Harper - Secrecy & Hypocrisy


Socrates the Greek
#1
Socrates argues that the best ruler must always be someone who knows how to rule, someone who understands ruling as a craft. But since crafts of any sort invariably aim to produce some external goal (Gk. teloV [télos]), good practitioners of each craft always act for the sake of that goal, never in their own interest alone. Thus, good rulers, like good shepherds, must try to do what is best for those who have been entrusted to them, rather than seeking their own welfare. (Republic 342e)


Harper campained in open Government. Open is what the Canadian voter voted for. He told the Candian people give the Conservatives a chance to clean Ottawa from the Liberal dictatorship, and Harper is serpacing in dictatorship colors the Liberals. Black and white do as I say not as I do. Hepocracy all over.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#2
Socrates the Greek , I would agree that the conduct of the Right Honourable Stephen Harper , P.C. , M.P. , the Member for Calgary Southwest and the Prime Minister of Canada has been, at this point, lacking transparency, in terms of his relationship with the media, and in terms of his decisions to no longer announce visits by heads of state, premiers, or other persons. However, seeing as how it is only mere weeks into his mandate, it may be appropriate to give him some time to adjust to how things should be done, and how they are expected to be done.

Canadians are watching, though.
 
Socrates the Greek
#3
Good day Paradox and they are watching in deed. The only problem I see in the horizon is that Democracy will be compromised under Harpers guard. Looking at some early sings we see that Democracy is not in the Harper card hand, and the people are witnessing a bluff which will blow up on Harper as he moves closer to Election Day. They say you can fool some people some time, but you can not fool all people all the time. The rest we go on watching the same movie one more time from the Conservatives. Hey no question the Liberals messed up at the end of their 12 years in power. Let us not forget that the economy is in a better position then it has ever been here in Canada. Once a while a change helps only for the better of this great country. To progress not to digress is the order of the day. To shut the door as a Government and tell the Canadian voter you speak when you have been spoken too, is far from a democratic society it doesn’t matter how new the Government of the day happened to be. Respect for the citizen must be an irrevocable commitment.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Socrates the Greek

Good day Paradox and they are watching in deed. The only problem I see in the horizon is that Democracy will be compromised under Harpers guard. Looking at some early sings we see that Democracy is not in the Harper card hand, and the people are witnessing a bluff which will blow up on Harper as he moves closer to Election Day. They say you can fool some people some time, but you can not fool all people all the time. The rest we go on watching the same movie one more time from the Conservatives. Hey no question the Liberals messed up at the end of their 12 years in power. Let us not forget that the economy is in a better position then it has ever been here in Canada. Once a while a change helps only for the better of this great country. To progress not to digress is the order of the day. To shut the door as a Government and tell the Canadian voter you speak when you have been spoken too, is far from a democratic society it doesn’t matter how new the Government of the day happened to be. Respect for the citizen must be an irrevocable commitment.



This is a joke, right?

Exactly when did the media become the arbiters of Canadian democracy?

The Liberals were, and are a corrupt, arrogant,useless bunch. That may change with the leadership contest, but I doubt it.

They most certainly don't deserve pwer for awhile at least.

I think Liberals looking for a mote in Harper's eye had best check out the pulp log in their own.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#5
Good day to you too, Socrates the Greek .

However, at this point, I would not yet suggest that the conduct of Mr. Harper has affected the democratic process in the institutions of our Parliament of Canada (except, perhaps, refusing to bring about a vote on the mission in the Islamic Republic in Afghanistan at the request of the New Democratic Party of Canada — but there were strong arguments on both sides of the spectrum both in favour of and opposed to having a vote on the issue).

I would however, suggest that Mr. Harper should keep the interests of citizens (in terms of continuing to represent ourselves as a democratic nation) at heart, during this Thirty-ninth Parliament of Canada . I opposed the decision to decide not to record a vote in the House of Commons on the Speech From the Throne (as a rule, I don't care for motions that "deem" any substantive measure to be adopted; I believe the previous Government of Canada had done something like this in a previous session too, though, so both parties are scorned by me on that particular issue).

Hey, Colpy ! How are you this morning (or afternoon, depending on your timezone, I suppose)? In terms of the media, no, I don't think that they represent any sort of "institution" of democracy, by themselves — however, I think that it would be a reasonable assessment to say that the media provides much-needed information to the people of Canada, so that appropriate decisions can be rendered whenever we happen to be dropped into the Fortieth General Election . They are perhaps an "instrument" of¹ democracy, rather than an institution (in my opinion) — however, I would suggest that they are, in fact, an important part of the process; the Parliament of Canada should be open to everyone, and I would assert that we, by proxy, can be there through the media.

There's my two cents in this debate for now.

Revision : (1) Corrected a typing error.
 
Socrates the Greek
#6
The right to scrutiny is a right that belongs to the citizen. The media is the massager for the citizen, and any Government who especially on a minority position tells the media never mind reporting to the citizen, we will talk to the citizen our self’s, well let me tell you my great Canadian Conservative pal, Democracy has been compromised and election day will be the settlement day for the Gestapo style bozos who think that they will fool the voter to squander their vote on the empty campaign promise of open Government.
 
BitWhys
#7
Riel took the fort, then he seized the press. I'm sure he at least appeared to think THAT was in the public interest as well.
 
Jay
#8
You would think there was a gag order on the Press or something.
 
BitWhys
#9
nah

just Cabinet
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#10
Harpocracy,Harpocratic, Harpocon, Harpington, Harporization, Harperlarious, Harpasterous, Harpolong Cassidy and the Sunburned Kid.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#11
Harpocracy,Harpocratic, Harpocon, Harpington, Harporization, Harperlarious, Harpasterous, Harpolong Cassidy and the Sunburned Kid, Adolf Harper.
 
Socrates the Greek
#12
Harpoeconomics, more deficits on top of more deficits and some more deficits. Glue glue and more glue. I am running out of solvent to clean the glue. Unemployment is at its lowest point in Canada for the past 12 years thanks to the Liberals and no thanks to the Cons. 20Billion in the glue under Lying Brian Mulroney, and Harper wants to spend money on the military which he doesn’t have. More glue coming up on Harpoeconomics.
 
Jay
#13
I'm running out of towels trying to clean up the BS.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Socrates the Greek

The right to scrutiny is a right that belongs to the citizen. The media is the massager for the citizen, and any Government who especially on a minority position tells the media never mind reporting to the citizen, we will talk to the citizen our self’s, well let me tell you my great Canadian Conservative pal, Democracy has been compromised and election day will be the settlement day for the Gestapo style bozos who think that they will fool the voter to squander their vote on the empty campaign promise of open Government.

When, exactly, did Harper order the media to stop reporting?

Is not Question Period televised?

FIVE, if this were the United States, where there is no opposition opportunity to hold the gov't's feet to the fire a' la Question Period, I would agree that limiting access to members was a questionable assault on the public's right to know. Here, however, questioning the gov't is not primarily a role of media, but of the Opposition, and that is widely televised.

Harper is simply trying to keep his government on message. No news has been censored, freedom of speech is not threatened.

Hi, BTW

The following is not for you Five, as you are one of the few Liberals willing to "wait and see" when it comes to Harper.

The others seem to behave like a cross between a toddler whose ice cream has just been snatched, and a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

Excuse my obsession, but I get a huge kick out of Liberal supporters claiming Harper is undemocratic.

Remember the Liberal attempts to insert news CENSORS into the CBC after the APEC fiasco? Funny, I don't remember strong protests from Liberals against a REAL threat to freedom of the press.

Jean Chretien......and the Liberal Party of Canada......now there's a threat to democracy.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Socrates the Greek

Harpoeconomics, more deficits on top of more deficits and some more deficits. Glue glue and more glue. I am running out of solvent to clean the glue. Unemployment is at its lowest point in Canada for the past 12 years thanks to the Liberals and no thanks to the Cons. 20Billion in the glue under Lying Brian Mulroney, and Harper wants to spend money on the military which he doesn’t have. More glue coming up on Harpoeconomics.

SPARE ME!

At least stick to reality.

There will be NO deficits under Harper. NONE!

And the gov't is swimming in money.

Now I know you guys would rather spend it ensuring latte-drinking, SUV driving, rich, urbanite soccer moms get free day care, (and thus still vote Liberal), but I happen to think the military is important. As do most Canadians.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Harpocracy,Harpocratic, Harpocon, Harpington, Harporization, Harperlarious, Harpasterous, Harpolong Cassidy and the Sunburned Kid.

Now here is the most intelligent argument against Harper I have yet read.
 
BitWhys
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

SPARE ME!

At least stick to reality.

There will be NO deficits under Harper. NONE!;...

so you've found that $29.1B in promises the fiscal plan doesn't account for?

cool!!!

tell me all about it. I'm all ears.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#18
You cons are using an American script when your critical of views left of yours, the language you use is republican and fundemental christian so it's not hard to tell whose agenda you're working for. Ya'll got Neocon Harpomania.
 
I think not
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Harpocracy,Harpocratic, Harpocon, Harpington, Harporization, Harperlarious, Harpasterous, Harpolong Cassidy and the Sunburned Kid, Adolf Harper.



DB has a sense of humor, I think.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#20
Oil at $71.35 a barrel today, Harper in a news conferance today said he thought the Iran talk had no bearing on that price, every analyst I heard today said that concern about Iran was directly responsible for that price. Now Harper was either lying or he's to stupid to be in power. Which reason do you prefer?
 
elevennevele
#21
All I remember was Harper whining whining whining when it came to accountability. You gotta love those catch phases like "culture of entitlement" when you are talking about the other guy.

So many Harper apologists. The writing is on the wall. He is hypocritically doing what he whined and whined and whined and campaigned against. Moreover, he takes "lack of transparency" to a new extreme!

You said it was all about cleaning up political garbage but now you support this type of political garbage. All of you Harper apologists are hypocrites.

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Opinion/...f-1510185.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

http://www.thehilltimes.ca/html/inde...7/gallery/&c=1

http://www.ottawasun.com/News/Nation...35119-sun.html
 
elevennevele
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Oil at $71.35 a barrel today, Harper in a news conferance today said he thought the Iran talk had no bearing on that price, every analyst I heard today said that concern about Iran was directly responsible for that price. Now Harper was either lying or he's to stupid to be in power. Which reason do you prefer?

Hey, but now that he's PM, his word IS the WORD. So whatever he says, we all have to fall in line like a United States Conservative and put our brains at the doorstep.

Gotta love what the pseudo conservatives did to that country.
 
Socrates the Greek
#23
Eleven Eleven that sums it up. Harper thinks he is the most popular PM Canada has every had or seen, the man is suffering from a condition called, as long as I think I am before the rest of the Country than I must be before the Country and I tell the country to do as I say and not as I do. Election Day will be here soon, I did not vote for Harper triviality, the man is a clown with out his make up on; he looks like the clown that got fired from MacDonald’s fast food because he had a phoney smile on. He just looks so bad on the measurements for charisma.
 
Toro
#24
I think that its pretty safe to say that, so far, Stephen Harper has been the greatest Prime Minister Canada has ever seen!
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#25
When has has done nothing more than accept crossing members, make appointments to the Senate, restrict the right of the media to ask the Government whatever questions they wish, and adopt an "our-way-or-the-highway" attitude?

It didn't make Mr. Martin a great Prime Minister, and it won't work for Harper.
 
mabudon
#26
I found it pretty funny over the weekend when the mainstream media was (or is that were??) trumpeting some survey/poll, saying that 53% of Canadians polled (and every time the blurb came up it sorta flopped between "all Canadians" and "of Canadians that didn't vote Conservative" which is odd cos that little switch made it sound like a different "fact" every time) thought Harper was actually doing a GOOD JOB... I just found it odd, as I pay pretty close attention to a lot of news and dislike Harper as I do, I can't really figure out exactly WHAT he's done that anybody could be too impressed with... (not a slam, I just really don't know what the hell these statistical people are talking about exactly)

and people all gripe about the lack of transparency- you should hold your tongues, cos Harper has mad the government of Canada TOTALLY transparent... when ya try to look at it, you just see a sort of shimmery mirage-like outline where the government is supposed to be...
I'd say a totally secret, invisible government is about as "transparent" as you can get (and who knows, maybe he will claim that by transparent he in fact DID mean invisible)

And that was sarcasm BTW
 
Socrates the Greek
#27
Good morning Paradox Patience is a virtue, the next election is around the corner, as soon as the bickering starts in the House of Commons Liberal approval in the house will not come cheap. The Liberals soon will have a leader while the Cons are looking for ways and are wishing to get a majority next time around.

Here is some food for thought. Just today the Cons announced that they will offer a formal apology to all the Chinese Canadians who had been wrongfully charged the infamous head tax. The catch her is Paradox that, (money talks and garbage walk), and I am sure you know what I mean. The manipulation is clear here from the Cons, the formal apology is to set the Asian Canadian voter thinking Neo Con, and the hope Harper is looking at, is that the financial compensation to the Chinese Immigrant Canadians of the early 19th century will be a vote for the full term. To day he is saying to open with just an apology, and to seal the deal during election he will put out the cash. His 5 election promises did not include the Chinese Immigrant and today he is making the announcement for simple political gain. He is dangling the carrot on the stick to prepare vote enhancement. Is Harper sincere?
 
Socrates the Greek
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

When has has done nothing more than accept crossing members, make appointments to the Senate, restrict the right of the media to ask the Government whatever questions they wish, and adopt an "our-way-or-the-highway" attitude?

It didn't make Mr. Martin a great Prime Minister, and it won't work for Harper.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good morning Paradox Patience is a virtue, the next election is around the corner, as soon as the bickering starts in the House of Commons Liberal approval in the house will not come cheap. The Liberals soon will have a leader while the Cons are looking for ways and are wishing to get a majority next time around.

Here is some food for thought. Just today the Cons announced that they will offer a formal apology to all the Chinese Canadians who had been wrongfully charged the infamous head tax. The catch her is Paradox that, (money talks and garbage walk), and I am sure you know what I mean. The manipulation is clear here from the Cons, the formal apology is to set the Asian Canadian voter thinking Neo Con, and the hope Harper is looking at, is that the financial compensation to the Chinese Immigrant Canadians of the early 19th century will be a vote for the full term. To day he is saying to open with just an apology, and to seal the deal during election he will put out the cash. His 5 election promises did not include the Chinese Immigrant and today he is making the announcement for simple political gain. He is dangling the carrot on the stick to prepare vote enhancement. Is Harper sincere?
 
Socrates the Greek
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

When has has done nothing more than accept crossing members, make appointments to the Senate, restrict the right of the media to ask the Government whatever questions they wish, and adopt an "our-way-or-the-highway" attitude?

It didn't make Mr. Martin a great Prime Minister, and it won't work for Harper.

Good morning Paradox Patience is a virtue, the next election is around the corner, as soon as the bickering starts in the House of Commons Liberal approval in the house will not come cheap. The Liberals soon will have a leader while the Cons are looking for ways and are wishing to get a majority next time around.

Here is some food for thought. Just today the Cons announced that they will offer a formal apology to all the Chinese Canadians who had been wrongfully charged the infamous head tax. The catch her is Paradox that, (money talks and garbage walk), and I am sure you know what I mean. The manipulation is clear here from the Cons, the formal apology is to set the Asian Canadian voter thinking Neo Con, and the hope Harper is looking at, is that the financial compensation to the Chinese Immigrant Canadians of the early 19th century will be a vote for the full term. To day he is saying to open with just an apology, and to seal the deal during election he will put out the cash. His 5 election promises did not include the Chinese Immigrant and today he is making the announcement for simple political gain. He is dangling the carrot on the stick to prepare vote enhancement. Is Harper sincere?
 
Jay
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by mabudon

I can't really figure out exactly WHAT he's done that anybody could be too impressed with... (not a slam, I just really don't know what the hell these statistical people are talking about exactly)

I think that trip to Afghanistan was a big deal to a lot of Canadians, especially older ones. It shows leadership.
 

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