MP Maxime Bernier quits 'morally corrupt' Conservatives, plans to start new party


White_Unifier
+1
#1
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bern...tive-1.4795894

I think Bernier has potential. Most people in most riding suffer from supply-management.

On the matter of immigration, Bernier never said he was anti-immigration per se. I think he goes too far on the culture front, but as long as he can limit himself to the economics of immigration, making it easy for people to come to Canada to work but not to collect social assistance, he might even get some leftists on his side.

I don't agree with everything Bernier has said, but I do like some of his ideas that only he among politicians is speaking out on.
 
mentalfloss
+1
#2
This is great for the Liberals.
 
White_Unifier
+1
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss View Post

This is great for the Liberals.

Depends. I could agree with letting foreigners work in Canada visa-free for example, but not to collect social assistance except for genuine refugees.

I oppose the corporate welfare of the dairy cartels.

Those are not so ideological left right matters.
 
JLM
+2
#4
I've been thinking before he does that, maybe he should sign up for an English course somewhere, so we rubes in the hinterland can understand what he is saying!
 
Johnnny
+1
#5
The Conservatives have imploded. All they had to do was be quiet and ride out the next year.
 
White_Unifier
+2
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss View Post

This is great for the Liberals.

You seem to care more that the Liberals win no matter what. I care more about policy.
 
petros
+5
#7  Top Rated Post
Start his own party...that's funny.
 
justlooking
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I've been thinking before he does that, maybe he should sign up for an English course somewhere, so we rubes in the hinterland can understand what he is saying!


Better to get Scheer a French course.
For a guy born in Ottawa, that guy's French is atrocious.
Bernier could clean up Quebec just with this.
 
Johnnny
+1
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by justlooking View Post

Better to get Scheer a French course.
For a guy born in Ottawa, that guy's French is atrocious.
Bernier could clean up Quebec just with this.

You cant expect him to have good French just because he is from Ottawa. I'm from Sudbury and my French is almost non existent.
 
White_Unifier
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Start his own party...that's funny.

I do find him a little too ambitious with this. He might want to start off as an independent.

Quote: Originally Posted by Johnnny View Post

You cant expect him to have good French just because he is from Ottawa. I'm from Sudbury and my French is almost non existent.

I'm from Ottawa and my Klingon is non-existent too.

https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...erniers-speech

Good speech. I do worry about what he means by multiculturalism, but I'm willing to give him a chance on it.
 
petros
+3
#11
First he needs to keep his seat.
 
White_Unifier
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

First he needs to keep his seat.

Do you support corporate welfare? He could probably attract even some principled socialists with a stance like that.
 
Decapoda
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss View Post

This is great for the Liberals.

Might be the first time I've agreed with you.
 
Twin_Moose
+2
#14
Tory leader lashes out at maverick MP

HALIFAX - Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer is accusing Quebec MP and former leadership rival Maxime Bernier of putting his own personal ambitions ahead of the chance to make Canada a better place.
As the Conservative policy convention gets underway in Halifax, Scheer is depicting Bernier's dramatic decision to leave the Conservative party as a calculated, power-hungry move.
Scheer says Bernier has chosen to "abandon our fight" and the best alternative to the Liberal government of Justin Trudeau.
He says Bernier never once came to him with ideas about the issues he cited today in quitting the party — evidence, Scheer says, that Bernier has been planning his exit for a long time.
Scheer says the party will continue to champion balanced budgets, low taxes, secure borders, lawful immigration, freer trade and a stronger Canadian identity.
Bernier made the bombshell announcement during a news conference on Parliament Hill, calling the party "intellectually and morally corrupt" and beyond reform.
Bernier, who narrowly lost the Tory leadership to Scheer 15 months ago, says he feels the party has abandoned its true ideals by refusing to end corporate subsidies or abolish the supply management system for poultry and dairy products.
Bernier's decision to leave the party follows months of turmoil — much of it fomented on Twitter — between himself, Scheer and many Conservative MPs who felt he was jeopardizing their chances in the next election.

Just pissed he lost the leadership bid and throwing a tantrum, glad he didn't win, I was a supporter until this move

Stephen Harper Calls Out Maxime Bernier As A Sore Loser

TORONTO — Stephen Harper asked Conservatives on Thursday to hold steady and support leader Andrew Scheer after Maxime Bernier announced his decision to quit the party.
The former prime minister suggested Bernier is a sore loser after narrowly losing last year's leadership race to Scheer.
Bernier held a news conference in Ottawa where he shared his intention to lead a new federal party to be launched in the coming weeks. He did not join his former caucus members in Halifax for the first day of the party's policy convention.

"I prefer to do politics differently and to speak about what I believe," he said, slagging his former party as one that has become too "intellectually and morally corrupt" to be reformed.
The Conservative caucus allowed little room for debate on issues such as supply management and the government's "inefficient" changes to the equalization payment formula, he explained.
Bernier became increasingly aware in the last year that he had become an outlier in his own party.
"What is the goal to be in politics if you don't believe in anything," he said.
"I am now convinced that what we will get if Andrew Scheer becomes prime minister is just a more moderate version of the disastrous Trudeau government."
The Quebec MP has been the talk of the party in recent weeks after making a series of tweets accusing that the Liberal government's embrace of "extreme multiculturalism" endangers Canada's identity and intrinsic values.
Tory leader says he's 'very optimistic' about party's future
Speaking from Halifax, Scheer told reporters that Bernier's motivations are clear in retrospect. He accused his former leadership rival of choosing to help Trudeau in the upcoming election by prioritizing his ambitions.
"He has decided that he is more important than his Conservative colleagues and indeed the Conservative party," he said.
Despite the bombshell news that dropped just as 3,000 Conservative delegates began to arrive in Halifax to debate policy, Scheer said he's "very optimistic" about the party's future.
Bernier, the MP for Beauce, will hold onto his seat in the House of Commons and run as a candidate in next year's election as a candidate for his new pan-Canadian party.
 
petros
+2
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

Do you support corporate welfare? He could probably attract even some principled socialists with a stance like that.

Not for keeping control of power like supporting Bombardier to pander for Libetal votes in Quebec.
 
Twin_Moose
+1
#16
Isn't the payouts helping Airbus now?
 
White_Unifier
+2
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

Tory leader lashes out at maverick MP

HALIFAX - Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer is accusing Quebec MP and former leadership rival Maxime Bernier of putting his own personal ambitions ahead of the chance to make Canada a better place.
As the Conservative policy convention gets underway in Halifax, Scheer is depicting Bernier's dramatic decision to leave the Conservative party as a calculated, power-hungry move.
Scheer says Bernier has chosen to "abandon our fight" and the best alternative to the Liberal government of Justin Trudeau.
He says Bernier never once came to him with ideas about the issues he cited today in quitting the party — evidence, Scheer says, that Bernier has been planning his exit for a long time.
Scheer says the party will continue to champion balanced budgets, low taxes, secure borders, lawful immigration, freer trade and a stronger Canadian identity.
Bernier made the bombshell announcement during a news conference on Parliament Hill, calling the party "intellectually and morally corrupt" and beyond reform.
Bernier, who narrowly lost the Tory leadership to Scheer 15 months ago, says he feels the party has abandoned its true ideals by refusing to end corporate subsidies or abolish the supply management system for poultry and dairy products.
Bernier's decision to leave the party follows months of turmoil — much of it fomented on Twitter — between himself, Scheer and many Conservative MPs who felt he was jeopardizing their chances in the next election.

Just pissed he lost the leadership bid and throwing a tantrum, glad he didn't win, I was a supporter until this move

To be honest, I don't get the impression Bernier makes for good leadership material. A good leader knows how to follow too, and Bernier certainly can't do that. I could have seen him withdraw his membership from the party, sit as an independent, and promote his ideas that way. But to just come out and say he's forming a new party raises questions about his humility as a party leader.

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Not for keeping control of power like supporting Bombardier to pander for Libetal votes in Quebec.

And what about other corporate recipients of your tax dollars?
 
JLM
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Johnnny View Post

You cant expect him to have good French just because he is from Ottawa. I'm from Sudbury and my French is almost non existent.

Now, THAT makes sense!
 
Hoid
#19
Hopefully Bernier will form a true alt right party.

Nothing would be funnier than that.
 
White_Unifier
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Hopefully Bernier will form a true alt right party.

Nothing would be funnier than that.

I don't know. Bernier clearly opposes immigration in its present form. Should he turn out to be truly anti-immigration, I'd find it very difficult to support him, but I do support his getting rid of the dairy cartel and free trade. That's why i'm divided concerning him. Why couldn't the other parties abandon the dairy cartel?
 
Hoid
#21
Bernier is a total racist.

This is the same old problem with right wingers in this country - the racists in Quebec simply cannot get along with the racists in the rest of Canada. They hate each other too much.
 
White_Unifier
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Bernier is a total racist.

This is the same old problem with right wingers in this country - the racists in Quebec simply cannot get along with the racists in the rest of Canada. They hate each other too much.

I don't know if Bernier is a racist; but if he is, then that's what frustrates the hell out of me. Trudeau, Scheer, and maybe Sign are corporate shills handing out money to Bombardier, protecting the dairy lobby at the expense of Canadians, etc., and then the only who's prepared to stand up to that might be a racist.

So, if Bernier's a racist, and some non-racists feel attracted to some of his more rational policies, then it would seem that the best way to neutralize him would be for other parties to adopt his more rational policies while leaving the racism behind... if they really care about countering racism that is.
 
Mowich
+3
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

First he needs to keep his seat.


I don't think that will be a problem in his riding, pete. This really pisses me off. This close to an election and once again the party is looking like a bunch of dolts that can't handle controversy with an ounce of grace. I don't lay this mess all at Max's feet either.
 
WLDB
+2
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss View Post

This is great for the Liberals.

Only if Bernier can pull enough voters his way if he manages to form a party. I think he has the potential to do so, but he could also wind up fading into obscurity and lose his own seat next year. I don’t really agree with him on much but he probably would have been a stronger and more effective leader than Scheer has been.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I've been thinking before he does that, maybe he should sign up for an English course somewhere, so we rubes in the hinterland can understand what he is saying!

Hey, Chrétien got elected three times without that being a problem.

Quote: Originally Posted by Johnnny View Post

You cant expect him to have good French just because he is from Ottawa. I'm from Sudbury and my French is almost non existent.

Yeah but you’re not a politician trying to win voters in Quebec.

Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

Do you support corporate welfare? He could probably attract even some principled socialists with a stance like that.

I generally vote NDP but totally agree with him on corporate welfare and supply management.

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Not for keeping control of power like supporting Bombardier to pander for Libetal votes in Quebec.

Harper gave them tons of money when he was in power too. Welfare for Bombardier seems to be one of the few things Liberals and Conservatives support, though only when they themselves are in power. When it’s the other party, then they’re suddenly against it.
 
White_Unifier
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

I don't think that will be a problem in his riding, pete. This really pisses me off. This close to an election and once again the party is looking like a bunch of dolts that can't handle controversy with an ounce of grace. I don't lay this mess all at Max's feet either.

In the news, his party association has broken off from the Conservative Party to back Max too. It would appear that he has a very strong chance of winning the next election, but just be prepared to sit as an independent backbencher in Parliament.

That said, especially if the CPC comes out one or two seats short of a majority next election, Bernier and other independent backbenchers like him could become powerful members in a majority conservative coalition.
 
Bar Sinister
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

Depends. I could agree with letting foreigners work in Canada visa-free for example, but not to collect social assistance except for genuine refugees.

How do we determine whether or not they are refugees until they have have had a chance to have their cases heard? Canada is relatively civilized and is not going to let them starve while they wait.
 
White_Unifier
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

How do we determine whether or not they are refugees until they have have had a chance to have their cases heard? Canada is relatively civilized and is not going to let them starve while they wait.

I agree with you. I was speaking in general terms and in that sense, there might not be much we can do about the refugees crossing the border now since they might all be genuine for all we know.
That said, we need to counterbalance refugees with working immigrants to expand the tax base to support those refugees. In other words, the more refugees come to Canada, the easier we need to make it for non-refugees to come to Canada too. That just makes economic sense. And we don't want an expensive bureaucracy for that either. It would seem to me that the most economically efficient solution to that would be to allow foreign nationals to visit, study, work, and do business in Canada visa-free so as to expand the tax base we need to support refugees.
 
Bar Sinister
+1
#28
This looks a lot like the usual "Protect Quebec's Culture At All Costs." The rest of Canada seems to have a much more lenient view of multiculturalism. For the most part it is only the Quebecois who seem to get really upset about modes of dress and the infusion of new customs into their culture.
 
White_Unifier
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

This looks a lot like the usual "Protect Quebec's Culture At All Costs." The rest of Canada seems to have a much more lenient view of multiculturalism. For the most part it is only the Quebecois who seem to get really upset about modes of dress and the infusion of new customs into their culture.

I agree, and that's something that really irritates me about Bernier. I'm all for a common language for practical reasons, and for people respecting the law and supporting themselves. But beyond that, who's the government to dictate culture? The last time it did that, it committed acts that led to a TRC to declare those acts as cultural genocide, and rightfully so.
 
Mowich
+1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB View Post

Only if Bernier can pull enough voters his way if he manages to form a party. I think he has the potential to do so, but he could also wind up fading into obscurity and lose his own seat next year. I don’t really agree with him on much but he probably would have been a stronger and more effective leader than Scheer has been.

Hey, Chrétien got elected three times without that being a problem.


I find Max almost as insufferably arrogant as I did Jean at times.