"The Western BlocK Party!!!"


Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#1
The Western BlocK Party . It doesn't exist (except as a concept) at this point. It would NOT
be a separist entity, but one with a mandate of supporting Western Interests. Period! Candidates
would run in BC,AB,SK, & MB....that's it. Much like the Bloc's focus is only about Quebec, the
BlocK's interest would be to promote and support the interests of Western Canada. That's it.
It would not even be interested in ever having a PM, as that would not be fair to ALL of Canada.
It would not be in favour of separating from Canada, as that may not be in Western Canada's
best interests.



The West has (sort of, in a very limp sort of way) only recently had a voice in Ottawa. This
will be removed (in all likelihood) in the next few days or weeks or months...

The Reform Party movement years ago came out of Western Canada and eventually became
the current Conservative Party. Once it became a Federal Power though, it immediately
flipped to please the centre of Canada where vote rich Ontario & Quebec lay. Brian Mulrony
made all kinds of promises to the West which were immediately forgotten when he achieved
the office of the PM, catering to the land with the most voters. Stephen Harper made all kinds
of promises to the West which were immediately reneged upon once he reached the office of
the PM. One of which cost Saskatchewan alone $800,000,000.00 only a few years ago...yet
Saskatchewan & Alberta are still oceans of blue as the Conservatives (seven weeks ago) were
still the lesser of all evils in the eyes of Western Canadian interests. Enough.

Western Canada has been treated as a colony of Ottawa's forever but that needs to end. Now.
As an Example, lets use the Canadian Wheat Board. If you where a Farmer out on the Prairies,
you HAD TO deal your wheat through the Canadian Wheat Board under penalty of Law. If
you were a Wheat Farmer in Ontario, you didn't have to. Hmmm.....yeah. Times change...
Attitudes have changed. Economies have changed. The political landscape has changed. The
Majority Government in Canada is going to become a (more or less) rare thing where it might
be seen once every twenty-five years or so...and when it happens, the interests of the West
will be sacrificed as they always have been.



In a minority Government coalition environment, with Western Canada being a sea of blue,
Western interests will be shelved....again...unless an entity is created to protect the interests
of Western Canadians as the current system (and Parties) doesn't work.

A Political Party...a Western BlocK Party...with Western Canada's best interests as its sole
mandate is a concept that is long overdue, and will be needed in a continual minority coalition
Federal Government situation in current and future Canadian Politics. Western Canadians put
their Money where their Mouth is. It's no coincidence that a political sea of blue in the West
equals the Conservative Party of Canada having a fat warchest, as opposed to the Liberal &
Bloc Parties only surviving due to the Public Tax Tit. The NDP didn't step forward claiming
not to want or need YOUR tax dollars for every vote the NDP receives. The Green Party
looks like it had a Great start, but will be loosing Elizabeth May (& six members of the Bloc)
to the UN-elected Canadian Senate where she'll sit until the age of seventy-five. Nice...not.



So.... The Western BlocK Party ....will it fly?
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#2
Sort of like the Reform Party??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Sort of like the Reform Party??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Not really....actually, not at all. The Reform Party became a Federal Party and thus it had
to cater to Quebec and Ontario. The " Western BlocK Party " would focus on it's mandate.

The way I picture things, and following the " Western BlocK Party " mandate, by running
candidates ONLY in the four Western Provinces (BC,AB,SK,MB) will ensure that it will
never have a majority in Parliament (Like the Bloc), but will represent Western Canadian
interests in this manner. There will NEVER be a " Western BlocK Party " PM.
BC = 36 Seats Maximum
AB = 28 Seats Maximum
SK = 14 Seats Maximum
MB= 14 Seats Maximum
so......92 Seats Maximum in any given term of Parliament. So maybe the BlocK only has 50
or so seats one time, next time maybe 80, and next time maybe 40....it's still enough to have
the Western voice heard. Veto power on coalitions if need be, on a vote by vote basis...
The " Western BlocK Party " is not a separatist Federal Party what so ever.

So....which one of you smart folks (in BC,AB,SK,MB) would like to Lead this BlocK ?
 
scratch
#4
Ron,

You are one smart guy. Yet with so much being said (with all due consideration to you) about the Bloc and what everyone `seems` to think it will gain from a coalition is pure hog-wash.
Ron in fact what you are (in sort of a covert way) promoting is `separatism`to a degree which is a negative thing for all of Canada.
Your point is well made and do-able.

Unfortunately, the separation issue is dead. This country could lead the world in all kinds of ways and does already in some areas of medicine and technology.

This misunderstood concept of Quebec separation has to stop (besides they couldn't afford to do it as per international and UN rules anyway) but there are those who feel that Quebec is the ultimate source of evil in this country and that simply is not true. What you have faced for generations Quebec has faced since 1848.

TRUE SEPARATISTS need only two things to allow their goal to achieve fruition: control of communications and waterways and THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Geographically Canada is not very well set up for rep by pop and that's why elections are decided by Ontario and Quebec.

I just cannot see this kind of thing happening in the West, Quebec or in Atlantic Canada as someone mentioned this A.M.

sincere regards,
scratch
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#5
Gotta run...(did that post up on my coffee break)...I'll come back to this in a couple
of hours Scratch....
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#6
That's how you'll increase and promote western alienation. Uncle sam can't wait.
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#7
Ron, I thought Conservative party was the Western Bloc party.

I agree with Scratch, Quebecers talk to separating, but I don’t see them separating, at least for another generation. They use separatism as a talking point. Even as a talking point, it has been singularly unsuccessful in recent times.

Indeed, the Bloc was on its way out in the last election, until Harper opened his trap too wide in this election campaign and gave the Bloc an opportunity to launch a comeback. If Conservatives had got more seats in Quebec and got their majority (as historically they would be expected to do, after four Liberal wins in a row), the Bloc would be on its way to extinction.

But at a time when political winds were blowing in favour of Conservatives (after four elections wins in a row, I would think Canadians would give Conservatives at least two majority terms), the Conservatives did not choose a skilled, astute, strong leader. Rather, they chose a petulant, weak, partisan, angry politician as their leader.

That is why rather than get a majority and wipe the Bloc off he face of the map, he has given the Bloc a new lease on life. If the coalition is successful in forming the government, Bloc will have considerable influence on national policy and it will all be Harper’s fault. If he had acted like a statesman, acted as a Prime Minister rather than an angry, petulant, partisan politician, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

That's how you'll increase and promote western alienation. Uncle sam can't wait.

Quite right, Uncle Sam has his eyes set on Alberta. I imagine Alberta’s oil and oil sands resources is positively making Uncle Sam drool (I don’t see him being interested in BC, SK or MB).

Forget about Québec separation, if Alberta ever separates from Canada, it will be swallowed up by USA in a short order.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter View Post

Quite right, Uncle Sam has his eyes set on Alberta. I imagine Alberta’s oil and oil sands resources is positively making Uncle Sam drool (I don’t see him being interested in BC, SK or MB).

Forget about Québec separation, if Alberta ever separates from Canada, it will be swallowed up by USA in a short order.

Wouldn't the U.S. have to have Alberta's permission or am I naive?
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Wouldn't the U.S. have to have Alberta's permission or am I naive?

JLM, a couple of years after Alberta separates, USA will make Alberta ‘an offer it cannot refuse’.

It will be made clear to Alberta in no uncertain terms that its future lies with USA. Incentives will be offered for it to join USA. At the same time, there will be plenty of stick as well.

There may be military maneuvers on Alberta - USA border. Alberta oil will be banned because of ‘environmental’ reasons. Alberta citizens will be required to have visas to enter USA due to ‘heightened threat of terrorism’.

Inevitably, there will be a referendum and in it, Albertans will vote to join USA, with a gun held to their head.
 
scratch
#11
Joe,
With all due consideration.

The Alberta situation would have to go through a referendum or plebiscite and then be reviewed by a Federal parliamentary committee before any action could be taken.

rgs
scratch
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#12
OK....the Bloc Quebecois is a separatist party (that actually exists) with a mandate of separation
of Quebec from Canada but it's gains from a coalition is pure hog-wash, and thus nothing to
worry about.

The " Western BlocK Party " (that is just an idea, and doesn't actually exist at this point) is (with
all due consideration to you my Friend; in a covert sort of a way) promoting 'separatism' to a
degree which is a negative thing for all of Canada (?) with a mandate of supporting Western
interests?

Wouldn't the same UN rules that prevent Quebec (who someday may actually WANT to) separating
from Canada also prevent the " Western BlocK Party " (who's mandate isn't separation at all) from
separating from Canada with the four Western Provinces also?

Geographically Canada is not very well set up for rep by pop and that's why elections are decided by
Ontario and Quebec....and that's all and good....but ensuring that the West has a real voice in the next
century like it hasn't had for the last century would be a bad thing?

You may not be able to see this kind of thing happening in the West (or Quebec or in Atlantic Canada
as someone mentioned this A.M.) but out of the West came the Reform Party that ate the remnants of
the PC's...and in Quebec grew the Bloc Quebecois from a kernel of disgruntled PC's....

As far as promoting Western alienation, it's already real and here and doesn't need any promotion what
so ever (as in NEP, Canadian Wheat Board, the threat of the Green Shift that we fought down, this Coalition
of the Billing with three leaders all born in Quebec, and so on and so forth). A Political Party set up to avoid
being put in the position of being (or feeling, or imagining that you are) alienated with a mandate against
separation and supporting Western interests would alleviate Western alienation, would it not?

The Conservative Party isn't a Western Bloc Party now any more than the Liberals or the Greens or
the NDP are Western Bloc Parties. They're Federal, and have to cater to the greatest number of votes
at the expence of Western Canada. The Bloc Quebecois exists to promote Quebecs interests, giving it
a voice beyond just having 25% of the entire population of the country inside its borders.

The " Western BlocK Party " would exist to promote the West's interests, giving a voice beyond
Alberta's 28 seats individually, or Manitoba's 14 seats individually, etc... A voice, not separation. What's
good for those that claim to want to separate can't be good for those that claim not to want to separate?
Gotta run again. Back in a couple of hours...
 
scratch
#13
Ron,
I see your point but now we run into semantics. Your idea for a party that truly represents the western provinces is very good.
Yet you are not espousing actual separation to an independent country as some Quebecers are.
Your Block is a copy in essence of the Quebec Bloc but without having to declare separation and all the work required to attain that.
Quebec would have to have armed forces i.e., army, navy, air force and coast guard as well as an accepted flag that would be recognized worldwide and would have to have a UN representative and embassies and consulates around the globe. Quebec cannot afford that and really does not want that.
What they want is what you want, your fair say in government, fair regional payments and more provincial control over things the Feds have their fingers in.

Really not much difference.

An excellent treatise Ron.

regards,
scratch
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by scratch View Post

Joe,
With all due consideration.

The Alberta situation would have to go through a referendum or plebiscite and then be reviewed by a Federal parliamentary committee before any action could be taken.

rgs
scratch

I know that, Scratch, I was commenting on a hypothetical situation where Alberta has separated.

In canada.com forum, we had extensive discussion about Alberta separation. In that I described in detail how messy and bloody (in a figurative sense) Alberta separation would be.

So I quite agree, I think Alberta separating is even less likely than Quebec separating. I was merely commenting on a hypothetical case. We Canadians like to talk about separation, but it never happens.
Last edited by SirJosephPorter; Dec 2nd, 2008 at 07:39 PM..
 
scratch
#15
Well Joe,
I'll tell you if you discussed the hypothetical separation of Alberta then you can understand as a Quebecer how tired I am about reading about a non-existent in Quebec.

regs
scratch
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by scratch View Post

Ron,
I see your point but now we run into semantics. Your idea for a party that truly represents the western provinces is very good.
Yet you are not espousing actual separation to an independent country as some Quebecers are.
Your Block is a copy in essence of the Quebec Bloc but without having to declare separation and all the work required to attain that.
Quebec would have to have armed forces i.e., army, navy, air force and coast guard as well as an accepted flag that would be recognized worldwide and would have to have a UN representative and embassies and consulates around the globe. Quebec cannot afford that and really does not want that.
What they want is what you want, your fair say in government, fair regional payments and more provincial control over things the Feds have their fingers in.

Really not much difference.

An excellent treatise Ron.

regards,
scratch


Scratch, Thank You! Just looking for Fairness, instead of false promises as we've
usually had to live with for the last handfull of generations. Seperation would be
completely against the " Western BlocK Party " mandate. It might even lead by
example (for the Bloc) which might even lead to even less seperation talk from
any region of our country.
 
scratch
#17
Hey Ron,

Just wanted to make sure that we were on the same page.

sincere regards,
scratch
 
Risus
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter View Post

Ron, I thought Conservative party was the Western Bloc party.

I agree with Scratch, Quebecers talk to separating, but I don’t see them separating, at least for another generation. They use separatism as a talking point. Even as a talking point, it has been singularly unsuccessful in recent times.

Indeed, the Bloc was on its way out in the last election, until Harper opened his trap too wide in this election campaign and gave the Bloc an opportunity to launch a comeback. If Conservatives had got more seats in Quebec and got their majority (as historically they would be expected to do, after four Liberal wins in a row), the Bloc would be on its way to extinction.

But at a time when political winds were blowing in favour of Conservatives (after four elections wins in a row, I would think Canadians would give Conservatives at least two majority terms), the Conservatives did not choose a skilled, astute, strong leader. Rather, they chose a petulant, weak, partisan, angry politician as their leader.

That is why rather than get a majority and wipe the Bloc off he face of the map, he has given the Bloc a new lease on life. If the coalition is successful in forming the government, Bloc will have considerable influence on national policy and it will all be Harper’s fault. If he had acted like a statesman, acted as a Prime Minister rather than an angry, petulant, partisan politician, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

LOL, if the three scrooges didn't act like children, we wouldn't be in this mess...
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter View Post

JLM, a couple of years after Alberta separates, USA will make Alberta ‘an offer it cannot refuse’.

It will be made clear to Alberta in no uncertain terms that its future lies with USA. Incentives will be offered for it to join USA. At the same time, there will be plenty of stick as well.

There may be military maneuvers on Alberta - USA border. Alberta oil will be banned because of ‘environmental’ reasons. Alberta citizens will be required to have visas to enter USA due to ‘heightened threat of terrorism’.

Inevitably, there will be a referendum and in it, Albertans will vote to join USA, with a gun held to their head.


SirJoe, I'm not talking about separation for Alberta or anyone else with a " Western BlocK Party . "
This could very well be a way to remove the feeling of alienation, which would lessen the chances of
anyone wanting to separate by giving the BlocK (of BC,AB,SK,MB) a voice not to be dismissed
due to being a number of comparatively small pockets of votes split over as many Parties as there
are. The " Western BlocK Party " would just be another choice, like any other Party, but with the
express mandate of Non-Separation and promoting Western Canadian interests.

If the USA (or anyone else for that matter) wants to point a gun at Alberta's (or any other Canadian
Provinces) head....a united Canada can tell them to go p*ss up a rope!!!
 
scratch
#20
Well expressed Ron.

regs
scratch
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#21
SirJoe, I'm not talking about separation for Alberta or anyone else with a " Western BlocK Party . "

That’s OK, Ron, I was responding to JLM’s query (where he said that Alberta will have something to say when it came to joining USA).

If the USA (or anyone else for that matter) wants to point a gun at Alberta's (or any other Canadian
Provinces) head....a united Canada can tell them to go p*ss up a rope!!!


Sure a united Canada can (and I don't think USA will even try, with United Canada), but I don’t think an independent Alberta would be in a position to do that.
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#22
If you're going to go that far as to make your own political party that represents an entire area of the country in order to get what they want from the rest of the country and government, then why don't you just go the extra step and seperate and deal with your own business?

Why don't both the west and Quebec seperate? That's the objective isn't it?

If not, then why else stay in the country other then to mooch of the rest of the country in whatever you can't get on your own?

You know what's going to happen? This was going to happen eventually ever since Quebec got their own political party. Other provinces and territories would make their own as well and then you have all these areas of the country, with parties that specialize in their areas.......

...... fighting exactly the same way as they are all fighting right now. And then the breakup into tiny countries.

Game Over either way.

Which is, once again, why I am not planning on running or getting involved in the current political spectrum, because it's just simply screwed.

It is a good idea though, I do think it is quite interesting.
 
scratch
#23
Prax,
All due respect....

You knock for 3/4 of a page and then you approve.

Gotta love ya!

regs
scratch
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by scratch View Post

Prax,
All due respect....

You knock for 3/4 of a page and then you approve.

Gotta love ya!

regs
scratch

Well, I'm just saying it's a good idea.... a very good one, but it needs a bit of an adjustment in order to make it actually survive more then 3 years.
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

I just wanted to point this out as well. If you have all those provinces under the one bloc, and then you have Quebec's bloc..... you know the Maritimes would be doing the exact same thing and have their own Bloc...... then you have the Territories.

All you got left is Ontario isolated with no other Provinces for their Bloc..... Sure Quebec is just one Province, but they got character and an identity

Eventually if conflict occurs like today in a group of parties setup like this..... that would be the very first step into all of the country ripping apart and pulling a USSR.

Ontario would be Russia and the Maritimes Georgia, coming in with the military to raid your Tim Horton's that we lost in the division...... then Ontario would come back and take our fish.

Bast'ards! Yar
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius View Post

If you're going to go that far as to make your own political party that represents an entire area of the country in order to get what they want from the rest of the country and government, then why don't you just go the extra step and seperate and deal with your own business?

Why don't both the west and Quebec seperate? That's the objective isn't it?

If not, then why else stay in the country other then to mooch of the rest of the country in whatever you can't get on your own?

You know what's going to happen? This was going to happen eventually ever since Quebec got their own political party. Other provinces and territories would make their own as well and then you have all these areas of the country, with parties that specialize in their areas.......

...... fighting exactly the same way as they are all fighting right now. And then the breakup into tiny countries.

Game Over either way.

Which is, once again, why I am not planning on running or getting involved in the current political spectrum, because it's just simply screwed.

It is a good idea though, I do think it is quite interesting.


Prax....You'd be perfect as the Leader of the nonexistent " Western BlocK Party ." In it's
currently imaginary bylaws, it'll have to note specifically that the Leader (unlike the Prez of
the U.S.) doesn't have to be born in a Province in the BlocK...He/She just has to commit to
the Mandate of Non-Separation and to promoting Western Canadian interests. With your
intelligence, integrity, and skepticism, you'd be Great!!! Being jaded to the current
political spectrum could be an asset for a Leader of a new Party.

Once you have the ability to ensure that the " Western BlocK Party " gets a fair shake, the
same Party can be used can use its influence to help ensure that others get a fair shake to by
injecting that lacking commodity of Common Sense into Parliament.
 
Vanni Fucci
Free Thinker
#27
Sure, and why not an Atlantic Party, and a Northern Territorial Party and Northern Ontario Party and GTA Party and where the hell does this all end exactly?

BQ is able to get the support that they do because they are unique for now...if every geographic area or special interest group started their own party, then all of them would fade into irrelevancy...

What would happen is the same thing that happened with the Reform, Alliance and PC parties merging into one, with the weaker PC party being muscled out by the Reformers...except it would be the extremists on left, right and center...

Then we'd have scads of uber-extreme parties kicking the living **** out of each other for fun and profit...

Not that it would be a bad thing...might be as good as UFC without the $40 pricetag...
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni Fucci View Post

Sure, and why not an Atlantic Party, and a Northern Territorial Party and Northern Ontario Party and GTA Party and where the hell does this all end exactly?

BQ is able to get the support that they do because they are unique for now...if every geographic area or special interest group started their own party, then all of them would fade into irrelevancy...

What would happen is the same thing that happened with the Reform, Alliance and PC parties merging into one, with the weaker PC party being muscled out by the Reformers...except it would be the extremists on left, right and center...

Then we'd have scads of uber-extreme parties kicking the living **** out of each other for fun and profit...

Not that it would be a bad thing...might be as good as UFC without the $40 pricetag...


Not to sound too dense, but how is BQ any more or less unique than the Atlantic Party
would be? The current system doesn't work. This is just one idea. Please pick it apart and
come up with something different & better from the pieces...or something completely
different all together that works for everyone. I've been just winging it here...
 
Lester
No Party Affiliation
#29
It's everyone for themselves- Apparently Stelmach has got a plan to put up a firewall around Alberta, he's holding his cards close to his chest for now, until he finds out who's standing after the smoke clears.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius View Post

I just wanted to point this out as well. If you have all those provinces under the one bloc, and then you have Quebec's bloc..... you know the Maritimes would be doing the exact same thing and have their own Bloc...... then you have the Territories.

All you got left is Ontario isolated with no other Provinces for their Bloc..... Sure Quebec is just one Province, but they got character and an identity

Bast'ards! Yar


So.....Western Canada have character of an identity? What about the non-existing Atlantic Party?
Yar Indeed!!!
 

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