Ontario was right to eliminate electric car subsidies


petros
+5
#1
Many people mistakenly believe that electric vehicles, including Tesla models, run on electricity. That’s partly true — power stored in the batteries makes the wheels go around. But while electricity (in part) powers the cars, government subsidies get them built. But in Ontario, Premier Doug Ford has cut the subsidies (up to $14,000 per vehicle) that drive electric car purchases.

In response, Tesla, led by CEO Elon Musk, sued Ontario, claiming a case of “unjustified targeting.” This month, the Ontario Superior Court agreed, basically saying the government singled out Tesla for harm.

But Ford should stick to his guns — electric cars have been an expensive boondoggle for decades, using taxpayer dollars to subsidize wealthy buyers so they can signal environmental virtue, while doing virtually nothing for the environment.

The first commercial-scale electric vehicle appeared late last century in California, thanks in part to a state mandate aimed at pollution control. But only buyers who made more than $100,000 U.S. per year were eligible to lease the vehicles (they were not sold). Buyers also had to install $2,500 charging stations in their garages (meaning they were also wealthy enough to own detached homes — in Los Angeles).

All this for a car with a top speed of 120 km/h and a range of about 80 miles on an overnight charge. Eligible buyers received up to $8,400 worth of rebates and tax credits, partly funded by middle-class taxpayers and renters who couldn’t buy the car.

Times have changed, of course, and technology has improved. The Tesla Model S has a range of more than 300 miles and can do 1 to 100 km/h in 2.7 seconds. But the affordability issue hasn’t changed much, with the Tesla Model S P100D selling for a cool $176,000.

Tesla has promised accelerated deliveries of lower-priced Model 3 vehicles, which start at “only” $56,000. Meanwhile, Ontario taxpayers have been paying to get electric cars on the road.

In 2016, according to the CBC, Ontario paid nearly $800,000 in rebates for electric cars with “six-figure price tags” including $170,000 to subsidize the sale of 20 Tesla Roadster convertibles that retailed for $138,000.

To be fair, subsidies to other high-end electric cars, such as the BMW i8, are equally egregious, though I have not read that BMW plans to sue the government. And there remains little or no environmental benefit if the power generation for electric cars isn’t greenhouse gas emission-free (and in most places, it’s not).

Finally, a study for the Montreal Economic Institute pegged the cost of emission reductions from electric vehicles at an estimated $523 per tonne of averted GHGs — an absurd number, when carbon offsets in North America were selling for about $18 per tonne.

Premier Ford should stand his ground and stop paying for rich people’s expensive electric cars. That Musk sued to preserve his subsidies is prima facie evidence that he knows there’s no market for his cars at full cost.

Kenneth Green is an analyst at the Fraser Institute.
 
Mowich
+7
#2  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Many people mistakenly believe that electric vehicles, including Tesla models, run on electricity. That’s partly true — power stored in the batteries makes the wheels go around. But while electricity (in part) powers the cars, government subsidies get them built. But in Ontario, Premier Doug Ford has cut the subsidies (up to $14,000 per vehicle) that drive electric car purchases.

In response, Tesla, led by CEO Elon Musk, sued Ontario, claiming a case of “unjustified targeting.” This month, the Ontario Superior Court agreed, basically saying the government singled out Tesla for harm.

But Ford should stick to his guns — electric cars have been an expensive boondoggle for decades, using taxpayer dollars to subsidize wealthy buyers so they can signal environmental virtue, while doing virtually nothing for the environment.

The first commercial-scale electric vehicle appeared late last century in California, thanks in part to a state mandate aimed at pollution control. But only buyers who made more than $100,000 U.S. per year were eligible to lease the vehicles (they were not sold). Buyers also had to install $2,500 charging stations in their garages (meaning they were also wealthy enough to own detached homes — in Los Angeles).

All this for a car with a top speed of 120 km/h and a range of about 80 miles on an overnight charge. Eligible buyers received up to $8,400 worth of rebates and tax credits, partly funded by middle-class taxpayers and renters who couldn’t buy the car.

Times have changed, of course, and technology has improved. The Tesla Model S has a range of more than 300 miles and can do 1 to 100 km/h in 2.7 seconds. But the affordability issue hasn’t changed much, with the Tesla Model S P100D selling for a cool $176,000.

Tesla has promised accelerated deliveries of lower-priced Model 3 vehicles, which start at “only” $56,000. Meanwhile, Ontario taxpayers have been paying to get electric cars on the road.

In 2016, according to the CBC, Ontario paid nearly $800,000 in rebates for electric cars with “six-figure price tags” including $170,000 to subsidize the sale of 20 Tesla Roadster convertibles that retailed for $138,000.

To be fair, subsidies to other high-end electric cars, such as the BMW i8, are equally egregious, though I have not read that BMW plans to sue the government. And there remains little or no environmental benefit if the power generation for electric cars isn’t greenhouse gas emission-free (and in most places, it’s not).

Finally, a study for the Montreal Economic Institute pegged the cost of emission reductions from electric vehicles at an estimated $523 per tonne of averted GHGs — an absurd number, when carbon offsets in North America were selling for about $18 per tonne.

Premier Ford should stand his ground and stop paying for rich people’s expensive electric cars. That Musk sued to preserve his subsidies is prima facie evidence that he knows there’s no market for his cars at full cost.

Kenneth Green is an analyst at the Fraser Institute.

"That Musk sued to preserve his subsidies is prima facie evidence that he knows there’s no market for his cars at full cost."

Bingo!
 
petros
+5
#3
Tesla is the most subsidized company in US history beating out the Union Pacific Transcontinental
 
captain morgan
+4
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

"That Musk sued to preserve his subsidies is prima facie evidence that he knows there’s no market for his cars at full cost."

Bingo!


Just goes to show that your run of the mill ecotard doesn't really believe in this global warming nonsense.
 
Hoid
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Tesla is the most subsidized company in US history beating out the Union Pacific Transcontinental

how is that possible after the 2008 bailouts?

try to use some common sense.


re "That Musk sued to preserve his subsidies is prima facie evidence that he knows there’s no market for his cars at full cost."

he sued because he knew the government was in the wrong.
 
Twin_Moose
+3
#6
Wrong about stopping his subsidy?
 
taxslave
+3
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

how is that possible after the 2008 bailouts?
try to use some common sense.
re "That Musk sued to preserve his subsidies is prima facie evidence that he knows there’s no market for his cars at full cost."
he sued because he knew the government was in the wrong.

How is the government wrong to eliminate subsidies to rich people?
 
Ron in Regina
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Tesla is the most subsidized company in US history beating out the Union Pacific Transcontinental



Leaving the Green thing alone, purely as a sports car,
the acceleration of a Tesla is freak'n trippy....


A friend of ours recently sold off his Nissan GT-R and
bought a Tesla, and this from a guy who say's he won't
buy a personal vehicle with less than 550hp.
Last edited by Ron in Regina; 3 weeks ago at 09:59 PM..Reason: spacing
 
Hoid
#9
the way the subsidy was unilaterally ended with no regard to the rights of the people who had already agreed to purchase one was plain wrong.


It took the judge 5 seconds to determine that.

more stupid shit from a stupid shit.
 
petros
+1
#10
You only have peak performance with a fully charged battery. It's all downhill from there.
 
Hoid
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

You only have peak performance with a fully charged battery. It's all downhill from there.

you really need to update your info.
 
petros
+2
#12
You need to update everything you think you know.

You are infamous for thinking concept products are readily available.
 
Hoid
#13
Modern batteries do not decline in performance.

ffs even my Dyson vacuum runs full tilt and then simply switches to off when it is depleted - as is the typical case with ni-cad and post ni-cad batteries.
 
petros
+1
#14
Ohhh yes they do. I've posted articles you've never read that leave you standing there waving your dick in the wind.

You really should have read them.
 
Hoid
#15
all my power tools?

same thing. full performance and then they switch off - zero fade.
 
petros
+1
#16
You think the dick you are waving in the wind is a power tool?

Until capacitor tech is perfected all batteries diminish steadily.
 
taxslave
+2
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

the way the subsidy was unilaterally ended with no regard to the rights of the people who had already agreed to purchase one was plain wrong.
It took the judge 5 seconds to determine that.
more stupid shit from a stupid shit.

Like you the judge is wrong.Does the judge own a Tesla? since he is in the right income bracket.
 
captain morgan
+2
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post



Leaving the Green thing alone, purely as a sports car,
the acceleration of a Tesla is freak'n trippy....


A friend of ours recently sold off his Nissan GT-R and
bought a Tesla, and this from a guy who say's he won't
buy a personal vehicle with less than 550hp.


They have big acceleration and tons of power, but like Petros mentioned, they have no legs for any real distances
 
Hoid
#19
WASHINGTON, D.C., (April 16, 2015) – On average, Americans drive 29.2 miles per day, making two trips with an average total duration of 46 minutes.
 
Twin_Moose
+1
#20
How old are your stats? How long does a 30 mile trip take in an urban setting?
 
taxslave
+2
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

WASHINGTON, D.C., (April 16, 2015) – On average, Americans drive 29.2 miles per day, making two trips with an average total duration of 46 minutes.

So then about half of them might make it to work and back without running out of electrons. The rest and all industry require fossil fuels.
 
Hoid
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

How old are your stats? How long does a 30 mile trip take in an urban setting?

how bad are your eyes?
 
Hoid
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

So then about half of them might make it to work and back without running out of electrons. The rest and all industry require fossil fuels.

Tesla model 3 comes in 350km and 500 km ranges

so they will all be able to go back and forth from work to home a number of times before recharging
 
captain morgan
+2
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Tesla model 3 comes in 350km and 500 km ranges

so they will all be able to go back and forth from work to home a number of times before recharging


Only under ideal conditions on a flat road with no passengers or any cargo.

The power and range fall through the floor once the temperature drops below zero, let alone passengers, climbing in elevation or the real luxuries like using the radio, AC or heater
 
Twin_Moose
+2
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

how bad are your eyes?

Good enough to see in my mirror were the Tesla battery died
 
Hoid
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

WASHINGTON, D.C., (April 16, 2015) – On average, Americans drive 29.2 miles per day, making two trips with an average total duration of 46 minutes.

this has a date hidden in the first line.
 
taxslave
+3
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Tesla model 3 comes in 350km and 500 km ranges
so they will all be able to go back and forth from work to home a number of times before recharging

That's nice if you are in the 90% tax bracket. Working people cannot afford Tesla. Working people mostly can't afford a Bolt. The rich that can afford Tesla don't need subsidies.
 
Hoid
#28
that will all change with time.
 
pgs
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Tesla model 3 comes in 350km and 500 km ranges

so they will all be able to go back and forth from work to home a number of times before recharging

I see lots of Tesla’s in Vancouver , I never see them on the Coq however .
 
pgs
+1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

I see lots of Tesla’s in Vancouver , I never see them on the Coq however .

I also see lots of Rolls Royce and Maserati in Vancouver , and on the Coq .