Pass the Freak Dijon Mustard Please


darkbeaver
#31
Interesting.
 
darkbeaver
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post

Prove to me that the genetically modified potato/beef is chemically different from the regular potato/beef

Then prove to me that if I eat it I will die. I'd be willing to take my chances.

So far I had no chance to take my own chances. But if I had to trust anyone I would much rather trust Monsanto than some pinko, politically correct, starvation promoting, loving liberal.

Help yourself, you can test it for the rest of us. Trust Monsanto! My my but you are an innocent child aren't you.
 
darkbeaver
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

Then post something from them. Discussions about or involving AAEM should be relegated to the spiritual/religion forum.

Dicussions involving you should be relegated to pathetic central registry.
 
Tonington
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

The yields are signifigantly lower with GM crops and the production costs are signifigantly up so whatever our bugaboos about GM tech might be, the crap scienceis still an inefficent dangerous idea that fattens only the bankers. Normal plant and animal husbandry is proven scientifically GMOs are definately not.

Not true. The yields are only marginally smaller in some cases, over all the difference is negligible. About 99% of GM crops are related to insect resistance and herbicide tolerance.

Today, over 60% of the world uses non-irrigated cropping systems. Irrigation is what gives industrialized cropping it's high yields. So, with water supplies moving in the opposite direction to human growth, how do you expect to be able to increase yields in the largest half of human agricultural production? I'm not making the case that GM does that now, I'm saying that maybe it could.

Quote:

The problem with modern agriculture is well understood to be A/ distribution and B/massive waste and C/ monopilization and consolodation serveing industrial
and banking interests.

Right. This is true regardless of whether you're talking about traditional or biotech crops.

Quote:

The green revolution is directly from the sick mind of Rockerfeller.

The green revolution gave Earth the capacity to feed almost 1 billion more people. That might be enough if developed nations could be more efficient.

Quote:

Your comment about what some people will accept is just plain funny (in a twisted sort of way) coming from someone who accepts the majesty of particle acclerators.

My comment about particle accelerators was aimed more at the loons who thought a black hole was imminent. I suppose I could use your fervent denial of what has been observed as another example of what is wrong with these issues.

Quote:

Faith based worship Tonnington, it's an invasive slippery thing, gets in where you'd least expect it.

Says the lord of proselytization for all things conspiracy here at CC.
Last edited by Tonington; May 24th, 2009 at 06:41 PM..
 
Niflmir
#35
I think if we just didn't let them patent the genes (or chemicals for that matter), the problem would solve itself.

Patenting genes strikes me like patenting the number 2. I know these people want a return on their investment, but still.
 
darkbeaver
#36
duplication
 
darkbeaver
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

Not true. The yields are only marginally smaller in some cases, over all the difference is negligible. About 99% of GM crops are related to insect resistance and herbicide tolerance.

Today, over 60% of the world uses non-irrigated cropping systems. Irrigation is what gives industrialized cropping it's high yields. So, with water supplies moving in the opposite direction to human growth, how do you expect to be able to increase yields in the largest half of human agricultural production? I'm not making the case that GM does that now, I'm saying that maybe it could.

Right. This is true regardless of whether you're talking about traditional or biotech crops.

The green revolution gave Earth the capacity to feed almost 1 billion more people. That might be enough if developed nations could be more efficient.

My comment about particle accelerators was aimed more at the loons who thought a black hole was imminent. I suppose I could use your fervent denial of what has been observed as another example of what is wrong with these issues.

Says the lord of proselytization for all things conspiracy here at CC.

Heavy irrigation and heavy fertilization and high pesticide use coupled with hugh fuel costs all to provide signifigantly less nutritious food in addition to the destruction of sustainable agriculture. Everybody that was here before the so called green revolution fed themselves Tonnington, there was nothing in it for the people it was all for money. Developement along the industrial agriculture lines is very destructive very expensive all for poor quality suspect food. The rural types were needed in the factories and so they were driven from the lands by the machine.
Efficiencies are appreciated but the efficiency sought by the shareholders and those who need to eat are two distinctly different things. And now a word about erosion poor or no crop rotation and near complete dependence on hydro-carbons.
Agriculture is far too important to leave in the hands of investors and bankers.
Hey, when herbicide won't kill it maybe you shouldn't eat it.
We the eaters must move to no-till methods and water and soil conservation in general and suspend the reliance on chemical agents. Smaller is better, of every ten households one should be a farm. These methods have been proven to produce the yields and the nutrition, just because something that looks like a beautiful tomatoe can exist in your icebox for months, intact, does not mean it is a tomatoe, they used to rot because there was life in them. You do not have to take my word for it but we are beginning to see a true green revolution finally take off, people are way past tired of junk food and plastic wrap, it is a necessity of life and everyone of us just need to dwell on that far more than we do now, when the curve for food prices goes verticle in a few months we will understand. You got brains, fix it for us will you.
 
YukonJack
#38
"Help yourself, you can test it for the rest of us. Trust Monsanto! My my but you are an innocent child aren't you."

A while back we lived next to a cattle farm. Our water came from a well.

Just for curiousity we had the water tested. The test came back indicating that both my wife and I have been dead for several years, killed by E-coli. Tested second time, same results.

Needless to say, our health suffered no ill effects from the water declared unpotable by "authorities". But just to be sure, we installed ultra-violet light on our water line.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies.

A potato is a potato is a potato. Bring it on. If you don't like it or you are scared ****less, starve!
 
darkbeaver
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post

"Help yourself, you can test it for the rest of us. Trust Monsanto! My my but you are an innocent child aren't you."

A while back we lived next to a cattle farm. Our water came from a well.

Just for curiousity we had the water tested. The test came back indicating that both my wife and I have been dead for several years, killed by E-coli. Tested second time, same results.

Needless to say, our health suffered no ill effects from the water declared unpotable by "authorities". But just to be sure, we installed ultra-violet light on our water line.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies.

A potato is a potato is a potato. Bring it on. If you don't like it or you are scared ****less, starve!

Good general health can ward off e-coli. If we could buy dogturds made to look like potatoes would you eat them? I am a swineherd and part time chicken rancher and I grows a lot of my own veggies, it's the taste Yukon, try it, tastes like old time meat, it has got flavour it is loaded with goodies not the white crap sold in the supermarkets, so I can tell you that a potatoe is not just a potatoe, all potatoes are not created equal. If you're not frightened well I suppose repeating the old line like "where fools rush in" won't sway your thinking eh. I'm only afraid of lima beans.
 
CDNBear
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post

Prove to me that the genetically modified potato/beef is chemically different from the regular potato/beef

Then prove to me that if I eat it I will die. I'd be willing to take my chances.

So far I had no chance to take my own chances. But if I had to trust anyone I would much rather trust Monsanto than some pinko, politically correct, starvation promoting, loving liberal.

Funny, I'm nothing like any of those things and you don't trust me, must be cuz I'm 'Injun'...

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

lol Some people just have no idea what the consequences of genetic engineering can do.

Looking Back at Genetic Engineering's First Deadly Disaster: L-tryptophan

Nice one LG.

Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post

A while back we lived next to a cattle farm. Our water came from a well.

Just for curiousity we had the water tested. The test came back indicating that both my wife and I have been dead for several years, killed by E-coli. Tested second time, same results.

Needless to say, our health suffered no ill effects from the water declared unpotable by "authorities". But just to be sure, we installed ultra-violet light on our water line.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies.

A potato is a potato is a potato. Bring it on. If you don't like it or you are scared ****less, starve!

lol...I Salmon and Trout fish, I tie my own roe, have for years. SCB finally got into the mix and joined us. Got sick as a dog. Salmonella poisoning. Funny how me and the boys didn't get sick, Doc said it had to do with our bodies developing an immunity to it because we've been consuming it in small doses for so long.

Funny how the human body works.

Funny how even when the evidence is put in front of some people, they're to stupid to catch on...
 
Tonington
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Heavy irrigation and heavy fertilization and high pesticide use coupled with hugh fuel costs all to provide signifigantly less nutritious food in addition to the destruction of sustainable agriculture. Everybody that was here before the so called green revolution fed themselves Tonnington, there was nothing in it for the people it was all for money. Developement along the industrial agriculture lines is very destructive very expensive all for poor quality suspect food. The rural types were needed in the factories and so they were driven from the lands by the machine.

Significantly less nutritious ehh? Can you back that one up?

I know very well that humans fed themselves before this beaver, that's not the point. The point is, how do we continue to feed ourselves when we deplete the organic matter in the soil? Are you going to take back land by force from people, and redistribute it as you see fit? So we can all feed ourselves? Who will clear all the land?

Quote:

Efficiencies are appreciated but the efficiency sought by the shareholders and those who need to eat are two distinctly different things. And now a word about erosion poor or no crop rotation and near complete dependence on hydro-carbons.

Ahh, so there are so many other problems, that the only solution now is to turn back time? Biotech must be evil? Rhetoric is a poor staple to feed to humans Beve.

Quote:

Agriculture is far too important to leave in the hands of investors and bankers.

If you have some land, nobody is stopping you from using it.

Quote:

Hey, when herbicide won't kill it maybe you shouldn't eat it.

Newsflash, these genes aren't the result of computer programmers tinkering with nucleic acids. They are copied from what is found in nature. Plants produce secondary metabolites which aren't required for primary metabolism, only to aid with ecosystem interactions. These include natural herbicides and pesticides.

Quote:

Smaller is better, of every ten households one should be a farm.

Dop you have any suggestions that don't require a dictator?

Quote:

You got brains, fix it for us will you.

I'll get right on that.
 
darkbeaver
#42
No I don't have any suggestions not requiring a dictatorial system. Something has to dictate the course of human events, why not necessity instead of money.
 
L Gilbert
#43
Anyway, you people that don't mind GEFs can eat it till you start glowing in the dark, lose your eyesight and start dwelling at the bottoms of the oceans. I don't trust the pharmaceutical companies and whoever else that engineers foodstuffs to place my and my family's health over their bank accounts nor do I trust them to never make booboos.
Last edited by L Gilbert; May 27th, 2009 at 02:02 AM..
 
L Gilbert
#44
http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/geff4.html

GM foods becoming an ecological disaster, warns institute

Quote:

Last September, hungry villagers stole 500 bags of maize from a UN storeroom in Zambia. For the villagers, the loot was fast food. For the authorities, a big problem. The maize was genetically modified (GM) food aid from the USA, awaiting governmental approval. A few weeks later, Zambia became the first developing country to officially reject GM food aid.

Gripped by a severe food crisis plus the HIV/AIDS epidemic, when 2.3 million people needed food aid, President Mwanawasa affirmed he would not feed “this poison” to his people. “It was immoral to bring GM maize into an independent sovereign country without our approval, immoral to store it in areas of deep hunger,” fumes Bernadette Lubozhya, a Zambian agronomist.

Many humanitarians disagree. “This is not the right time to debate GM food when people are starving,” says the UN’s Andrew Timpson. Lesotho, Mozambique, Swaziland and Zimbabwe accepted GM maize if it was milled before or upon arrival, so it could not be planted. Only Malawi allowed in unmilled GM maize.

Critics worry about the impact on biodiversity and health. Through cross-pollination, GM traits could contaminate local non-GM crops and, through the feed chain, livestock. This could jeopardize valuable agricultural exports to the EU, which bans GM food. According to the UN’s special rapporteur for the right to food: “GMOs could pose a danger to the human organism and public health in the medium and long term.”

- Red Cross Red Crescent - World Disasters Report 2003 - Chapter 3
 
Tonington
#45
Human beings have been modifying crops for thousands of years. Look up the history of some of your favourite crops, from poisonous grasses and toxic seeds to table tops today.

For all the rhetoric on this issue, nobody has any kind of workable solutions yet to this scenario: rising energy costs, continued human population growth, finite soil resources, and looming environmental threats.

I'm not advocating molecular genetics as the solution to all our ills, but I'm not going to discard potential solutions because there have been failures and unintended consequences. That happens whether or not we discover a gene to make fungus that grows rapidly on rust, and tastes like good chantrelles.
 
CDNBear
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

Human beings have been modifying crops for thousands of years. Look up the history of some of your favourite crops, from poisonous grasses and toxic seeds to table tops today.

For all the rhetoric on this issue, nobody has any kind of workable solutions yet to this scenario: rising energy costs, continued human population growth, finite soil resources, and looming environmental threats.

And I can't answer those questions either Ton, but I'm not saying we ban the search and research, I'm saying we need safe guards.

Quote:

I'm not advocating molecular genetics as the solution to all our ills, but I'm not going to discard potential solutions because there have been failures and unintended consequences. That happens whether or not we discover a gene to make fungus that grows rapidly on rust, and tastes like good chantrelles.

lol...We need better safe guards Ton, but the only thing that seems to be of any concern to the powers that be is, the all mighty dollar.
 
petros
#47
Quote:

I know very well that humans fed themselves before this beaver, that's not the point. The point is, how do we continue to feed ourselves when we deplete the organic matter in the soil? Are you going to take back land by force from people, and redistribute it as you see fit? So we can all feed ourselves? Who will clear all the land?

This troublesome issue is being solved little by little everyday as the 3rd World War continues.

How long have we been at war with the 3rd world now?

Since the dawn of time?
 
L Gilbert
#48
That's right. People have been hybridising and whanot for thousands of years. I can't think of one story where cross pollinating has resulted in something that results in the deaths of people, though.
We're not against GEFs, just avoiding them until they're safer, like nuked foods. We're perfectly content with food that hasn't been genetically messed with.
 
Tonington
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

lol Some people just have no idea what the consequences of genetic engineering can do.

Looking Back at Genetic Engineering's First Deadly Disaster: L-tryptophan

Well, maybe that's what really happened, or maybe people who were taking this supplement didn't need to be taking it. Maybe they took so much, that their body could no longer degrade histamines.

It's likely not as certain as the folks at the Organic Consumers Organization would have you believe.
 
L Gilbert
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

....We need better safe guards Ton, but the only thing that seems to be of any concern to the powers that be is, the all mighty dollar.

Yup. I don't even suspect their motives for messing with food. I KNOW their bottom line is money and not the health and welfare of people. That makes their activities and products suspect.
 
petros
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

That's right. People have been hybridising and whanot for thousands of years. I can't think of one story where cross pollinating has resulted in something that results in the deaths of people, though.
We're not against GEFs, just avoiding them until they're safer, like nuked foods. We're perfectly content with food that hasn't been genetically messed with.

How do you pollenate a tomato with a flounder?
 
petros
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

How do you pollenate a tomato with a flounder?

Answer: With a shotgun shell.
 
L Gilbert
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

Well, maybe that's what really happened, or maybe people who were taking this supplement didn't need to be taking it. Maybe they took so much, that their body could no longer degrade histamines.

It's likely not as certain as the folks at the Organic Consumers Organization would have you believe.

Exactly, but the issue makes me wary and our health isn't something we are willing to experiment with.
 
L Gilbert
#54
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

How do you pollenate a tomato with a flounder?

lmao that's pretty good
 
CDNBear
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

Exactly, but the issue makes me wary and our health isn't something we are willing to experiment with.

Bingo!!!
 
petros
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

lmao that's pretty good

That is the truth. They literally blast fish genes lathered on powdered gold and shot gun blast them into tomato genes.

You think that has been happening for thousands of years?
 
Tonington
#57
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

Exactly, but the issue makes me wary and our health isn't something we are willing to experiment with.

There's nothing wrong with wary. Scapegoating is not the same thing as being wary. Fear mongering is not the same thing as being precautious. If you eat anything you didn't grow your self, you're taking a risk that at least ten hands between you and the producer had your health in mind. Again, this is not something limited to the crossroads of molecular genetics and agriculture.

The article this thread is based on, fear mongering. Your article that I responded to, scapegoating. I'm all about growing your own food, but unfortunately agriculture isn't high on everyones list, until you convince them that they're producing tomatoes with flat fish testes or something to that effect...
 
petros
#58
GMO crops have brand new amino acids and complex carbs never put to the test of the human immune system.

Why is that an issue? Guess what else are amino acids and complex carbs?

Viruses.
 
Tonington
#59
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

You think that has been happening for thousands of years?

No, it was an unsuccessful project. They did this for a short time in the hopes that fruit and vegetables could be made to survive frost conditions. It didn't work, so nobody eats and fruit or vegetables that includes a gene that expresses as flounder antifreeze proteins.
 
petros
#60
Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

No, it was an unsuccessful project. They did this for a short time in the hopes that fruit and vegetables could be made to survive frost conditions. It didn't work, so nobody eats and fruit or vegetables that includes a gene that expresses as flounder antifreeze proteins.

So what is it that did work in Monsnato Round Up ready crops? Was it another canola on canola or corn on corn with pollen? Why was wheat banned from being GMO? Why is there a seed vault on Svaldgard Island?
 

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