-thirds (or 67 per cent) of Canadians want the country's military mission in Afghanistan to end as scheduled in 2009. According to the polling firm Decima Research, this result has been true "in every region of Canada, among men and women, all age and income groups and among both urban and rural residents."
Only 26 per cent of respondents to the same survey thought Canada’s military mission should be extended "if that is necessary to complete our goals there."
But what, exactly, are Canada’s goals in Afghanistan?

Just a few days after the above results were made public, NATO secretary-general, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, flew to Ottawa to meet Prime Minister Stephen Harper and urge Canada to continue the fight in Afghanistan beyond the country's self-imposed deadline of February 2009.
"I know how dramatic it is if Canadian soldiers pay the highest price," de Hoop Scheffer said, "But I still say, you are there for a good cause . .. you are there to defend basic universal values."
His plea came one day after three Canadian soldiers were killed, bringing to 60 the number of Canadian troops who've lost their lives in Afghanistan since 2002.
But the "good cause" of which he speaks now has a serious credibility problem for many Canadians, who are seeing de Hoop Scheffer as a paid salesman who repeats what George W. Bush has been saying since 9/11 about terrorism, democracy, freedom, etc. And like Bush, de Hoop Scheffer seems to have minimal respect for human lives. This means any human lives - those of Afghani men, women and children, who are killed daily; those of Canadians killed far from home; and those of his fellow Dutch citizens who number among the international forces posted there.
In the meantime, an association of Quebec-based anti-war activists, the War on War Coalition, has sent individual letters to 3,000 Canadian military families urging eligible soldiers to refuse their upcoming deployments to Afghanistan.

The letter says that "the Afghan mission is a web of lies" and exhorts military personnel to reconsider going, because "you are not obligated to go to Afghanistan to become cannon fodder in this unjust war."
The letter goes on to say that it is sent "in the spirit of dialogue and debate" and warns that Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan risk complicity in activities "tantamount to war crimes," such as civilian deaths.

The coalition also set up a protest in Quebec City to coincide with a military parade where 2,500 Canadian Forces soldiers - the bulk of them from Quebec - were bidding farewell to family and friends before going to Afghanistan.
"Our aim isn't to attack the soldiers or their families; we want to open... the debate on our presence in Afghanistan and why we should participate in this conflict," said coalition spokesperson Joseph Bergeron. "We want them to know that the reasons they've been given for going aren't the real ones ... they are not going to instill democracy with the barrel of a rifle. The Afghans don't want them there."

Faced with such strong opposition to Canada’s presence in Afghanistan, Prime Minister Stephen Harper has declared that Canada's military role in Afghanistan will continue past February 2009 only if there's a consensus on the home front among political leaders and Canadians.
"I will want to see some degree of consensus among Canadians about how we move forward after that," he said. "I would hope that the view of Canadians is not to simply abandon Afghanistan. I think there is some expectation that there would be a new role after February 2009, but obviously those decisions have yet to be taken."

"This mission will end in February 2009," Harper continued. "Should Canada be involved militarily after that date, we've been clear that [it] would have to be approved by the Canadian Parliament ... I don't want to send people into a mission if the opposition is going to ... undercut the dangerous work that [soldiers] are doing in the field."

This was a dramatic change for Harper, who has said until recently that Canada will not "cut and run" from Afghanistan, a point he drove home during a visit to Kandahar just a month ago.
"You know that our work is not complete. You know that we cannot just put down our arms and hope for peace," Harper told Canadian troops then.
"You know that we can't set arbitrary deadlines and simply wish for the best."
But Harper's change of mind received a cool reception from the opposition.
Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion accused the Prime Minister of "creating ambiguity."
If Harper was "responsible," he would give notice to NATO and Afghanistan that Canada would be pulling out in 2009, Dion said. "He should be very clear. He should say that the combat mission in Kandahar ends in February 2009."
And for the majority of Canadians, whose lives have been scarified for too long by the Bush-Harper-NATO war dance, February 2009 cannot come soon enough.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Minority Observer84 View Post

Again supporting the troops being used as a right wing head bashing tactic .
First of all it's a volunteer army which means everyone placed in a position of danger right now choose to be in the armed forces and choose the life of a soldier which is often short and violent .
Second municipal traffic is an expression of the people of the community the solution to the TO quagmire is to have a city wide vote on the issue i say this because i'am from there and i know my community they will strike this down because city cars have no place advocating a political position . That is what i believe but if the majority of the population in Toronto vote to keep the stickers on who am i to oppose . Some of us oppose the deployment of Canadian troops in Afghanistan and there is no distinction between supporting the troops and supporting the war . All loss of human life saddens me regardless of the nationality of the dead and the issues of Afghanistan are far too complex to be solved by a gun .
Also note to the person who compared the war in Afghanistan to world war , your comment shows a deep ignorance either of History of political reality in Afghanistan which is deeply rooted in it's violent history .

I sometimes think if terrorists set off a nuclear weapon in downtown Toronto, the average IQ in the country would jump at least 10 points..........

\You CAN support the troops and not the mission. It requires that you understand that soldiers are simply a tool of our democratically elected government......individuals that have volunteered to serve by being the cutting edge of our foreign policy. Therefore one supports them by demanding they have the tools necessary to do their job as well and as safely as possible, one supports them by demanding the gov't treats them as well as possible, one supports them by personally treating them with respect....

None of these things require you take any specific political stance.
 
Minority Observer84
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

I sometimes think if terrorists set off a nuclear weapon in downtown Toronto, the average IQ in the country would jump at least 10 points..........

\You CAN support the troops and not the mission. It requires that you understand that soldiers are simply a tool of our democratically elected government......individuals that have volunteered to serve by being the cutting edge of our foreign policy. Therefore one supports them by demanding they have the tools necessary to do their job as well and as safely as possible, one supports them by demanding the gov't treats them as well as possible, one supports them by personally treating them with respect....

None of these things require you take any specific political stance.

I Agree with you within those parameters supporting the troops is not only fine but noble . Ensuring that they and their families are cared for after they return , Making sure they are well equiped and well supplied .
That being said that the mantra of "support our troops " has been used to oppress the voices that are opposed to the war , my form of supporting the troops is to call for their instant return and those stickers are a message of support for the mission it's just latent way of saying i support the troops .
 
triedit
#26
For me, supporting the troops means not suggesting they should "know better" or have some sort of moral obligation to NOT go to war. For me, it is standing up to people and governments who harbor deserters. In my world, it is maintaining contact with the families of those serving and listening when they need an ear. Sometimes it means sending books and stuff over. Sometimes it means talking about it on forums and sending emails to politicians.

Sometimes it means keeping my yap shut when someone doesnt agree with me and I know thier mind is closed.
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
#27
Wonder what might have happened if the bring-them-homes were allowed to succeed during the second world war.


Hitler and Hirohito declared war on us and that's why we fought.

In Iraq, nobody declared war on us nor caused us any harm. We did not ask for nor cause WW II. By contrast, Bush caused the war on Iraq just like Hitler did with the earlier war.
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#28
There is some good discussion here, yes it is a NATO mission under the so called control of the UN, and I support our troops and the effort in Afghanistan, however I do not support the mission in Iraq as they were attacked, purely for American political reasons.
As for 911, I'm not sure little kids in a daycare deserved to be murdered by fanatics in jetliners, I am not sure civillians in offices deserved to die like that.
I also don't believe that thousands of Iraqis needed to die at the hands of American carpet bombing.
Now America does deserve what it gets, in many ways and the world is slowly turning on them.
The murder of women and children is hard for me to justify, unless both side declare the term total war, as happened toward the end of WW2.
 
Liberalman
Free Thinker
#29

Patriotism is a higher calling and that’s what makes us all citizens of this great country.

If you want to enjoy this country then you have to be prepared to give your life to defend it.

I like peace and I do not like war and no soldier likes war they would rather be home with their families enjoying life.

In order to enjoy life and liberties we got to be prepared to fight for it or else we lose it.

We have to show the world that Canada will share and help other countries but if they try to take it by force then we will defend it to the death if need be.

I support our troops they do a great job and if asked I will go and any Canadian worth his or her salt will go because this country is worth it.
 
Dreadful Nonsense
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

Patriotism is a higher calling and that’s what makes us all citizens of this great country.

If you want to enjoy this country then you have to be prepared to give your life to defend it.

I like peace and I do not like war and no soldier likes war they would rather be home with their families enjoying life.

In order to enjoy life and liberties we got to be prepared to fight for it or else we lose it.

We have to show the world that Canada will share and help other countries but if they try to take it by force then we will defend it to the death if need be.

I support our troops they do a great job and if asked I will go and any Canadian worth his or her salt will go because this country is worth it.

I really can't argue with this. It's really a big part of how I think the majority feel in this country....
Deep down if it ended up hand to hand down the street from everyone ...All would feel the same excepting cowards.And sometimes one can't blame a coward for being one and it's our duty to protect the week as well.
 

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