World economies should look to Canada for success, Stephen Harper says


petros
#1
CALGARY — Prime Minister Stephen Harper told a gathering of party supporters that other nations hoping for economic success in the future, must “become what Canada is today.”

At his annual Stampede-week barbecue in his Calgary riding, Saturday, he said that the country will not “slip back” under his leadership.

Harper said measures his government has taken, such as reforming immigration, expanding trade and streamlining environmental reviews, put Canada in a much stronger position than other traditional economic powerhouses like the United States, Europe and Japan.

“New economic powers continue to rise and older ones, ones very much like our own country, continue to struggle. They’re weighed down by debts they can’t control, by entitlements you can no longer afford and growth that shows no signs of returning,” he said.

“Under our conservative government, Canada will not slip back the way so many other developed countries are slipping back,” he said. “To succeed what the world must become in the future is what Canada is today.”

Several members of Harper’s cabinet were among the tent crowd, including Defence Minister Peter McKay, Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver and Immigration Minister Jason Kenney.

A litany of Conservative MPs, senators and Alberta ministers also attended.

Alberta Premier Alison Redford, whose Progressive Conservatives were elected in a majority government this spring, sat next to Harper at the head table.

The room applauded heartily when Redford was introduced, but not as loudly when her rival, Wildrose Party and opposition leader Danielle Smith, was asked to stand.

Ideologically, the federal conservatives are more akin to the right-wing, libertarian Wildrose than they are to Redford’s more “red Tory” progressive conservatives.

In his remarks, Harper touted his party’s record since winning its long-coveted majority government more than a year ago.
He said of 100 campaign promises, 67 had been checked off the list and that his government was well on its way to honouring the rest.

“First we say what we will do and then we go out and we do what we say,” Harper told the energetic crowd.
 
Cabbagesandking
No Party Affiliation
+3
#2  Top Rated Post
Indeed! All others must concentrate on deindustrializing: on selling off their resources to the highest bidder: on allowing the national infrastructure to collapse for lack of the money that is being diverted to Harper's friends: on having no real growth at all: on having an employment that has not recovered from the recession and is actually increasing the real unemployment and underemployment figures.

We should be less like say Germany and other Northern European nations and more like the declining economic power to the South of us. A power that has similar feed the rich policies: has similar anti - Union and anti worker policies. A power that also is seeing its industrial base declining - not so much as here where we are shipping some of it to the USA.

We should listen to the faux economist (little more than a bookkeeper, actually, in education and experience) and enjoy the dive to the bottom.
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
+3
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Harper said measures his government has taken, such as reforming immigration, expanding trade and streamlining environmental reviews, put Canada in a much stronger position than other traditional economic powerhouses like the United States, Europe and Japan.

That right there uses a whole lot of words to say absolutely nothing and it is the closest thing to a statement of substance in the OP.

Comparing Canadian immigration policy to European immigration policy just doesn't make much sense, since each country in the EU defines its own immigration policy, and that definitely is a problem for Europe as a whole. As for trade, it is certain that Germany benefited greatly from the EU, but they have maintained a trade imbalance with much of Europe since the beginning and the lack of federal equalizations and lack of national monetization makes the entire situation unsustainable.

When Canada tries to make a proper union with the USA and Mexico, then it can start telling the EU to look to it for examples. Until then, the situations are far too different for there to be any wisdom to gain and the EU can only try to move slowly towards federalism if indeed that is supposed to be the panacea.
 
petros
#4
Quote:

When Canada tries to make a proper union with the USA and Mexico.....

When? Where have you been hiding?
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
+1
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

When? Where have you been hiding?

Oh? Is there a single North American currency? Is there freedom of movement and labor over the borders? Is there a supranational government which can mandate laws that the individual nations must transpose? Is there a complete lack of tariffs across borders?

There has been talk, there has been NAFTA and the likes but there is nothing near the level of unionization in North America that exists in Europe.
 
mentalfloss
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

Oh? Is there a single North American currency? Is there freedom of movement and labor over the borders? Is there a supranational government which can mandate laws that the individual nations must transpose? Is there a complete lack of tariffs across borders?

There has been talk, there has been NAFTA and the likes but there is nothing near the level of unionization in North America that exists in Europe.

He has his tinfoil hat on two sizes too tight today.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#7
The proof is in the pudding (which doesn't look too bad so far)
 
petros
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

Oh? Is there a single North American currency? Is there freedom of movement and labor over the borders? Is there a supranational government which can mandate laws that the individual nations must transpose? Is there a complete lack of tariffs across borders?

There has been talk, there has been NAFTA and the likes but there is nothing near the level of unionization in North America that exists in Europe.

So there aren't any other currencies than the Euro? Whay do you suppose US/CDN $s are basically par?We have free movement, get yourself a permit and go work in the US or Mexico. Has a Canadian ever been sent to face a US judge for things legal in Canada? Yup. There are still tarrifs in the EU,. In NA we have integrated military, integrated police and oooodles of shared policy.

Welcome to the NAU!
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
+1
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

So there aren't any other currencies than the Euro? We have free movement, get yourself a permit and go work in the US or Mexico. Has a Canadian ever been sent to face a US judge for things legal in Canada? Yup. There are still tarrifs in the EU,. In NA we have integrated military, integrated police and oooodles of shared policy.

Welcome to the NAU!

Your post is either ignorant or you're making it up to be argumentative.

Get a permit and go work in the US? That is the proof that freedom of movement doesn't exist. The need to apply for permission to move and work is what defines a lack of freedom of movement.

There are no tariffs between European Union countries. That is the definition of the European Single Market. There is no question: no goods crossing European Union borders can be tariffed.

Your integrated military is nothing other than NATO (The A stands for Atlantic, not American), of which most European Countries are members to. To the exact same degree, the EU has an integrated military.

When a Mexican can walk across the border of Texas and not need to show any ID, immediately take up work as an entrepreneur, and sell his goods back to Mexico without a tariff, then you can compare the EU to that union. Until then, only the ignorant will think that Europe is a traditional economic power.
 
petros
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

Your post is either ignorant or you're making it up to be argumentative.

Get a permit and go work in the US? That is the proof that freedom of movement doesn't exist. The need to apply for permission to move and work is what defines a lack of freedom of movement.

There are no tariffs between European Union countries. That is the definition of the European Single Market. There is no question: no goods crossing European Union borders can be tariffed.

Your integrated military is nothing other than NATO (The A stands for Atlantic, not American), of which most European Countries are members to. To the exact same degree, the EU has an integrated military.

When a Mexican can walk across the border of Texas and not need to show any ID, immediately take up work as an entrepreneur, and sell his goods back to Mexico without a tariff, then you can compare the EU to that union. Until then, only the ignorant will think that Europe is a traditional economic power.

There are oodles of trade barriers in the EU. We have the NAALC, nothing other than criminal record and proof of a job stops you from working where you wish. Yes, a Mexican or Canadian can start a business in the US without a permit or visa and live there indefinetly. Noooo I don't mean NATO, I mean the SPP, you've heard of it haven't you?
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

There are oodles of trade barriers in the EU. We have the NAALC, nothing other than criminal record and proof of a job stops you from working where you wish. Yes, a Mexican or Canadian can start a business in the US without a permit or visa and live there indefinetly. Noooo I don't mean NATO, I mean the SPP, you've heard of it haven't you?

What don't you get about the EU's free movement? My wife needs absolutely nothing. She walks across a border into another country, with or without a job, with or without a criminal record. She doesn't need permission. She doesn't have to apply to any immigration authorities. Believe me, I am Canadian and my company would love if I didn't need a visa to work in the US (we have big contracts there) but Canadians need visas to go to the US. It might be easier than it was, but it is still a huge barrier when you compare an Italian moving to the Netherlands, which is as easy as moving to British Columbia from Nova Scotia. A Mexian/Canadian definitely needs a visa to live and start a business in the US, you can incorporate without living there, but if that is your point you are equivocating.

Name one legislative trade barrier between the Netherlands and Italy. You cannot, because they do not exist: see article 101 of the Treaty of the functioning of the European Union.

I forgot about SPP, but it certainly doesn't matter, seeing as it has nothing to do with the economic comparability of Canada to the EU.

Anyways, you really need to read up on the EU. These are just the basic features that you are failing on.
 
petros
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

Believe me, I am Canadian and my company would love if I didn't need a visa to work in the US (we have big contracts there) but Canadians need visas to go to the US.

Name one legislative trade barrier between the Netherlands and Italy. You cannot, because they do not exist: see article 101 of the Treaty of the functioning of the European Union.

I forgot about SPP, but it certainly doesn't matter, seeing as it has nothing to do with the economic comparability of Canada to the EU.

You don't need awork visa to work for a canadian company in the US. You need a visa to live there.

Just one?

Quote:

Acting on complaints submitted to it, the Commission has decided to pursue infringement proceedings against Belgium, Italy, the Netherlands, Spain and Greece on the grounds of restriction of the free movement of goods in breach of Article 30 of the EC Treaty. It has decided to issue a reasoned opinion to Belgium for failure to comply with a judgment of the European Court of Justice concerning restrictions on the importation of radiocommunications receivers. It has also decided to initiate proceedings against Italy in two cases concerning precious metals and sports nutrition products. Lastly, it has decided to deliver reasoned opinions to the Netherlands (two cases concerning vita-min-enriched foodstuffs), Spain (one case concerning the importation of motor vehicles and another case the wholesale distribution of tobacco), Greece (medicinal products) and Belgium (pesticides).

Its only a single market if the member nations are willing to fully participate.

SPP is irrelevant in integration of military, police and border agnecies and policies? Don't drop that goal post on your toes!
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
+1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

You don't need awork visa to work for a canadian company in the US. You need a visa to live there.

Just one?

Its only a single market if the member nations are willing to fully participate.

SPP is irrelevant in integration of military, police and border agnecies and policies? Don't drop that goal post on your toes!

We are talking about economics and the suggestions that the Right Honorable Stephen Harper made to the US, Europe and Japan. You are the one moving the goal posts.

I can assure you that you need a visa to work for a foreign company in the US for more days than would be required for a business meeting. But even if that were not the case, that is a very special exception. You, Petros, cannot legally decide to drive down to the US, circumvent the border control, and start looking for work.

You, Petros, cannot sell your (for a historic example) softwood lumber to the US without fear of tariffs. This is one of the good things the Conservative government is doing for instance, is eliminating as many tariffs as possible. But they will still exist until (ideally) 2015.

Free Trade in the EU is miles and away better than anything that exists in North America. It is a single market for anybody who ratifies or joins the Treaty of Maastricht and the Treaty of Rome: i.e, any country which joins the EU. I am not talking about the currency union or Schengen for this purpose.

I haven't even touched the "streamlined" environmental review. Canada's position on anything environmental is just lamentable nowadays.
 
petros
#14
Quote:

We are talking about economics and the suggestions that the Right Honorable Stephen Harper made to the US, Europe and Japan.

I was pointing out what makes us integrated and a "union" without a flag. If it was about nothing but money why did you bring up laws?
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

I was pointing out what makes us integrated and a "union" without a flag. If it was about nothing but money why did you bring up laws?

Since it is unclear to you:

Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

That right there uses a whole lot of words to say absolutely nothing and it is the closest thing to a statement of substance in the OP.

Comparing Canadian immigration policy to European immigration policy just doesn't make much sense, since each country in the EU defines its own immigration policy, and that definitely is a problem for Europe as a whole. As for trade, it is certain that Germany benefited greatly from the EU, but they have maintained a trade imbalance with much of Europe since the beginning and the lack of federal equalizations and lack of national monetization makes the entire situation unsustainable.

When Canada tries to make a proper union with the USA and Mexico, then it can start telling the EU to look to it for examples. Until then, the situations are far too different for there to be any wisdom to gain and the EU can only try to move slowly towards federalism if indeed that is supposed to be the panacea.

It is about immigration and economic policy and the fact that Harper must be pretty ignorant of reality to compare Canada to a "traditional" economic power like Europe.
 
petros
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

Since it is unclear to you:



It is about immigration and economic policy and the fact that Harper must be pretty ignorant of reality to compare Canada to a "traditional" economic power like Europe.

Do you need a common flag to slap you upside the melon before you realize Nor Am is integrated?
 
Nuggler
#17
........."" gathering of party supporters""

Pretty much says it all.

Looks like Fatty and friends are having a gay old time of it.

A detestable collection.

Not a good plan amongst them for the benefit of Canadians.
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Do you need a common flag to slap you upside the melon before you realize Nor Am is integrated?

No, as I stated, I need to be able to walk across the border without a visa and be able to take my wife with me. I need to be able to sell any good across North America without fear of tariff. I need the same money to be accepted in all locations. I need to know that I will have health care no matter where I go. I need to know that I will be treated in every way like a citizen of the country I go to.

These things do not exist in North America, but you are apparently incapable of seeing that moving from Alberta to Montana is more difficult than moving from Alberta to Saskatchewan. Ditto for selling goods.
 
Redmonton_Rebel
#19
Quote:

“New economic powers continue to rise and older ones, ones very much like our own country, continue to struggle. They’re weighed down by debts they can’t control, by entitlements you can no longer afford and growth that shows no signs of returning,” he said.

Entitlements like the right to vote?

This guy is such a zero sum game thinker that he can't see beyond some over simplified game of chicken being played between the worlds nations. This finish line he seems to want to get us across first is going to be in the middle of a social, economical and environmental wasteland if Steven Harper gets his way.
 
coldstream
#20
It strikes me as the kind of stuff Ireland or Spain were saying of their economies in the first blush of the Europeanization.. only about 5 or 6 years ago.. and before the wages of monetarism, loss sovereign control of currency and credit, de-nationalization of an industrial economy started biting with avengance.

Now they struggle with 25% unemployment rates.. 50% for their young people.. in every sense a major Depression. Harper is too stupid too realize his maniacal Globalization policies has set Canada up for the same fall.. and as with these other countries.. it will come suddenly.. and overturn an illusion of prosperity and order overnight. We have lost control of our own future.. thanks to this incompetent, tunnel visioned little petty ideologue.
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

It strikes me as the kind of stuff Ireland or Spain were saying of their economies in the first blush of the Europeanization.. only about 5 or 6 years ago.. and before the wages of monetarism, loss sovereign control of currency and credit, de-nationalization of an industrial economy started biting with avengance.

I cannot remember exactly what happened in Spain, but Ireland's problem arose when their housing bubble burst and the government increased their deficits dramatically to bail out the banks that financed the bubble. Other economies in Europe did not necessarily have the bubbles that burst in 2008, so it is not a given that it will be bad.

European problems would be ameliorated if there were Union level grants of money to struggling economies. Much like what happens with the "have-not" Canadian provinces and the Canadian Government. The free trade agreements without common taxation and reimbursement is dangerous; the trade imbalances need to be restored somehow.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+1
#22
I know little about the policies, etc...of Europe. I'm curious though not
about the failures of Greece or Spain or Ireland though, but about the
story around Germany. What is Germany doing (& what did it do
leading up to the current) to not be in the toilet like so many other
countries in Europe at this point?
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

There are oodles of trade barriers in the EU. We have the NAALC, nothing other than criminal record and proof of a job stops you from working where you wish. Yes, a Mexican or Canadian can start a business in the US without a permit or visa and live there indefinetly. Noooo I don't mean NATO, I mean the SPP, you've heard of it haven't you?

lol

http://www.visapro.com/Immigration-Articles/?a=361&z=48

http://www.breakthroughusa.co.uk/e2-business-investor/

Loads more here: https://www.google.ca/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&cp=41&gs_id=5g&xhr=t&q=US+immigrati on+laws+setting+up+a+business&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=US+immigration+laws+setting+up+a+business&gs _l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=c0 a71f853a7e4a00&biw=1903&bih=972

The SPP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_and_Prosperity_Partnership_of_North_Ameri ca

The SPP doesn't cancel out any US immigration laws.

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

You don't need awork visa to work for a canadian company in the US. You need a visa to live there.

That visa to live there still is a restriction. There's no freedom of movement across the border. Get real.
 
petros
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

lol

http://www.visapro.com/Immigration-Articles/?a=361&z=48

http://www.breakthroughusa.co.uk/e2-business-investor/

Loads more here: https://www.google.ca/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&cp=41&gs_id=5g&xhr=t&q=US+immigrati on+laws+setting+up+a+business&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=US+immigration+laws+setting+up+a+business&gs _l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=c0 a71f853a7e4a00&biw=1903&bih=972

The SPP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_and_Prosperity_Partnership_of_North_Ameri ca

The SPP doesn't cancel out any US immigration laws.

Sorry Les......

Canadian citizens usually do not need a visa as a NAFTA Professional, although a visa can be issued to qualified TN visa applicants upon request. A Canadian citizen without a TN visa can apply at a U.S. port of entry. Learn about requirements and more on the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) website and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) website . Canadian citizens can also review information regarding TN visas through U.S. Embassy Ottawa's website.

Visas for Mexican and Canadian NAFTA Professional Workers
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
+1
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

I know little about the policies, etc...of Europe. I'm curious though not
about the failures of Greece or Spain or Ireland though, but about the
story around Germany. What is Germany doing (& what did it do
leading up to the current) to not be in the toilet like so many other
countries in Europe at this point?

Trade imbalance largely. Germany has a strong manufacturing sector and exports to a lot of other countries. Their companies are also able to take consulting contracts in other nations without being excessively taxed as a foreign company. Siemens is widely despised in Greece at the moment for bribing the government into giving them excessively large contracts which they did not really deliver on.

Germany has also had a relative shortage of land, so they didn't have a housing bubble. Deutsche Bank supposedly took some rather large handouts in the US which may have allowed the German government to avoid needing to bail them out as much.
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
+1
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir View Post

We are talking about economics and the suggestions that the Right Honorable Stephen Harper made to the US, Europe and Japan. You are the one moving the goal posts.

Yep.

Quote:

I can assure you that you need a visa to work for a foreign company in the US for more days than would be required for a business meeting. But even if that were not the case, that is a very special exception. You, Petros, cannot legally decide to drive down to the US, circumvent the border control, and start looking for work.

Or even just beetle across the border and set up shop offering goods or services.

Quote:

You, Petros, cannot sell your (for a historic example) softwood lumber to the US without fear of tariffs. This is one of the good things the Conservative government is doing for instance, is eliminating as many tariffs as possible. But they will still exist until (ideally) 2015.

Free Trade in the EU is miles and away better than anything that exists in North America. It is a single market for anybody who ratifies or joins the Treaty of Maastricht and the Treaty of Rome: i.e, any country which joins the EU. I am not talking about the currency union or Schengen for this purpose.

I haven't even touched the "streamlined" environmental review. Canada's position on anything environmental is just lamentable nowadays.

And the fact that the two dollars are about par has little to do with tariffs, US immigration laws, etc. and a whole lot to do with this: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-09/canadian-dollar-falls-to-lowest-in-a-week-as-risk-demand-wanes.html
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
+1
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Sorry Les......

Canadian citizens usually do not need a visa as a NAFTA Professional, although a visa can be issued to qualified TN visa applicants upon request. A Canadian citizen without a TN visa can apply at a U.S. port of entry. Learn about requirements and more on the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) website and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) website . Canadian citizens can also review information regarding TN visas through U.S. Embassy Ottawa's website.

Visas for Mexican and Canadian NAFTA Professional Workers

Which just says that you do not need a visa before you travel to the US: you can get one at the border. You still need a visa.

Believe me, I would be in Dallas or Phoenix or Charlotte right now if it were so easy.

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

Yep.

Or even just beetle across the border and set up shop offering goods or services.

And the fact that the two dollars are about par has little to do with tariffs, US immigration laws, etc. and a whole lot to do with this: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-09/canadian-dollar-falls-to-lowest-in-a-week-as-risk-demand-wanes.html

Yeah, the exchange rates are another issue to add to the mix. I still have student loans in Canada, so I feel a bit of pain with the falling ratio of Euros to loonies even as I feel a bit of pride in the loony.
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
+1
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Sorry Les......

Canadian citizens usually do not need a visa as a NAFTA Professional, although a visa can be issued to qualified TN visa applicants upon request. A Canadian citizen without a TN visa can apply at a U.S. port of entry. Learn about requirements and more on the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) website and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) website . Canadian citizens can also review information regarding TN visas through U.S. Embassy Ottawa's website.

Visas for Mexican and Canadian NAFTA Professional Workers

Still don't get it, do you?
You still have to go through channels. You can NOT just hoof it across the border without satisfying US immigration policies.

Anyway, what I got a kick out of was Harpy's comment: "They’re weighed down by debts they can’t control, by entitlements you can no longer afford and growth that shows no signs of returning,” he said." Canadian debt is about $587 billion and still moving up at a rate of about $1000 a second. Yeah that looks like it's under control alright Stevie. Entitlements? Wanna take a look at the pension disparity between politicians and the rest of us, Stevie?
No signs of change in sight either.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

I know little about the policies, etc...of Europe. I'm curious though not
about the failures of Greece or Spain or Ireland though, but about the
story around Germany. What is Germany doing (& what did it do
leading up to the current) to not be in the toilet like so many other
countries in Europe at this point?

Just a wild stab in the dark, Ron, but I'm guessing a good work ethic had a bit to do with it.

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

Still don't get it, do you?
You still have to go through channels. You can NOT just hoof it across the border without satisfying US immigration policies.

Anyway, what I got a kick out of was Harpy's comment: "They’re weighed down by debts they can’t control, by entitlements you can no longer afford and growth that shows no signs of returning,” he said." Canadian debt is about $587 billion and still moving up at a rate of about $1000 a second. Yeah that looks like it's under control alright Stevie. Entitlements? Wanna take a look at the pension disparity between politicians and the rest of us, Stevie?
No signs of change in sight either.

That is $86,000 every day.................might be a little bit of bullsh*t there!
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

....Canadian debt is about $587 billion and still moving up at a rate of about $1000 a second.....


Yikes....so per month that's $2,620,598,400 with a population of 34 million....
so that's about $77/head/month just in the increase....