IDF forces are terrorists and murderers and nothing more


Jersay
#1
The IDF as well as hezbollah are just f-ing murderers. The IDF is the only force to have targetted Canadians, they murdered U.N peacekeepers as well as innocent Lebanese civilians daily.

So they are murderers, and that is all. Just scum of the Earth.

As well as Hezbollah, who by the way have killed more soldiers than Israel has hezbollah militants.

IDF has a record of killing civilians, killing POWs, attacking Allies, murdering U.N peacekeepers. Its a shame.

And Harper is going to loose on it.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by Jersay

The IDF as well as hezbollah are just f-ing murderers. The IDF is the only force to have targetted Canadians, they murdered U.N peacekeepers as well as innocent Lebanese civilians daily.

So they are murderers, and that is all. Just scum of the Earth.

As well as Hezbollah, who by the way have killed more soldiers than Israel has hezbollah militants.

IDF has a record of killing civilians, killing POWs, attacking Allies, murdering U.N peacekeepers. Its a shame.

And Harper is going to loose on it.

Welcome back Jersay!

Unfortunately, your entire post is crap.

Self-defense is not murder.

The death of innocents in war is not murder unless they were specifically targeted.

I doubt Hezbollah has killed more Israeli soldiers than vice-versa. Israeli troops are exceptionally well-armed, well trained, and experienced. They have proven that numerous times over the years. I WOULD bet that a lot of those so-called "innocent" civilians were armed Hezbollah fighters, up to the moment their dead arse hit the ground.

If Hezbollah is killing a lot of Israeli soldiers, it would be because Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties. I mean, they have the firepower, they could atomize any town harbouring Hezbollah militants, without risking ground troops. They do not.

AND, you have your beloved UN to blame for the death of a Canadian peacekeeper. Wht on earth were they not withdrawn when Israel invaded? THERE WAS NO PEACE TO KEEP. Un incompetence, because that bunch of bureaucratic morons in NY couldn't care LESS if troopers in the field die.

Remember the Belgians in Rwanda?
 
BitWhys
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

...Self-defense is not murder...

the problem being, of course, that's exactly what "the other side" says too...

Quote:

On Monday, a Hamas spokesman said the attack, which also killed the bomber, was a justifiable act of "self-defense" in response to Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories.

 
thomaska
#4
And heres Hezbollah's squeaky clean record, please feel free to justify each one...I'm sure someone will..


1982: Israel invades Lebanon to drive out the PLO’s terrorist army, which had frequently attacked Israel from its informal "state-within-a-state" in southern Lebanon. Hezbollah, a Shiite group inspired by the teachings and revolution of Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini, is created with the assistance of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps. The group is called Hezbollah–or "party of God"– after initially taking responsibility for attacks under the name "Islamic Jihad." (Not to be confused with the Palestinian terror organization Islamic Jihad.)

July 19, 1982: The president of the American University in Beirut, Davis S. Dodge, is kidnapped. Hezbollah is believed to be behind this and most of the other 30 Westerners kidnapped over the next ten years.

April 18, 1983: Hezbollah attacks the U.S. embassy in Beirut with a car bomb, killing 63 people, 17 of whom were American citizens.

Oct. 23, 1983: The group attacks U.S. Marine barracks with a truck bomb, killing 241 American military personnel stationed in Beirut as part of a peace-keeping force. A separate attack against the French military compound in Beirut kills 58.

Sept. 20, 1984: The group attacks the U.S. embassy annex in Beirut with a car bomb, killing 2 Americans and 22 others.

March 16, 1984: William F. Buckley, a CIA operative working at the U.S. embassy in Beirut, is kidnapped and later murdered.

April 12, 1984: Hezbollah attacks a restaurant near the U.S. Air Force Base in Torrejon, Spain. The bombing kills eighteen U.S. servicemen and injures 83 people.

Dec. 4, 1984: Hezbollah terrorists hijack a Kuwait Airlines plane. Four passengers are murdered, including two Americans.

Feb. 16, 1985: Hezbollah publicizes its manifesto. It notes that the group's struggle will continue until Israel is destroyed and rejects any cease-fire or peace treaty with Israel. The document also attacks the U.S. and France.

June 14, 1985: Hezbollah terrorists hijack TWA flight 847. The hijackers severely beat Passenger Robert Stethem, a U.S. Navy diver, before killing him and dumping his body onto the tarmac at the Beirut airport. Other passengers are held as hostages before being released on June 30.

Dec. 31, 1986: Under the alias Organization of the Oppressed on Earth, Hezbollah announces it had kidnapped and murdered three Lebanese Jews. The organization previously had taken responsibility for killing four other Jews since 1984.

Feb. 17, 1988: The group kidnaps Col. William Higgins, a U.S. Marine serving with a United Nations truce monitoring group in Lebanon, and later murders him.

Oct. 22, 1989: Members of the dissolved Lebanese parliament ratify the Taif Agreement. Although the agreement calls for the "disbanding of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias," Hezbollah remains active.

Feb. 16, 1992: Sayyad Hassan Nasrallah takes over Hezbollah after Israel kills the group’s leader, Abbas Musawi.

March 17, 1992: With the help of Iranian intelligence, Hezbollah bombs the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires, killing 29 and injuring over 200.

July 18, 1994: Hezbollah bombs the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires–again with Iranian help–killing 86 and injuring over 200.


Nov. 28, 1995: Hezbollah bombards towns in northern Israel with volleys of Katyusha rockets in one of the group's numerous attacks on Israeli civilians.

March 30, 1996: Hezbollah fires 28 Katyusha rockets into northern Israeli towns. A week later, the group fires 16 rockets, injuring 36 Israelis. Israel responds with a major offensive, known as the "Grapes of Wrath" operation, to stop Hezbollah rocket fire.

Aug. 19, 1997: Hezbollah opens fire on northern Israel with dozens of rockets in one of the group's numerous attacks on Israeli civilians.

October 1997: The United States lists Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.

Dec. 28, 1998: Hezbollah opens fire on northern Israel with dozens of rockets in one of the group's numerous attacks on Israeli civilians.
May 17, 1999: Hezbollah opens fire on northern Israel with dozens of rockets in one of the group's numerous attacks on Israeli civilians.



June 24, 1999: Hezbollah opens fire on northern Israel, killing 2.

May 23, 2000: Israel withdraws all troops from Lebanon after 18 years patrolling the "security zone," a strip of land in the south of the country. The security zone was set up to prevent attacks on northern Israel.

June 2000: United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan certifies Israel’s withdrawal from Lebanon. Shortly thereafter, the U.N. Security Council endorses Annan’s report. Hezbollah nonetheless alleges Israel occupies Lebanon, claiming the small Shebba Farms area Israel captured from Syria during the 1967 war as Lebanese territory.

Oct. 7, 2000: Hezbollah attacks an Israel military post and raids Israel, kidnapping three Israeli soldiers. The soldiers are later assumed dead. In mid-October, Hezbollah leader Nasrallah announces the group has also kidnapped an Israeli businessman. In 2004, Israel frees over 400 Arab prisoners in exchange for the business man and the bodies of the three soldiers.


March 1, 2001: The British government adds Hezbollah’s "military wing" to its list of outlawed terrorist organizations.

April 9, 2002: Hezbollah launches Katyushas into northern Israeli town. This assault comes amidst almost daily Hezbollah attacks against Israeli troops in Shebba farms.

Dec. 11, 2002: Canada lists Hezbollah as a terrorist organization. Huh?

Aug. 10, 2003: Hezbollah shells kills 16-year-old Israeli boy, wound others.

June 5, 2003: Australia lists Hezbollah’s "military wing" as a terrorist organization.

Sept. 2, 2004: United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559 calls for "the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias," a reference to Hezbollah.


December 2004: Both the United States and France ban Hezbollah’s satellite television network, Al Manar. A U.S. State Department spokesman notes the channel "preaches violence and hatred."

March 10, 2005: The European Parliament overwhelmingly passes a resolution stating: "Parliament considers that clear evidence exists of terrorist activities by Hezbollah. The (EU) Council should take all necessary steps to curtail them." The European Union nonetheless refrains from placing the group on its list of terror organizations.

July 12, 2006: Hezbollah attacks Israel with Katyushas, crosses the border and kidnaps two Israeli soldiers. Three Israeli soldiers are killed in the initial attack. Five more soldiers are killed as Israel launches operation to rescue the soldiers and push Hezbollah from its border. Hezbollah launches rockets into towns across northern Israel
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Jersay

The IDF as well as hezbollah are just f-ing murderers. The IDF is the only force to have targetted Canadians, they murdered U.N peacekeepers as well as innocent Lebanese civilians daily.

The IDF targetted Canadians? You are implying this was intentional then. I have yet to hear about that. Have any proof to back up your claims?
 
wallyj
#6
A hezbolla soldier dressed as a civilian, hiding amongst civilians is not a civilian,he is a terrorist. It sickens me to hear the chatter of the peaceniks who condemn Israel for defending themselves. We all know civilian deaths and children being killed are not a good thing but war like surgery is never pleasant. But sometimes it is necessary to save lives. I am amazed how the Liberals and NDP walk around with thier lofty moral attitude,noses high in the air,when they don't have a backbone. Possibly the hot air between thier ears keeps it up there.
 
BitWhys
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by wallyj

...lofty moral attitude...

at least you realize its a higher moral standard
 
#juan
No Party Affiliation
#8
thomaska

Would you also agree, that in between all those attacks that you have recorded for us, there is an Israeli attack or retaliation. Does the side that gets the last attack in win? Or does this bloody thing go on forever?
 
Colpy
Conservative
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan

thomaska

Would you also agree, that in between all those attacks that you have recorded for us, there is an Israeli attack or retaliation. Does the side that gets the last attack in win? Or does this bloody thing go on forever?

Yes,there undoubtedly were Israeli attacks and retaliation..........

Here's the difference: Israel attacks to prevent attacks upon themselves. As I've said before, if all Hezbollah's weapons disappeared, there would be instant peace.

If all Israel's weapons disappeared, there would be one hell of a lot of dead Jews in the new Islamist state of Palestine...........

It will end when Hezbollah ceases to be a power in south Lebanon.....not before. The only way to achieve that is to degrade Hezbollah's military abilities enough so the Lebanese Army can exert sovereignty there.

That is EXACTLY what the Israelis are doing......I hope they succeed before international pressure puts an end to this.
 
JonB2004
#10
Who the hell is IDF?
 
#juan
No Party Affiliation
#11
Quote:

..I hope they succeed before international pressure puts an end to this.

Oh!, why would international pressure put an end to it? Would it be because the Israeli attacks are far out of proportion with any cause I can see, and that Lebanon is being bombed back to the stone age with no redress or no way to satisfy Israel's demands. The Lebanese people are the victims and they have no voice. "International pressure" had better hurry or there won't be anything left but a pile of stones.
 
I think not
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by JonB2004

Who the hell is IDF?

Israeli Defense Forces
 
leb
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by JonB2004

Who the hell is IDF?

Israeli Destruction Forces
 
Caleb-Dain Matton
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by thomaska

And heres Hezbollah's squeaky clean record, please feel free to justify each one...I'm sure someone will..


1982: Israel invades Lebanon to drive out the PLO’s terrorist army, which had frequently attacked Israel from its informal "state-within-a-state" in southern Lebanon. Hezbollah, a Shiite group inspired by the teachings and revolution of Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini, is created with the assistance of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps. The group is called Hezbollah–or "party of God"– after initially taking responsibility for attacks under the name "Islamic Jihad." (Not to be confused with the Palestinian terror organization Islamic Jihad.)

July 19, 1982: The president of the American University in Beirut, Davis S. Dodge, is kidnapped. Hezbollah is believed to be behind this and most of the other 30 Westerners kidnapped over the next ten years.

April 18, 1983: Hezbollah attacks the U.S. embassy in Beirut with a car bomb, killing 63 people, 17 of whom were American citizens.

Oct. 23, 1983: The group attacks U.S. Marine barracks with a truck bomb, killing 241 American military personnel stationed in Beirut as part of a peace-keeping force. A separate attack against the French military compound in Beirut kills 58.

Sept. 20, 1984: The group attacks the U.S. embassy annex in Beirut with a car bomb, killing 2 Americans and 22 others.

March 16, 1984: William F. Buckley, a CIA operative working at the U.S. embassy in Beirut, is kidnapped and later murdered.

April 12, 1984: Hezbollah attacks a restaurant near the U.S. Air Force Base in Torrejon, Spain. The bombing kills eighteen U.S. servicemen and injures 83 people.

Dec. 4, 1984: Hezbollah terrorists hijack a Kuwait Airlines plane. Four passengers are murdered, including two Americans.

Feb. 16, 1985: Hezbollah publicizes its manifesto. It notes that the group's struggle will continue until Israel is destroyed and rejects any cease-fire or peace treaty with Israel. The document also attacks the U.S. and France.

June 14, 1985: Hezbollah terrorists hijack TWA flight 847. The hijackers severely beat Passenger Robert Stethem, a U.S. Navy diver, before killing him and dumping his body onto the tarmac at the Beirut airport. Other passengers are held as hostages before being released on June 30.

Dec. 31, 1986: Under the alias Organization of the Oppressed on Earth, Hezbollah announces it had kidnapped and murdered three Lebanese Jews. The organization previously had taken responsibility for killing four other Jews since 1984.

Feb. 17, 1988: The group kidnaps Col. William Higgins, a U.S. Marine serving with a United Nations truce monitoring group in Lebanon, and later murders him.

Oct. 22, 1989: Members of the dissolved Lebanese parliament ratify the Taif Agreement. Although the agreement calls for the "disbanding of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias," Hezbollah remains active.

Feb. 16, 1992: Sayyad Hassan Nasrallah takes over Hezbollah after Israel kills the group’s leader, Abbas Musawi.

March 17, 1992: With the help of Iranian intelligence, Hezbollah bombs the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires, killing 29 and injuring over 200.

July 18, 1994: Hezbollah bombs the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires–again with Iranian help–killing 86 and injuring over 200.


Nov. 28, 1995: Hezbollah bombards towns in northern Israel with volleys of Katyusha rockets in one of the group's numerous attacks on Israeli civilians.

March 30, 1996: Hezbollah fires 28 Katyusha rockets into northern Israeli towns. A week later, the group fires 16 rockets, injuring 36 Israelis. Israel responds with a major offensive, known as the "Grapes of Wrath" operation, to stop Hezbollah rocket fire.

Aug. 19, 1997: Hezbollah opens fire on northern Israel with dozens of rockets in one of the group's numerous attacks on Israeli civilians.

October 1997: The United States lists Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.

Dec. 28, 1998: Hezbollah opens fire on northern Israel with dozens of rockets in one of the group's numerous attacks on Israeli civilians.
May 17, 1999: Hezbollah opens fire on northern Israel with dozens of rockets in one of the group's numerous attacks on Israeli civilians.



June 24, 1999: Hezbollah opens fire on northern Israel, killing 2.

May 23, 2000: Israel withdraws all troops from Lebanon after 18 years patrolling the "security zone," a strip of land in the south of the country. The security zone was set up to prevent attacks on northern Israel.

June 2000: United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan certifies Israel’s withdrawal from Lebanon. Shortly thereafter, the U.N. Security Council endorses Annan’s report. Hezbollah nonetheless alleges Israel occupies Lebanon, claiming the small Shebba Farms area Israel captured from Syria during the 1967 war as Lebanese territory.

Oct. 7, 2000: Hezbollah attacks an Israel military post and raids Israel, kidnapping three Israeli soldiers. The soldiers are later assumed dead. In mid-October, Hezbollah leader Nasrallah announces the group has also kidnapped an Israeli businessman. In 2004, Israel frees over 400 Arab prisoners in exchange for the business man and the bodies of the three soldiers.


March 1, 2001: The British government adds Hezbollah’s "military wing" to its list of outlawed terrorist organizations.

April 9, 2002: Hezbollah launches Katyushas into northern Israeli town. This assault comes amidst almost daily Hezbollah attacks against Israeli troops in Shebba farms.

Dec. 11, 2002: Canada lists Hezbollah as a terrorist organization. Huh?

Aug. 10, 2003: Hezbollah shells kills 16-year-old Israeli boy, wound others.

June 5, 2003: Australia lists Hezbollah’s "military wing" as a terrorist organization.

Sept. 2, 2004: United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559 calls for "the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias," a reference to Hezbollah.


December 2004: Both the United States and France ban Hezbollah’s satellite television network, Al Manar. A U.S. State Department spokesman notes the channel "preaches violence and hatred."

March 10, 2005: The European Parliament overwhelmingly passes a resolution stating: "Parliament considers that clear evidence exists of terrorist activities by Hezbollah. The (EU) Council should take all necessary steps to curtail them." The European Union nonetheless refrains from placing the group on its list of terror organizations.

July 12, 2006: Hezbollah attacks Israel with Katyushas, crosses the border and kidnaps two Israeli soldiers. Three Israeli soldiers are killed in the initial attack. Five more soldiers are killed as Israel launches operation to rescue the soldiers and push Hezbollah from its border. Hezbollah launches rockets into towns across northern Israel

Don't forget to fill in between the lines of your beloved U.S. atrocities!
 
JonB2004
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Jersay

The IDF as well as hezbollah are just f-ing murderers. The IDF is the only force to have targetted Canadians, they murdered U.N peacekeepers as well as innocent Lebanese civilians daily.

So they are murderers, and that is all. Just scum of the Earth.

As well as Hezbollah, who by the way have killed more soldiers than Israel has hezbollah militants.

IDF has a record of killing civilians, killing POWs, attacking Allies, murdering U.N peacekeepers. Its a shame.

And Harper is going to loose on it.


The IDF is not a bunch of murderers, Jersay. The IDF accidentilly killed those Canadians. It wasn't their fault. It's Hezbollah's fault because Israel wouldn't be bombing Lebanon if Hezbollah wouldn't of kidnapped their soldiers. Israel is not scum. And what is this record you speak of? I have never heard of the IDF killing civilians, POWs, allies, or peacekeepers on purpose. The innocent Lebanese are getting killed because the Hezbollah militants are too chicken to come out and fight. Don't be blaming Israel. This situation isn't their fault.

I support Harper's mission on the Middle East situation. And don't you go off suggesting that Harper is supporting Israel because GWB is, because that's not the case. Harper is his own independent person and he is not being controlled by GWB.
 
BitWhys
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

...I hope they succeed before international pressure puts an end to this.

so what do you figure? Will "success" in Lebanon be like Afghanistan where democracy is what our troops promise farmers as they get their year's earnings plowed under to protect the morphine oligarchy or just the utter murderous anarchy of Iraq where they're selling their oil fields by the pound to keep the IMF off their case? or is this the first time in history this whole "route the resistence" thing actually works, in which case I'd love to hear your explanation what makes Lebanon so different.

Because Lebanon already has a legitimate government? We'll see about that. With all the help they've recieved from it, by the time the IDF is finished with the south I'm not so sure its people are going to be too interested in what Beruit has to say once the dust settles.
 
elevennevele
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by JonB2004

The IDF is not a bunch of murderers, Jersay. The IDF accidentilly killed those Canadians. It wasn't their fault. It's Hezbollah's fault because Israel wouldn't be bombing Lebanon if Hezbollah wouldn't of kidnapped their soldiers. Israel is not scum. And what is this record you speak of? I have never heard of the IDF killing civilians, POWs, allies, or peacekeepers on purpose. The innocent Lebanese are getting killed because the Hezbollah militants are too chicken to come out and fight. Don't be blaming Israel. This situation isn't their fault.


It seems it's never their fault.

Quote:

"The Insane Brutality of the State of Israel"

Atrocities in the Promised Land

By KATHLEEN CHRISTISON
former CIA analyst

(middle part of article)

The pattern played out in Nazi Germany as it sought to maintain a mythical Aryan superiority. It is playing out now in Israel. “This society no longer recognizes any boundaries, geographical or moral,” wrote Israeli intellectual and anti-Zionist activist Michel Warschawski in his 2004 book Towards an Open Tomb: The Crisis of Israeli Society. Israel knows no limits and is lashing out as it finds that its attempt to beat the Palestinians into submission and swallow Palestine whole is being thwarted by a resilient, dignified Palestinian people who refuse to submit quietly and give up resisting Israel’s arrogance.

We in the United States have become inured to tragedy inflicted by Israel, and we easily fall for the spin that automatically, by some trick of the imagination, converts Israeli atrocities to examples of how Israel is victimized. But a military establishment that drops a 500-pound bomb on a residential apartment building in the middle of the night and kills 14 sleeping civilians, as happened in Gaza four years ago, is not a military that operates by civilized rules.

A military establishment that drops a 500-pound bomb on a house in the middle of the night and kills a man and his wife and seven of their children, as happened in Gaza four days ago, is not the military of a moral country.

A society that can brush off as unimportant an army officer’s brutal murder of a 13-year-old girl on the claim that she threatened soldiers at a military post -- one of nearly 700 Palestinian children murdered by Israelis since the intifada began -- is not a society with a conscience.

A government that imprisons a 15-year-old girl -- one of several hundred children in Israeli detention -- for the crime of pushing and running away from a male soldier trying to do a body search as she entered a mosque is not a government with any moral bearings. (This story, not the kind that ever appears in the U.S. media, was reported in the London Sunday Times. The girl was shot three times as she ran away and was convicted to 18 months in prison after she came out of a coma.)

 
Logic 7
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

...Self-defense is not murder...

the problem being, of course, that's exactly what "the other side" says too...

Quote:

On Monday, a Hamas spokesman said the attack, which also killed the bomber, was a justifiable act of "self-defense" in response to Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories.

It would be surprising if this guys colpy understand this fact.
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Logic 7

Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

...Self-defense is not murder...

the problem being, of course, that's exactly what "the other side" says too...

Quote:

On Monday, a Hamas spokesman said the attack, which also killed the bomber, was a justifiable act of "self-defense" in response to Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories.

It would be surprising if this guys colpy understand this fact.

What fact Aeon? That you have unconditional support for terrorists?
 
Colpy
Conservative
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Logic 7

Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

...Self-defense is not murder...

the problem being, of course, that's exactly what "the other side" says too...

Quote:

On Monday, a Hamas spokesman said the attack, which also killed the bomber, was a justifiable act of "self-defense" in response to Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories.

It would be surprising if this guys colpy understand this fact.

Don't be silly.

The difference is this.....The Palestinians can not claim self-defense because if they stooped fighting they would be left in peace.

If Israel stopped fighting, the Arabs and Persians would kill them all........down to the last newborn.
 
#juan
No Party Affiliation
#21
Colpy

You just have to read something other than the Tel Aviv Times.

Quote:

Don't be silly.

The difference is this.....The Palestinians can not claim self-defense because if they stooped fighting they would be left in peace.

If Israel stopped fighting, the Arabs and Persians would kill them all........down to the last newborn.

Nobody is suggesting that Israel give up their military. It would just be nice if they stopped treating Palestine as if it was all Israel. The current Palestinian leaders have agreed to Israel's right to exist. The best thing that could happen is if Israel took their tanks and guns back to the borders they were given, and stayed the hell out of the Palestinian's lives.
 
thomaska
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Caleb-Dain Matton

Quote: Originally Posted by thomaska

And heres Hezbollah's squeaky clean record, please feel free to justify each one...I'm sure someone will..


1982: Israel invades Lebanon to drive out the PLO’s terrorist army, which had frequently attacked Israel from its informal "state-within-a-state" in southern Lebanon. Hezbollah, a Shiite group inspired by the teachings and revolution of Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini, is created with the assistance of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps. The group is called Hezbollah–or "party of God"– after initially taking responsibility for attacks under the name "Islamic Jihad." (Not to be confused with the Palestinian terror organization Islamic Jihad.)

July 19, 1982: The president of the American University in Beirut, Davis S. Dodge, is kidnapped. Hezbollah is believed to be behind this and most of the other 30 Westerners kidnapped over the next ten years.

April 18, 1983: Hezbollah attacks the U.S. embassy in Beirut with a car bomb, killing 63 people, 17 of whom were American citizens.

Oct. 23, 1983: The group attacks U.S. Marine barracks with a truck bomb, killing 241 American military personnel stationed in Beirut as part of a peace-keeping force. A separate attack against the French military compound in Beirut kills 58.

Sept. 20, 1984: The group attacks the U.S. embassy annex in Beirut with a car bomb, killing 2 Americans and 22 others.

March 16, 1984: William F. Buckley, a CIA operative working at the U.S. embassy in Beirut, is kidnapped and later murdered.

April 12, 1984: Hezbollah attacks a restaurant near the U.S. Air Force Base in Torrejon, Spain. The bombing kills eighteen U.S. servicemen and injures 83 people.

Dec. 4, 1984: Hezbollah terrorists hijack a Kuwait Airlines plane. Four passengers are murdered, including two Americans.

Feb. 16, 1985: Hezbollah publicizes its manifesto. It notes that the group's struggle will continue until Israel is destroyed and rejects any cease-fire or peace treaty with Israel. The document also attacks the U.S. and France.

June 14, 1985: Hezbollah terrorists hijack TWA flight 847. The hijackers severely beat Passenger Robert Stethem, a U.S. Navy diver, before killing him and dumping his body onto the tarmac at the Beirut airport. Other passengers are held as hostages before being released on June 30.

Dec. 31, 1986: Under the alias Organization of the Oppressed on Earth, Hezbollah announces it had kidnapped and murdered three Lebanese Jews. The organization previously had taken responsibility for killing four other Jews since 1984.

Feb. 17, 1988: The group kidnaps Col. William Higgins, a U.S. Marine serving with a United Nations truce monitoring group in Lebanon, and later murders him.

Oct. 22, 1989: Members of the dissolved Lebanese parliament ratify the Taif Agreement. Although the agreement calls for the "disbanding of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias," Hezbollah remains active.

Feb. 16, 1992: Sayyad Hassan Nasrallah takes over Hezbollah after Israel kills the group’s leader, Abbas Musawi.

March 17, 1992: With the help of Iranian intelligence, Hezbollah bombs the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires, killing 29 and injuring over 200.

July 18, 1994: Hezbollah bombs the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires–again with Iranian help–killing 86 and injuring over 200.


Nov. 28, 1995: Hezbollah bombards towns in northern Israel with volleys of Katyusha rockets in one of the group's numerous attacks on Israeli civilians.

March 30, 1996: Hezbollah fires 28 Katyusha rockets into northern Israeli towns. A week later, the group fires 16 rockets, injuring 36 Israelis. Israel responds with a major offensive, known as the "Grapes of Wrath" operation, to stop Hezbollah rocket fire.

Aug. 19, 1997: Hezbollah opens fire on northern Israel with dozens of rockets in one of the group's numerous attacks on Israeli civilians.

October 1997: The United States lists Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.

Dec. 28, 1998: Hezbollah opens fire on northern Israel with dozens of rockets in one of the group's numerous attacks on Israeli civilians.
May 17, 1999: Hezbollah opens fire on northern Israel with dozens of rockets in one of the group's numerous attacks on Israeli civilians.



June 24, 1999: Hezbollah opens fire on northern Israel, killing 2.

May 23, 2000: Israel withdraws all troops from Lebanon after 18 years patrolling the "security zone," a strip of land in the south of the country. The security zone was set up to prevent attacks on northern Israel.

June 2000: United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan certifies Israel’s withdrawal from Lebanon. Shortly thereafter, the U.N. Security Council endorses Annan’s report. Hezbollah nonetheless alleges Israel occupies Lebanon, claiming the small Shebba Farms area Israel captured from Syria during the 1967 war as Lebanese territory.

Oct. 7, 2000: Hezbollah attacks an Israel military post and raids Israel, kidnapping three Israeli soldiers. The soldiers are later assumed dead. In mid-October, Hezbollah leader Nasrallah announces the group has also kidnapped an Israeli businessman. In 2004, Israel frees over 400 Arab prisoners in exchange for the business man and the bodies of the three soldiers.


March 1, 2001: The British government adds Hezbollah’s "military wing" to its list of outlawed terrorist organizations.

April 9, 2002: Hezbollah launches Katyushas into northern Israeli town. This assault comes amidst almost daily Hezbollah attacks against Israeli troops in Shebba farms.

Dec. 11, 2002: Canada lists Hezbollah as a terrorist organization. Huh?

Aug. 10, 2003: Hezbollah shells kills 16-year-old Israeli boy, wound others.

June 5, 2003: Australia lists Hezbollah’s "military wing" as a terrorist organization.

Sept. 2, 2004: United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559 calls for "the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias," a reference to Hezbollah.


December 2004: Both the United States and France ban Hezbollah’s satellite television network, Al Manar. A U.S. State Department spokesman notes the channel "preaches violence and hatred."

March 10, 2005: The European Parliament overwhelmingly passes a resolution stating: "Parliament considers that clear evidence exists of terrorist activities by Hezbollah. The (EU) Council should take all necessary steps to curtail them." The European Union nonetheless refrains from placing the group on its list of terror organizations.

July 12, 2006: Hezbollah attacks Israel with Katyushas, crosses the border and kidnaps two Israeli soldiers. Three Israeli soldiers are killed in the initial attack. Five more soldiers are killed as Israel launches operation to rescue the soldiers and push Hezbollah from its border. Hezbollah launches rockets into towns across northern Israel

Don't forget to fill in between the lines of your beloved U.S. atrocities!

Do your own work.

Well wait, I'll list a few I guess..

WWI
1.8 million germans and an odd assortment of Austro - Hungarians

WWII
A good portion of 8.1 million Germans(again!) Because of appeasement crowd weenies

Most of 1.75 million fanatical Japanese samurai wanna-be's And don't give me the Atom bomb atrocity garbage, a lot more Japanese would have died in an invasion.

Those atrocities or do you only want Muslim figures?

But I suppose none of this matters anymore. We've killed civilians so our credibility is crap now. Caleb-Dain Matton, heres a newsflash, the phenomenon of civilians dying in war didnt start with the invention of Cable TV and the internet. And there has never been a war or a combatant on either side of said war, that didnt commit "atrocities". I have to ask you though, why such staunch support for a group like Hezbollah? What traits do they possess that you find admirable? I find it funny that you went off on a tangent about U.S. atrocities when I listed Hezbollah's misbehavior. Was it my little American flag that set you off? Just come out and say you hate the U.S. don't beat around the Bush..

#Juan

I certainly hope it doesn't go on forever over there, and no I don't think the side who gets the last hit in, wins. I read an interesting article by an Egyptian blogger who posed a question to his co-workers...

http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/08/01...ble-questions/

I had an interesting conversation yesterday with a co-worker, on the concept of the disporportinate Israeli attacks on Lebanon compared to Hezbollah attacks. He pointed to me his dismay at Hezbollah's rockets ineffeciency at hitting targets. He said "If you noticed, they bomb each other almost equally in amounts of missiles shot, but 90% of Hezbollah's rockets miss or hit nothing, while all of Israel's rockets hit something. If Hezbollah had better rockets, the civillian death toll on the Israeli side would be huge, and they would be really hurting by now."

Impressed by this point of view that I haven't considerd before, I asked him what he would've thought, if a Hezbollah rocket had attacked a building in Israel, killing 55 civillians, of which 30 were children. He responded immeidtely "I would've thought it was great! A7san!".

So I repeated the same question to 8 other co-workers, and the responses so far have been as follows: 7 said they would celebrate, and 2 said that such an attack would've been bad, but justified! Yeah! Not a single person said that the death of any civllian, on either side, is an equal tragedy. Civillians dead on our side is tragic, civillian deaths on their side cause for celebration. And if you think I am being unfair or demonizing arabs or whatever, do me a favor and try it at your work place and/or with members of your family. Conduct this little social experiment and see for yourself. The results are very interesting.

This begs another question: If we were the ones who had the superior military machine, would we have shown them any mercy, or any regard to their civillian casualties? Would we have hesitated to wipe them all out? Armed forces, civillians, whatever? Would any of us have felt bad about it at all? Or would we be filled with the feelings of Pride, honor and dignity that we keep talking about day and night?

I am just wondering!

What do you think?


This article gives me some hope because your average everyday Arab is thinking about these things and hopefully one day they will become fed up with all the death and destruction and police their own fanatics. I still stick to my belief though that if Islamic fanatics stopped fighting today, there would be peace in Lebanon and Israel. If Israel stopped fighting, there would be "pieces" of Israelis floting in the Mediterranean. Did you hear the Iranian President's solution for peace today? Kind of sums up radical Islams roadmap to peace.
 
elevennevele
#23
No side in this conflict is without a record of war crimes.

It’s ironic you should reference WW2. Israeli atrocity does not support them being on the ‘just’ side as far as a WW2 comparision. In fact WW2 should make us even more critical of what the state of Israel has done as far as it’s military actions and interrogation techniques by comparison.


Quote:

"The Insane Brutality of the State of Israel"

Atrocities in the Promised Land

By KATHLEEN CHRISTISON
former CIA analyst

A government that imprisons a 15-year-old girl -- one of several hundred children in Israeli detention -- for the crime of pushing and running away from a male soldier trying to do a body search as she entered a mosque is not a government with any moral bearings. (This story, not the kind that ever appears in the U.S. media, was reported in the London Sunday Times. The girl was shot three times as she ran away and was convicted to 18 months in prison after she came out of a coma.)

 
#juan
No Party Affiliation
#24
thomaska

I've done a lot of reading on this topic ------ that doesn't make me an expert by any stretch but you know, I used to support Israel a hundred percent. I'm a fair bit older than most on these forums and that doesn't qualify me for any special badge either. It just seems sometimes like the Israelis stayed inside their original borders for about a week and a half. Israel's first prime minister, David Ben Gurion made it clear that he wanted all of Palestine and so did Golda Mier. The Jews were always better armed than the Palestinian Arabs and when Menachim Begin (sp) was leading the Irgun,(sp) it was a favourite trick to drive the Arabs out of their homes and then burn the houses to the ground so the Arabs couldn't come back. Begin did this to entire villages and that is how they filled the refugee camps. After over fifty years the struggle seems bloody pointless unless you're a Palestinian. I find it difficult to work up much sympathy for the Israelis in this new attack.
 
para-dice
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by JonB2004

[...]
The IDF is not a bunch of murderers, Jersay. The IDF accidentilly killed those Canadians. It wasn't their fault. It's Hezbollah's fault because Israel wouldn't be bombing Lebanon if Hezbollah wouldn't of kidnapped their soldiers. [...]

Abducting military personel is a valid military objective. In countless past cases they have simply swapped prisonrers. It's the unwritten rules of this "game". But this is all irrelevant, as Ha'aretz (Israel's major newpaper) reported the invasion was planned over a year ago, the IDF just waited for a reason.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...21/MIDEAST.TMP

Hezbollah was not "hiding" around the UNIFIL outpost, besides after the artillery rounds, and the constant UN complaints - none of which mentioned any Hezbollah fighters, it was a precision IAF F16 bomb which wiped out the UN outpost. There is no doubt it was an intentional strike. The IDF has done this numerous times in the past, the last time over 100 civi's were killed.

Neither was Hezb hiding around civi's at Qana:
Quote:

It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.

The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745185.html

Hezbollah is succesful because they keep their identities hidden from civi's, whom they regard rightly as a security threat:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20.../index_np.html
As such the IDF doesn't know how may they are, what weapons they have etc.

I would suggest these erroneous reports of Hezb "hiding" around civi's has more to do with another Israeli PR campaign to blame others for its mis-deeds.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#26
Quote:

Abducting military personel is a valid military objective. In countless past cases they have simply swapped prisonrers. It's the unwritten rules of this "game". But this is all irrelevant, as Ha'aretz (Israel's major newpaper) reported the invasion was planned over a year ago, the IDF just waited for a reason.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...21/MIDEAST.TMP

Abducting military personel may be a valid military objective, but it is also an act of war. Destroying military targets despite the civilian population is also a valid military objective.

OF COURSE the invasion was planned over a year ago..........that is what military planners do is prepare for whatever eventuality there is..........especially when your enemy is close, constantly testing you with minor attacks, and gaining in power by the day. The Israelis would have been very negligent NOT to have planned this a year ago.

Quote:

Hezbollah was not "hiding" around the UNIFIL outpost, besides after the artillery rounds, and the constant UN complaints - none of which mentioned any Hezbollah fighters, it was a precision IAF F16 bomb which wiped out the UN outpost. There is no doubt it was an intentional strike. The IDF has done this numerous times in the past, the last time over 100 civi's were killed.

BALONEY! The day before the UN reported Hezbollah activity around their position. The death of UN "peacekeepers" is fully the responsibility of the UN bureaucrats in New York......arseholes that keep "peacekeepers" in place long after there is no peace to keep.

Quote:

Neither was Hezb hiding around civi's at Qana:

Quote:

It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.

The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745185.html

Hezbollah is succesful because they keep their identities hidden from civi's, whom they regard rightly as a security threat:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20.../index_np.html
As such the IDF doesn't know how may they are, what weapons they have etc.

I would suggest these erroneous reports of Hezb "hiding" around civi's has more to do with another Israeli PR campaign to blame others for its mis-deeds.

[/quote]
Oh SPARE ME!

Hezbollah lives, works, and fights from among the civilian population. If not, the Israelis would have managed to kill off every last one DAYS ago.......without civilian casualties. You should quit being obtuse......do you think the Israelis targetcivilians for fun? How stupid would that be? A waste of ammo at best, and handing the enemy a propaganda blitz throughout the world at worst.
 
para-dice
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

[...]
The difference is this.....The Palestinians can not claim self-defense because if they stooped fighting they would be left in peace.

O rly? So the Pals should just "bend over" while the Israeli's steal thier lands? Is that how it works? It's the military occupation and Israeli land thefts which creates resistance to Zionism, not the other way around.

And the Israeli's have never offered a decent peace plan to the Pals, Barak's most generous peace offer:
Former Israeli Foreign Minister SHLOMO BEN-AMI
Quote:

" ... if I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David."
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/art...p?pg=11&ar=140

Certainly the State of Israeli with its hired guns in the PR industry would like to argue that the military occupation is necessary to prevent terrorist attacks. This is patently false. Any people under military occupation would resist having their lands stolen. And let's not mince words, the Israeli's are stealing Pal lands, just like they stole the Golan Heights/Shebaa Farms from Lebanon. Yes the UN says Syria lost it as a spoil of war, yet the Arabs in this area payed taxes to Lebanon and consider themselves Lebanese. The UN dropped the ball on this one. We can thank the US's arm twisting for that.
Quote:

"Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] 'They didn't even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.

And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.'"
The New York Times, May 11, 1997


This video explains all, it's one of Googles most watched videos:
Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...23714384920696

Please vote on it!

What do ya'all think of the vid? Pretty sad isn't it? Kinda surprising the structural bias of the media isn't it?
 
BitWhys
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

The day before the UN reported Hezbollah activity around their position.

link?
 
Colpy
Conservative
#29
[
Quote:

quote="para-dice"]

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

[...]
The difference is this.....The Palestinians can not claim self-defense because if they stooped fighting they would be left in peace.

O rly? So the Pals should just "bend over" while the Israeli's steal thier lands? Is that how it works? It's the military occupation and Israeli land thefts which creates resistance to Zionism, not the other way around.

You missed, i assume, Israel's total withdrawal from Lebanon SIX YEARS AGO, leaving the Lebanese with absolutely no valid territorial aspiration, and the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, forcing settlers out along with the occuppying forces, to say nothing of the fact you have obviously missed the fact the Israelis planned a significant (but not total) withdrawal from the West Bank. You missed the fact, obviously, that Israeli withdrawals from Gaza and Lebanon simply allowed the enemies of Israel to use both areas as staging spots for attacks into Israel. You also seem to have missed the statements of position of both Hamas and Hezbollah, both of which call for the total elimination of Israel......

Quote:

And the Israeli's have never offered a decent peace plan to the Pals, Barak's most generous peace offer:
Former Israeli Foreign Minister SHLOMO BEN-AMI

Quote:

" ... if I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David."
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/art...p?pg=11&ar=140

Certainly the State of Israeli with its hired guns in the PR industry would like to argue that the military occupation is necessary to prevent terrorist attacks. This is patently false. Any people under military occupation would resist having their lands stolen. And let's not mince words, the Israeli's are stealing Pal lands, just like they stole the Golan Heights/Shebaa Farms from Lebanon. Yes the UN says Syria lost it as a spoil of war, yet the Arabs in this area payed taxes to Lebanon and consider themselves Lebanese. The UN dropped the ball on this one. We can thank the US's arm twisting for that.

BALONEY.

I might even grant that Barak's offer was not valid......not having debunked Juan's map on another thread........But the Shebaa Farms are a tiny area granted to Lebanon by Syria AFTER the Israelis allowed the UN to draw their northern border, Syria's ONLY interest was to give Hezbollah something to fight over. As far as I'm concerned, Israel should annex both the Farms and the Golan Heights. The Heights are a VERY important strategic area.
[
 
Colpy
Conservative
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

The day before the UN reported Hezbollah activity around their position.

link?

Damn you, you always want links

Trust me.
 

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